Linkin Park vs Lana Del Rey

Discussion in 'Linkin Park Chat' started by Jayhov, May 16, 2014.

  1. Louis

    Louis Message me if you need to talk. We love you all. LPA Team

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    Linkin Park doesn't have to be a legacy act if they don't want to - but they have to stop making music like The Hunting Party if that's the case. No disrespect to that album or to LIVING THINGS, but honestly unless the band is serious about trying to make different kinds of music with each album and with really trying to push the envelope each time, they're going to become this legacy act you're all talking about. Bands like Korn are stuck where they are because they make the same music all of the time and it gets worse with age, and so only nostalgia carries their concerts and fan base.

    Look at a band like Radiohead. I know they are a considerably more talented band who have done a lot more in music than Linkin Park has so it's a rough comparison, but think of it this way. That band is makes different albums each and every time, and it's not like these albums are high-energy hard rock albums. Their material ever since they came out with Kid A has been very experimental and has become more minimalistic over time. However, their shows sell out all of the time. Granted, this is partially because Radiohead has a huge fan base and because they don't perform a whole lot of shows. With that said, however, their fan base is as big as it is because they can grab fans from multiple genres. You'll have your Radiohead fans from the early days, who were much more into the rock that Radiohead was making. And you may have brand new fans from King of Limbs who were much more into the minimalistic material. Either way, your fan base is diverse but committed regardless.

    Linkin Park doesn't have a diverse fan base. They have a polarized one. You have people who largely fit into two camps - Pre-A Thousand Suns or Post-A Thousand Suns. Of course, there are those in between - but this is what I've largely observed. A lot of fans come to the shows to watch the band perform their Hybrid Theory and Meteora hits, and a lot of fans come to watch the band perform songs from A Thousand Suns, LIVING THINGS, and so forth. But these are two types of fans who will either be happy or sad depending on what happens with each album. If the band sticks to this mode where they really only make two kinds of music (hard rap-rock or electronic), they're not going to gain new fans. If you compile this with a changing music industry where people don't buy CDs and they look for songs instead off of the radio, where Linkin Park doesn't really have a great presence, how do you expect the band NOT to become a Legacy Act?

    There are going to be people who are going to argue that Linkin Park does change with each album, but let's be real. Minutes to Midnight was more different from its predecessors than The Hunting Party was from its predecessors. Does this not say something about how little the band has actually swayed from what they're known for? A Thousand Suns is as different as you'll get, and the band can't perform it live with any quality whatsoever it seems. Chester even said that some of those songs suck the energy out of crowds because they're mid-range songs. If the band is looking to perform high-energy shows, they're going to have a hard time innovating.

    I don't know - I think people need to accept that band's with staying power make considerable changes over the courses of their careers. Linkin Park has had staying power because the band grabbed a lot of people at a young age, and nostalgia has carried those fans through. Part of what has helped me stick with Linkin Park is that I feel I have matured as the band's music has, but now I'm starting to notice that they've stagnated. I was seriously not all that impressed with LIVING THINGS and The Hunting Party. Unless they really try something different the next time around, can I really stick to them the same way?

    Forgive me for the rant, but things have to change if the band doesn't want to become a legacy act.
     
  2. Blackee Dammet

    Blackee Dammet Feminism Is My God Now

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    The band simply might not give a shit anymore.

    They've been around damn near 20 years, their biggest success was their debut album, their next biggest was an album a lot of the fans and even they don't seem to really like much anymore, and every subsequent thing they've done has been met with mixed acclaim and dropping sales. It might not just be in them anymore, they might just want to make what they want to play and not care about changing the business or breaking genres anymore. People are using the whole "legacy band" thing as a derogatory, but why? Not every band even gets a legacy, it's earned for being very big for a substantial amount of time. Korn's not moving numbers anymore? Ok, but they were for 15 years. What's wrong with settling down in that sweet spot? Not every gamble is a win, sometimes you can shoot for a massive goal (ATS) and have it not pay off the way you want (the reaction to ATS).

    Linkin Park is not Radiohead. There are very few bands that are ever going to be considered all-time greats like Radiohead. It should have been very obvious a long time ago Linkin Park isn't going to be one of those bands, and that's ok. Linkin Park became incredibly famous for being very talented in doing a very certain kind of music that had a limited shelf life very well. They took a stab at breaking out of that box and becoming known for something else. And they did it. That there are even is an "old Linkin Park" and a "new Linkin Park" to differentiate from is a testament to their efforts. It's enough.

    They're old, guys. They're an old band. You're old. Times change, and that's ok. Linkin Park will, at some point, become that legacy act. And it'll be ok.
     
  3. BIBBLE

    BIBBLE Well-Known Member

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    Why Don't you like THP?
     
  4. Reed To Black

    Reed To Black Prog, bro.

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    How to innovate the next album: straight folk.
     
  5. Mr. Awesome

    Mr. Awesome Well-Known Member

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    Even a band that doesn't really change their musical style much drastically every album or two and follow the "If it's not broken, don't fix it" direction can be a legacy act. Look at AC/DC, they don't treat music like it's rocket science and they're one of the most well known hard rock bands of all time.
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2014
  6. Nicholas

    Nicholas Well-Known Member

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    I think they're already at that point. Sadly, I think the band will perform worse and worse in sales as time goes on, from overall general decrease in album sales and the band itself slowly becoming irrelevant. I hate to say it, but aside from the fans like us, nobody really cares about Linkin Park anymore. More than half the people I've seen discuss about the band seem to barely know of any songs outside of the HT-M era. The other half seem to dislike anything they put out after Meteora, constantly begging the band for a "return to roots" album. At this point, they ARE a Legacy act. If you ask the average person about Linkin Park chances are they only remember them from the early 2000s. Linkin Park was part of a "fad" of the early 2000 Nu-Metal era craze, they broke out of it and people have seemed to continually lose interest in them over the years.

    They had a few big hits since then like "What I've Done" and "New Divide", but those songs came out years ago after they went on an hiatus and people were eagerly anticipating their comeback. They have yet to have a huge hit since. The Hunting Party is shaping up to be their worst performing non-remix album. Not a single song breaking into the top 100 charts, and a band touted as huge got beaten out from the top spot by 2 fairly new music artists. At this point, the only thing keeping them selling is their devoted fans and their familiar name, but how long will that last? For now they still hold that familiar name that keeps people checking them out, but I don't feel that will last forever. They used to be what's in and now they're not. They unfortunately happened to become famous on a dying genre.

    To be even harsher, I'd go as far as to call them an old band with a bleeding fanbase, which at this point are only surviving by being a "legacy act". I give the band a huge amount of respect for constantly striving forward and never limiting themselves, and is the main part of the reason why I'm still a fan of them today. However, I still think the only thing keeping them around is their name, I just simply think they don't make music that many want to hear anymore. They'll always have their fans that'll stick with them, but I don't seem them ever recapturing what they once had. I just don't seem them being around a decade from now, except to play "In the End" and "Numb" at 50.

    At this point, I'd rather have them make maybe one more album for old times sake, then call it quits. I'd rather see them continue their side projects. Chester with STP, and Mike making another rap album. I'd rather seem them go out with a bang and some dignity, something like THP, but bigger. Rather then seeing them pumping out quick cash-in EDM albums hoping to squeeze out every last penny they can make.
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2014
  7. Susy

    Susy god break down the door LPA Contributor

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    I didn't come here to be insulted! :mad: I'm still very young looking for my years!
     
  8. Hans Muster

    Hans Muster Well-Known Member

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    This is a young dude reviewing Guilty All the Same:

    "WTF! Ich habe mich während dem anhören des Songs richtig unwohl gefühlt und musste mich schon fast drängen das ganze zu hören! Nach einigen Sekunden hat man schon das bedürfnis zu skippen! Richtig richtig schlecht, gefällt mir überhaupt nicht, da vermisst man die guten alten Linkin mit ihren tollen Song wie "New Divide" oder "Castle of Glass""

    translated: "WTF! I felt really uncomfortable while listenig to the song and I almost had to push myself to listen the whole thing! After a few seconds I already felt the urge to skip! Really, really bad, I don't like it at all, I miss the good old Linkin with great songs as "New Divide" or "Castle of Glass".

    What I'm saying? In Europe, young people listen to Linkin Park and many of them don't even remember HT. The radio doesn't play In the End or Numb, but they play Shadow of the Day and Burn It Down. Linkin Park is dead in America but not here.
     
  9. Louis

    Louis Message me if you need to talk. We love you all. LPA Team

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    Well, there are a couple of points I'd like to address with your statement - although in large part I can definitely see where you're coming from and wouldn't necessarily disagree:

    (1) I would agree that there's nothing wrong with being a "legacy act," but I don't think the band is ready to be just that. You can hear it in the way that they speak about their albums. Their priority is to continue to make innovative albums - records that challenge the status quo and break the developing mold. The only time I ever feel they ever really said, "We want to make an album we're comfortable making," was for LIVING THINGS - but since then they changed mindset again. The Hunting Party, to them, was all about trying to make a record that had the same ethos of what they felt was true rock. With that said, however, I think the mindset is fine but the execution hasn't been good. The Hunting Party is unfortunately not going to have staying power because nothing they did on that album was truly innovative. Granted, it was innovative for them - finally you hear some more complex, fast drum rhythms and some guitar solos - but it's been done before. A Thousand Suns is one of the few albums in my library that I can't really attribute to a genre - or say that it's been somehow done before. That's what I want Linkin Park to be. I want them to make records that are mind-boggling in that sense, as vague as that sounds. Either way, the point that I'm trying to make is that while it's okay for them to be a "legacy act," they don't want to be. They have to really get back into that innovative mindset, in my opinion. If it sounds familiar, throw it out. I know a lot of fans don't like that - but personally, I do. To me that's the only way they begin to sweep new fans into the base and maintain relevance that is more than just nostalgic.

    (2) I'm not sure I can say A Thousand Suns didn't pay off the way they wanted. I think it's exactly what they wanted. I think Chester said on multiple occasions that the polarized reviews of the record validated their efforts. Bold efforts that defy expectations ought to create polarized responses, and they got what they wanted. Granted, I think Mike was surprised by some of the comments they received - because they outlined some sort of hypocrisy that while people liked electronic music they didn't like this album because it wasn't old Linkin Park (as if they had to fit in some sort of prescribed box, if you will). Either way, I think they got what they wanted - it just hurt them purely if you're talking about mainstream presence.

    (3) Of course they're not Radiohead, nor do I ever intend to put them in that stratosphere. However, I think that strategy and that ethos is one worth pursuing. Radiohead refuses to do anything that's been done, and they refuse to put themselves in a box. They made a concerted effort as a band to be of their own kind - they are Radiohead and Radiohead alone. They don't fit anywhere else and that's how they want to be. I think Linkin Park ought to pursue that kind of mentality and try to erase this huge box that people are still putting them into as a rap-rock band past their prime. It doesn't have to be like that, and I think while being a "legacy act" has staying power, being relevant is even greater. Radiohead is still relevant, and I think Linkin Park can be too.

    (4) I'm not sure if we can say they're old just yet, especially relative to other bands that still have quite a bit of relevance and are hitting their 40's and 50's. Granted, relative to when they started and for how long we've known them in our relatively short lifetimes - yeah, they're a bit old. But on the table of time, there is still a lot of space for Linkin Park to innovate and release bold, new music. I just think they need to take their time. It's okay to wait 4-5 years for an album. They took their time with A Thousand Suns and it was awesome in the end. LIVING THINGS and The Hunting Party felt rushed to me, and you can tell by how little time it took relatively speaking to put out those records.

    That's a good question. I suppose I ought to clarify that it's not that I don't like it. I don't really think it's a bad album. It's certainly not their best (by now you know what my favorite is), but it's a respectable effort that shows Linkin Park's willingness to improve as a band. Rob's drumming and Brad's guitar performances were very good, and those are what really make the album. I also think it's important for me to clarify that there are some songs on it that I really, really do like. I genuinely enjoy "Keys to the Kingdom," "Guilty All the Same," "War," and "Drawbar." If you want to talk about songs that I will remember this album for, it would be those ones.

    With that said, the album just doesn't stick for me. Generally speaking, when my favorite bands release new albums and I like those albums - I will binge listen to those albums. Night and day. They become the only thing I listen to. I push myself to listen to them again and again until I decide for sure whether or not I like them. After that, I keep pushing until I begin to hear things on newer listens that I didn't hear on older ones. I seek to understand the songs and know them as well as I can, because I find great enjoyment in that process.

    The Hunting Party isn't like that for me. I think others here on the forums can sympathize, but I think I got bored of it. However, I'm not so bored of it as I am really just frustrated. I got frustrated the moment that "All For Nothing" came on. While I don't dislike the song (I actually really like the chorus with Page Hamilton), I genuinely dislike Mike's rapping. They're so unnecessary in that song. The truth is that these "don't fuckin' challenge me" raps were more than enough on LIVING THINGS. Someone mentioned in another thread how Mike used to "paint" with his raps - he used to illustrate a scene, something you could imagine. Now, there is really nothing to his raps. It's all just "I'mma five star general" this and "I'm not afraid to see you suckas hold a blade to me" that. It got old so quick for me. They don't even connect with their choruses. "All For Nothing" makes no sense with the raps there, and neither does "Wastelands." It is so ridiculously pointless to have them there.

    What else frustrates me? Lyrically, the album struggles as a whole compared to LIVING THINGS and A Thousand Suns. I don't know why making hard rock music should have to compromise strong lyricism. Somehow, it did for them. Some of the songs have good lyrics and are meaningful, but they're few and far between on this record. This is what I mean by wishing the band took more time with albums - you can easily make lyrics more illustrative and powerful and not have to leave them so bland and simple as they did here.

    There are other smaller things, too. "Until It's Gone" belonged on their first two albums and just isn't any good on this one. I liked "Rebellion" at first but the lyrics are satirical, and while I admire their effort there it's just hard for me to take the song seriously. However, the bigger point is that the latter half of the album really falls on itself (in my opinion). I genuinely have a hard time seeing what the band was going for on "Mark the Graves," and "A Line in the Sand." It genuinely sounds like they were going for something creative and just kinda stopped before they really perfected those songs. They feel incomplete, they bounce around too much, and just don't feel right. I like parts of them, but parts alone. I want to be able to like songs in their entirety, not just choruses or certain riffs and verses. "Final Masquerade" is a great vocal performance for Chester, but he sounds too much like Billy Joe Armstrong and the song just sounds too generic for my taste. On the whole, the album is like that - we've heard it before, just not from Linkin Park.

    Again, it's not a *bad* album, but it has zero staying power. I'm not going to remember this album for much more than the few songs I listed above. Can you imagine that the two best songs on this album (in my opinion anyway) are "Keys to the Kingdom" and "Guilty All the Same?" The opening track is so strong and then the album loses steam from there. "Guilty All the Same" brings you back in and builds you up and really brings out an awesome bridge from Rakim that I really like with the hard guitars in the background, and then thankfully "War" is exciting and Chester's screams are LOUD and I like it. After that...I dno. Not much else, I suppose?

    My opinion isn't fully formed because in fairness I haven't given the album due listen like I have other albums, but for now, that's where I stand.

    [/longasspost]
     
  10. polleo

    polleo You're gonna carry that weight. LPA Super Member

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    Exactly, they're doing good enough in countries outside America. Yes, THP didn't sell awesome but that's because of it's genre not linkin park's relevance. Everyone I know still knows linkin park. They have a huge fan base internationally. THP was experimental- Drawbar, Keys to the kingdom's song structure etc. Living things wasn't EDM, it was a mixture of folk and electronic music. Last time I checked Victimized and UIB weren't exactly radio stuff. You guys generalize too much. LP isn't gonna be dead anytime soon. There's a chance their next album could be a hit. Or not. Either way, the band knows what they are doing, you should calm down.
     
  11. minuteforce

    minuteforce Danny's not here, Mrs. Torrance. LPA Team

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    You make a good point. On "The Hunting Party", more than on any other of their albums, the band really wear their influences on their sleeves. The album is basically full of songs which, rap verses aside, could probably have been done by other bands.

    I like "The Hunting Party", and, for me, personally, the album will probably have some "staying power" :) ... but I also feel that Linkin Park are truly at their best when they're making songs that only they could make.
     
  12. Blackee Dammet

    Blackee Dammet Feminism Is My God Now

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    I know he said that, but I personally can't see any satire in it. That sounds like something he just said to make it look more thought provoking than it is, if anything the song itself is a only satirizing their older "rebellious" songs.

    I mean for all I know he meant exactly what he said and I'm wrong, but either Mike's on some way next level shit or just doesn't understand satire, but honest to god I'm not finding any in Rebellion.
     
  13. Louis

    Louis Message me if you need to talk. We love you all. LPA Team

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    Exactly. This could have definitely been the album of another band, which is what frustrates me the most. Linkin Park has been at their best making songs that only they could make. That is about as good as anyone could have said it.

    There is satire - I think largely referring to the fact that people want to feel like they're a part of something courageous and rebellious when they know nothing about oppression. It seems to be poking at the idea of the privileged and ignorant fighting for the unprivileged and the oppressed. At least, that's how I perceive it. I could be completely wrong.
     
  14. minuteforce

    minuteforce Danny's not here, Mrs. Torrance. LPA Team

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    I don't personally interpret the lyrics as being "sarcastic" or "satirical"; to me, they deliver the point straight-up without any double-meanings in the lines.

    If the lyrics were sarcastic, that would mean that the entire notion that they present is only meant to be taken sarcastically.
     
  15. Blackee Dammet

    Blackee Dammet Feminism Is My God Now

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    I think we're all on the same page; the song itself is a jab at a particular mindset/attitude, but the lyrics themselves are an otherwise straightforward delivery. The word 'satire' kept throwing me because for whatever reason I kept thinking "Is he implying they're not fortunate ones who've never face oppression? Because that doesn't make sense...", like there was some alternate sarcasm behind what he was saying. I'm pretty sure everyone's interpreting the lyrics correctly.
     
  16. Louis

    Louis Message me if you need to talk. We love you all. LPA Team

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    Yeah I think we were all on the same page after all. :lol:
     
  17. BIBBLE

    BIBBLE Well-Known Member

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    LP is no where close to "dead" in America, They sold 113k albums in the first 7 days that's a very high number for a rock record.
     
  18. Blake

    Blake Leave a Trace LPA Super Member

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    This thread is still going on?

    :samuel:
     
  19. Michele

    Michele Praise Brad Delson, our Lord and Savior. LPA Addict

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    If no one will killing it, yes :kappa:
     
  20. Broman

    Broman Well-Known Member

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    So.........how about that Lana..........................
     

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