Yes, if you accept a false premise you reach a false conclusion. That has nothing to do with real justification.
The impression I get is that he essentially said that Todd and, based on what I'm assuming are his grounds for saying that about Todd, anyone else who expresses strong convictions is likely to kill someone just for disagreeing. That is so off the mark it boggles my mind.
Again, you guys keep talking about political motivations, I said earlier this guy has a mental disorder. I am 99.9% sure that what political party the congresswoman associates with was the last thing on the shooter's mind. http://www.cnn.com/2011/CRIME/01/08/arizona.shooting/index.html?hpt=T1&iref=BN1 "All I can tell you is there's reason to believe this individual may have a mental issue," Dupnik said. Anyone who studies neuropsychology could look at the guy's YouTube videos and tell right away the guy has an illness. He's suffering from grandiose delusions that he can control people's minds (he has a "how to: mind control video, and he refers to the people watching his videos as the "listener", he thinks he's controlling people.) and that he's going to add his own symbols to the alphabet. His sentences also tend to ramble on and not be completely coherent. These are both clear signs of some sort of manic disorder, whether it's severe bi-polar disorder or manic depression. He also says he's a "conscious dreamer" or whatever that means. Maybe he's hallucinating and he's an untreated schizophrenic? The point here, is that Sarah Palin, conservatives, democrats, elections, all of that stuff is the least of our worries in regards to what happened today. No use in arguing about it.
In my opinion, the mental part was what made him go through with actually attempting to KILL somebody. But mental people can still have political views. He didn't just randomly go into a grocery store and shoot people. He knew that the congresswomen would be there and went in there with intentions to kill her. For me, the unknown is why the hell he shot 12 other people including a little boy. I'm no expert, but he may have decided that anyone in the same area as her had the same political views/supported her since she announced that she was going to be there.
There have been reports that he was calling out the names of the people he was targeting. Police haven't confirmed this but this is reported.
http://azstarnet.com/news/local/crime/article_91db5db4-1b74-11e0-ba23-001cc4c002e0.html Oh boy. People are going to have a field day with that.
I'm pro gay and gun who wants to give everyone free healthcare for everything but abortions. Who do I wanna kill? I'm getting antsy and need an answer.
Abortion is very different from healthcare. Having known a guy being refused admittance to a hospital after suffering a mild heart attack in the US, because he didn't have insurance. That's healthcare. Not a girl got accidentally pregnant and wants an abortion as a form of contraceptive, that is not healthcare. And coming from a country where we aren't refused treatment regardless of insurance coverage or not, whatever politician encourages such a notion of no free health care disgusts me. edit. I was thinking, isn't it ironic that a Sarah Palin supporter has an illness she refuses to fund? If only she had looked the other way, the man with the mental illness would have gotten help if she didn't put her hand up and objected to Obama's (?) proposal.
Abortions are still part of healthcare. A different type, sure, but it is a medical procedure which drastically alters the physical and psychological outcome for the patient.
Exactly. So why are the political views relevant? People are allowed to have opinions, but this man clearly has an illness. And the man is probably not a republican or a democrat. His videos seemed to suggest anti-government/anarchy if anything.
but also Animal Farm. It just sounds like a bunch of books he read and found interesting, not necessarily ones that influenced his viewpoint. I saw news coments under these articles and found some idioic argument between people trying to pideonhole him as a left wing , and others as a right wing, using those books and "omg he looks liburrl" as justification :/ Oftentimes nutjobs aren't in either category, and there's more than two kinds of categories (Totalitarianism is neither left or right). He even has shades of libertarianism. So basically, no field day, OR I SHUSH YOU.
I read something earlier, not sure of the link now, but one of the victims was a nine year old little girl, she was born on September 11, 2001. How sad
Her name was Christina-Taylor Green, daughter of John Green, who is a scout for the L.A. Dodgers, and granddaughter of Dallas Green, Phillies baseball legend. Phillies baseball is my life so I was stunned to hear of who the little girl was. Absolutely devastating. Here's an article about Christina-Taylor Green: http://azstarnet.com/news/local/article_28c8e686-1ca6-5b3e-ab85-965bd22c68c0.html That article got to me so hard. I feel sick. May she rest in peace. <3
That's it. You just know people are going to try to paint him as a communist or a neo-nazi or something, even though the reality probably isn't as simple as that. That and, as you said, just because someone's read those books it doesn't necessarily mean that they agreed with them anyway.
Honestly this is looking more like a hate crime/politically motivated crime by the hour. Yes you guys call him mentally ill, but read this: Source: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/01/09/jared-loughner-youtube-videos-_n_806370.html
I could ask you the same question: do you fancy yourself some sort of armchair psychologist? Not really, no. Just because my opinion is an unpopular opinion, doesn't make it wrong. I'm pretty sure I've seen you wish death on Sarah Palin. Probably the Westboro Church as well. But, I'm sorry, I don't feel like going through the entire history of this board dating back to 2008 just to look for definitive proof that you've said it. The way they look at life might not resonate with you, but to them, it's all they know and it makes sense. Who are you to tell them any different? On the flipside, who are they to tell you any different? Being homosexual, pro/anti guns, etc. might be okay to one side of the coin, but on the other it's completely wrong and offensive. Who cares? We've all wished death upon someone.. what separates us from people like this guy, is that we don't act on it because we aren't mentally unstable. Well, some of us aren't anyway. I'm not trying to "flame" you or anything, but it's getting kind of old, to blame everything and anything on Sarah Palin or any politician you don't like. If Obama had a propaganda poster like the one Derek posted on the first page of this thread, and someone killed a representative on that list, would you blame Obama? Stop before you answer that, because I know immediately you'll say, "YES! Of course." But I don't think anyone would. They'd rip the gunman's life and mental stability to shreds and then shit and piss on his grave before blaming Obama. Come on, guys. Don't let your personal gripes with a politician's stance on things/idiocy to blind yourself on how you're seeing this news story. It's no one's fault but the gunman. That's it. End of story. I mean no disrespect when I ask you, how am I out of line? Because I flipped what Todd said on it's back, and called him out for hating "those" people for the exact opposite reasons? I clearly said that they're wrong to think that way (in my mind) about certain issues (anti-homosexual being the largest), but it's true. We all hate them because they don't think the way we do. They hate "us" because we don't think the way they do. And I'm sure Todd, and many others, including myself probably, have wished death on Sarah Palin or any number of politicians/anyone else in the world. Like I said earlier, not a big deal, because we don't act on it. Let's not get all high and mighty and say that we aren't allowed to wish death on someone, even if we're exaggerating our hatred of someone, because it's morally wrong. Because we've all done it, whether you want to admit it or not. Obviously I'm speaking some sort of truth, since at least Amanda agreed with me, and Rocky kind of understands what I'm trying to say. I know it may seem like I'm "fighting the power" or whatever for no particular reason, but my reasons are justified within myself. I can take you disagreeing with me, but when you say I'm out of line and then don't even bother to explain why (in your mind) and let me counter-act with an explanation of my own, that's when I get a little offended. I don't expect one now (I expect a warning, really, because... well, i don't really know. because i'm mean and rawr i'm standing up for Palin, bad boy!)
I called you out of line because you insinuated/assumed that just because certain racists want people like Todd dead, that Todd would secretly want them dead as well. That's idiotic, and a really crazy statement to make. Case in point: I disagree with a lot of your points of view at times and even have been offended by some of the things you've done in the past. Does that mean that I'd want you dead or wish someone would shoot you in the head like what happened with Giffords? No. So you were wrong, and you were welcome to counteract with your explanation. We don't think you're "fighting the power", nor will we warn you for sticking up for Palin. We will however, confront you when you make a statement that is wrong, out of line and categorically false...and that's what we did here. People don't wish tragedies like this on anyone. Not even on those who wish others dead. Oh and FYI: Just because someone agrees with you doesn't make it truth. If that was the case then Glenn Beck is the most honest journalist in today's media. And we all know that's a load of bull.
With all due respect, you're welcome to think that what I say is wrong, but I don't believe it is. I'm not even being a smart ass when I say that. I guess I have the most unpopular opinions on things most of the time, and that's okay, I suppose. As long as I'm not totally alone in my opinions, then I'd really feel like an outcast
And I respect that. Obviously you feel what you say is truth, otherwise you wouldn't defend it so vigorously. However; just like with you, we are entitled to be offended by your insinuations and call you out on them even if you feel them to be the truth. You said something that felt like an attack on Todd, and he and others responded to it. And that's the long and short of it.
Hey, as long as everyone knows I'm not trying to destroy their character or anything, I'm good. I came into this thread yesterday expecting it to be full of well wishes towards the families and others, but it turned into a 4 page debate about politics, which should be the last thing on anyone's mind right when something like this happens. I think I'm done with this thread, I've said all I've wanted to. This very same debate is going on at like, 4 other forums I'm at and it's most going in the way this one has. I think I might take a much needed break from the internet to avoid my face blowing up in anger.