Should "Under God" be taken out of the pledge?

Err...can anyone post the pledge for me as I have no idea what is written in it.

Thanks.

 

i pledge allegiance to the flag of the united states of america. and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under god, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all [/b][/quote]
Ok thanks..

 

Well I hope they don't get their feewings hurt :'(



Whoever contests their beliefs, should have their beliefs contested too. It's always good to blow an hour of class time (if it happens at school) by having an open discussion on the subject. Even though neither side will win (other than by storming out of class in anger, or being kicked out of class by the teacher).


@spiderman: learn to quote, PLEASE! those posts are an eye sore. [/b][/quote]
Amen. I can't tell you how many hours of World History we've blown on things exactly like this that won't be solved without someone getting offended.

 

i think it should be taken out. seperation of church and state.

hell, i dont think they should have the pledge done at school. i remember when i was in kidergarten, i moved from canada, and they told me i had to do the pledge. i had no idea what it was but i had to do it anyways even if i wasnt american. no one had any idea what it meant and probably didnt until like 6th grade. like little kids are supposed to know what indivisible means. when didnt stand up in 8th grade, my teacher had the principal talk to all the kids one by one outside who didnt stand up for the pledge. he said "you could at least stand up" i said okay because i didnt really feel like having a debate with him but i didnt stand up the next day. besides, not like adults do it every day, or at all for that matter. exept maybe at baseball games or something.

ugh, i just remembered we were just talking about whether or not "under god" should be in the pledge. oops :whistle:

 

I'm rusty, but I need to ask this.

Did the whole separation of church and state thing come before or after the pledge? Before the Constitution?

 

The pledge came way after the Constitution, and when it first came out, it didn't even have the "under God" line in it.

 

So it was added later by someone who thought the country was founded by Christians?


The United States is one nation under God, not the only nation. Just because the nation was founded under a belief in a god, doesn't mean it's people are governed by that god or the belief in that god.

 

It wasn't founded under a belief in God... otherwise they wouldn't have separated Church and State in the Constitution...

 

I say keep it, and if anyone doesn't believe in God, let them skip that part.

Besides, nobody really does the pledge. You just lip sync and mutter under your breath. And really, I only had to do it up till middle school, then it stopped. People don't care.

 

Anyone who's telling me it's okay to skip it, IT IS NOT; well here, it isn't. Not only have I gotten in trouble twice for not saying the Pledge, I've gotten in trouble every time and I've been bashed like I was a low-life for it. Yeah, in reality I have the right to say it and they have the right to bash me, but what doesn't seem fair is that the right I take is not as insulting as the right they proceed upon me.

The fact I refuse to say the pledge is not as if I am degrading another, I just feel that in my own personal belief, I do not agree with it. Now, maybe if people would come and talk it out instead of shoving it back in my mouth, telling me I'm wrong and I'm a moron, then hey, I wouldn't make such a big deal about it. But it's the same way religious folks continuously degrade me for being an athiest. So I become an athiest and an unpatriotic fool because I don't think the way the "all-mighty-writer-of-the-pledge" was? What if the pledge was based off of war? "One nation, under the power of war," or something to that extent. You would most likely not agree with it, but however, I, in my opinion, believe something like that to be true. I'm not going to go into the whole thing, but being a citizen, I wouldn't want to be an American if I didn't have to, to say the most.

I know I'll get bashed for this, and I know people will say, "Why not move out of America, then!?!?!/!1oneoneone!!!11" but I don't care, because I'm 16 and I don't have the kind of money to move somewhere else. If I was able to move to Japan right now, I would. I'd learn the language and everything. Pretty moronic to say that I would leave due to the way I see America work, but I would, and I would also move because I don't want to have to be part of something where God's gotta' play such a big role in every day life. Not only that, I want to be able to speak my own mind without being talked down to or even told that what I mean doesn't matter.

I as an athiest do not speak my mind to "grovel" and I can't "suck it up," as so said in this thread. You're putting me down by just telling me to "suck it up," and believe me, I've been "sucking it up" for many years now. In my neighborhood, I could get shot for saying "Religion sucks," so I never say it. So wow, I think I find a place to express myself the way I really feel, even when it comes to the Pledge, and BAM, the same ignorance pours onto me like ooze... Trying to cover and hide every expressive part of me being who I am. Yet we as athiest never intrude and come to religious people and tell them they're ever so wrong as we are preached on ourselves, we're still the "bad guy" at the end no matter who says what.

"Freedom of speech" is down the drain when you can't feel a way without someone coming after you with a dagger. The idea of being free is to learn to accept people, and I've really been trying to accept those who feel different about the way I think, but when you tell me to "suck it up," that's like slapping me in the face. Especially those who sign up here to bring down elites like me who have been here for so many rounds and think they can stick it to us being the damn n00bs that you are. Your words deserve reading, but you don't deserve to call us names for what we believe, and I say that with a general thought.

To sum this up, the reason I make a big deal about this is I am usually threatened with something that could hurt me in the long run for not saying it. I could be a proud American, but the way people in America begin to treat me, I'd rather move to a place where English is a second language and my words wouldn't be understood by all giving me a sense of goodness about myself. There's no reason for people to have to call me names or degrade me for being an athiest or having different views on America's choices, even when it comes to a pledge. It's bad enough to get burned for being an athiest, but it hurts even more when people won't accept you because you try to be who you are, and that's what America was originally supposed to be about. You were supposed to be who you were, and people were supposed to accept you. Not when I must fear my own life and pretend I'm religious so I don't get a bullet in my chest.

I'd also hate for my kids to become athiest (in the event they do) and have to go through the same things I did. My kids don't deserve to be bullied like I have for being different and neither should anyone else's.

 

It's as okay to not say it, as it isn't to criticize those who don't.

 

Say it if you want. Don't say it if you don't want. Simple as that.

 

You're missing the point, superxero.

Even though it's by all the same rights as not saying to being bashed for it, there's something called a line of respect.

You have no idea how hard it was growing up after the first time I refused to say it.

People insulted me, cussed me out, degraded me. Even the TEACHER decided to put me in front of my entire class to degrade me. Calling me an unactive follower of God and calling me unappreciative of what the country's gone through.

I have no problems with what the pledge stands for. Pride is a major issue and I understand we all need it. But it becomes WRONG when everyone turns their backs and gives you the horrors of reject and degration because you do not think the way they do. Being a child, and being called an unactive follower of God and America is hurtful like you probably do not understand. It's probably one reason I then never understood religion because at that age, I did believe there was a God, and when my teacher claimed me to be unactive as a person in general, that became a waste.

The fact we can insult one for not thinking is to an extent. You're not going to go up to an obsese person you don't know and call them "porker, fatty," etc because you have a certain line of respect. The person is obese and you learn to accept that, and you don't make fun of them and you don't point them out. It's the same here. I know people find it direspectful to not say it, but then you have to stop and think that these instances are the same used in every day life as to the millions of different people we see daily, monthly, weekly. It's unfair to be justified as something lower because you think differently.

 

even though i personally am atheist, i do not have a problem with the under god being there. i have said the pledge with that in it for my entire life, except for the past year or two, and it is stupid to change it now. people do not even have to say the pledge, they can just sit there quietly while it is being said. people have a right to say whatever they want, and that is what makes this country america.

 

Keaton, that's just a problem with the people around you. Not all people are degraded and labeled as unpatriotic when they don't say the pledge.

I say that it should be kept in. It's all how you think about "under God" I mean, it could be your God, my God, anyone's God, that isn't specified in the pledge, so why should it be taken out? It's not like the whole pledge is "I pledge my entire life to the great country of America and if you're here you must pray to the Christian God or i'll kick your ass in". If you view it from a Christian's perspective it's their God, from a Muslim's it may be theirs. And for the atheists that don't believe in anything, they have the right to not say it. Freedom of Speech? There you go.

 

In my view: I don't see why people make it such a big deal. It has been said with "under God" for many years and shouldn't be changed just because people don't believe in God. Many people DO believe in God and it's wrong for others to tell them to take out "under God" because they don't believe.

BUT:

The more I think about it - yes, there are people who DON'T believe in God and do take the Pledge seriously. They find it wrong that they must recite lines that they do not agree with.

Many people are loyal to their country so they want to recite the lines of the Pledge with full belief - but with God in the way of it - they can't recite the Pledge with full belief because they don't believe in God.

For all you people who don't believe in God - I do see your point - but it doesn't mean I agree with you.

Infact - I don't know what to agree with.

 

If it's just the people around me then the people of Hawaii need to be destroyed, don't you think? If it's just people in Hawaii that think that way, I personally think they don't deserve to live to spread such a disrespectful act. I think disrespecting someone else's opinion is much more unpatriotic than refusing to say one damn line, but again, I'm an "anti-American athiest," so technically I "have no say."

But then if the classification of "God" means who we think of as God, then damn, does that technically mean I can go up to the President, knee him in the nuts and say he can't do anything back because I am therefor God and I overseek the U.S. and I over rule him? I don't know, that actually sounds a bit risky if you ask me.

 

same here. which is why i just do not say the pledge. i was not born with these opinions, and when i was in kindergarten, i said the pledge and didn't think twice about waht i was saying. but now that things are different and i do not agree with what is going on as a result of this great country, i do not say the pledge. i do not have a vendetta against god or anything like that, by all means, say the under god if you want to.

no matter what happens, there will always be someone that is not happy with the results. that is why it is called a controversy.