The burqa controversy

Discussion in 'Serious Chat' started by Gloomy Mushroom, Jun 29, 2010.

  1. #81
    Luke

    Luke Mind Your Manners. LPA Addicted VIP

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    Todd wins thread.
     
  2. #82
    Gitsnik

    Gitsnik WAAAGH!!! Über Member

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    In most European countries these clothes are only worn by a minority of people (a figure I heard was that only 3 000 women wore a burqa/niqab in France) and the governments use fear to enforce laws that are taking even more private liberties from people.
     
  3. #83
    Theazninvasion68

    Theazninvasion68 It's like blood to a vampire, our tragic desire. LPA Super VIP

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    Of anything in this read, I think Jesse put it in the simpliest, most clearest way possible. Moreso than Todd, or Luke. It does so by staying on topic and doesn't dwiddle around about talking about equivocal stuff. To explain..

    The talk about Islam is the universal, while the Burqa is only part of Islam.

    To further blame it on Islam, and furthermore Religion is kind of confusing.


    If this isn't the pin-point reason why the Burqa isn't cool, then I give up. :lol:
     
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2010
  4. #84
    deftonesfan867

    deftonesfan867 976-EVIL

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    I see a whole lot of assumptions in this thread....
     
  5. #85
    Chris

    Chris LPA Addict LPA Addict

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    Can you imagine playing a football match with that thing on your head? Seriously? What the FIFA asked has nothing to do with security or whatsoever, it's about the game.

    Go to Iran or Saudi Arabia and see how 'free' you'll be.

    On topic: I don't know what to think about it. Everyone should be free to express themselves if it comes to religion. If you want to wear a Hijab, fine. A cross? Sure. A burqa? No. You can wear it home all you want but you can easily rob a bank. And the law which forbids women to wear a burqa is not just about the burqa. Don't wear a helmet, a balaclava or anything else that conceals your face in public.
     
  6. #86
    Harlz

    Harlz More Scared Of You Than You Are Of Me LPA Super Member

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    Exactly.
    Hijab? Go for your life. Cross? Why not. Star of David tattoo'd on your forehead? Sure.

    But everyone should be recognisable at least.
     
  7. #87
    esaul17

    esaul17 antichrist

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    I haven't had a chance to read this whole thread yet, but I'll chime in quickly.

    I think that if you are in a private place, the owner has the right to dictate what you wear (assuming it doesn't conflict with the law like asking you to be naked). If you don't like it- don't go there.

    Similarly, the government has the right to tell you what to wear in government-run places, including schools.

    When in elementary school, I'd like the burqa to be banned as it isn't something chosen by the children, but forced on them by the parents. It can lead to social exclusion and is problematic. Once older I think they can decide for themselves if they want to be socially excluded or not, assuming there is no reason to suspect a security issue. In the same way I think I should be able to go to class wearing a balaclava, or dressed as Hitler, I think someone should be able to go to class with their face obscured, or wearing a symbol of hatred and oppression, if they so desire. And face the social consequences. But if they have to do a presentation where communication is important, they should unmask their face to improve their ability to communicate.

    As for what Todd said about security, just because you can't cover all security holes doesn't mean you shouldn't try to cover as many as possible. Do not let the perfect be the enemy of the good.
     
  8. #88
    Rana LP Luvr

    Rana LP Luvr 'Fly me up on a silver wing'

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    i kinda liked your opinion about the bourqa...... for me.... I'm Muslim ...but i wear viels not that long bourqa !!! :)
     
  9. #89
    Gloomy Mushroom

    Gloomy Mushroom Absolute Zero LPA Super VIP

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    But in private schools, the government really has no say.
    Technically the Burqa is introduced at puberty.
     
  10. #90
    esaul17

    esaul17 antichrist

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    To be honest, I really don't like private schools in general. There should be a government-enforced curriculum and such that every child should get, I don't think any child should have to receive an education through any religious filter.
     
  11. #91
    the enigma

    the enigma The Routine Scar

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    Marj, I don't think you understand what's going on here. It is NOT your right to tell me what I can and cannot do. You CANNOT order me around just to satisfy your own paranoid notions. As long as I am not hurting anyone, I should not be punished for what I do with my life.
     
  12. #92
    Gloomy Mushroom

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    Marj does know what's going on. She has her reasons as I have mine.
     
  13. #93
    Todd

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    Not all private schools are bad, and some are completely non-religious, and are good alternatives for people who live in an area where public schools are sub-par (basically any inner-city area in the US) and still want their children to get a good education. Students who do attend private schools should have to take standardized testing to make sure they're learning real science like evolution, that homosexuality is not a choice but is something you're born with, and learning that the US's founding fathers were mostly agnostic and atheist and that we are not a Christian nation, and whatever other propaganda private religious schools brainwash students with. But I don't have a problem with private schools that teach facts.

    And the whole Burqa controversy can be summed up by something Benjamin Franklin said a few hundred years ago: Those who would give up liberty for security deserve neither.
     
  14. #94
    esaul17

    esaul17 antichrist

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    I agree, but above it was said that "...in private schools, the government really has no say". It is that conception of private schools I dislike, where your children do not get the rights that other children do because of a choice their parents made. Students of private schools, especially at young ages, should not be subject to religious or political ideology, the school should not be a place for indoctrination, but for free, rational, thought.

    If private schools are government regulated to stringently assure that no child's right is being violated, by the school or by the child's parents by their choice to place them there, then I do not have an issue with it. There are times when increased funding would provide a better alternative than the public schooling and if the parents can afford their child that opportunity they should.
     
  15. #95
    Todd

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    Ah OK. Yeah, I agree that there should be government regulation of private schools.

    Of course, the problem could be solved by properly funding public schools so there's no need for private schools, but that might mean cutting defense spending or raising taxes to pay for it, and we can't do that in the US :rolleyes: I guess the idea is to raise them dumb so they have no choice but to join the military to have any sort of future.
     
  16. #96
    esaul17

    esaul17 antichrist

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    Haha, I am not that knowledgeable on the US' situation. In Canada, I generally was happy with my public school elementary and highschooling though. Of course, such an anecdote proves nothing.


    Off topic, today I saw a presumably Muslim girl in McDonalds with what may have been her boyfriend, wearing a full burqa, and having to lift it every time she wanted to take a lick of her icecream cone. It is her choice, it just seemed so sad to me.
     
  17. #97
    Theazninvasion68

    Theazninvasion68 It's like blood to a vampire, our tragic desire. LPA Super VIP

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    I think we need to reform education.
     
  18. #98
    the enigma

    the enigma The Routine Scar

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    What I meant to say is, I don't think she knows why people are so against it. Punish me if I do something wrong, not if someone else does. Regardless of religion or nationality, no one should be punished for someone else's wrong doings. At least, that's what I see with the banning of the burqa, and that's my stance on it.
     

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