"Session" - Song by Song, Let's Talk Linkin Park

Discussion in 'Linkin Park Chat' started by hawk, Jul 2, 2014.

  1. Bawa

    Bawa Could wait to see tomorrow.

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    Honestly, I've been following the thread, not for interesting discussion, but for the amazing info you put out in the posts, and hearing everyone's opinion. So...
     
  2. Atticus

    Atticus Bullets lance the bravest lungs

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    I actually think that Wretches And Kings is a serious case of wasted potential. Chester delivers one of his best aggressive choruses ever, Shinoda is on fucking point for the verses and the instrumental is absolutely filthy. The problem lies in the execution. Chester is incredibly under-utilized, making the chorus glorious but far too brief. The speeches offer intellectual substance but ultimately drag the rest of the track down, and the bridge is downright cringeworthy.

    I will say however that the scratch solo at the end is extremely badass and would have transitioned well into an extended outro onstage. Throw some screams overtop and you would have an incredible climax. That said, I don't hate Wretches And Kings, but I haven't had it in a regular playlist since 2010.
     
  3. Apop

    Apop LPA VIP LPA VIP

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    While I do agree with your analysis of the song here, it may be worth noting that the problems we have with the song may very well have been intentional. To me, the song gives off a chaotic sort of feel, definitely a top 10 for me in terms of a Shinoda production. I remember when the 30 second snippets were released of the songs and I managed to download this particular one. I listened to it over and over again, if I remember correctly intro skipping the Savio speech and just before Mike's first verse. You heard maybe the first few words. It was definitely the song I anticipated most after hearing the snippets.

    Anyway, I guess what I'm trying to say is maybe the delivery and execution of the song was done purposefully. In terms of the album's tracklisting, it's sort of continues Blackout's theme of mind-fuckery and chaos.
     
  4. BTorio

    BTorio Well-Known Member

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    Totally get what you're saying. I like the bridge, but if it was something with Chester's vocals coming back and then going into the scratch outro, and the speech being absent, the song would have more replay value probably. I'm not always in the mood for the speech or the bridge.
     
  5. Alexrednex

    Alexrednex Well-Known Member

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    When that bass hits you know shit is going down.
    The chorus on this track is so unique and packs such a punch.
    I am personally not a big fan of the Bridge but it is still pretty cool. I would have preferred if Chester did something on it(not necessarily screaming).
     
  6. Louis

    Louis Message me if you need to talk. We love you all. LPA Team

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    The first time that I listened to A Thousand Suns, I was walking around Berkeley's campus. I was fairly new to the school and hadn't really taken the time to explore it. I walked around and started noticing different things about the album, and really started to see some of the threads that tied it together. Granted, some of the songs upon first listen were harder to get into, but I remember explicitly how some of the key moments on the album lined up well with where I was walking at the time.

    In this instance, I was walking right in front of the steps of Sproul Hall (now referred to as the Savio Steps) when "Wretches & Kings" came on. I did not know much about Mario Savio, nor about the Berkeley protests of the '60s, until after I had listened to the album in its entirety. All of the connections, at that point, really fell together and it helped me to appreciate a lot of what the album has to offer - especially this particular track. Like most tracks on the album, I wasn't a huge fan - I didn't like how Mike was rapping, how Chester was singing, and I didn't appreciate the bridge outro.

    After several listens, it really came to me how incredibly on point this song is. In the context of workers' rights, the oppression of liberty - whatever it may be - this song hits the nail on the head. Mike doesn't need to be particularly complex with his verses to make his points, and I think the layering he uses and the references he throws in there are ace. However, the real gems of the song are in Chester's lyrics during the chorus. "Filthy animals, beat them low. Skin and bone, black and blue," - the imagery he evokes there is great. Those may be some of the best lyrics on the album, and by extension the band's discography.

    The instrumental, of course, is just awesome. The filtered layers of guitar, the bass line, everything...*filthy*. And I love every moment of it. Even the instrumental for this hip hop song doesn't get boring. And of course, Joe's scratch outro is fantastic. The use of the quote at the beginning and towards the end, especially to include the last part of it for the second round...agh, brilliant crafting. It makes me sad that Linkin Park has made nothing even remotely like this since - this album is so well-crafted that it's insane.

    I do like Mike's outro, after a lot of time thinking about it. For a long time, I thought he was saying, "If you feel what I feel, put 'em up real high," but then I learned (this was way back when) that he was saying, "If you fear what I feel..." which changed everything for me.

    Ugh, I love this album.
     
  7. hawk

    hawk because the internet LPA Super VIP

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    wow.

    today i learned.
     
  8. Nicholas

    Nicholas Well-Known Member

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    "Wretches & Kings" is 4:15 of raw, dirty, pure unadulterated bad-ass. Mike doesn't take shit here, letting everyone know "I’m letting ‘em know
    there ain’t shit you can say to make me back down no". Mike's always dabbled with the "tough guy" attitude since "Step Up" and earlier, but in "A Thousand Suns" and onward it's been more prevalent than ever. I say for that persona of sorts it's executed particularly well here, it's good adrenaline boosting fun and I don't get a forced vibe here. It's all in good fun and it feels like they had a really fun time making this song.

    As for Chester's part, I say for what little of a role he's given in this song he does great. The chorus is short but aggressive, it's in your face, it gets the point across, and it's loud. Now I will say I understand some of the complaints from those that feel Chester's "underutilized" here, but I feel like it plays out perfectly here.

    Chester's part is mean to be in your face and short, if his part was any bigger (hehehe) I think it would take away from that :kappa:

    What. The. Fuck.
     
  9. Filip

    Filip god break down the door LPA Contributor

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    Once again, no time to write up two songs, so here goes "Wisdom, Justice and Love". :)


    "Wisdom, Justice and Love" is the eleventh track, and fifth interlude on A Thousand Suns. The lyrics are an extract from a speech entitled "Beyond Vietnam: A Time to Break Silence" delivered by Martin Luther King Jr. on 4 April 1967, at a meeting of Clergy and Laity Concerned at Riverside Church in New York City. It is without a doubt the hardest track on the album to process. The Martin Luther King Jr. speech sampled in the song is an anti-war speech, which caused much controversy at the time it was delivered, being called a mistake on King's part. Almost fifty years later, it is considered possibly the most important speech King has ever given. Mike Shinoda spoke about this speech, and the other two used on the album in an interview with NME, stating:

    The full speech is incredibly long, and took almost an hour for Martin to deliver. A recording can be heard on YouTube. Linkin Park used only a minor portion of the speech, which states:

    There is no way I could ever say anything close to King's speech so I'll leave it at that. It comes pretty straightforward. If someone disagree's with me that it's the hardest track to process lyrically, I recommend taking a long look on this quote. It's haunting.

    "Wisdom, Justice and Love" revolves around a simple piano line. There is also a buzzing, windy sound in the background. As the song progesses, the wind starts to get louder, as King's voice becomes distorted and robotic. He repeats the final line - "can not be reconciled with wisdom, justice and love" six times. His voice turning more and more robotic is an important factor in the song. It symbolises how we, as humans, are becoming more and more ruthless to each other, abandoning the very essence of what makes us human, and being materialistic instead. As the previous song on the album, "Wretches and Kings" states, "the people up top push the people down low". Many people go after money and fame not caring about what they do to others to get it. This is actually a pretty neat example of how A Thousand Suns is tightly connected as an album, lyrically and conceptually.


    "Wisdom, Justice and Love" was performed live through the majority of the A Thousand Suns cycle, always as an introduction to the next song on the album, "Iridescent". It had it's live debut on October 7, 2010 during the bands show in Buenos Aires, during the first of the three shows of the A Thousand Suns South American Promo Tour. Mike would play the piano line, while Joe triggered other samples in the background of the song. The version embedded above comes from the bands 2010 MTV EMA performance, which was recorded for their MTV World Stage. Of course, this wasn't my first choice. My first choice was the performance from June 23, 2011 during the bands appearance in Moscow for the Transformers 3 premiere. Either MTV or Warner seem to have taken all the videos of the performance down, because - why the fuck not? A very special thing happened there. Russian fans participated in a flash mob during the show. Fans made signs saying "Wisdom", "Justice", and "Love" and held them up first during 'The Radiance' and then during 'Wisdom, Justice, And Love'. Linkin Park posted a picture on their Instagram after the show. It was one of the most touching moments during a band's live show ever. Of course, some genius held up a paper with a trollface on it. Props. The song was retired from the live show at the very end of the A Thousand Suns touring cycle, during the bands September 25, 2011 appearance in Singapore. What do you think of King's speech, "Wisdom, Justice and Love" and it's live performances?
     
  10. Captain-EO

    Captain-EO Gibs Sux LPA Super Member

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    You forgot to mention that there are strings and choir samples in the instrumentation, but that is forgivable. WJL is my favorite speech on the album. I used it for a presentation in class once it's so good. The piano, combined with the synthesized choir and strings and the eerie wind-like sounds, really make this track have an impact. It's a fitting calm moment after the chaotic Wretches and Kings.

    I'd also like to nitpick and point out that WJL mashes together two separate parts of MLK's speech. "I come to this magnificent house of worship tonight because my conscience leaves me no other choice" was from an earlier portion of his speech, while the rest of the sample is from much later.
     
  11. TEGCRocco

    TEGCRocco The LPL Invader

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    This is easily one of the most underrated songs by the band. The simple piano carries so much emotional weight when combined with one of the most powerful speeches I've ever heard that I got a little glassy-eyed upon first listen.
     
  12. BTorio

    BTorio Well-Known Member

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    It's a great lead-in to Iridescent in the context of the full album, but I would probably never listen to it unless I was listening to the full album. The ending of the track was pretty frightening to me the first time I heard it.
     
  13. Tyler

    Tyler Well-Known Member

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    Wretches is a solid song. Not even one of my favorites. Ut I'll hand it to them for making a good hip hop song on ATS. Mike's verses are good, Chester is phenomenal, and most of the instrumental has good parts, but it seems too polished and missing regular guitar like it would have on HT or Meteora. The Savio speech (now 50 years old) is great on there, even with Joe's scratching at the end. Definitely something people wouldn't expect from LP at the time.
    Live, it sucks. Mike's timing is bad and he always mixes the verses. Too much of the song is on playback and Brad hardly does anything until the end with the small guitar riff. The best thing on it live though is the drumming from Rob. He does a great job over the regular beat. Chester does percussion too!

    WJL is alright, I never cared for it much to begin with but now I see more meaning in it. I hope you're right on the becoming robotic parr because that is genius if they intended for that. It's also in a different time signature I believe. Plus it works well before Iridescent.
     
  14. Michele

    Michele Praise Brad Delson, our Lord and Savior. LPA Addict

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    My thoughts. This songs is after all the time haunting to me. Because what you said Filip, which makes the speak more important on ATS. Its the first speach/track/song on ATS who really include the "BIG THEME" of the album. (Atomic) war and how pwople become more and more "Robots" and emotionless. The transmission into the robot voice is just haunting and it fit perfectly before Iridescent.

    The connection with W&K is a thing i never thought about, but it seems very interesting. Amd thats why ATS is my favorite album , there is always something new i dont know about it. Good Job Filip.

    Live its haunting too, but i prefer it in the CoG/Experience Version, makes the whole song meaningful and the atmosphere fantastic. One of my Highlights from the The Hunting Party show.

    ANd the piano on the song, amazing :cry: especially how it makes the way open for Iridescent, one of my favorite interludes on the album. The whole atmosphere is cold , and that makes it haunting for me.


    Great Track.
     
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  15. hawk

    hawk because the internet LPA Super VIP

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    i must admit, there isn't much to discuss on the part of wisdom, justice and love. i find that it doesn't stand strongly on its own, the only interlude that does seems to be jornada del muerto. although i do like how it seems to oppose fallout, in the sense that this one starts without any vocal effects but ends with them, and fallout starts with and ends without.
     
  16. brady

    brady I am the LPA LPA Super Member

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    This song gives me the chills every time I listen to it. Though it's one Linkin Park's more simple songs, it still stands as one of their most powerful.
     
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  17. Reed To Black

    Reed To Black Prog, bro.

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    Wretches and Kings? To me it's pretty meh but I've always disliked the song so... It's probably my least favorite full song in the album
     
  18. brady

    brady I am the LPA LPA Super Member

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    We're on Wisdom, Justice, and Love.
     
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  19. minuteforce

    minuteforce Danny's not here, Mrs. Torrance. LPA Team

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    CANNOT BE RECONCILED WITH WISDOM, JUSTICE AND LOVE
     
  20. Abel

    Abel Chester Bennington saved my life.

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    The most chilling interlude Linkin Park has done after Tinfoil, in my opinion. Hearing MLK's voice is always nice, but then hearing it devolve into this robot-like voice really adds to the goosebumps and gravity the song makes you feel before the next track.

    Which happens to be Iridescent.

    Which is my favorite song of all-time.
     

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