Nah, fuck this. Fuck this shit. Fuck Stannis. Fuck Melisandre. Fuck everything. And yeah, Dany's scene was pretty annoying.
I wonder who people are going to root for now. I can imagine some will still stick with Stannis the Madness now but not many. Jon - Is a member of the Night's Watch. Can not obtain land or titles. Sansa - Will continue to be victimized because apparently that is all she can do Davos - Is Stannis' hand. If Stannis were to die, since he burned his daughter he has no heir (Gendry who?) and thus the Onion Knight has the most leverage to take the throne. Bran - Nah, he is a tree Wizard now. His place is in the vines. Arya - Maybe. She still has revenge on her mind. But she is trying to become No One. Do faceless men care about the throne? Rickon - Most people forget this kid exists. He is probablysomewhere too busy in caves crushing rocks for the lack of nuts to crush. The White Walkers - Huge in number, supremely strong. Probably has been shown to be the least evil beings in the entire series. Welp, they've got my vote.
Yeah, I'm about to start rooting for the White Walkers too. At least they aren't total fucking cunts.
For a moment I really thought Ser Alliser Thorne would not open the gate. Actually, it seems that there are very few occasions where the worst choice doesn't happen. Yay
So scenario: Stannis makes it through and reaches Sansa but Bolton the Invincible is on his heels and Stannis is about an hour away from imminent death. What is to stop him from sacrificing Sansa? Also, kind of ironic how 50 men can't defend the wall worth shit from a trickle of wildlings yet 20 men can bring down a genius military commander. Everything about Ramsey is stupid and used as plot armor. So annoying.
Unfair comparison. Stannis' camp was attacked by night, and wasn't "brought down", just put them in an even worse position than they already were in.
Spoilers. And some book spoilers, too. Jon – Assuming Jon's betrayed by the Night's Watch as his final scene this season and he dies and is later resurrected as many book readers have theorized, he'll have fulfilled his oath to the Night's Watch. "And now his Watch is ended." Should he indeed be resurrected as Azor Ahai, he'll no longer be bound by his oath to the Night's Watch, and he'll be free to do as he pleases. But I don't think he'll sit the Iron Throne. Sansa – I'm becoming increasingly tired of people claiming all Sansa's good for is being the victim. Yes, that's how her story's playing out, but if you think outside the box and look at the big picture, it's taken a tremendous amount of personal strength and will for her to deal with all she's dealt with. She didn't want to return to Winterfell or be married to Ramsay, it's true, but once she learned that "the North remembers," it strengthened her resolve for whatever she'd have to endure. She's not weak character and not looking past what's being physically portrayed on screen is pretty silly. Davos – No. Just, no. There's absolutely zero chance that Davos ever sits the Iron Throne, assuming there's even a slight, remote chance that he'd even want to sit the Iron Throne. Sure, Davos might be a competent diplomat thanks to his smuggling days, but he's not a military commander, not even remotely. Let's assuming Davos somehow deposes Stannis for sacrificing Shireen. Neat. Stannis' men have no cause to follow Davos, and Davos doesn't know how to lead. Davos has zero leverage to take the Iron Throne. Bran – A lot of people keep thinking Bran's going to be fighting on the Others' side, but that makes no sense. The Children of the Forest fought the Others for thousands of years; why would they be on their side now? That doesn't make any sense. But you're right: Bran will never sit the Iron Throne, and I don't think he's got any desire to do so. He's going to have a ridiculously important part to play in the future, though, you can bet on that. Arya – Not a chance. Arya doesn't care about the Iron Throne. She's going to make sure her list is cleared (even though she won't take all the names off it herself). After that, who the hell knows where her story's going to go? But she won't be on the Iron Throne. Rickon – I'm kind of hoping Davos finds out about Bran and Rickon's survival somehow, and I'm hoping he travels to Skagos to retrieve Rickon, as he's going to do in The Winds of Winter. However, Rickon won't sit the Iron Throne, either. The North wants to be independent once again; if anything, he'd become the King in the North, assuming the North secedes from the Seven Kingdoms again (as they did at the beginning of the War of the Five Kings). Others – The least evil? How the hell do you consider murdering thousands of Wildlings the least evil? ? ? ? The Boltons don't know how many people are involved in this "North remembers" plot involving Brienne and the candle. As far as they know, it was an isolated incident. They won't sacrifice Sansa because they won't want to risk losing the support of the Northern lords, assuming they've even got their support. The whole reason the Boltons brought Sansa in (via Littlefinger's machinations) was to secure their hold on the North by having a Stark in Winterfell. Sacrificing her makes zero sense. Alright. I misread what you'd posted. OK, spoilers: I'm going to assume one of the Boltons will die next week, based on Melisandre's sacrificing of Shireen. My guess is that it's going to be Roose who dies, and the Bolton men won't follow Ramsay as they followed Roose. That'll ruin the Boltons' chance of holding Winterfell against Stannis, no matter the fact that they've got more numbers than Stannis. Stannis won't sacrifice Sansa because that makes zero sense. She doesn't have kings' blood in her; Eddard wasn't King in the North, his son was, and Robb isn't Sansa's father. From what I've been able to tell, only a direct descendant of a king (i.e. Robert -> Gendry) works in Melisandre's sacrificial ritual. Plus, why in the hell would Stannis sacrifice the only remaining Stark (as far as he knows), after he'd just captured Winterfell? He needs the support of the Northern lords; sacrificing Sansa makes zero sense, especially after Jon turned down Stannis' offer to be legitimized and installed as Lord of Winterfell and Warden of the North. He's now going to bestow that upon Sansa, if everything works out, and she'll become the Lady of Winterfell and Warden of the North... and, perhaps eventually, the Queen in the North. As far as your second comment is concerned: What? Spoilers: There are far more than fifty men on the Wall; you just don't see them all the time (that'd be absurd). There were also hundreds of Wildings, but they, too, just weren't all shown. They defended the Wall quite well, all things considered, regardless of their losses. Ramsay purposefully asked his father for twenty of his best men, men who know the North far better than Stannis and any of his men. That was the entire point of the scene. They got in quietly and got out quietly while sowing discord in Stannis' camp. They didn't bring his camp down, though, but merely weakened it a bit, which is what finally lead to Stannis deciding to sacrifice Shireen. Ramsay's going to get his comeuppance, just like Joffrey did; they showrunners built Joffrey up and made it seem like he'd be around for the long haul (for non-book-readers) and just when you finally thought he'd never go away, they killed him. The same thing's happening with Ramsay; they're building him up and making it seem like nothing bad will happen to him despite how lecherous and despicable he's been, but he'll get what's coming to him. edit — MASSIVE SPOILERS. DON'T READ UNLESS YOU'RE CRAZY. Also, to all the people blaiming D&D, the showrunners confirmed that it was Martin's idea to have Shireen sacrificed. Apparently, it's a scene from The Winds of Winter, but it'll play out significantly differently in the book itself. And since Melisandre, who along with Selyse and Shireen, remain at the Wall while Stannis marches south, it's very obvious that Shireen will be sacrificed to bring Jon Snow back from the dead, possibly as Azor Ahai.
Don't have time to read all of your post right now, I skimmed through it. You can relax, my posts were mostly jokes from a show watchers perspective only. Stop forgetting I've read the books, I know all the arguments you're making @Your last spoiler from the book. Same disclaimer. Don't look. There was no doubt of that happening. It's been set up for a long long time. The circumstances in that it happens will be drastically different. I think the show has created a major display of character assassination. There has been absolutely nothing at all to suggest Selyse cared anything about Shireen, in fact she think that she is a curse from God and has been sent to her as a punishment. She has always wanted to give Stannis a son. Also Stannis has always cared about his legacy and duty above all else and even says several times if he does not succeed he needs Shireen to succeed him. You've said you haven't read any of the TWOW preview chapters so I can't really say anything though. OR IF YOU WANT ... TWOW SPOILER: Currently, Stannis is alive. He has Asha and Theon captive. --- I expect Stannis to burn Theon but I don't expect Stannis to burn Shireen in TWOW, because he's nowhere near the Wall where Mel and Selyse are. I expect Mel to do it of her own accord in reaction to the red letter without Stannis's consent or knowledge. Stannis will be pissed when he discovers what she's done. Also a King without an heir is a really fucking stupid idea. For ages heirs have been the most important thing in monarchies because they're extremely reliant on lineage. Without an heir, Stannis is doomed no matter what because people don't just follow Kings, they follow their legacy in both past and future. Also, I've never liked Stannis. Not in the show or in the book. I've simply tolerated that I wouldn't be really upset if he took the throne. P.S. What makes you think the White Walkers didn't have a good reason to kill so many people. It could be the ends justify the means. Sure it seems like a tough pill to swallow but there could a scenario where that makes sense. What if by what they've done they're saving more lives in the end? We don't know anything about them at all except they're hard to kill. GRRM has never been about that black and white shit, and I surpremely doubt that's what the White Walkers purpose is, to be just the epitome of evil.
I apologize. I didn't intend for my post to come across so harsh. I'm just really passionate about the series, both the books and the show, that's all. Re: The Winds of Winter spoilers (don't read these unless you're a glutton for punishment) No, I haven't read any of the chapters, but I've got a basic understanding of what's been published and revealed so far. I agree that I think Melisandre's going to sacrifice Shireen without Stannis's consent; I think that's a huge reason why Martin decided to leave Selyse and Shireen at the Wall while Stannis marched south. When Stannis finds out, I think Melisandre's going to manipulate him into believing it was Selyse's idea, and Stannis will punish Selyse by having her hung (or something similar). That'll leave Stannis open to taking another bride and, potentially, fathering a true heir with another woman. I think he'll still punish Melisandre for sacrificing Shireen, but he won't kill her, because he'll remember everything he's done for him up to this point. Depending upon whether or not Jon's resurrected as Azor Ahai, I think Melisandre will also hide that fact from Stannis (if Jon is Azor Ahai) and she'll manipulate Stannis even more, to the point where she'll end up sacrificing Stannis for some reason, too. What reason, I don't know, but I can see it happening. I've been on #TeamStannis from the beginning (and I still am) but I don't think he'll live long enough to sit the Iron Throne. As far as the Others are concerned, their war with the Children of the Forest (and later the Children and the First Men) was very clearly a "good-versus-evil" scenario, but Martin's never made it clear which side was "good" and which side was "evil." (There are obviously some grey elements to the entire conflict as well, but people who argue that Martin doesn't have any clear "good-versus-evil" scenarios need to remember that not everything he's written can be ascribed to being non-"good-versus-evil," if that makes any sense.) My argument was that killing Wildlings in itself, regardless of intent, is an inherently evil act; taking someone's life is evil no matter what. That's why I feel that, while what Stannis did was necessary (in the show), it was still an evil act and will doom him eventually, I think.
Good thing we spent like a whole season developing the unsullied and they turn out to be completely worthless warriors on multiple occasions. What a waste of time. My ideal way the last scene in the fighting pits would have played out is Dany orders Drogon to burn everything to the ground, including her. She emerges from the fire unharmed obviously and goes back to the temple to pick up Tyrion who stayed home because he didn't want to spend his leisure time watching more people die. The two of them fly off and that whole plot line is done.
I so agree about the Unsullied thing. Every time they fight they get their ass handed to them. So fricking annoying. In fact that whole fighting pit thing was poorly executed. How is it that a tiny spear penetrate the thick dragon skin? So much for building up the dragons to be one of the biggest threats in the series. I'm sure the Herpy's would've ended up slaying that thing if Khaleesi didn't flee. My most hated part of the whole season is the Dorne arc. And last week that just hit the rock bottom.
Pretty sure the giants were harder to hurt than Drogon. Such a dumb sequence to finish off the episode. The Herpes are basically god moding game of thrones. Can take out unsullied at like a 1:1 ratio and could kill a dragon with like 20 men.
The Dorne plot, for me, was interesting to watch. The entire last episode didn't have one tiring scene.
Yeah, last episode's final sequence wasn't nearly as good as it could've been. I completely agree with the Unsullied and how they're portrayed to be so weak, even though they were basically built up to be this unstoppable force. Sure, they were never gonna be that, and showing them being killed off shows how big of a threat the Sons are, but in doing that, they overpowered the Sons. Drogon being hurt by the spears also is pretty stupid, as mentioned before. The ambush itself was exciting but everything after it was pretty tame.
What's dumb is how Jorah didn't die. That choreography was horrible, there were a lot of moments where the enemies had a chance to openly attack. Plot armor shit. I've seen a lot of people mention that he touched Dany and speculate he infected her though. Didn't he only touch her with his right hand and he's infected on his left so... I doubt that amounts to anything.
I can't quite remember from the books but I believe you've got to touch the actual greyscale itself. Otherwise Stannis and Selyse and Melisandre and scores of others would also be infected from touching Shireen.
@Will Stannis had maesters, priests, shit load of other so called remedies to try to cure Shireen and to stop her illness. It can't be known if that had anything to do with her not infecting anyone via touch. Jorah has had nothing and has done nothing to rid himself of it.
The finale needs to be completely epic or this season was pretty much a failure. Last season blew it out of the water.