Does Mike Shinoda limit himself?

Discussion in 'Linkin Park Chat' started by AaronJxD, Jul 24, 2015.

  1. #61
    TEGCRocco

    TEGCRocco The LPL Invader

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    I'm just going to point out how War is their take at a punk song, so expecting just about anything other than what we got was a bit silly, and you would absolutely be let down. From the moment I heard that War was punk, I knew it would be incredibly simplistic instrumentally and lyrically. You don't have to like it, though.


    Regarding the actual topic, I'm able to look past sub-par lyrics if the melody is good and the instrumental has substance. Until It's Gone is honestly the best example of this. The lyrics are pretty shit, especially when compared to some of the other tracks on the album, but Chester's delivery and the rather atmospheric instrumental saves it.

    I think that ATS was their best effort in regards to instrumental substance and lyrical power. While yes, there were moments where there was room for more texture to give that extra punch to the song, the album as a whole does a pretty good job in my opinion. Tracks like The Requiem, which used a ton of layered tracks and several samples of other songs from the album, really makes for the band's most creative album opener in my opinion. Then there are tracks like Robot Boy, where the instrumental and vocal delivery are both rather monotonous and repetitive for the first 2/3 of the song or so. I actually think that was a brilliant move, and fits well thematically with the song itself. Bigger really isn't always better, though I do still agree that The Catalyst could have benefited from some more creative production, even though it is one of my favorite LP songs.
     
  2. #62
    MagmaXtreme

    MagmaXtreme Well-Known Member

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    I actually liked "War" after hearing it the first few times, and I wasn't expecting some 'true punk' ethos to be conveyed from it so well considering it is LP. I'm just evaluating the track as it is in the context of other music out there, and acknowledge that it may be unrealistic to have expected a much better result for the song.

    I do however believe that if LP had established good habits in writing decent or great lyrics consistently then that would be reflected in "War", as it would be in other songs. That's another thing I wonder about too, whether the band, throughout the years of 're-inventing their sound', has missed opportunities in pushing their song writing forward because they had not maintained certain habits as a group.

    Mike has written some really good lyrics in the past (outro of "And One", "Esaul" was heading in a better direction lyrically than "A Place For My Head", "Until It Breaks" did show some interesting lyrical content). If he made a point of writing like this all the time and worked on continuously improving his lyricism, we would be spared some cringe-worthy lines today. Same goes for Chester I think, though his lyricism has sometimes been better outside LP when you look at his work with STP.

    Honestly, I would probably enjoy a lot of LP's songs, including "War", a lot more if they just had something interesting to say or are saying something (which may have already been said before hundreds of times in music) in a creative manner, songs like "Until It's Gone" are a terrible example of this.
     
  3. #63
    Atticus

    Atticus Bullets lance the bravest lungs

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    Exactly. It blows my mind how so many people instantly write off songs on this forum due to the lyrical content. For me melody always comes first, and for that reason, Until It's Gone is one of Linkin Park's greatest alt-rock anthems. The instrumental is unreal and Chester's vocal progression in the song is amazing.
     
  4. #64
    minuteforce

    minuteforce Danny's not here, Mrs. Torrance. LPA Team

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    I actually like "Until It's Gone" through and through. Even the lyrics :lol: but I digress

    For me, personally, lyrics are often a make-or-break thing. This wasn't the case when I heard "Hybrid Theory" and "Meteora" for the first time, but it is the case now. The band take their lyrics seriously too, priding themselves on how they explore universal emotions, rewriting choruses forty times and so on

    Melodies and sonics do go a long way to contextualising lyrics, obviously, which affecfs how they'll be perceived by the listener.
     
  5. #65
    MagmaXtreme

    MagmaXtreme Well-Known Member

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    Chester's adroit knack for melody is one the things which makes LP great in it's own way. I do have to say his vocal progression in UIG makes the song resonate with me to an extent, it was one the things that really made me like the song when I first heard it.

    But considering UIG's weaknesses (not just the lyrics, the mixing is questionable in the first verse as the vocals are drowned a bit, and the solo bridge is a little weak on there too IMO) it's not an LP song which will stand the test of time. I reckon people who like it now will probably forget it once the next album is out.
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2015
  6. #66
    minuteforce

    minuteforce Danny's not here, Mrs. Torrance. LPA Team

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    The band themselves are about to forget about it if they haven't already, and fans ... fans are fickle.
     
  7. #67
    iPodwithnomusic

    iPodwithnomusic Lift me up, Let me go

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    I care about the lyrics, more about the instrumental, but even more about how the song just sounds. And honestly, I like almost all the lyrics in LP's songs. Until It's Gone has simple lyrics, but I like them. There are so many (non-LP) songs with lyrics about girls, drugs, etc. and I just can't stand them. LP always has decent lyrics, that although they may not blow my mind, they are consistent and I am happy to sing along with them and aren't left confused or disappointed.
     
  8. #68
    minuteforce

    minuteforce Danny's not here, Mrs. Torrance. LPA Team

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    You can't stand lyrics about girls? :rolleyes: That's different
     
  9. #69
    iPodwithnomusic

    iPodwithnomusic Lift me up, Let me go

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    That's not exactly what I meant, but there are a lot of rap songs about girls / sex, and it just feels so stale. I'm glad LP never writes like that.
     
  10. #70
    Michele

    Michele Praise Brad Delson, our Lord and Savior. LPA Addict

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    Because this lyrics just fits into songs from bands ala Guns N Roses and Led Zeppelin :halfkappa:
     
  11. #71
    minuteforce

    minuteforce Danny's not here, Mrs. Torrance. LPA Team

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    Well, for better or worse, Linkin Park are far from bonafide hip-hop artists, and, if they ever tried that kind of subject matter, it would invariably be disgusting and cringeworthy. Be glad not just because you don't like that stuff yourself, but also because there's no way in hell LP could pull it off. Shinoda rapping about his taste in women would likely make you nauseous.
     
  12. #72
    Michele

    Michele Praise Brad Delson, our Lord and Savior. LPA Addict

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    It would make us hate the humanity in all of us :kappa:
     
  13. #73
    Xero-G

    Xero-G Reborn LP Fan, and plan to stay that way.

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    Regardless of what people say about Mike's rapping ability/talents, there's no way he would rap about girls, drugs, parties, etc. and expect it to be taken seriously. The only song that has party/clubbing themes in it, as far as I know, is Cover and Duck from Fort Minor: We Major. That song is definitely not serious and, if anything, parodies music about dancing by having more aggressive-than-usual lyrics. It describes a typical, fancy party turning into a wild, out-of-control mosh pit! Also, I have more than enough faith in Mike that he won't resort to lyrical themes even more cliche than some that he's used in the past, though I feel he's done a pretty good job of not being too cliche.

    I wonder what would happen if a popular night club played Cover and Duck while most attendees were expecting EDM :devil:
     
  14. #74
    minuteforce

    minuteforce Danny's not here, Mrs. Torrance. LPA Team

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    Those Fort Minor songs weren't really about clubbing but about performing shows, perhaps at clubs. "There They Go" and "Cover And Duck" are prominent examples
     
  15. #75
    Xero-G

    Xero-G Reborn LP Fan, and plan to stay that way.

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    I know that There They Go was about live performances and dismissing the critics. But I really do get a club/party vibe from Cover and Duck, with the "party" spiraling out of control once Fort Minor steps on stage. Mike even has a line where he says, "What the f--- man, you spilled my Cristal all over me!" By the way, Cover and Duck is one of my absolute favorite FM songs. I almost wish it would have been on The Rising Tied, since it features Celph Titled. It could have even replaced The Battle, which also has Celph Titled on it, and since it's such a short track.
     
  16. #76
    minuteforce

    minuteforce Danny's not here, Mrs. Torrance. LPA Team

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    At least Celph got a proper verse on "The Battle". Or half of one. His style was far more suited to the mixtape. His verse on "All Night" is killer -- I only came to understand the punchline at the end last year, haha. Lightbulb moment.

    But, yeah, I get your point re: "Cover And Duck". IMO, Shinoda goes in on that track, not lyrically but in terms of nailing the vibe
     
  17. #77
    MagmaXtreme

    MagmaXtreme Well-Known Member

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    Yea Mike has been consistent in 'nailing the vibe' of songs throughout his career, it's one of the elements that makes him so successful.

    Speaking of Fort Minor, anyone notice/hear the different style of rapping in "Welcome" and what it sounds like it could be influenced by?

    Seems Mike has picked up on the trends in the rap world and adopted this in his own work, the way he raps (while still not being lyrically impressive) has a nicer, more fluid flow within each line IMO (though not strictly so but better than in past FM projects).
     

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