Xbox One

Discussion in 'The Living Room' started by Delicious Dave, May 21, 2013.

  1. MKH

    MKH Bat of Gotham LPA Super VIP

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    I'm not saying anyone is wrong for liking the used game market, I understand it has its perks, and I understand that not everyone is a millionaire who will buy any and every game brand new on release day - I don't do that either.

    I was just stating my personal opinion on the matter is all, and that I don't like the market because there are four parties involved in the creation and selling of games: publishers, retailers, consumers, and the most important one (yes, more so than the consumers) that everyone forgets, the developers. The used game market works for everyone except the developers. I'm not saying I speak for all developers or that every developer cares about it, but there are definitely developers who would rather they get the proper amount of food on their table for their work, so they can continue to make more games.

    Stressing over not being able to buy brand new, full-priced games at launch implicates there are better things to be stressing about.
     
  2. Jesse

    Jesse Out of the abyss. LPA Über VIP

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    Some think that publishers/developers should be paid after the initial sale and for some reason just ignore that no other physical media has such a restriction and then label the people who defend consumer rights and the first sale doctrine as greedy.

    How about publishers pay devs a fair amount after the game sales, or I dunno stop spending so damn much on making games that do not really benefit their players, or get this, make the games cheaper, so more people will buy them and raise your profits but no, no, people are greedy because they see how it's unfair to get paid in multiples for one disc.

    Hell, I bet stores want money for seeds that grow and each fruit and vegetable sold that come from them. I mean, it makes sense, yeah? Gotta get that money again and again for selling something once.

    I want devs and publishers to make profit, I don't want them to fuck over consumers. It's that simple.
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2013
  3. Brandon

    Brandon I was Ree's 100th follower on Twitter.

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  4. sotrix

    sotrix @lplive

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  5. MKH

    MKH Bat of Gotham LPA Super VIP

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  6. Kæton

    Kæton is Keaton LPA Über VIP

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    Frankly, I believe Microsoft and their supporters have no one to blame for this entire fiasco but Microsoft. And Don Mattrick. Seriously, that dude did so much damage at E3...

    It's cool that Xbox One wants to "innovate" but if part of that "innovation" means removing aspects that you KNOW consumers are going to feel entitled to (you know, as the consumer), you better not only have some solid reasoning to back it up, but you better be damn well ready to explain it to the fullest. Microsoft failed to do this and that's on them, not the consumers. The consumers voted with their wallets and said, "Hey, we don't support what you said your product does, and so we're going with the competitor", and they are well within their rights to do so. No amount of lament or parody is going to change that.
     
  7. RazorEye

    RazorEye The light on the horizon...

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    Wow, after reading that article I sorta feel sorry for hating on Microsoft, but in compliment to what Kaeton said, Microsoft should've explained it more clearly why they were doing all this instead of just announcing it and hoping people would like it. I guess Microsoft were, in the end, the ones trying the hardest to bring the industry forward, but I still think they've got their shoes tied together.
     
  8. MKH

    MKH Bat of Gotham LPA Super VIP

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    Microsoft didn't announce anything new that hasn't been done before, as Bridgman points out about Steam - I've yet to meet a single person on the internet or in real life that complains about what Valve does with Steam.

    Always-on is how the Xbox One would have dealt with Steam's logging in and out of simultaneous account logins, and having to stay offline. Also, the argument that Steam doesn't require always-on is so moronically stupid, it's astounding - why does it matter if it's always on or not if you need internet, and clearly have it, to download the game in the first place?

    Microsoft didn't need to do any explaining because they didn't do anything new - they just brought it to consoles, which is new. The PS4 is an upgraded PS3, simple as that. The Xbox One WAS a new console that aimed to do something different. Now it's an upgraded 360, just as Bridgman put it. This was not on Microsoft in the least, it was on these wonderfully beloved customers who read they could no longer play a game for how long they wanted to and then sell it back like this is fucking Walmart, and they backlashed.

    Hand these hard-working people free games and sales and they'll boast about how great your service is - aim for the future and have a company that ADMITS their new product isn't for everyone, instead of saying everyone should be able to get it, and your hard work means nothing to those very same people.
     
  9. Kæton

    Kæton is Keaton LPA Über VIP

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    To someone out of the loop, the Xbox One's policies sound fishy. You have to consider that not ALL console owners are reading the game blogs so whether or not a similar model already exists doesn't excuse Microsoft from being abundantly clear about their intentions from the very start. That's their responsibility.

    The reason people praise Valve and Steam are because of the benefits as a consumer and their rather noninvasive base DRM. Valve has a solid reputation in that department, and they earned that through action, not talk. Also, PC gaming as a whole is not strictly based on the Steam model and there are often multiple ways to purchase a game. Some of which are completely DRM FREE. The same cannot be said about the Xbox Live marketplace and Xbox One digital products. At least, not as far as Microsoft's made apparent.

    Online is always tricky. Going back to Steam, it matters because you can still play Steam games offline after installation (single player at least) whereas the Xbox One wouldn't after 24 hours or an hour depending on circumstance. It's the matter of choice that makes a difference. With "always online", you're playing with fire. Simple as that. Both Blizzard (Diablo III) and EA (Sim City) thought they could handle server loads and avoid the downfalls of an always-connected experience, including the single player experience. They failed, and whether or not Microsoft would have followed suit is moot. The proof was in the pudding and an entire piece of hardware based on something that has already failed tremendously TWICE is going to warrant major speculation.

    In other words, lack of experience, knowledge and confidence were areas Microsoft needed to reassure their consumers they were taking seriously. None of that came through the PR spins. In fact, just the opposite was pretty apparent at E3 (again, thanks to the likes of Don Mattrick). Microsoft should have known better.

    Anyway, this is all simply talking in circles, as none of it really matters anymore. Microsoft has changed their policies and we've now entered a new chapter in the upcoming "console wars". Instead of focusing on the negatives, we should be focusing on the positives! :) I'm excited... don't know about you guys.
     
  10. Jesse

    Jesse Out of the abyss. LPA Über VIP

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    http://pastebin.com/TE1MWES2

    If this is true it seems like family sharing was a shit deal anyway.
     
  11. RyRy

    RyRy LPA VIP LPA VIP

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    It's kind of sad that Microsoft had the good intention but failed to convince anyone that it worked well (which it did). Now we have another console cycle where game developers are still going to be screwed over. It wasn't right for Sony to make fun of Microsoft for trying to help out the developers, and now Sony is taking in the big bucks while still pointing fingers at Microsoft and devs are losing sales in used games.
     
  12. Jesse

    Jesse Out of the abyss. LPA Über VIP

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    1. It never happened, so it didn't work well because no one experienced it. You can't say something worked good if it never yet existed. It was an idea that was never implemented

    2. That's just pathetic. If a company sees a weakness against it's competitor it's just common sense to go after them and increase your potential customers. That's business and Microsoft shouldn't have been so arrogant and pretended like what they were offering is what the majority wanted, because clearly it wasn't or they wouldn't have changed their policies, which is something Xbox Apologist fail to see.

    3. No one loses money from used games sales. It's just like any other used item bought, and Microsoft especially do not deserve money from developers that are not part of their first party.
     
  13. RyRy

    RyRy LPA VIP LPA VIP

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    1. Okay, bad English. Sue me.

    2. I said it wasn't right for Sony to do this. I said (in the exact same sentence) that Sony takes the money. Is it really pathetic to say it's not right for companies to bully each other?

    3. It should read "...and now Sony is taking the big bucks while still pointing fingers at Microsoft and devs are losing sales in used games.
     
  14. Jesse

    Jesse Out of the abyss. LPA Über VIP

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    No one in losing sales, again. It's already been sold, the devs have been paid. (Unfairly? Most likely, but that's another issue altogether.) How hard is that to grasp, really? Still, I'm done apologists are impossible to get through and I'm honestly tired of the drama myself and it's also getting tiring trying to talk all while the words fall on deaf ears. Ah well, "live and let live" is a great philosophy to live by, I think, so I guess I'll just do that and stop lamenting on such things.
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2013
  15. RyRy

    RyRy LPA VIP LPA VIP

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    Instead of purchasing a game new, consumers buy games used and hand their money to whoever isn't the developer. I mean... That's it.
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2013
  16. Jesse

    Jesse Out of the abyss. LPA Über VIP

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    Instead of purchasing a new car, consumers buy cars used and hand their money to whoever isn't the creator. I mean... That's it.

    Instead of purchasing new clothes, consumers buy clothes used and hand their money to whoever isn't the designer. I mean... That's it.

    Instead of purchasing a Music CD, consumers buy Music CD's used and hand their money to whoever isn't the artist. I mean... That's it.

    Instead of purchasing a new novel, consumers buy novels used and hand their money to whoever isn't the novelist. I mean... That's it.

    First sale doctrine: It exists.

    And for all the talk I hear about developers not getting paid, it seems the only group I hear anything from is publishers. But again, done.
     
  17. MKH

    MKH Bat of Gotham LPA Super VIP

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    Jesse, is there any particular reason you continue posting long replies about the original policies and now people who are upset about Microsoft's lack of backbone, despite having established the PS4 is your choice either way?

    This is less about the Xbox One now and more about what you feel you are entitled to as a human being with rights or something.
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2013
  18. Jesse

    Jesse Out of the abyss. LPA Über VIP

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    Well, I'm not speaking exclusively about Microsoft now but the first sale doctrine and how it's unfair to say there is a loss of sales, and when people respond it's rude to ignore them. Perhaps it's a discussion for another thread, and as I've said multiple time now, I'm done. If people are to keep quoting me and asking me questions, well, I've already said it's rude to ignore people.
     
  19. MKH

    MKH Bat of Gotham LPA Super VIP

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    Oh, no, that's fine - I was looking for an answer to your actions.

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    Fact of the matter is, what's done is done. Those who understood the Xbox One for what it was and opted to buy it will continue to do so. Those who were loyal to the Xbox until they were told they can no longer rip off developers, and whined the Xbox cost $100 more, suddenly have $100 more to fork over for the new console. I say "new" lightly, because it isn't new - it's an upgraded 360. And anyone who always wanted the PS4 to begin with, I wish you the best of luck and enjoyment with your upgraded PS3.

    That's right, this holiday season, there will be TWO new 360 S models, both with new looks, just internal changes. One of them used to utilize a quick-swapping feature for any games you owned, but now that only works with games you buy through the Marketplace itself, because everyone knows downloading a 6 GB game is much faster than manually installing it via disc, obviously since we all have 300 MB down connection speeds - who even likes their physical media for safe-keeping and collector's purposes anyway, right?

    Whoever made the final call is a piece of shit that has shown Microsoft to be more of the people's bitch than anything else. If you propose a business model and publicize it, stick with it and find the niche that buys it. Once it got in the hands of folks, if it really was as great as you claim it was, then the consumer would have done what they always do - make it sell more. Now Microsoft has just shown that the internet basically holds the public majority sharehold in the company.

    The reason every 10-year-old has an iPhone today is because my dad got a first generation in late 2007, all his buddies wanted in, all their buddies wanted in, and generations kept coming out until the only people that didn't have it were 10-year-old's. *Note: I'm not saying my dad was the first person ever to buy an iPhone, for anyone who can't read the bottom line.*

    "A giant iPhone" is what people first insulted the iPad with, and how'd that turn out? All its competitors make ads that say how the iPad can't do this or that, yet iPad sales triumph. Why? Because it found its niche and settled in, and people have told their friends "it's awesome because [insert personal reason here]".

    I am confident it would've happened for the Xbox One because it happens for everyone with a product with a name, and this is the next Xbox we're talking about.
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2013
  20. RyRy

    RyRy LPA VIP LPA VIP

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    Since you're so keen on being polite, it's rude (and immature) to name call, mock and imitate others while posting long responses that you know aren't going to solve anything except for your need to demolish anyone's liking of Microsoft and to accomplish your own self need of doing so. You obviously understand exactly what I'm trying to say but instead you want to be a dick in your responses and "win" arguments that you start yourself. I'll quote you as many times as I want to with the expectation that you understand how to have a discussion, which might be hard for you seeing how quick you were to correct me for a short post I made trying to express my opinion. Instead of adding to the discussion you choose to point at a poor word choice and call me a "greedy apologist". I hope you keep up with your attitude of not being rude to others.

    And if you'd like me to point out further things, I never asked you a single question. You said you were done many times yet keep coming back for more.
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2013

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