I'm Not Exactly Defending Bush

Discussion in 'Serious Chat' started by Neil, Sep 9, 2005.

  1. #61
    iamrighthereandnow

    iamrighthereandnow Well-Known Member

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    that resistance fighters are todays Al-queda.

    bush makes profit from any disaster, as did his grandfather who didn't hesitate to invest money into nazis. the same deals were done for Iraq.

    there are people going missing and 'commiting suicides' under all administration, if clinton did it, please don't think bush doesn't

    so ten years ago USA didn't have to remove Saddam? why is that? was he any less evil then you claimed he is? why not liberate iraqi people at that time?

    plus, read what i posted on the illegality of the war and draw your own conclusions - i am gonna have to leave you to it as i'm out of this forum - i was just passing by as some free time on my hands this weekend, but that's it.
     
  2. #62
    Ether

    Ether Well-Known Member

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    WAH!...post count...i have a post count :eek: j/k

    Sorry for wishing someone a happy birthday....next time ill just start a whole new thread :p

    Anyway....i dont give a damn about bush quite frankly lol :D
    Other things going on in this world that deserve more attenion...
     
  3. #63
    Neil

    Neil Super Duper Member LPA Super Member

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    If that was meant seriously, you're the biggest wagon jumper of them all.


    Of course, Bush took out his magic wand, said "globa warma!" and stirred it around in circles. That way he made hurricanes, and as the immediate result of a weather phenomenon, Cheney is now filthy rich.
     
  4. #64
    saunderitos

    saunderitos Banned

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    Search Google. It's not hard at all -- you'll find the good things he's done (and also that list of "accomplishments" that's actual a list slamming him). If you want to find it, you will... if you don't, then you won't. Most people here don't want to find it, and all they'll do if I post links are post their reasons why they disagree with what he did was "good", so it's a lost cause for me to get people here to be bi-partisian.

    Shade: The 9/11 Report doesn't support him 100%. The 9/11 report and Fahrenheit 9/11 focus on mostly entirely different information for the most part, in fact. It agrees with him on some issues, but I'd say for the most part it is something entirely different.

    And, again, I don't mean to sound rude when I say this, but why are you all assuming that the two (the report and the movie) are linked? If you haven't read the report, or haven't seen the movie (or, worse, haven't done either), then why would you comment saying what they're about? [/b][/quote]
    if its so easy,just fucking tell us then
     
  5. #65
    Omar

    Omar Administrator LPA Super Member

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    Let's keep the convo calm, else it shall be closed.
     
  6. #66
    saunderitos

    saunderitos Banned

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    sorry admin :eek: :unsure: :(
     
  7. #67
    Ryan

    Ryan You Greasy Bastard LPA Super VIP

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    If that was meant seriously, you're the biggest wagon jumper of them all.


    Of course, Bush took out his magic wand, said "globa warma!" and stirred it around in circles. That way he made hurricanes, and as the immediate result of a weather phenomenon, Cheney is now filthy rich. [/b][/quote]
    I'm guessing by the rolleyes that he wasn't serious.

    Either way people really need to keep their opinions of Bush to themselves cause we have heard it all. What Michael Moore hasn't brought up ahs been by someone else. Since the American voters voted him back in there is notihng that can be done. So therefore, SUCK IT UP!!!!!!
     
  8. #68
    Mark

    Mark Canadian Beauty LPA Administrator

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    It was just under 3,000 (2,819). Not 30,000. You're grossly misinformed.

    The US said they had to go into Iraq because they had WMDs. There were no WMDs. That's what I call a grave mistake.

    And then they switched the whole motive of the war as a "liberation of Iraq" front to save face. Tell me how this couldn't of been done in the first place with UN support? The UN had already threatened "serious consequences" had Iraq not complied by UN guidelines. Why piss off the UN by saying "I don't care what you think, we're going into Iraq with no proof of them having WMDs." It's an illegal war in which you had no business going in there alone. Here's something controversial: you should be thrown out of the UN for such insubordination and carelessness. That'll never happen, though.

    You don't know how terrorists feel unless you are one. The interpretation you're voicing there is both a security blanket and incredibly biased. It's a "kill-or-be-killed" atmosphere nowadays. The terrorists did something terrible by attacking the US, and they have their own motives. The motives are justifiable in their eyes, but not by ours. You've attacked terrorists rightfully in Afghanistan because you knew terrorists were there. Good job.

    But the thing is, there was no link between Saddam/Iraq and Al Qaeda. There were no WMDs. There was no threat. There was no need for a "pre-emptive" strike when those things weren't present. What you're doing there in Iraq is completely unjustified and illegal. There is no justifiable motive. None. And before you say "well at least we got Saddam!", it was not the US' job to get rid of Saddam, and had you waited for UN approval (which was coming soon), your country would be a lot more safe and a lot less hated than they are now. But it's the US government, they can trample on anyone's toes and get away with it, unfortunately.

    I know it's normal for a family member of a soldier going to fight in a war to support his cause, but you should know the facts. And those facts are that Iraq was never a threat, they weren't a breading ground of terrorists, and there were no WMDs.

    There were 10,000 innocent Iraqi civilians killed by the "coalition of the willing" and the guerrilla fighters that they led into Iraq by February 2004. (Source). Estimates ranged from 15,000-20,000 nowadays. 2100 coalition soldiers are dead. Was it worth it? I certainly don't think so.

    That being said, you created the mess, so clean it up. I don't care what it takes. This never should've happened in the first place, though. I am disgusted.
     
  9. #69
    Luke

    Luke Mind Your Manners. LPA Addicted VIP

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    *Bows down to Mark*

    You've summed up everything I believe about this topic apart from this bit:

    I wouldn't say terrible just for attacking the US because I'm still sceptical about the attack on the US however it was terrible nonetheless but you seem to overlook other places which were attacked such as London, Spain etc.

    September 11th might be the worst thing yet to happen in terms of how many people died etc. but I would isolate it because other places were attack too.

    The American government is just a huge contradiction, they say these places are a threat because of their weapons of mass destruction without any hard evidence and yet they own the biggest supply of them...
     
  10. #70
    Mark

    Mark Canadian Beauty LPA Administrator

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    I used 9/11 because that's the only thing (s)he was talking about.
     
  11. #71
    Scarlet

    Scarlet Well-Known Member

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    I'm not all informed about Bush and all that stuff, but I don't like him at all. I can't point out any good he has done for us. I mean, I can even remember Bill Clinton doing good for us. But Bush... all he's done was started a war and I don't know... cause problems. I can't wait for a new president--hopefully he'll be better than Bush.
     
  12. #72
    Ryan

    Ryan You Greasy Bastard LPA Super VIP

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    Apparently nobody took any advice form my posts in this topic so this will be my last post in this topic.
     
  13. #73
    Mark

    Mark Canadian Beauty LPA Administrator

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    I have an opinion and I'm going to voice it no matter if it makes a difference or not. I have a right to express my thoughts and sentiments and the fact that I'm powerless should have no bearing on how I choose to convey my opinion.

    Doing what you advise is what quitters do. I am not a quitter.

    Therefore if you have nothing to contribute to the topic, take your own advice and leave it be. ;)
     
  14. #74
    Razan

    Razan SUGAAAR!

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    I'm guessing by the rolleyes that he wasn't serious.

    Either way people really need to keep their opinions of Bush to themselves cause we have heard it all. What Michael Moore hasn't brought up ahs been by someone else. Since the American voters voted him back in there is notihng that can be done. So therefore, SUCK IT UP!!!!!! [/b][/quote]
    People have the right to voice their opinions and they shouldn't keep it to themselves, they should open their mouths and be heard.
    So what if we're the minority? People shouldn't just suck it up while a moron goes around fucking up the world. I know that I'm not just going to sit here and, as you so ediquately put it, "suck it up" while all this shit is happening if I could do something. I'm not going to resist what I think is right, just because it won't make a difference because in the long run, maybe it will.
    I'm not saying that he should get impeached, I'm saying that the people should have some control over his decisions and be able to say, no!

    I'm not attacking you personally, I just totally disagree with "sucking it up".

    EDIT: I just read your last post and sorry but I just can't keep my mouth shut if I think something is wrong. I don't see why you've left.

    Mark, you're answear to Paper Cut was brilliant, couldn't have put it better myself. *claps*
     
  15. #75
    Ryan

    Ryan You Greasy Bastard LPA Super VIP

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    People have the right to voice their opinions and they shouldn't keep it to themselves, they should open their mouths and be heard.
    So what if we're the minority? People shouldn't just suck it up while a moron goes around fucking up the world. I know that I'm not just going to sit here and, as you so ediquately put it, "suck it up" while all this shit is happening if I could do something. I'm not going to resist what I think is right, just because it won't make a difference because in the long run, maybe it will.
    I'm not saying that he should get impeached, I'm saying that the people should have some control over his decisions and be able to say, no!

    I'm not attacking you personally, I just totally disagree with "sucking it up".

    EDIT: I just read your last post and sorry but I just can't keep my mouth shut if I think something is wrong. I don't see why you've left.

    Mark, you're answear to Paper Cut was brilliant, couldn't have put it better myself. *claps* [/b][/quote]
    Alright all I meant is that I was gonna leave the topic because to me it was going nowhere. But now I have new incentive cause I guess I'm a quitter. All I'm trying to say is that Bush is elected to office for a second term and hes gonna be there until four years are up. Everytime Bush does something that someone doesn't like it just sounds like the same bashing that we heard the first time he screwed up. Half the time people are bashing them they are just going with th majority of what other people are doing and saying. Or because their favorite punk band is advocating against Bush. I mean i know thats not the case with Mark and yourself and a few others. But in reality you have to suck it up and move on, cause tlaking about how dumb Bush is is that really doing anything. Is voicing your opinion really doing anything? Probably not, actually I can guarantee u it isn't. I'm just saying if you wanna do something that might have and impact go out there and do it cause I dont think making a post on an internet forum will do anything, only create arguments that go nowhere.

    To Mark I'm not saying you have to be a quitter but like i said earlier posting your opinion in an internet forum will have no impact on the situation what soever. All it does it let you vent a little frustration. So like I said if you actually wanna make a difference go out there and do sometihng about it. But seeing as how your a canadian citizen thats gonna make it even more harder for you. Its also kinda weird how you can pick apart every last thing that Bush has done, but when the Canadian liberals were found to have done a sponsorship scandle, who was nowhere to be found?
     
  16. #76
    Mark

    Mark Canadian Beauty LPA Administrator

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    That's because there was nothing started here by anyone to discuss it. Who, other than Canadians, care or even know about the sponsorship scandal? Not many. That's why there's not much discussion. Whereas Bush's screw-ups are more of an international thing, and thus, more discussed.

    On another note, I think what the Liberals did was wrong, but am I willing to help hand the government over to the Conservatives because of that one thing? No. That's mainly because even though what the Liberals did was wrong, I would hate to see this country led by the Tories. Think of everything great and different about this country that everybody envies. Now imagine that torn apart by the Conservatives. Not a pretty picture. But of course, that's just my take on it. Western Canadians have a different perspective on it, I feel. But that's neither here nor there, because this isn't the right place to discuss it.

    You're right, this is an internet forum. But internet forums are filled with opinions and discussion. 99% of the things we discuss in here, we have no control over. That 99% of the forum discussion will have no "impact on the situation". But should we stop voicing our opinions because they don't have any impact? I think not. If you don't like strong opinions, forums aren't exactly the place to stay away from them. The main point of a forum is discussion, and no matter whether your opinion counts towards the situation or not, all members have the right to express themselves without being fearful of having others come down on them and say they're powerless. That's censorship, in a way. You may consider it a waste of time, but many of us who voice our opinions want to get our message out there and express ourselves. Our opinions are important to us, and we're going to voice them no matter how much of an impact they make.
     
  17. #77
    J-Flex

    J-Flex Ambient

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    Regarding to all Bush's mistakes i will never forget how he rescued the people of Iraq from Saddam
     
  18. #78
    Razan

    Razan SUGAAAR!

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    I'm sorry but I'm so fed up of this stupidity! How is bombing innocent Iraqi children helping people? They were WAY better off with Saddam than this chaos. Those pictures you see of happy Iraqis were before the war started! American soldiers used to do unimaginable things to Iraqi citizens before they got sued. (Yes, they got sued, in America, and most people still don't know that.)
    Have you ever seen the pictures of when the soldiers took a guy, stripped him naked, put his underwear on his head and made him suck some dogs dick? Have you ever seen the pictures of a Muslim Sheikh forced only to wear a red thong in a jail cell full of girls? (That might sound like heaven to some of you but when you're a religious person, I think not.)
    I get so fucking pissed off when people say that Bush freed Iraq? Thousands are dying, its utter chaos, every single day at least a couple of people die, houses are robbed, there are curfews (anyone goes out after that and they're shot), everyone's getting beaten up and raped, it's just fucking horrible.

    Explain to me how all of that brought freedom.

    I have relatives there and it feels like shit, I get a fever, my stomach hurts like hell everytime I here about an explosion wondering if it's them, waiting for a call saying that something happened to someone, SO DON'T FUCKING TELL ME THAT BUSH BROUGHT FREEDOM TO IRAQ!

    Btw, I didn't flame anyone and I'm not "disrespecting the brave American soldiers" because I know what it feels like to have family over there and I sympathize with all the families of the soldiers that passed away in this pointless war.

    Papercut, you talk about going to a corner and crying in peace, imagine what it feels like to be writing this...
     
  19. #79
    Ryan

    Ryan You Greasy Bastard LPA Super VIP

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    Alright Mark I'm not saying that you shouldn't voice your opinion becasue it isn't gonna count towards anything amd isn't gonna make anykind of a difference. I'm just saying that there have been so many Bush topics on these forums and every single one turns into a pissing contest of the people who support Bush over those who hate Bush. For example look at the last comment made by Razan, "I'm sorry but I'm so fed up of this stupidity!" so he jumps all over him cause the guy tihnks that the americans liberated Iraq. Everyone has thoer own opinon and I dont see why everytihng has to turn into a debate and an argument. For one, anyone who supports Bush is pretty much useless voicing their opinion on these forums cause there is an abundance of Bush haters on this site as opposed to people who support Bush. Unless they dont care that they make a comment and five or six other members jump all over their opinion. As another point look at what this topic was all about when it was started and somehow it got turned into a fricken heated discussion on how Bush is such an idiot and a peice of shit leader. But then again maybe its just me.



    PS. Hey Mark Canada isn't like the US there are many alternatives to voting for the Liberals in Canada. Nobody said that if your not voting for the Liberals that you are supporting the Tories.
     
  20. #80
    Razan

    Razan SUGAAAR!

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    I'm a she! :lol: I am so offended.

    Everyone does have a right to their own opinion but it is a fact that Bush did not liberate Iraq but instead destroyed it.

    This is how the topic started and this is what its like now. It was heated up from the start.
     

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