Do you like having roads to drive on? Do you like having paramedics to rush you to the hospital if you get sick and firefighters to help you if you have a fire in your house? Schools to send your children to, hurricane, tornado and tsunami warning systems to warn you of an impending natural disaster? Police to keep criminals off the street? If you answered yes to any of those questions, then we need income taxes. If you answered no, try moving to an anarchy. I hear Somalia is nice this time of year, just watch out for the pirates and Al Qaeda.
Take into consideration the size of our debt, how much the government actually makes off income tax (i.e. how much it would lose if we didn't pay an income tax), and as Todd said, what the government actually does with our income tax...and you will find that the government will not be able to do very much without it. An income tax is necessary, whether you like it or not. People need to stop bitching about how the government is taking their money for whatever. There is a reason we have a lot of the things we have. So many people don't even think, "Oh, we have to PAY for these services?" Well of course you fucking do. Nothing is free. EDIT: Apologies in advance, I mean no offense with what I say, I'm just kinda pissed about what I've read in this thread so far.
Because the politicians are paid off, the national debate centers around cutting home heating oil subsidies for the poor instead of corporate welfare, especially in the defense department. Healthcare and education are not what's really bankrupting the country. Are you jealous of U.S. soldiers getting to shower in the wild, exotic, poisonous Iraqi waters? Do you toss and turn at night because the local water treatment plant is regulated by the state and isn't allowed to flourish in an open, free market? Socialism! Well fear no more, because there's finally a man who will bring the Wild West of the Iraq war into your bathrooms. Vote for Ron Paul and you'll get to shower in poisonous water every morning! Your dream of raising your children in a world where Wall Street executives decide whether they live or die will finally come true! I'm the Constitution and I approve this message.
Where do you propose the government gets its money from with no income taxes? Corporate taxes? Guess what, Ron Paul wants to get rid of those too. He wants no taxes, a nonexistent government and a country where its every man for themselves.
Unless you have something substantial to contribute to this thread, avoid making these posts. Thanks.
The registered sex offender (aka disgusting pedophile) that lives down my street is a Ron Paul supporter. Just thought I'd add that to this thread. Carry on.
For what it's worth, his head is in the right place on a social standpoint. He even expressed that he was ok if states decided to legalize Heroin at a Republican debate. But I completely disagree with his views on how the government should work.
It's just hard to debate with people when they make every stance from a politician an extreme viewpoint instead of a rational one. That's like saying someone who supports abortion hates babies and will run the country in some evil way just because of that one belief. Therefore lol was the only response I could think of at the time. So since our government is in debt, they should just keep milking our already terrible wages in order to make up their debt? Should we be taxed even more because they are so much in debt? And if that happens, all businesses will just keep raising their prices so their bottomline doesn't drop, causing us to pay more money while our wages are shrinking due to more taxes. So we'll just have to end up paying more money with our smaller wallets. Where does it end? Once our economy totally crashes and we're forced to reform from nothing?
Well, depressions are a bitch. How do you suppose we get out of this debt if we don't pay taxes? I would also argue that you think the opposing philosophy is "extreme." You make it sound like if we keep paying taxes, we're all going to be homeless or what have you. Sure, maybe you won't be able to buy that new car you wanted, but we can all still live comfortably. Please, enlighten us on how we get rid of the debt with no income tax.
Exactly what I would ask. There are some things we have to consider here. The first is that, like Todd, Dumbledore (Ben?) and I have said, there is no way to provide for the services we need, let alone reduce our debt, without paying an income tax. It is absolutely necessary, and while it is preferred that we are taxed less, no tax at all is the most threatening thing to the stability of our country and the services it provides. Secondly, the debt was caused in major part by *how* the Bush administration spent money and what it spent money on. I don't know the details 100%, but my assumption is that so much money went to the military, and of course, there was close to zero-payoff in this venture. Countries lose money in "wars," so obviously we have a problem here in regards to how much money the government has. Third of all, if you're concerned about people losing their money, then they should be careful about spending it. The economic recession we experienced, and its effects that we are still dealing with, was caused in major part by the fact that people were spending money they didn't have. This inevitably leads to things like a recession, and recessions continue when people become unwilling to spend *some* money to keep the economy going. In other words, people just don't know when and how to spend money and how much of it to spend where. It was also because the banks were stupid, and because huge-ass corporations, which most Republicans and people like Ron Paul support, were stupider. It almost had nothing to do with the income tax. The tax would only ever become a burden if people began to lose their money elsewhere, and that's something that can be prevented with wise decision-making.
Keynesian economics is fine. Federal spending it out of control, no doubt, but I'm not convinced that using the U.S. as a guinea pig for Austrian-School theories is the answer.
The problem is that citizens are in debt and the government is in debt. For our economy to get better, we the people have to start making more money, which starts with not giving back like 30% of our income to Uncle Sam. For our government to get out of debt, they have to tax us more or find other unknown ways to accumulate money. Both aren't good scenarios, but I'd rather people spend their own money how they like than have just as irresponsible people in the government spending our money in useless fashion. That's the problem. People are, including our government, spending money inefficiently. I have absolutely no gripe about paying taxes if the fucking government was spending it on necessities. But when you see all the money we've wasted in the last 10 years or so (what are we, like 14 trillion in debt?), you have to wonder why we're even paying taxes to these idiots.
You have to have a little more faith in the government then. Remember that crackhead Bush who was in office for 8 of those 10 years that you described? Yeah, he's gone now. You, along with a lot of America, simply have to give Obama more time.
Exactly. The US' gross federal debt as a percentage of GDP has steadily risen since GWB entered office. Obama inherited a huge debt when he took office, and the global recession did not help things one bit. Obama isn't exactly spending the U.S. into the ground.
Way to fuckin' generalize Derek, holy shit. How do you get away with saying something like that, but if I said it, I'd get lynched one way or another. Yeah, I'm a Ron Paul supporter. Sue me.