John Kerry vs. George W. Bush

Discussion in 'Serious Chat' started by Faint.09, Jun 19, 2004.

  1. #1
    Faint.09

    Faint.09 Well-Known Member

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    The presidential election is just a few months away now and tons of people are already debating of who should be the president for the next 4 years.

    Well, I want the LPA's opinions on who should be America's leader for the upcoming years and the reason for your decision.
     
  2. #2
    enfestid

    enfestid Guest




    I can't vote, but if I could vote it'd be for Bush.

    I don't like Kerry. He is far too wishy-washy for my tastes. He has no firm stances at all. The fact that he had a pro-life sign destroyed at a rally of his isn't very comforting, either. Some people are going to read that and say 'Hey, pro-life sucks, he's right!', but it's the principle of what he did, not what it was about.

    And before people come in and say that Kerry wouldn't have invaded Iraq if he was President -- Kerry has stated time and time again that he would have invaded Iraq, too.
    I'm not quite sure if Kerry is an amazing war hero or anything, either. If you'll notice, Kerry always dodges questions about Vietnam. Why is this? He either killed innocent civilians on his own free will (as he testified to), or he didn't and lied about the whole situation making it much tougher for veterans of the Vietnam war. If you'll ask most veterans of Vietnam, they'll say they dislike him. Not because of what he said (but most disagree with what he said), but the time at which he said it -- it made things a living hell for the veterans.

    If you want Kerry to pull out of Iraq, good luck getting that. Pulling out of Iraq is quite possibly the worst thing that could happen. We absolutely do not want another Afghanistan on our hands. The United States kicked the Soviets out of Afghanistan and withdrew quickly, causing the Taliban to quickly take over. If America withdrew from Iraq, there is no way that it would last long without a hostile overthrow of whatever government it chooses -- it doesn't matter which.

    Basically, I see no reason for Kerry to be President at all. The only reason I've heard for people actually wanting Kerry in the Presidency is because they want "anyone but Bush". I'm sorry, but that's the absolute worst stance you can take on any matter. Learn about him before you say you want him about President.

    That's just my opinion, though.
     
  3. #3
    Todd

    Todd FLǕGGȦ∂NKđ€ČHIŒβǾLʃÊN LPA Administrator

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    I will be voting for Kerry.
     
  4. #4
    Mark

    Mark Canadian Beauty LPA Administrator

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    Despite what you've said, I don't like either of them, but I don't think anything could be worse than George Bush.

    We're talking about a slackassed moron who spent a full month out of his first three months in office, vacationing in the pacific.

    He's turned the United States' greatest surplus budget into the US's greatest defecit budget in only four years. At one part of 2001, Bush predicted a decade ahead to 2011 that under his administration a 5.6 trillion dollar surplus would be created. Right now, under best-case scenarios (meaning everything economically goes right) run by the Bush administration, a 2.3 trillion defecit would still be present. That's nearly an 8-billion dollar difference. At this point, the defecit is 521 billion dollars, when in 2001 before Bush came in as president, it was a 281 billion dollar surplus. (Source)

    I do believe that John Kerry isn't exactly the type of person for president, but his tax promises (we'll see if they hold up. oh wait, he's a politician) and minimum-wage increases, and stances on the environment are better than Bush. I do believe anything is better than Bush.
     
  5. #5
    Todd

    Todd FLǕGGȦ∂NKđ€ČHIŒβǾLʃÊN LPA Administrator

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    ^^What he said

    Anything's better than Bush
     
  6. #6
    enfestid

    enfestid Guest




    No offense, but I just don't see how Kerry would do any improving on the issue, considering that Kerry wants the average income citizen's taxes to increase, while he wants to lower the high-income taxes. I'm sorry, but I don't see how that's going to work in the long run.

    Bush wants to increase the higher-income taxes and keep the average-income taxes roughly around the same, which sounds like a much better idea to me. Taxes are high enough for someone with average income as it is, and people with a higher income shouldn't have a problem paying an increase in taxes.

    I mean, Kerry voted to increase taxes a plethora of times. I'm not quite sure that when America is just getting out of a pseudo-depression that it's the best time to increase taxes for average-income citizens. It simply doesn't make sense to me... unless you want to cripple the economy worse than it currently is.

    If you ask me who should be President out of anyone though, I'd rather have John McCain as President. He had an amazing tax plan when he was running for President. Wesley Clark would have gotten my vote, too -- he knew what he was doing. I really liked his integrity, as well. Too bad Americans really don't research their politics before they vote :(
     
  7. #7
    Todd

    Todd FLǕGGȦ∂NKđ€ČHIŒβǾLʃÊN LPA Administrator

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    I research my politics. And it doesn't take a political science major to see how badly Bush fvcked up the economy.

    I'll always be voting democratic, but I would even vote for a different republican before voting for bush
     
  8. #8
    enfestid

    enfestid Guest




    Todd, I'm not saying you or anyone here... I'm just saying that Americans, as a whole, normally don't research their politics/candidates before they vote :)
     
  9. #9
    Anya

    Anya Lost LPA Super VIP

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    Anything that's not Bush..
     
  10. #10
    $pvcxGhxztCasey

    $pvcxGhxztCasey meanwhile... LPA Addicted VIP

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    Ralph Nader.


    >_<
     
  11. #11
    Jila

    Jila Super Member LPA Super Member

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    lets just say if bush gets re-elected, i may have to kill myself.

    anyone saying bush is better than kerry is freakin crazy. religion and the government shouldnt be mixed but thats exactly what hes doing. hes making his homophobic remarks saying gays are "sinners" and he wants to take away womens rights on abortions.

    plus, he approved the shipping of nuclear waste in yucca mountain which would require trucks/trains to go though here (las vegas) and do you know how much of a safety hazard that would be? there are f*cking millions of people here with all the tourists and sh*t, and also with all of the traffic and car accidents its really dangerous. kerry said if he was voted president he wouldnt approve of the yucca mtn. proposal.

    not only that, but bush has the lowest I.Q. than any other president (the second lowest being his father).

    bleh, and i got this from my friends livejournal:

    go bush!! woot!!
    [/sarcasm]
     
  12. #12
    Mark

    Mark Canadian Beauty LPA Administrator

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    Wow, Pyro. What a list. It really opens your eyes to how bad a president he is.

    If Bush gets re-elected you should all move to Canada. :lol:
     
  13. #13
    Todd

    Todd FLǕGGȦ∂NKđ€ČHIŒβǾLʃÊN LPA Administrator

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    I would if I wasn't in college :lol:

    I want to move to Canada anyways, when I get out of college and I somehow get a job offer in Canada, I'm there.

    So how aboot we meet up and have fun eh?
     
  14. #14
    Mark

    Mark Canadian Beauty LPA Administrator

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    I would if I wasn't in college :lol:

    I want to move to Canada anyways, when I get out of college and I somehow get a job offer in Canada, I'm there.

    So how aboot we meet up and have fun eh? [/b][/quote]
    Sounds good, give me a ring and I'll put on my parka and dogsled down.
     
  15. #15



    I don't know Kerry too well, and he might not be heaps better than Bush, but at this stage, having Bush in the White House for another term is out of the question. Look at the mess he's made already, both in and outside of America. Another four years and the world is on its way to Armageddon.

    Bush is bad, and that's as close to a FACT as it can be. If anyone needs convincing how Satanic he is, I've got another 40 reasons for that.

    EDIT: Oh what the heck. Let's just look at another couple of Bush's accomplishments during his time as President of the US of A:

    1. The national debt under Bush has increased so drastically that the average American's estimated share of national debt will be an astronomical $24,000 - compared to $500 when Dubya first took office.

    2. Under Bush there are now 45 million Americans with no health insurance.

    3. Responsible for an unemployment rate of 6%. There are now 9 million people out of work in America - 3.3 milliion more than when Bush Snr. took office.

    4. Cut healthcare benefits for war veterans.

    5. Bush deserted his unit during Vietnam and was reportedly AWOL for over a year from his assigned unit: the Texas Air National Guard, or as it's referred to by other military outfits, the "champagne division".

    6. Despite a 13% unemployment rate among those aged 16-24, Bush proposed to eliminate youth opportunity grants - a program that provides job training to the nation's youth. A $225 million program is now being done away with so Bush can have more money on Iraq.

    7. Cut funding for 375,000 low income college students and reduced pell grant amounts to such a severe degree that it effectively caused 84,000 students to no longer be eligible for pell grants. Pell amounts have been overall reduced from 1.5million students. It's safe to say that the Bush daughters aren't eligible for financial aid, so this won't affect the opulent lives of anyone Bush Jr. may know.

    8. Withdrew from the international criminal court.

    9. First president in US history to refuse UN election inspectors.

    10. All-time US/world record holder for most corporate campaign donations.

    11. The Bush admin has twice as many FBI agents fighting the drug war than fighting terrorism prior to 9/11. Even after 9/11, more than 2,000 agents are wasting their valuable time assigned to the war on drugs.

    12. His proposed "free trade" agreements would result in the loss of US jobs to foreign markets and the exploitation of third world workers.

    13. He has taken 11 official executive actions to undermine reproductive rights. How long will it be before a woman is stripped of her right to choose?

    14. Failed to fulfil pledge to get Osama bin Laden "dead or alive".

    15. Wasted federal resources on a PR trip to Baghdad where he staged a Thanksgiving meal at 6 AM with troops that were screened based on their political affiliation.

    16. His refusal to fire -or even reprimand - Lt. General Jerry "Our God Is Bigger Than Their God" Boykin. Perhaps it's because Boykin said of the president, "George Bush was not elected by a majority of voters in the US. He was appointed by God. He's in the White House because God put him there."

    17. After sending troops off to die in an unjust and unprovoked war, he still has yet to attend any soldiers' funeral.

    18. His shameless nepotism for the rich and powerful. Elizabeth Cheney (daughter of ol' Ricard) got hooked up with a cool gig at the state department where she was in charge of the $129 million Middle East partnership initiative, and then was moved over to Daddy and Uncle Dubya's campaign payroll.

    19. He slashed funding to the Violence Against Women Act.

    20. He has invaded and occupied two countries at a continuing cost $1 billion per week.

    21. He appointed Charles Pickering, a notorious segregationist from Mississippi, as a federal judge and suspiciously did so on Martin Luther King day.

    22. Bush has spent over $1 billion on Iraq, leaving states to face the largest budget crisis in decades and forced to cut off public services; now with the federal deficit at a new high, Bush Jr wants to award more tax breaks to the wealthy.

    23. Under new Bush legislation, power plants are allowed to emit triple the amount of highly-toxic mercury into the environment.

    24. He pulled out of the Kyoto Agreement on global warming, which had been agreed upon by 178 other countries.

    25. He set the records for the most executions by any governor in American history. 152 in total, some of whom were mentally disable.

    26. Bush has gone to great lengths to prevent investigation of his friends at Enron and Halliburton. More time and money was spent investigating the Monica Lewinsky affair than has been spent on one of the biggest corporate rip-offs in history.

    27. Responsible for a $521 billion budget deficit - less than 4 years after inheriting a $200 billion surplus.

    I've got more but Pyro's list tops mine.
     
  16. #16
    Todd

    Todd FLǕGGȦ∂NKđ€ČHIŒβǾLʃÊN LPA Administrator

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    IMO, Nader would be a great president, but, I wish he didnt run.

    Think about it, he doesn't have a snowmans chance in hell of winning and is the reason Gore lost (Gore could have won other states if it wasnt for Nader, making him the winner regardless of Florida) and could hurt Kerry. All the people that vote for Nader take away votes from Kerry. If all the extremley liberal people that vote for Nader voted for Kerry instead, Kerry would win the election.
     
  17. #17
    Glenn

    Glenn Super Member LPA Super Member

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    I can't vote, but I would for John Carry. Raising regular income taxes would help our schools.
     
  18. #18
    enfestid

    enfestid Guest




    I've noticed that pretty much no one has anything nice to say about Kerry yet besides Mark. I mean, honestly, I'm not trying to offend anyone's opinions here, but how can you vote for a President when you know nothing about him?

    That's Kerry's whole ballgame. He isn't keeping a particular side on anything and he's wishy-washy (changes his stance every opportunity he gets) when he does take a stance. If Kerry could give me a reason to vote for him I would. But he's shown me absolutely nothing. I mean, what am I voting for here? I want to know what I'm voting for.

    Let me just state for the record, though, that I don't think Bush is a good president. Unlike most of you, though, I don't find him to be a bad president. I think he's just another president that, when you look back on it, you'll be like 'Yeah, he didn't really do much, but I guess he was fine.'

    As far as his stance on gay marriage and abortion: does it really matter? Chances are the gay issues will be decided in the Supreme Court, not by Bush. And, the whole pro-life/pro-choice thing won't be decided while Bush (or Kerry, if he's elected) is in office. Heck, I'll be amazed if I see a solution to that by the end of my lifetime.

    Bush's IQ really has very little to do with the situation, too. I, for one, think that's the most overrated and useless fact next to the fact that Hitler was Time Magazine's man of the year. Bill Clinton had the highest IQ as president and he royally screwed us over a number of times. He stole from the White House, he had his obvious sexual relations with Monica, he pardoned murders and drug dealers (he pardoned more people than the past 3 presidents before him combined), and he signed a document that would have made Americans accountable by an international court. Doesn't sound like a big deal by itself, but when you think about all the laws that we don't have that the international court will/wouldn't have it's a much bigger issue. Interesting fact: if Bush hadn't gotten us out of this document/treaty, then Kerry would have to go to trial for the murdering of civilians, even though it's from a long time ago.

    As for the list that was posted: some of those are valid points, but a lot of them aren't the whole story. I mean, just look at the first comment -- "I attacked and took over two countries." Iraq I may give you as a bad situation (but even that, I think, is a good thing as long as Saddam is gone -- it had to happen sometime or else one of his sons would be in power, etc), but Afghanistan?! Please! Invading Afghanistan is the best possible thing that could have happened to that country. And, for the record, we do not control Afghanistan. There are lists like that all over the place for a ton of presidents. Both good and bad. I could find one about Iraq that stated all the good things that have happened there since America invaded, actually.

    But, I must disagree with whoever said that whoever votes for Bush is a moron. The person who votes for Kerry isn't a moron, either. The only morons are the ones who don't vote when they have the opportunity to, in my opinion. :)
     
  19. #19
    Mark

    Mark Canadian Beauty LPA Administrator

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    And I'm Canadian! :lol:
     
  20. #20
    enfestid

    enfestid Guest




    And I'm Canadian! :lol: [/b][/quote]
    :lol:

    I'm not sure if it's a good thing that you know more about our presidential candidates, or a bad thing ;)
     

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