More Impt: Tell us what you think

Discussion in 'Feedback & FAQ' started by Omar, Feb 27, 2008.

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  1. esaul17

    esaul17 antichrist

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    And the fact that this rule us enforced on a badly run website hardly is evidence SUPPORTING this rule, and if anything is the opposite.
     
  2. Louis

    Louis Message me if you need to talk. We love you all. LPA Team

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    esaul17:

    I can see where you're coming from with your argument. However, people aren't going to take you seriously if you word everything in such a way that is to make it seem like an attack on this forum. If anything, it counters your argument because it lacks reason.

    But here's what I have to say to your reaction: Like I talked about with Chris, it all depends on who you ask. Some people might not think that the word 'gay' is offensive, or that the word 'retard' is offensive. In your case, you don't believe 'retard' is offensive. You believe it does mean the same as 'stupid'. That's not true.

    Stupid is a derogatory term. Although it's not taken as offensive, it's still a put-down term. All it takes is saying that it is synonymous with the word 'retard' to completely contradict the point you're trying to make. It's making the word 'retard' be offensive. Retard does mean slow-moving and not fully developed, but it doesn't mean that a person is stupid. Mentally challenged people can't help their behavior. Stupid people can, but choose not to. They are not synonymous.

    And you may not think it's offensive at all, but you should talk to my 8th grade teacher who has a retarded child. Perhaps you'll see then why 'retard' is being restricted on these forums. It hurts people and offends them. You may not think they have any justification, but if it hurts someone, the lack of justification behind their hurt gives you no right to continue hurting them.

    This forum has had its moments where it seems that their actions have been on a surge of power, but this issue is solely based on stability and credibility. Part of the reason why this board is likable is because doesn't sound like an elementary or middle school environment. There are people of different ages on this board but the good majority actually make valid statements and sound at least half-way intelligent.

    The board doesn't force people to sound intelligent and to sound like 30 year olds, and there are still people who behave like children on this board. But notice that the people who do at least behave within reason. And those who don't are warned or banned.

    Saying 'gay' or 'retard' to imply that something is lame or stupid is simply offensive to people, and just because you don't think one or both of those words isn't offensive, doesn't mean that other people think the same as you. You of all people, considering your argument, should be a bit more open-minded about that.
     
  3. Chris

    Chris LPA Addict LPA Addict

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    The family thing? :lol: I never said anything about a family :p
     
  4. Derek

    Derek LPAssociation.com Administrator LPA Administrator

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    So in your mindset esaul17, we should technically allow the N word since the form of it without two G's signifies the color brown in other languages and is not a racist epitaph in some countries?

    Or that we should allow posting of a swastika symbol because it's original connotation was not with the Nazi's and it was just a symbol that Hitler stole in order to use it for his own sadistic intentions?

    Or that (even better) we should not be offended or stunned ourselves by your attempts to accuse a forum staff of being totalitarian or fundamentalist, due to us enforcing rules that you AGREED TO FOLLOW upon originally signing up for these forums in the first place?

    Those rules are not just there to look pretty. They are the policies and procedures that we established when these forums first began, and they were crafted with the intention of helping to maintain a peaceful and conducive forum environment.

    Honestly, using the words 'gay' or 'retarded' in a negative sense, only manages to impugn your intelligence, and with your very well constructed (and intelligently worded) responses, you should have no qualms in finding alternate words to use because such words are purely juvenile.

    As 'totalitarian' as this sounds: Get over it. This is an internet forum and to view us almost like a government is absolutely nonsensical at best, and if that's the way you think..then you (and a few other people on these forums) are in dire need of a reality check.

    I apologize if you feel Mark has acted harshly, but I will have to agree with him on a couple of things.
     
  5. Mark

    Mark Canadian Beauty LPA Administrator

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    I've been patient enough to reply to you and your brothers posts on this topic numerous times with well-thought out points that have yet to be properly refuted. Excuse me for being exasperated that I'm talking in circles with you guys.

    Taking "your argument stinks" as an insult is kind of funny considering you're sticking up for the insults "gay" and "retarded" to be used.

    I'm sorry, but there's more prominent and useful things to be complaining about than this. It's a complete waste of time.

    This is the last I'll be saying about this. Continue to lament about something that's not going to change if you wish. I refuse to waste my time any further.
     
  6. Chris

    Chris LPA Addict LPA Addict

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    Actually that wasnt my brother, just a friend who lives down the street.

    I dont know how guys can imply that I want the rule changed. I asked why you can insult a religion and not use the words gay and retard. Whats so difficult about that? None of the staff answered the question in a kind way.

    Too bad.

    Im done with it actually. No wonder..
     
  7. esaul17

    esaul17 antichrist

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    @Derek:

    We're in general an English speaking board, and I was under the impression we were in general supposed to use the English language. So just because a word means something different in another language is irrelevant.

    I don't see a problem with posting a Swastika unless you are doing it to try to compare another member or something to a Nazi. I see no problem linking to pictures including that on them, as long as it is done with a purpose (just plastering it in your sig to be an ass shouldn't be allowed of course).

    We agreed to follow he rules, I admit to that. But it doesn't mean I have to AGREE with the rules. And I figured this was the correct place to discuss such things. If someone makes a feedback forum, then says "you already agreed to these rules, don't complain about them!" it seems to defeat the purpose. I was trying to implore you to CONSIDER other points of view. To hold an opinion despite and ignore any opposing arguments is the definition of fundamentalism. It doesn't matter that I AGREED tot he rule upon joining, it still makes your stance upon it fundamentalist.

    I mean, if you feel you own this place and you wish to exercise your right to hold some fundamentalist rules in place on it to suit your personal tastes that is fully within your right, and (in the case of this rule) I honestly don't care either way. I just disagree with the mindset behind it.

    @Louis:

    It is true that people may choose to act stupidly, but people don't choose to BE stupid. I mean, outside of an odd scenario where they opted for a lobotomy or something. Your environment and genetic makeup will shape who you are, and most of this is not a choice. I mean, you may say that someone may opt to not be educated, but such a thing is really not relevant to the context here. Some people are just naturally smarter than others. Being retarded means lacking mental development (when referring to a person), which has obvious overlaps with someone who is stupid, and is mainly different in severity. A retarded person is pretty much always going to be stupid (although in some cases like autism they have a narrow corridor of genius it seems, but overall they are still inept). The difference between that and a "stupid" person is that the retarded person is just really, really stupid, so much so that they are in their own category. Now don't confuse a stupid person with an intelligent person who just feels like acting like an idiot. I mean someone who, despite there efforts, has a lot harder time grasping concepts or the like than your average person. Their brain is somewhat inefficient, and they can't help it. A retard's brain is just REALLY inefficient, and again they can't help it.

    I personally see both stupid and retarded as put downs, with one just being an extreme and specific subset of the other. Being retarded IS a bad thing (unlike being gay), and therefore people shouldn't be upset when we use a put down word in it's literal meaning to put down some system or music or whatever.

    My point is that it is irrational to take offense to the sentence "Christianity is retarded" on behalf of retards in that same way that it would be irrational to take offense to the sentence "Christianity is stupid" on behalf of stupid people. You can't take some random word, say you are offended by it for no good reason, then expect everyone else to stop using it (I mean, you can expect them not to use it on your forum or whatever of course, but I mean in general).

    I could say the word "the" offends me and my entire social circle because "the" often comes right before words like "rapist" and "Nazi", so every time I hear it I think of someone saying "...the Nazi..." and get deeply offended. My reason for beign offended would be ridiculous though, and if this offended me I would have to suck it up.





    I guess all I am really wondering from Derek and Louis is WHY the word "retarded" should be seen as offensive to retards (when used in reference to something else) anymore than a stupid person should be offended when you call Capitalism stupid or an ugly person should be offended when you call the Mona Lisa ugly. I was wanted you to justify being offended, or admit taking offense is irrational.

    EDIT: On revision I agree that using retarded as a put down in certain ways is false. If you call a person "retarded" because they were evil, then I agree this is an incorrect thing to say. Just like if you called someone ugly for being evil. In both cases you are broadening the context of the original putdown, making it seem even more severe (AKA: making ugly mean physically repulsive and morally reprehensible). I am asking why it is wrong to use retarded as a putdown when the criteria meets the definition of the word of course. If you use the word incorrectly you will simply look like an idiot and possibly offend people, so that should be banned.

    @ Chris(T)
    I was referring to a post made by another Christ (Screen name Seinfeld), sorry.
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2008
  8. Dedicated

    Dedicated LPA Addict LPA Addict

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    I think the rule is silly but I can also see that they're not gonna change it.


    Just leave it at that, arguing's not getting anyone anywhere :p
     
  9. esaul17

    esaul17 antichrist

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    lol, I have just wondered for a while WHY people got offended by such a thing. Since Derek, Louis, and the LPA in general seemed rather intelligent, and since the LPA staff seemed very attached to the rule, I figured maybe they could elucidate their reasoning behind being offended (or admit that it is just some irrational feeling they can't help having).
     
  10. Chris.

    Chris. LPA Super Member Über Member

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    Retarded is not a synonym for stupid.

    re·tard·ed (rĭ-tär'dĭd) Pronunciation Key
    adj.
    Often Offensive Affected with mental retardation.
    Occurring or developing later than desired or expected; delayed

    Straight from the dictionary, it even says "Often Offensive". Stupid and Retarded are not the same thing, which is why when used in that context, it can be offensive. Stupid can be offensive if you are calling the person stupid but it's not as bad as calling someone retarded.
     
  11. esaul17

    esaul17 antichrist

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    Well, I would consider someone who has mental retardation to likely be a rather stupid individual, and that a really stupid person would have some form of (permanently?) delayed brain development.
     
  12. Chris.

    Chris. LPA Super Member Über Member

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    Some people who are mentally handicapped can actually be quite smart.
     
  13. Luke

    Luke Mind Your Manners. LPA Addicted VIP

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    There's no point continuously trying to argue your point. The staff have given you a reply to your argument and, although you or any others might not agree with it, that is their decision end of.

    I think it's ridiculous that people can get warned for saying those remarks without a hint of malice towards any particular individual like I did once before, but those are the rules like them or not. If I can accept that then you can too.
     
  14. esaul17

    esaul17 antichrist

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    I would consider that probably at least a rarity. And even if that is the case, they are not intelligent insofar as they are retards. They may be intelligent DESPITE their retardation, but it is not the source of their intelligence. The part of them which is retarded is almost certainly made stupider (outside of rare cases of autism in which the individual often has one amazing talent. But as I said before, outside of that one talent, they are overall quite inept).

    I realize this. I just wish to understand the reasoning behind the staff and their supporters in this issue. It genuinely interests me.
     
  15. Chris.

    Chris. LPA Super Member Über Member

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    My girlfriend's aunt and uncle are mentally handicapped but live completely on their own. They do everything people who are normally developed do and even drive well. You can tell they are mentally handicapped, but they are by no means stupid. Nor is any part of them stupid.
     
  16. esaul17

    esaul17 antichrist

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    Maybe the end of this should be moved to serious chat or something. I am not really fighting about the rule being implemented, I've already stated my opinions toward fundamentalism, I just now wish to discuss the reasoning behind taking offense to the word "retarded" in certain contexts, and to evaluate whether or not it is sound.

    So if a mod sees it fit, I would be fine with moving this to serious chat.

    Okay, in which way are they mentally retarded then? Just curious, what causes them to fall into the category of "retards"?
     
  17. Chris.

    Chris. LPA Super Member Über Member

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    A development problem in the brain, like most. They are on medication which helps them and with that, they are able to perform everyday functions. They aren't entirely handicapped, like some people are, but handicapped enough to be called handicapped. Her aunt had a stroke during birth, which caused her mental retardation.
     
  18. esaul17

    esaul17 antichrist

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    I am just wondering what does this retardation cause. If we were to assume for some reason they were not allowed their medication, what effects would we see in them which we would not see in "normal" people?
     
  19. Chris.

    Chris. LPA Super Member Über Member

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    I've never asked.
     
  20. esaul17

    esaul17 antichrist

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    Okay, fair enough. It makes them rather irrelevant to this discussion though.

    What my case is is that the things that cause people to be classified as "retarded" are generally stupid things, While a retarded person may have a plethora of non-retarded, non-stupid aspects to them, the pieces that make them retards are themselves stupid.
     
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