The Return of Fort Minor?

Discussion in 'News' started by Zane, Feb 28, 2015.

  1. #81
    Fleur de Lys

    Fleur de Lys Well-Known Member

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    That was what I was referring to. That's why I wrote "playing a full album live again". If you watch the interviews from around that time, they are generally against the idea of revisiting the past, and that was a one off (probably something to do with a lot of money).
     
  2. #82
    Sonic

    Sonic Searching for the last Chaos Emerald... LPA Super Member

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    The timing is perfect for this. Chester is going on tour with Stone Temple Pilots soon, so obviously they're taking a break from Linkin Park for a little bit (although that as long as a break as they took between Meteora & Minutes to Midnight), so why not bring out some new Fort Minor? Fans have been at this for 10 years now.

    With that said, the 10 Year Anniversary talk can stop.
     
  3. #83
    mandylane

    mandylane Well-Known Member

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    if someone has any news on fort minor please do keep us informed. mike shinoda has made twitter and facebook but never posted with these accounts anything yet. i love fort minor i just wonder what kind of guest artist would be on the cd if they released fort minor 2.

    isnt it nice to atleast after 10 years bring out fort minor again
     
  4. #84
    hawk

    hawk because the internet LPA Super VIP

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    all signs do point to new fort minor, which is exciting.

    that said, i am very interested to see where he goes with this. the hip-hop game is fucking crazy. if he sticks around there (with the fort minor name attached, i feel as though he should), i will be very curious to see how it stands next to all the competition in the game.
     
  5. #85
    Minus

    Minus ohai LPA Addicted VIP

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    If his recent attempts at rapping are any indication, not well at all. I mean, The Rising Tied wasn't even that great lyrically (instrumentally though, damn son) and I've become more and more convinced that Mike has just been extremely lucky the few times his raps have actually been above average.
     
  6. #86
    Storm

    Storm Well-Known Member

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    Not sure how you can get lucky when writing things and execute them. Talent is not random, you either have it or you don't.
    As far as good or not, how something is perceived is always part of the same old objective-subjective matter. For example, Until It Breaks to me counts as "recent", as in one of the handful rap parts he has made in the last decade, and it stands between the best verses he has spit in his entire career (I'm only not sure I agree on the effects/echoes on his voice, I'd rather have it as in the demo). If you think that it sucks, well, there you have it. Contrast of opinion.
     
  7. #87
    Minus

    Minus ohai LPA Addicted VIP

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    In comparison to his "peers" in the hip-hop community, I think the only things he's really been able to hold his own on have been a few verses on the FM:WM mixtape (Skin to Bone remix as well. And yes, even though I love the shit out of WTCFM, those verses are pretty meh), and those were merely "pretty okay". He can shine when he needs to, tracks like Spraypaint and Inkpens come to mind.

    He's an above-average rapper when you consider he's in a rock band, but when you compare him to say, Killer Mike and El-P, Kendrick Lamar, J Cole, Gambino or anyone who has been the "top" of the rap game the past few years, you can't really say he's good.

    Yes, he's talented. But dropping a sick verse is hit or miss. Almost all rappers are hit and miss (with the rare standouts like El-P and Killer Mike specifically), and unfortunately Mike would fall under the category of being more miss than hit unless he proves me wrong.
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2015
  8. #88
    Storm

    Storm Well-Known Member

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    On El-P and Killer Mike I cheer, in other cases (such as Gambino), the voice itself can be a turn off for me. I'm not a big hip-hop guy at all, so I'm very selective when it comes to this genre, which is why I look at the tone and voice of a rapper as well. The instrumental plays a huge rule too. As far as lyrics, as long as they tell something meaningful without using the word "nigga" a thousand times or claim about "how I rich I am and how I spend all on bitches tonight", then I'm pretty much fine.
    All I can say is that I hope the news is true and that he will lay something down after 10 years. To make a statement, to point where he's at in the scene. How his vision is of music in general in 2015, outside of LP. That's what I'd like the most.
     
  9. #89
    Susy

    Susy god break down the door LPA Contributor

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    Mike Shinoda has no place on the hip hop scene right now, so I hope there's the minimum amount of references towards that.
     
  10. #90
    Minus

    Minus ohai LPA Addicted VIP

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    Lyrics aside, let's break down Mike's verses in Until It Breaks. Verse 1.

    Code:
    I was born with the hunger of a lion, the strength of a Sun
                                                             [color=#ff0000]A[/color]
    I don't need to sweat it when a competition come
                                                 [color=#ff0000]A[/color]
    Original style, like an 808 drum
                                 [color=#ff0000]A[/color]
    So I don't run the track, no, I make the track run
                                                    [color=#ff0000]A[/color]
    My momma taught me words, my daddy built rockets
                                                [color=#ff0000]B[/color]
    I hold 'em both together now, tell me what I got
                                                [color=#ff0000]B.5[/color]
    It's a pretty smart weapon, I can shoot it, I can drop it
    [color=#ff0000]B.5[/color]                                                    [color=#ff0000]B[/color]
    But learn to respect it 'cause you clearly can't stop it
                                                        [color=#ff0000]B[/color]
    It's like that
    The rhyming scheme for this verse has been labeled with letters to signify rhyming pairs. The first verse of UIB is absurdly simple, with 4 lines per rhyme.1 The B is multisyllabic2 in nature which is only kinda interesting considering bar 6's rhyme is actually technically split between the end of 6 and the beginning of 7. Notice there really isn't any internal rhyming3 here, which is interesting considering Mike believes himself a student of one of the kings of internal rhyme, Rakim.

    On to verse 2!

    Code:
    It ain't over
    'Cause the shark's on the left side, the snake's on the right
                                                             [color=#ff0000]C[/color]
    And anything you do, they wanna get a little bite
                                                    [color=#ff0000]C[/color]
    It really doesn't matter if you're wrong or if you're right
                                                            [color=#ff0000]C[/color]
    'Cause once they get their teeth in nothing really fights
                                                        [color=#ff0000]C[/color]
    And as for me I do it like I got nothing to lose
                    [color=#ff0000]D[/color]                             [color=#ff0000]D[/color]
    And you can run your mouth like you could try to fill my shoes
        [color=#ff0000]D[/color]                                           [color=#ff0000]D[/color]            [color=#ff0000]D[/color]
    But steady little soldier, I ain't standing next to you
                                                         [color=#ff0000]D[/color]
    I'll be laying on the ground before you're even in my view
                                                            [color=#ff0000]D[/color]
    It's like that
    More of the same here. There's some very tenuous internal rhyming here within the 3rd pair of the verse, giving a kinda half-line effect, but it's tenuous in that Mike doesn't really stress these rhymes. The attempt is kinda accentuated by the "like" in each line splitting the bar. This could be intentional but considering the lack of emphasis on that delivery, I'm probably just giving Mike more credit than he deserves there.

    Code:
    It's something for your
    people on the block to
                    [color=#ff0000]E[/color]
    Blackout and rock to
                    [color=#ff0000]E[/color]
    Give you what you need
                        [color=#ff0000]F[/color]
    Like Papa, who shot ya?
            [color=#ff0000]E[/color]           [color=#ff0000]E[/color]
    Separate the weak
                   [color=#ff0000]F[/color]
    from the obso
              [color=#ff0000]E[/color]
    -lete, the meek, I creep
        [color=#ff0000]F[/color]       [color=#ff0000]F[/color]       [color=#ff0000]F[/color]
    Hard on impostors
                   [color=#ff0000]E[/color]
    I will give him credit for this part of the verse. I separated the lines to this one into half-bars to illustrate that he's doing an interesting little internal rhyme. The first "half" is actually an upbeat kinda deal that begins at the end of a measure. The actual musical measure begins at "people".4

    The rhyme scheme of each bar is an E, while the middle lines are in F. To better illustrate (remember, "It's something for your" is NOT a part of the verse when considering blocking:

    Code:
    Line 1: EE
    Line 2: FE
    Line 3: FE
    Line 4: FE
    Code:
    And switch styles on the dime, quick-witted y'all
                                [color=#ff0000]G[/color]            [color=#ff0000]H[/color]
    Quit tripping, I don't have time for your crying
            [color=#ff0000]H[/color]                    [color=#ff0000]G[/color]                [color=#ff0000]G[/color]
    I grind tough, sucker, make your mind up
            [color=#ff0000]I[/color]                            [color=#ff0000]I[/color]
    Are you in the firing squad or are you in the line-up?
                                                    [color=#ff0000]I[/color]
    Bang, bang, little monkey man playing
    [color=#ff0000]J[/color]        [color=#ff0000]J[/color]                        [color=#ff0000]J[/color]
    With the big guns only get you slayed
                                    [color=#ff0000]J[/color]
    I ain't playing, I'm just saying
            [color=#ff0000]J[/color]                    [color=#ff0000]J[/color]
    You ain't got a sliver of a chance
        [color=#ff0000]J[/color]            [color=#ff0000]K[/color]            [color=#ff0000]L[/color]
    I get iller, I deliver while you quiver in your pants
            [color=#ff0000]K[/color]        [color=#ff0000]K[/color]                [color=#ff0000]K[/color]                [color=#ff0000]L[/color]
    So shake, shake down, Money, here's the break down
                [color=#ff0000]M[/color]                                [color=#ff0000]M[/color]
    You can play the bank, Imma play the bank take down
                                                [color=#ff0000]M[/color]
    And no mistakes now I'm coming to get you
                [color=#ff0000]M[/color]                        [color=#ff0000]Super iffy N[/color]
    I'm just a Banksy, you're a Brainwash, get the picture?
                                            [color=#ff0000]Super iffy N[/color]
    It's like that
    The last part of the final verse has quite a bit of internal rhyming, but the majority of it is of the singular variety. Bars 3 and 4 are all I, lines 5-7 are all J. Line 8 is nice considering it's a carry-over of J going into the KL rhyming scheme (which, incidentally, only sticks around for a line).

    Now, let's compare that "experimental song" by LP with one of the most "mainstream" songs by, oh, Eminem.

    Code:
    His palms are sweaty, knees weak, arms are heavy[color=#ff0000]
         A           B    C     C     A        B[/color]
    There's vomit on his sweater already: mom's spaghetti[color=#ff0000]
              A             B       B      A        B[/color]
    He's nervous, but on the surface he looks calm and ready[color=#ff0000]
           D                  D                A        B[/color]
    To drop bombs but he keeps on forgetting[color=#ff0000]
        A    A            C    A       B[/color]
    What he wrote down, the whole crowd goes so loud[color=#ff0000]
             E     F         E     F     E   E   F[/color]
    He opens his mouth but the words won't come out[color=#ff0000]
        E          F                 E          F[/color]
    He's choking, how? Everybody's joking now[color=#ff0000]
           E       F                 E     F[/color]
    The clock's run out, time's up, over - blaow[color=#ff0000]
          E          F                E      F[/color]
    Now before we move on, let me note that in less than half a verse, Eminem has used more rhyming pairs/families than Mike has for nearly 2.335 verses. And these are all intentional as Marshall clearly emphasizes each rhyme in the line. Then there's the quick-fire of the last half of the verse quotation that is just E and F.

    Code:
    Snap back to reality, oh, there goes gravity[color=#ff0000]
               G     H     G           G      H[/color]
    Oh, there goes Rabbit, he choked, he's so mad but he won't[color=#ff0000]
    G          G     H          G          G       H      G[/color]
    Give up that easy nope, he won't have it, he knows[color=#ff0000]
                H      G        G        H        G[/color]
    His whole back's to these ropes, it don't matter, he's dope
    [color=#ff0000]     G           H                   G         H        G[/color]
    He knows that, but he's broke, he's so stagnant, he knows
    [color=#ff0000]    G         H           G         G       H        G[/color]
    When he goes back to this mobile home, that's when it's
    [color=#ff0000]         G      H           G     G           H[/color]
    Back to the lab again, yo, this whole rhapsody
    [color=#ff0000]      H         H       G        G       H[/color]
    He better go capture this moment and hope it don't pass him
    [color=#ff0000]          G      H         G           H      G      0.6H[/color]
    This is quick-fire rhyming with a ridiculous 3-syllable scheme going on. The G scheme is the "oh" sound. The H, however, is based on the word "reality", but really just the "ality" of the word. These span from single word rhymes like "gravity" to two-to-three-word phrases like "Rabbit he", "mad but he", "back's to these", "that but he's", etc. And while I'm not going into this lyrical breakdown from a narrative standpoint, I'd be an idiot to not note that Em is telling a coherent story while doing this relatively complex6 rhyming scheme.

    Anyways, what I'm trying to say is that lyrics aside (that's a whole different thing I'll tackle in a later post), Mike is still a pretty below-average rapper.

    So that's all I have to say about that.7

    Also that took way too much time.8

    Footnotes:
    1 - There's a super tenuous argument to be made that "808" and "make" in lines 3 and 4 respectively were meant to rhyme, but considering the lack of emphasis on those words I doubt it. If you want to give him credit for it, that's fine.
    2 - I use "multisyllabic" very loosely here. It's two words, one of which is "it". Technologic by Daft Punk is an example of how easy it is to make a song using _____ it as the basis of a rhyme.
    3 - Internal rhyming is having rhyming pairs inside a standard line. This is shown in verse 3 of UIB and other verses that I break down in this post.
    4 - It serves a similar purpose as "It ain't over" in verse 2. It's an intro to the verse.
    5 - Repeating of course.
    6 - In regards to the comparison I'm making. For really ridiculous schemes, see Eminem on Infinite, Mos Def, Rakim, Inspectah Deck on Triumph, K.Dot, even Chief Keef.
    7 - Yes, this was a direct response to your claims of being a good rapper being objective/subjective in nature. It really isn't.
    8 - Mostly because I was individually coloring the rhyming patterns rather than using the color tag for alternating lines. Because I'm stupid.
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2015
  11. #91
    minuteforce

    minuteforce Danny's not here, Mrs. Torrance. LPA Team

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    Mmm. He could really carve out a spot for himself with beats, though. His record on that front isn't bad, and that's the only reason I'm looking forward to potential Fort Minor music
     
  12. #92
    brady

    brady Gibs you ignorant slut LPA Super Member

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    This. While most claim Lupe Fiasco's newest album to be a lyrical masterpiece, the instrumental is a huge turn off for me and the same goes with most of his guests that he brings on Tetsuo & Youth, which makes me unable to enjoy the album at all. You can be a lyrical genius but if I find your voice to be pretty shitty and/or the instrumental sucks, I will not listen to that rapper. This sadly limits the rap/hip hop music I listen to severely. Not to mention the amount sex and drug references that make it into rap lyrics seems to be increasing.

    In addition, I find the instrumentals of many rap songs to be very boring and unoriginal and rarely anything ever stands out to me. I once pointed out to a friend (that was playing his music way to loud through his earbuds) that I either hear that same song a lot or that drum beat is way over used in rap songs. In which he replied by saying my taste in music is completely discredited by me liking Linkin Park. Just goes to show the maturity level of my grade. :/
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2015
  13. #93
    minuteforce

    minuteforce Danny's not here, Mrs. Torrance. LPA Team

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    It's the same style of beat, and that's understandable because it is getting a little same-y, I suppose. Personally, I absolutely love competently-done trap production, whether in hip-hop or dance music, so I don't mind it in the least. :)
     
  14. #94
    TheRAT

    TheRAT Well-Known Member

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    I'm hesitant to speak on this forum but this is exciting news so here goes nothing with some thoughts.

    I think I will pull my hair out if I hear another "soldier" reference in a Mike rap. Also, I think Mike raps more often about personal experience and unfortunately that experience is one we've heard rapped about quite a few times. I do think that the raps from the HT and Meteora days were written more to cater to the songs. Of course there was still a lot of personal experience in those songs but the delivery of the raps wasn't extremely straight forward like in more recent songs.

    When They Come For Me:

    'cause even a blueprint is a gift and a curse,
    'cause once you got a theory of how the thing works
    everybody wants the next thing to be just like the first

    Just very blunt (everyone wanted HT and Meteora again) and doesn't really fit with the chorus.

    On Hybrid Theory and Meteora and even a few sporadic songs after we get this complete description of things and a chorus that seems to respond directly to it. They're clearly talking about the same things. Post Minutes to Midnight I think the raps just got to personal. Not enough metaphors, way to much of the blunt, "this is what happened" raps. Which is fine if you are a hardcore LP fan because you understand it but for the average listener it's kind of eh. HT, Meteroa, and MTM were easily interpreted for average people, you can just put your own meaning to those, no background needed. I think the super personal raps only work if you can really word craft and do some of the crazy junk that rappers you guys mentioned before do.

    That said I do believe Mike can pull out some great stuff but the focus needs to be different. He's said many times he gets to much on his plate and I think that takes away from the outcome. Before he had A LOT more time to write and polish his raps. I think he just gets burnt out producing and organizing and advertising and touring and interviewing and producing some more it's a crazy amount of work and that kind of load diminishes your finished product.

    Lastly, the "Shinoda is Dead" twitter account did kind of freak me out. Glad im not the only one. haha.
     
  15. #95
    minuteforce

    minuteforce Danny's not here, Mrs. Torrance. LPA Team

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    In the case of "When They Come For Me", I think that any disparity in lyrics between the verses and the other sections serves to make the song multifaceted and multidimensional in a good way
     
  16. #96
    EagleMorph

    EagleMorph Well-Known Member

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    It wasn't a smash hit, but it did better than most. It sold over 400,000 copies, and "Where'd You Go" was certified as a platinum single in the US. Plus, "Remember the Name" has been used heavily in the media in the US.

    For a sort of underground, side project release, that should be considered a success.
     
  17. #97
    minuteforce

    minuteforce Danny's not here, Mrs. Torrance. LPA Team

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    You make a good point.
     
  18. #98
    Susy

    Susy god break down the door LPA Contributor

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    Minus' post is love. Minus' post is life.
     
  19. #99
    Alexrednex

    Alexrednex Well-Known Member

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    Rhyming wise, you just compared Shinoda to one of the best (R)appers out there, so it's no surprise Mike ends up looking like a newborn kitten in comparison

    If you compare vocabulary, imagery or metaphors on Until It Breaks to Lose Yourself, I would argue that Mike's verses are more interesting(while that's obviously not always the case).
    Which goes back to the fact that music is subjective --> Rhyming(amount of rhymes I guess) may be objective but Poetry isn't.
    Some people like fast rapping with complicated rhyme scemes and others like it slow or simple or poetic or epic or bombastic etc.
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2015
  20. Michele

    Michele Praise Brad Delson, our Lord and Savior. LPA Addict

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    :CUMULUS:
     

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