I agree with what you said in your first and last points. Although it is hard to say APC is prog when Dream Theater is also prog, the genre I guess is very vast because the two bands don't sound alike. Tool is also labeled prog. I would say instrumentally, they have a lot of progressive influences, but Undertow and Aenima don't fit as well into that genre. I agree with what you said about In Flames and how every new hard rock act, not hardcore act, that comes out today is labeled nu-metal. I would only fit Godsmack into the nu-metal genre because I can't necessarily compare them to metal bands such as Metallica, Dream Theater, etc. However, I like how Godsmack does have some talent and does have some metal influences, mainly their spotty guitar solos. Evanescence is not a nu-metal band either, and if they were, Lacuna Coil would have to be a nu-metal band, which is not true. I apologize for the double post, sorry :wth:
Will, com'n, you obviously compltely misread what I said. I was making a statement that Sevendust was metal. Godsmack and Disturbed are both metal, too, though they're popular. Staind used to be metal with their demos and their first album -- you're obviously not a fan, if you've never heard their demos. Also, I stated that Sevendust was on Headbanger's Ball and Uranium and that most websites classify them as metal. Please, Will, tell me some bands that have been rock off of Uranium. Any band. Any band at all. Can't name one? Didn't think so. Come back to me when you do, which will be never. Please, if you think Mudvayne is heavy metal you're absolutely crazy. Go listen to some Emperor or Cradle Of Filth and then tell me that Mudvayne is "heavy metal". Hell, even Slipknot is heavier than Mudvayne. Rammstein, too. Couldn't you list a better mainstream metal band if you're only going to speak of mainstream metal? Yet again, a complete misunderstanding of what I was saying. I said I've heard Hoobastank and Default being called nu-metal. I never said they were. If you'll read my posts after that, you will understand that I stated these things for a response, which quite obviously it evoked, but from the wrong person entirely. And, please, Taproot hard rock? Taproot is grunge, my friend. Not hard rock. And Breaking Benjamin is not heavy or hard at all. They're just plain rock. Ask them in person and they'll tell you they're rock. Ask Taproot in person and they'll tell you that they're grunge. Go listen to Gift. It's more of an indie/grunge album than "hard rock". Please, re-read my posts in their entirety.
It's not even a genre to begin with so I don't really care whether it's dying or not. A lot of bands since have fused rock with rap and electronic, and if people want to label it "nu-metal" then so be it. :wth: Metal is so diverse, with so many subgenres that it'd be headache-inducing to classify each and every band with precision and care. Opinions are SO gonna differ on this. I mean, Slipknot might seem like hardcore metal to one person and complete pop to another. The labels have no other purpose other than to tell people what they should expect to hear. Just my two cents. :wth: IMO, Taproot is anything but grunge.
First off, I'm a fan of Staind. Just because I haven't heard their older demos does not mean I'm not a fan. I've heard their first two albums, and they're hardly metal. Yes, they're heavy, but they're not metal. Second, I don't even know what the hell Uranium is. I'm guessing it's a Fuse show, though. Sevendust is not metal. So before you come off as a sarcastic smartass again, I'd suggest you don't assume I know what everything is, okay? Come back to me when you understand that, which will be never. Also, I never said Mudvayne is heavy metal. If you would learn to read my posts, you'd see I said they were straight-up metal, not heavy metal. Oh, my. Did the mighty enfestid read something wrong? Oh, my. He did! What's wrong with the world? Instead of saying things just to get a response, don't quote other people. Use your own opinions instead of using the opinions of other people. Trying to get a rise out of someone on these forums is most certainly not a good idea and will just get you hated by everyone here really, really fast. I suggest you learn that in the next few weeks. And Breaking Benjamin, a lot of artists say they're one thing in person when they're really not. Their debut album is heavier than any plain rock band I listen to tenfold. Even their second album is heavier than those bands, though not as much as their debut. And how the hell is Taproot grunge? They sound nothing like Nirvana or Puddle Of Mudd, et al. Like Radical Dreamer said, Taproot is anything but grunge. They're hard rock. I don't think you have any idea what the hell you're on about. Please, don't be a smartass anymore, lest you be warned.
You want me to treat you with respect after your past posts in this topic and others towards me? You want me to not be sarcastic towards you? Will, get real, man. Look at your posts in this topic towards me. They are laced with sarcasm. If you would have not been such a jerk with your first post I would not have resorted to sarcasm. Please, if you want something then earn it. I'm not going to treat you any different than anyone else, whether you're an admin or not. I'm going to follow your rules, yes, but I'm not going to treat you with respect if you don't respect me and the other people on this board. I don't care if I'm hated. I can be hated here all I want. It's a message board about Linkin Park. Linkin-freaking-Park! Do you honestly think I care if people hate me or not? No, I do not. I'll follow the rules here and make my own posts on what I think they should be on, going from the rules. Secondly, Will, if you haven't heard the Staind demos then how on Earth can you tell me that they were not metal? You never heard the early material! Their second album was hardly metal, no, but their first was borderline. I can see why someone would say that it's not metal, but it could just as easily be classified as metal. And, yes, Uranium is a Fuse show. If you don't know what it is then just ask. You ignored it in your first reply to my post, so I brought it up again, assuming that you knew about it. Most people do, sorry if I "offended" you somehow with that And, I understand that. Please do not resort to cheap shots, bud, unless you can back them up. Considering that was the first time I've made that mistake, I'd love to know how you could say that. It was obviously a poor attempt at sarcasm (What's that... SARCASM?! Will would never do such a thing, of course not! Only I do sarcasm, DUH! Me being the rude person I am). Yet again, more sarcasm. Will, you certainly are the hypocrite, are you not? You want me to not post "smartass sarcasm" towards you when almost every post you make here includes sarcasm of some form? Please. Wow, I made a mistake. Get your panties out of a knot, everyone makes mistakes. I do use my own opinions. If you don't like me quoting people, then get over it. I've broken no rule by quoting others. Obviously I formulate my own opinions and post them. If I disagree with something someone has said, I'll speak my mind. That's the whole point of a debate. Ask Taproot themselves how they're grunge. They'll tell you that they classify themselves as "post grunge", which is basically the new grunge era. I asked them before Gift came out when I still lived in Michigan, and they said they'd classify themself as grunge. I think I have all the ####### idea what I'm talking about. You classify your genres however the hell you want, I'll classify mine the way I want. That was my whole point in the beginning of this thread -- nu-metal encompasses such a wide variety of artists that there's no way everyone's going to agree upon who is nu-metal and who is not. Please, Will, do not insult me. If you're going to make rules you should at least make members follow by your example. ($20 says this post gets me warned or banned )
Why would I ban you? You broke no rules. Nothing you did even merits a warning. Anyway, I never said you had to respect me. Just because I'm an admin doesn't mean a thing. You don't have to respect me at all. I don't really care. The only reason I laced my post with sarcasm was in a crude attempt to be funny, after you attempted to use sarcasm to get people to reply to you. You're allowed to not care if people hate you or not. I could really care less. My point is that there would be less posts like this if you wouldn't try to get a rise out of people. That's all I meant. Posting things you don't actually mean just to get people to reply is pretty immature. That's just how I feel, anyway. Next, I said Staind's first two albums weren't metal, not their demos. I've never heard their demos to say that're not metal. You put words into my mouth, and I don't like that. In my opinion, I don't feel that Torment or Dysfunction were metal. They just weren't heavy enough to be classified that way. Again, my opinion. You didn't offend me by assuming I knew what Uranium was. I've never heard of it, yet you assumed I had by suggesting I think of a band that "hasn't been metal" on that show, and then going off saying I wouldn't be able to. Damn right, I wouldn't be able to. Why? Because I've never seen the show, nor do I have Fuse. And my point about forming your own opinions was to not quote other people. By saying "I think [insert band] is [insert genre] because [insert magazine] said so," you're not really using your own opinion. (That was an example, by the way. I know you never said that.) Again, bands always classify themselves different from what they really are. Taproot is not grunge in the slightest suggestion of the genre. They don't sound a thing like Nirvana and Nirvana is grunge. They have a very indie sound, yes, but indie does not equal grunge. I meant you don't know what you're on about because of the way you're classifying things. Taproot in the same genre as Nirvana? That just doesn't make any sense. They don't sound anything alike. That's what I meant by that.
So would you say that Alice In Chains and Pearl Jam are grunge, or not? Because a lot of the riffs in Taproot's music sound extremely similar to grunge. To say that they're a far cry from grunge is quite an exaggeration -- like I've said, I've talked to them myself (albeit a long, long time ago) and they classified themselves as post-grunge. I'm not quite sure how you can say they sound nothing like grunge. I can understand saying they're not grunge, but nothing like grunge? Just search the internet for "Taproot Grunge" or something, I'm sure there will be results for that and why people think Taproot are grunge or why not. But you'll notice that people do talk about it -- if they're nothing like grunge at all, then why would people talk about grunge? I don't think that Slipknot and Emperor sound anything alike, but they're both metal. You can't go off the most popular band in a genre and say "every band in the genre has to sound like this band". Nirvana was the most popular, but they weren't the only grunge band out there. They inspired many copy-cat bands... and, yes, they're grunge too, but that doesn't mean they're the only ones. EDIT: Here is a bio from a site that ripped it from Taproot's official site a while back... they're rebuilding the Taproot site right now: http://www.tartareandesire.com/bands/taproot.html
I've never heard Alice In Chains or Pearl Jam to say if they're grunge or not. I'm basing my opinion that Taproot aren't grunge on the two most popular grunge bands that I've heard (not including Alice In Chains or Pearl Jam, because I know they're popular), which are Nirvana and Puddle Of Mudd. In my opinion, I don't think Taproot sounds anything like either of those two. Again, I've never heard AIC or PJ to say if they sound like them or not. And, like I said, it's my opinion that they sound nothing like grunge music. Other people can say they sound like grunge, I don't really care. It's my opinion that they don't. [edit] Like I said, a lot of bands classify themselves as one thing, and that will eventually lead the media and that band's fans to classify them the same way. I never listen to those people, though, and I classify bands how I want.
See, just as I told you -- nu-metal encompasses too many bands to be a real genre. I don't believe in it as a genre, plain and simple. There are so many bands you can say are "nu-metal" because there is no definition of the genre.
Does anyone else think that arguing about weather or not a band is "metal" or "nu-metal" or any goddamn genre is kind of pointless? Music is music, we all take things different ways. A discussion is one thing, but arguing about musical classification just gets pointlessly nasty.
Rock is Rock, music is put into groups far too much without it going further when people split up groups into smaller group and smaller groups. After a while it becomes silly.