John Kerry vs. George W. Bush

Discussion in 'Serious Chat' started by Faint.09, Jun 19, 2004.

  1. #41
    Anthony.

    Anthony. .Orestes LPA Super VIP

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    Well, the fact that he can't touch us (yet), is comforting. :lol:. Now I see. [/b][/quote]
    Taepo-Dong III. Coming to nuke a city near you in less than 10 years.

    Sounds like a good punch line :lol: .
     
  2. #42
    Whimsicality

    Whimsicality I broke the dam.

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    That's how I feel.
     
  3. #43
    erasethepain

    erasethepain Well-Known Member

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    George Bush is a discrace to mankind.

    John Kerry is the people. So I'm down with him all the way.
     
  4. #44
    TheVoodoo

    TheVoodoo Well-Known Member

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    I cant vote yet but if I could I would go with Bush just because of my Christian convictions.
     
  5. #45
    Todd

    Todd FLǕGGȦ∂NKđ€ČHIŒβǾLʃÊN LPA Administrator

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    So just because he's Christain, you would vote for Bush even though it's been a horrible 4 years and he's right behind Nixon in the Worst President Ever list? Not to mention an unjustified war that resulted in the deaths of thousands of innocent civilians and American soldiers?
     
  6. #46
    enfestid

    enfestid Guest




    Well, it's your opinion, but I wouldn't vote for a President because of my religious beliefs, personally.
     
  7. #47
    Todd

    Todd FLǕGGȦ∂NKđ€ČHIŒβǾLʃÊN LPA Administrator

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    Well, it's your opinion, but I wouldn't vote for a President because of my religious beliefs, personally. [/b][/quote]
    Ditto.

    I go with the best canidate, and I would vote republican if I agreed with them more than the democrat (which I doubt would ever happen though to be honest)
     
  8. #48
    Ander

    Ander LPA VIP LPA Super VIP

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  9. #49
    Mark

    Mark Canadian Beauty LPA Administrator

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  10. #50
    Hybrid Theory

    Hybrid Theory Well-Known Member

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    I would vote for Kerry. Bush better not be re-elected. He shouldn't of been in office in the first place. Too bad I can't vote yet. I'll only be 5 months shy of voting age when November rolls around.
     
  11. #51



    This may sound a bit single minded but: NOTHING CAN BE WORSE THAN GEORGE W. BUSH. Until it's Adolf Hitler.

    5 reasons why Bush is unfit for president:

    1. He's an idiot. Honestly, if it weren't for his Republican cronies, Bush wouldn't have the faintest clue how to run the country. Just look at him after he was informed of the 9/11 attacks. Two words: complete moron.

    2. He f**ked up the economy badly. All the facts are there and people know it.

    3. He's a liar, and a bad one at that. If you think Kerry is wishy-washy and changes his stance a lot, take a look at the Bush administration. First it's "we know Iraq has WMD". Then it's "it may take some time to find the WMD". Then it's "we're there to liberate Iraq". And now, their poodle Tony Blair has offered the foregone conclusion: "We may never find the WMD."

    4. He's a corporate crook. He was Kenneth Lay's best buddy but after Enron collapsed and Lay got in trouble, the only thing Bush could say was: "Ken who?"

    5. He's a THIEF. He stole the 2000 presidency by having his cronies disenfranchising minorities (mostly African-Americans), inventing dodgy ballots, wiping hundreds of people off the voters registry (even though they weren't felons), and of course getting that b*tch Katherine Harris to decide the election outcome in the Supreme Court where the majority of the jury is Republican and in a state presided by his very own brother Jeb Bush!

    DOWN WITH BUSH! If anyone can offer me 5 valid reasons why he deserves another term in the Oval Office, I'd applaud you.

    Anyway, John Edwards is a great choice for VP candidate. I'm glad Kerry picked him.
     
  12. #52
    enfestid

    enfestid Guest




    Wow, a lot of your information is horribly misinformed. I'll get you some links to show you some facts about how a few of your statements are wrong.
     
  13. #53



    None of this stuff is misinformed, dude. I got all this stuff from real news clips and TV documentaries. I was actually quoting the politicians in question. Some of the stuff they say is right out of their mouth. It might not be correct word for word but it's something along those lines. If you ever find the DVD in the "Rock Against Bush" CD, watch it because it shows you how Rumsfeld's statements concerning WMD begin to change as time goes by.

    As for the voting thing, that's not incorrect either. Thousands of African-Americans can attest that they were denied the right to vote even though they haven't committed a single crime in their life.
     
  14. #54
    enfestid

    enfestid Guest




    None of this stuff is misinformed, dude. I got all this stuff from real news clips and TV documentaries. I was actually quoting the politicians in question. Some of the stuff they say is right out of their mouth. It might not be correct word for word but it's something along those lines. If you ever find the DVD in the "Rock Against Bush" CD, watch it because it shows you how Rumsfeld's statements concerning WMD begin to change as time goes by.

    As for the voting thing, that's not incorrect either. Thousands of African-Americans can attest that they were denied the right to vote even though they haven't committed a single crime in their life. [/b][/quote]
    Well, believe what you want, but I happen to know that some of your information is factually wrong, stretched, or fabricated. I'll try to get all the links by tomorrow and post them here.

    I know you won't care what I post, though. I know half the people here won't care what I post... in fact, I'd say probably everyone here won't care what I post on the matter, it's not going to change their opinion. But I'm just really getting tired of people believing some factually-incorrect garbage that people are spewing. Everyone wants to feel like they're making a difference, but if you believe everything you hear without checking it out then you're not making a positive difference.

    But, I'm not telling you to like Bush. I'm not saying vote for him. I'd never tell anyone to do that. If you like Kerry, so be it, it's your rightful opinion, I just disagree with it. But when you post false information and then claim it's real, then I care.
     
  15. #55



    Well, believe what you want, but I happen to know that some of your information is factually wrong, stretched, or fabricated. I'll try to get all the links by tomorrow and post them here.

    I know you won't care what I post, though. I know half the people here won't care what I post... in fact, I'd say probably everyone here won't care what I post on the matter, it's not going to change their opinion. But I'm just really getting tired of people believing some factually-incorrect garbage that people are spewing. Everyone wants to feel like they're making a difference, but if you believe everything you hear without checking it out then you're not making a positive difference.

    But, I'm not telling you to like Bush. I'm not saying vote for him. I'd never tell anyone to do that. If you like Kerry, so be it, it's your rightful opinion, I just disagree with it. But when you post false information and then claim it's real, then I care. [/b][/quote]
    Until you prove them to be false, I'll take them to be true, and why shouldn't you be convinced of something when you hear it from the horse's mouth?

    Links might not even be enough. If you can direct me to some video footage that shows me what I've said is wrong, I'd believe you. Frankly, I'd love to post some damning evidence of Bush's immoral behaviour on video here but since I can't, you can probably find it for yourself.
     
  16. #56
    enfestid

    enfestid Guest




    Your whole attitude for the situation speaks for itself. You believe what you want to believe, not what presents itself with facts. The fact that you're basing your information on things like "Rock Against Bush" isn't even funny, especially since NOFX (who's lead singer is responsible for the CD, I'm pretty sure) has never liked the government, no matter who's president. NOFX is your typical "I hate the government" punk band. Does that mean I hate their music? Nope, I think they're a good band. But their politcal status is hardly relevant at all.

    Also, you quoted me when I stated that everyone just says 'Anyone but Bush' and 'No one has given me any good information on why Kerry should be president' and you gave no information on Kerry, only (false) negative information on Bush! If you're going to quote me please at least make it something that relates to my post. I'm still waiting for someone -- anyone -- to give me some good reasons why Kerry should be president. Anyone at all? Any good reasons?

    And, now, to the facts.

    1. Really? Complete moron? That's why he was getting praise from the press about running the country well after the attacks, including democrats! Must be that, right? Only after Bush made statements about war did more people star calling him a 'moron' and 'complete idiot', etc.

    "If it weren't for his Republican cronies, Bush wouldn't even have the faintest clue how to run the country."
    Yeah, right. Good job contradicting yourself there, too. I highly doubt that Bush -- who's father quite obviously ran the country -- wouldn't know what to do about running the country. Considering that he's been practically groomed for the status since he first got into politics. Please... he was a govenor and lacked all these 'Republican cronies' and got the job done. And every president needs to 'cronies' to run the country. To think otherwise is absolutely ignorant. Tell me a president that hasn't run the country without 'cronies' and I'll give you a million bucks. That's right, I'll give you a million-freakin'-bucks.

    2. Bush f**cked up the economy badly?! Bwhwhwha, that's a riot! There was a technology crash after Clinton that would have made any president "[f**ck] up the economy badly". In fact, during Clinton's last year the economy was already showing signs of fading. Please, give me these "facts" that you speak of and get these people that "know it" to come tell me how they know it. I challenge you. No, I double-dog dare you :rolleyes:

    3. Bush is a liar? Please tell me exactly why. Tell me what Bush lied about, considering that the non-partisian (look up the word if you don't know what it means) group that investigated the war on Iraq found that it was the CIA's flase information, not Bush's. Go ahead and say "goes to show how stupid he is" or some moronic crap like that, but almost every President listens to their CIA advisors about the situation. I mean, if a freaking non-partisian group believes that almost all of the blame is to be put on the CIA then what more do you need? Do you want a diagram or something? Can you tell me what else it is Bush lied about, since it's obvious now that he lied about nothing, but gave the information that was presented to him by the CIA?

    4. Proof? Give me proof. Not to mention this doesn't make him a crook, since he stole nothing. Great use of words there, pal.

    5. Again, give me proof on the matter. I find it amazing you're bringing this up, considering that Al Gore only asked that counties where he won be recounted (thus giving him more votes than he actually got!). Considering that Bush won the electoral college (what really matters), I'd absolutely love to know how he "stole" the election even when he won it without the vote? (Which he also ended up getting after the recount.)

    Final counts in Florida show that Bush won the vote fair and square. Should I even mention who filed the first legal suit to get the courts involved? Why, none other than Gore! You talk about Bush being unfair and going to the courts when Gore was the first to do so! Basically, Gore's group opposed recounting the entire state. As I already said, they only wanted areas that he won and heavily-democratic areas to be recounted and taken to the total. Why? Because it would mean he could get more votes, obviously.

    The Florida Supreme Court allowed Gore to do this, but Bush (like any sane candidate would do, including Gore or anyone else you can bother to mention) went to the United States Supreme Court to get the entire state recounted. Tell me, exactly how is this "stealing" the election when all he did was get the accurate account instead of the Democratic account?

    Also: when the Miami Herald recounted the votes (all of them), George Bush still won. It's my first link, just for you ;)

    Links, Sources:
    1:
    "An Interesting Day: President Bush's Movements and Actions on 9/11"
    2:
    "The Bush Economy?"
    "Over 1.5 Million Jobs Created Since August with 10 Straight Months of Job Gains; The President's Economic Policies Continue to Drive Steady Job Growth and Strengthen the Economy"
    "Economic outlook bright, analysts say"
    3:
    "Report blames 'group think' for CIA failures on Iraq"
    4:
    You first, bud.
    5:
    "And the winner is... still George Bush"
    Florida Election Results (Downloadable)
    "Review shows ballots say Bush won" (Registration Required)


    Side Note: Oh, and please, before anyone even brings up Fahrenheit 9/11 again, it's interesting to note that not all of the facts even check out. It seems that Moore sure did like to stetch the information and pretty much just used nice tactics to make Bush seem out of place, yet very few of the actual facts check out.

    Side Note #2: I ask yet again (of anyone) for someone to give me a reason why Kerry should be president other than 'Anyone but Bush!'.

    Side Note #3: I'll be adding to that list of links tomorrow, as I said.
     
  17. #57
    Will

    Will bread crumbs & white stones LPA Addicted VIP

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    enfestid = teh rawk.
     
  18. #58
    Ander

    Ander LPA VIP LPA Super VIP

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    Because not enough people will vote for John Nader like they should. :lol:
     
  19. #59
    enfestid

    enfestid Guest




    :lol:

    I should note, as I said, I'm not trying to change anyone's opinions. I just don't like it when people lie about the facts. I think Michael Moore made a lot of good points in Farhenheit 9/11, but a lot were lies or stretches of the truth, too.

    I don't think Kerry is a bad guy. I just don't think he should be president. Vote for who you want, though. I just think that Bush is a decent president who's only getting a bad wrap due to the Iraq war (which many democrats actually support now... interesting note: Kerry supported it from the beginning).

    Though, I should note if Wesley Clarke or John McCain were running they'd have my vote. :lol:

    EDIT:
    Man, tell me about it! I think if Nader were in a larger party he'd be dominating this election.
     
  20. #60
    Mark

    Mark Canadian Beauty LPA Administrator

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    To Enfestid's acount of the second question;

    Clinton left office with the highest federal surplus budget in the history of the United States, at a staggering 230 billion dollars.

    When Clinton took office in 92, the budget defecit was 290 billion dollars (oh, who left that? Bush Sr? hmmm...), and it was predicted that by 2000 that it would be even worse, at a 455 billion dollar defecit. The 230 billion dollar surplus was announced just over a month before the November 2000 election.

    The national debt was 5.7 trillion in 1998, and was reduced 360 billion dollars by the Clinton administration by 2000. In 2000 alone, 223 billion dollars was reduced, the single highest one-year debt reduction in the history of the United States.

    With the Iraq war in full throttle in February 2004, Bush sent congress a 2.4 trillion dollar budget for increases on homeland security and military. The budget defecit was now a record high 521 billion defecit. The national debt increases at an average of 1.7 billion dollars a day, with each American citizen shouldering nearly 25 thousand dollars each of the defecit share. The national debt is now at a 7.26 trillion dollar level, worse than anytime ever before.

    To Enfestid's acount of the fifth question;

    Five main characters (4 of which are Bush family members, the other is connected to Bushs) were involved in the Florida election scam that put Bush into office. George Bush Jr (Candidate), George Bush Sr. (Ex-President), Jeb Bush (Florida govenor), John Ellis (Fox News' program director for the 2004 Election), and Katherine Harris (Bush campaign cochairwoman and Florida's secretary of state in charge of the election).

    So here's what happened; In the summer of 2000, Katherine Harris, with monetary support from Jeb Bush and the Floridian government, paid 4 million dollars to Database Technologies to go through the voter rolls and remove anyone "suspected" of being a former felon. This means that 31% of all black men in Florida were prohibited to vote in the 2000 election. Black Floridians are overwhelmingly Democrats, with over 90% of them (well, the ones that were allowed to vote) voting for Gore on November 7th, 2000. 173 thousand people were wiped off the voting rolls, with over 66% of them being black in the Miami county (largest county), and 54% of them being black in Tampa Bay. Of these 173 thousand people, 8 thousand of them were wiped off because of a list Texas governor George Bush Jr supplied to Jeb Bush/Katherine Harris of people who were suspected of being ex-felons who moved from Texas to Florida. The felons on that list had served their time and had their voting right reinstated. Many people who had never commited a crime in their life were wiped off the voter rolls, including the voting supervisor of Madison County, Florida! George Bush Jr received 537 more votes than Al Gore in Florida in November 2000, and surely the 90% of those huge percentages of black "suspected" felons would have made a difference.

    On November 7th, 2000, much confusion was made after the voting polls closed. Counting hadn't even stopped in Tallahassee when John Ellis (a first cousin of George and Jeb Bush), Fox News program director for the 2000 election, made the call to announce Bush as winner of the election. All the other broadcast companies, sensing they would be left behind and lose viewers, quickly followed suit and all called Bush as winner of Florida. Any attempts by Gore to get a recount were now looked upon as spoling from a sore-loser. Meanwhile, Bush went after the overseas absentee ballots. A July 2001 New York Times investigation showed that of the 2490 overseas absentee ballots which ended up being counted, 680 of them were flawed and should not have been counted. Bush got the oversees vote by a 4 to 5 ratio. By that percentage, 544 of the votes should not have been counted. Take those 544 votes away from the 537 margin he won by, and you've got a 7 vote lead for Gore.

    Of the 680 flawed ballots which were counted; 344 had no evidence they were cast on or before the election day (an infraction which means they should not have been counted), 183 were post marked in the United States (overseas absentee ballots, you can't get ballots from overseas posted marked from the US, when you're in the United States!), 96 lacked the appropriate witness information (signed by an official), 169 came from unregistered voters (unable to vote!), 5 came after the Nov 7 deadline, and 38 of the ballots were duplicate ballots from 19 people! Note that that amounts to 835 ballots, meaning many of the ballots had numerous infractions and should not have been counted.

    When the press were allowed to do their own recounts, under the Republicans advocated restrictive standards, they realized that gore would have won by 393 votes in Florida. If you disallowed the ballots with questionable machine error, Gore still would have won by 299 votes. Any protests launced by Gore were quickly knocked down by five judges of the Supreme Court, some of which were former associates or acquaintances of George Bush Sr, from his 88-92 presidency.

    Sources:

    http://edition.cnn.com/2000/ALLPOLITICS/st...linton.surplus/
    http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/

    The Nation, "Florida's 'Disappeared Voters'; Disenfranchised by the GOP" - gregory Palast, Feb 5, 2001
    The Nation, "How The GOP Games the System in Florida" - John Lantigu, April 30, 2001
    New York Times, "Contesting the Vote: Black Voters; Arriving at Florida Voting Places, Some Blacks Found Frustration." - Mireya Navarro/Somini Sengupta, Nov 30, 2000.
    Associated Press, "Fox Executive Spoke Five Times with Cousin Bush on Election Night" - David Bauder, Dec 12, 2000
     

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