Marvel's Netflix Universe

Discussion in 'The Living Room' started by The Joesen One, Mar 30, 2015.

  1. #21
    Gibs

    Gibs The Prog Nerd Über Member

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    That sequence in the rain in the first episode was shot gorgeously! I can definitely see the Hannibal comparison there, as it reminded me of this (amongst other things):

    [​IMG]
     
  2. #22
    Will

    Will bread crumbs & white stones LPA Addicted VIP

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    Holy fucking shit.
     
  3. #23
    Jesse

    Jesse Out of the abyss. LPA Über VIP

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    Exactly what I said at the end of episode 8.
     
  4. #24
    Gibs

    Gibs The Prog Nerd Über Member

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    I said that at the end of episode 4! Onto episode 6. :CUMULUS:
     
  5. #25
    The Joesen One

    The Joesen One Fun-employed LPA Super Member

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    two questions:

    Which episode shows the beheading via car door that I read in the previews?

    Is Kingpin as good/a better villain than Loki?
     
  6. #26
    Gibs

    Gibs The Prog Nerd Über Member

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    Episode 4

    Yes, and no. I'm only on episode 7, but so far, Wilson Fisk is very well developed, he doesn't feel very one-dimensional like most MCU villians. The only problem I have with him is that Vincent D'Onofrio's line delivery can be awkward at times, as great as he plays the part. :lol:
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2015
  7. #27
    Jesse

    Jesse Out of the abyss. LPA Über VIP

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    Fisk is the best MCU villain BY FAR imho.

    *GENERAL SPOILERS and mini review in spoiler tag below.*

    It's great how Matt actually gets hurt and takes his losses and they really affect him and keep him down for long stretches instead of him just getting up and being magically alright all the time, or being completely healed in the next episode without regard to the story or his previous experiences. And I like how the bad guys keep getting back up and don't just go down in one hit, they're all actually threatening and powerful instead of seeming like typical punching bags. Matt has to work to keep them down and it's not easy. The fights are very well choreographed and downright bloody/gory/impactful on all sides. There isn't really any "bad guys" that seem like complete mustache twirling morons, who are too dumb to piece anything together, even villains working against each other is smarter than most tv shows. This is really refreshing compared to the other super hero shows on Network television.
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2015
  8. #28
    Kevin

    Kevin A Pattern To Be Followed. LPA Administrator

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    Done.

    Loved it.
     
  9. #29
    Jesse

    Jesse Out of the abyss. LPA Über VIP

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    Finally finished. Bravo Netflix/Marvel. Good job!

    Now I can't wait for AKA Jessica Jones, if it's as good as this, Oh my.
     
  10. #30
    Will

    Will bread crumbs & white stones LPA Addicted VIP

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    Daredevil's my favorite entry into the MCU so far. I loved everything about it: the acting was top-notch (Charlie Cox, Deborah Ann Woll, and Vincent D'Onofrio in particular); the fight choreography was incredible (the single-take hallway fight scene from episode two was amazing); the story was great (although I felt like it could've moved a little faster, personally); and all the references to other series were the icing on the cake (I'll explain those below).

    Spoilers, obviously, starting with the first episode. (Yes, I took notes.)

    The mentions of the "incident" are clear and obvious references to the Battle of New York from The Avengers, establishing the time frame for the series as taking place shortly after the movie. This is later confirmed when we learn Ben Urich wrote about the battle for the New York Bulletin.

    Speaking of the "incident," unless I missed it every single time (and I was looking for it every single time), I didn't see Stark/Avengers Tower in the background skyline shots at all. I find it hard to believe they forgot to put it into the shots (there really weren't all that many of them), or they shot the scenes in such a way as to not have to put Stark Tower in the shots (obscuring it with other buildings). Since we know this is post-Avengers, the tower should be in the skyline.

    Matt's priest, Father Lantom (I think that's how his name was spelled), is a minor character from the Runaways comics series, which was slated to get its own movie in 2014, but the project was later shelved. Drew Pearce submitted a Runaways treatment, but Kevin Feige decided to put Pearce on Iron Man 3 based on the strength of his Runaways script. It's rumored that the Runaways could get their own movie in Phase Four.

    Foggy says something about how all the women that Matt's been with have had questionable character. This is a pretty obvious reference to Matt's love life in the comics series, which includes Elektra and the Black Widow. In fact, Elektra's referenced more specifically in a later episode as a "smoking hot Greek chick" (or something along those lines; I don't remember the exact wording).

    We meet Leland Owlsley, who is better known as the Owl from the comics series. I think it's likely that he's going to become the Owl full-blown by the end of season two.

    The name on the side of the chemical truck is "Rand," a reference to Danny Rand's (Iron Fist) billionaire family.

    Claire Temple, the nurse who patches up Matt, is a combination character of Claire Temple and the Night Nurse. Claire Temple was an ex-wife of Luke Cage. She also references an ex she had named Mike, which is the name she chose to give Matt before he told her his real name. I believe this is a reference to Mike Peterson, Deathlok, from Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.

    Not only that, but there was a storyline in the comics series in which Matt posed as his own twin brother, Mike Murdock, who wasn't blind, just to throw people off the trail of him being Daredevil.

    The Irish gangster who forces Matt's dad to throw the fight against Carl "Crusher" Creel is known as the Fixer in the comics series.

    Speaking of "Crusher" Creel, he shows up in Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. (I believe it's the first two episodes of season two) as the Absorbing Man.

    Also, there's a poster advertising a fight involving someone named "Barton," a reference to a relative of Hawkeye, I'd imagine.

    I noticed, starting with the second episode, there are subtle references to playing cards throughout the series. Bullseye's known for using playing cards as his signature weapon. Later in the series, when the sniper shoots Detective Blake, a playing card can be seen near the sniper. I believe this sniper is Bullseye, or will eventually become Bullseye.

    I don't really have any notes for episode three, although I wrote "St. Agnes," so I think this is the episode where it's mentioned that that was the orphanage that Matt was staying at. Skye stayed at St. Agnes before she struck out on her own in Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.

    Ben Urich mentions he dug into Karen's past, which wasn't pretty. I think this is a reference to the Born Again storyline, in which Karen's past figures prominently in the plot (and which should also be the direction in which season two heads).

    This is the first reference to "Mr. Potter," who is later revealed to be Melvin Potter, a costume designer who creates Matt's suit for him at the end of season one, and who becomes the villain the Gladiator but later reforms to become one of Daredevil's staunchest supporters. I think they're going to skip the villain part and just have him become an ally of Daredevil straight-off.

    Claire mentions "billionaire playboys," an obvious reference to Tony Stark.

    Matt explains to Claire that his radar sense causes everything to look like a "world on fire." It looks similar to how it was portrayed in the original movie. I just wish they'd have kept showing it every once in a while in later episodes (especially the later episode when Matt's sprinting across rooftops).

    I noticed Karen seemed shaken when they pointed out that she can speak Spanish. I think that's part of her hidden past (admittedly, I don't know much about her past off the top of my head).

    Kingpin gives the done-to-death "we're not much different, you and I" villain-to-hero speech.

    The news organization that shows up (I think this is the first time in the series) is WHIH, which was seen in The Incredible Hulk, I believe Iron Man 2 and Iron Man 3, and Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D..

    This is the episode in which Detective Blake is shot and you can see the playing card in the sniper's bag, alluding to him possibly being Bullseye.

    Ah, Stick. I think this was my favorite episode. It details how Matt learned to fight.

    Another reference to Karen's past.

    From what I can tell, a lot of people associated with Matt (specifically that nun) seem to know something about his mother. I think this will be super-important later on, especially when you consider that Matt's dad was clearly calling Matt's mother prior to him defeating "Crusher" Creel and then being murdered. She obviously just sent Matt to live in an orphanage, St. Agnes, which, like I said before, could very well be the same orphanage that Skye stayed at. I think it's way too coincidental, at any rate, that both characters stayed at orphanages called St. Agnes. I'm convinced it's the same one.

    I don't know what "Black Sky" is but I think it's a reference to Inhumans, considering that Stick called the kid a monster (I think he called him a monster). I think this will be the plotline that runs through each Netflix miniseries before it culminates in The Defenders.

    Ben Urich puts a pin in a king of diamonds on his board. As soon as I saw it, I laughed out loud and said "KINGPIN!" I thought that was clever as hell.

    I've got no idea who the man at the end of the episode that Stick was talking to is. But in the comics series, Stick is a member of the Chaste, an off-shoot of the Hand, which is an organization dating to feudal Japan and has strong ties to Iron Fist. (I've read it's possible he was talking to Gorgon, of the Inhumans, or Stone, another character Stick trained.)

    This is the first time Melvin Potter shows up on screen. There's a "Revenge of the Gladiators" poster in his machine shop. Fucking clever.

    Speaking of Potter, the suit he's fitting Owlsley for resembles the Owl's suit from the comics series.

    Daredevil's fight against Nobu was a clear reference to the Hand, and specifically that Nobu may have been the head of the Hand.

    I noticed it seemed like Matt sort of played-up being blind when shaking Ben Urich's hand. I think this was a reference to the comics series in which Ben discovered Matt's secret identity. I also thought for sure that Ben was going to discover it in the show when he told Matt where to find the blind kids; I figured Ben would've waited there to see if he recognized anyone there as possibly being the man in the mask. Sadly, that didn't happen.

    The symbol on the heroin packets is the symbol of the Steel Serpent, an enemy of Iron Fist. In fact, I believe Ben tells Matt that the heroin is called Steel Serpent.

    Foggy blatantly mentions the smoking-hot Greek girl in a flashback. This is a clear, clear reference to Elektra Natchios, who I think is going to figure prominently in season two.

    I noticed one of Ben's stories was headlined "Terror in Harlem," a pretty obvious reference to The Incredible Hulk.

    Roxxon is mentioned here. It was also mentioned in Agent Carter and Iron Man 3 (I can't remember if it was referenced in Iron Man or Iron Man 2).

    Leland Owlsley mentions "Van Lunt," who in the comics series is a villain who goes by the name Taurus.

    Melvin Potter throws a sawblade at Matt, a reference to Gladiator's signature weapon. Potter's muse, Betsy, is a social worker who helps him deal with his criminal issues. Also, when Matt first enters the machine shop, Gladiator's logo can be seen.

    Karen asks Wesley if he thinks it's the first time she's ever shot someone, another reference to her past. I was absolutely shocked when Wesley wasn't able to bluff Karen into putting the gun down; she shot the fuck out of him. I paused the episode and just sat there for a few minutes (I'm not even exaggerating). I couldn't believe it. I was starting to really like Wesley for his loyalty and how he truly seemed like he was Fisk's friend and not just his assistant. I mean, don't get me wrong, it's a good thing he's dead, but damn.

    Matt slips up when talking to Ben Urich, using a boxing term "going the distance." I think if Ben Urich would've lived, he would've figured out that Matt's the man in the mask. Unfortunately, Kingpin murdered Ben, which means we'll never see Ben employed at The Daily Bugle in the Spider-Man movies (which I was assuming they were going to do before he was killed).

    I had my thoughts about Madame Gao when she was first introduced, but it's seems pretty clear at this point that she's Crane Mother.

    When Daredevil goes to get his new suit (which resembles his Marvel Knights suit from the comics series), there's also what seems to be an enormous pair of legs in Potter's machine shop, a reference to Stilt-Man.

    Daredevil also gets his billy club from Potter, which he uses very similarly to how Captain America uses his shield.

    Stan Lee has a cameo in a plaque in the police station when Detective Hoffman goes to turn himself in to Sergeant Black Guy.

    The company name on the side of the trucks, Summerville Department Stores, is a reference to the Punisher comics series.

    Some other thoughts I had:

    It's obvious the block the Japanese were trying to acquire has a connection to K'un L'un, possibly as the "portal" between the two worlds mentioned in Stick's conversation with that giant dude. My guess is Marvel's going to explain them all as Inhumans. So I think Madame Gao, as the Crane Mother, is the Inhuman leader of K'un L'un, and I don't think we'll see her again until the Iron Fist miniseries, where she'll be the main nemesis of Danny Rand, along with the real Steel Serpent.

    There were lots of references to Iron Fist, which is fitting given that Daredevil and Iron Fist team up occasionally in the comics, but Daredevil doesn't really team up with Jessica Jones or Luke Cage all that often (if at all, I can't remember). I didn't expect so many nods to Iron Fist so early. I mean, I expected a couple, but damn.

    I think Leland Owlsley is going to try to find a way to extend his life in season two, leading to him becoming the Owl proper. I think he's going to end up employing Bullseye, too. I think at some point Kingpin's going to break out of prison (either with help from the Owl or someone else) and there's going to be a three-way war between Kingpin, the Owl, and Daredevil.

    A lot of the series was taken from Frank Miller's run with Daredevil, and all signs point to the show evolving toward the Born Again storyline, which is especially obvious given all the allusions to Karen Page's past and her past figures very prominently in that storyline.

    It'll be interesting to see whether or not the Netflix miniseries get second or third seasons before the four characters team up proper in The Defenders.


    I don't need to spoiler this part since the look of the suit's been unveiled. It looks better in motion. I think the cowl looks a little wonky, particularly around the cheeks; I'm not sure why they made the outlines around his jaw/mouth go up like that, which is what I think makes it look weird. But I also think the reason it looks so weird in the press photos is because they're highly stylized photos.
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2015
  11. #31
    Jesse

    Jesse Out of the abyss. LPA Über VIP

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    Great job on all the catches Will!

    now a question


    About the tower, I think you can see the Met Life building where it's supposed to be... so it's kind of a continuity error, I think..

    Also Nobu's not really dead for good, right? That thing about him and the cold implies that he's part got something supernatural going on, member of The hand.

    COMIC SPOILER
    and they're associated with resurrecting people right?
    Hmm.


    And I'm not feeling the Suit. Hopefully it gets an upgrade.
     
  12. #32
    Will

    Will bread crumbs & white stones LPA Addicted VIP

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    Well I don't know anything about New York, really, and I'm not entirely sure where Avengers Tower would've even been situated in the skyline, but I don't think I saw it at all. I'm hoping I just missed it. It's weird because it's in all the promo materials.

    As for Nobu, no, I don't think he's dead, but that'll depend on what Fisk's men did with his body. If they actually left him there to burn, I'm going to guess his "soul" will make its way back to K'un L'un and he'll be resurrected.

    And a lot of people are complaining about the suit, but I think we've all got to keep in mind that it's just the first iteration of his suit. I think in the future he's going to end up with a suit made by Tony Stark and it'll be similar to Cap's suit.
     
  13. #33
    travz21

    travz21 Muscle Museum LPA Super Member

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    Watched the first episode last night. Really good. Actor playing Foggy doesn't seem to be that great. That opening credits sequence...damn. Seems like an HBO show. High quality.
     
  14. #34
    The Joesen One

    The Joesen One Fun-employed LPA Super Member

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    Whoa. How many regulars die?

    The guys who made the True Detective opening sequence also did this. :)
     
  15. #35
    Abel

    Abel Chester Bennington saved my life.

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    Just finished. Overjoyed right now. Daredevil finally got the attention and popularity he deserves. I'm an extremely happy nerd.

    Spoilers:
    Favorite parts? Way too many, but definitely Matt's interactions with Father Lantom, Kingpin squishing and decapitating Anatoly's head ("YOU EMBARRASSED ME...IN FRONT OF HER."), the whole Kingpin origin episode, the suit reveal, Matt finally putting an end (somewhat) to Fisk, etc. They even managed to do what the Affleck film did in like 15-20 minutes and tell Matt's backstory in less than 5. Cox and D'Onofrio as DD and Kingpin were fantastic casting choices, and Henson was a perfect Foggy. Karen is already a better love interest than Elektra, but that's a given.

    Here's what I'm thinking about right now, though.

    So obviously, Kingpin's busting out of jail somehow next season, Matt and Karen are finally going to be a thing (although I liked Matt and Claire a lot), and Daredevil's going to hopefully encounter more villains (Bullseye? Nuke?). I'm intrigued, however, by what Will pointed out: because he's the Owl, a major character of the series, I'm just wondering how Owlsley's going to be resurrected after Fisk threw him down the elevator shaft for trying to kill Vanessa. I read some of the comics, but not all of them, so forgive me if I'm not as knowledgeable.

    Also, will we see Madame Gao again? I hope she comes back, she was ruthless lol

    Killing Ben Urich was the most surprising (and devastating) event to me this season, even though it was expected considering he was alone in his room with Fisk. Ben's been a major player, so I'm wondering how they're going to play it out without the reporter that reports on Daredevil throughout. He knows that's Matt under the mask. I'm guessing Foggy will have a role in being the new Ben, minus the reporting? I don't know, but I'm still in shock over the death.

    I really hope they head into the Born Again storyline for the second season too, Will. It makes total sense, considering that Ben mentioned digging deep into Karen's past and the fact that they've brought up Matt's mom in the second episode (Jack's conversation on the payphone with her) and the Stick episode, who is a nun. Still my favorite comic book arc. Although it'd be kinda weird and maybe off-putting to have Chris Evans' Captain America in a TV-MA show with Charlie Cox's Daredevil. :lol:

    Killing off Wesley was also surprising. I actually grew to really like him after the first couple of episodes, which makes sense seeing he was a very slimy villain with a soft spot for his best friend, Wilson. It pushed Kingpin off the edge, though, so there's that.

    The Avengers Easter eggs were a good touch. Definitely added context and info for those who don't already know that Daredevil takes place months after the ending of The Avengers.


    Now here's to hoping that Netflix can make Jessica Jones, Luke Cage, and Iron Fist as awesome. I can also proudly say that I'm really looking forward to the Defenders crossover.
     
  16. #36
    Will

    Will bread crumbs & white stones LPA Addicted VIP

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    Oh.

    I don't know how or why, but I'd forgotten Kingpin threw Owlsley down the elevator shaft. I think that'll throw out my Owlsley-becoming-the-Owl-proper idea out the window. Unless he's brought back in the same manner I think Nobu will be brought back. Which would be kind of lame I think.

    Ben's death was horrible for me. I really, really thought Kingpin was going to leave him alone. I don't know why I thought that.

    For me, Wesley's death was the worst of the entire season. It'd have been like if they'd killed Loki off in the first Thor movie. That's how much I liked Wesley as a character. I thought he was phenomenal. But then again, the actor playing him portrayed him so fucking well, I think that's part of the reason I liked him so much.

    "I AM THE ILL-INTENT!" was the best line of the entire series, I think.


    Yeah.

    Also:

    I think Madame Gao is the Crane Mother and I think we'll see her again in Iron Fist.
     
  17. #37
    jare0674

    jare0674 There's a seat here along side me...

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    Finally finished, damn was this show good! I hope we don't hve to wait too long for a second season.
     
  18. #38
    The Joesen One

    The Joesen One Fun-employed LPA Super Member

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    Most likely late 2017-early 2018. Luke Cage and Iron Fist are pushed to 2016, and Defenders will probably air after all four Netflix shows are done with their first series.
     
  19. #39
    Abel

    Abel Chester Bennington saved my life.

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    Wait.

    I just read an IGN comment that suggested that maybe Owlsley's son could become the Owl instead. That'd be a very interesting prospect. Then again, I don't remember if Owlsley, in between his wise-cracks and hilariously prickly statements, mentioned a son, so I'll look back again when I gladly re-watch the season some time. As for Nobu, I did not know he could be resurrected; I was under the impression that he burned to death. (again, this is the Marvel movie nerd in me and not the comic book nerd like I wish I was lol)

    That makes absolute total sense for Gao, and it goes along with the Steel Serpent heroin, too.

    I totally agree with you on Wesley. Toby Leonard Moore portrayed him amazingly. So amazing that I wasn't going "Yeah, go Karen! Shoot that weasel!" and was more "What the heck, Karen?!" Definitely shocking. I'd put his death and Ben's death as the most shocking. Mrs. Cardenas' death was the second-most heartbreaking death for me.

    "KEEP KICKING HIM!" is going to stay with me for the rest of my life, probably. Goodness, that episode was legendary.

    What was the most violent death, in your opinion? (if anyone else other than Will reads this, you can answer this too haha) Besides Kingpin's car door, I'd chalk it up to Mr. Healy performing hara-kiri in front of Daredevil just because he said Wilson's name. That caught me off-guard.

    Just remembered one of my favorite things about the show: how Daredevil just comes out of nowhere and takes out goons. I was laughing at times because he'd just enter or pop out of nowhere without any fanfare at times. It's great compared to other superheroes where you know where they are and where they'll be flying in to save the day. I also liked how human he is: he takes beatings and sells them the next day or next episode. Makes him more relatable, unsurprisingly, and it works to develop his depth.

    Random thought: "A Line in the Sand" and "It Goes Through" are perfect for Daredevil.
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2015
  20. #40
    Will

    Will bread crumbs & white stones LPA Addicted VIP

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    Yes. Owlsley mentions his son a couple times. In fact, I think the first time he mentions his son, the mention seems very pointed, like the writers wanted you to remember he had a son. The writers could have his son set out to avenge his death and become the Owl. It would be perfect.

    I think Nobu will come back because he seems to be presented as the leader of the Hand, and the Hand is known for being a supernatural organization who resurrect people magically, so I think they'll want to bring back their leader (assuming he is their leader). I think the writers are going to tie the Hand into K'un L'un and Iron Fist even though I don't think the two are very related in the comics.

    The most brutal death for me was Anatoly having his head smashed by Kingpin. That was utterly ridiculous. I expected it to be a clean decapitation from pre-release reports, but it wasn't at all. The whole time I was just shocked. Super brutal.
     

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