U STEVE ALBINI?!?!?! Seriously though, I think it depends on the band/artist in question. Some might not have a clear idea of what direction they want to go in and would, in their eyes, benefit from collaborating with a producer. Others might not feel that they need any outside help whatsoever. It's all relative.
Got me. In fact, I should just post Albini quotes instead of making my own arguments. Imo, if you're band that has no idea what you want your album to sound like, you should probably sit down as a band and work it out. Also imo, if you need an outside opinion, you should ask your close friends, that dude who takes photos at your shows and friends in other bands. And you shouldn't give them paychecks for it.
And there's nothing wrong with that. But how is that any more valid than working with someone with more experience? If I like the albums that Kurt Ballou produces, por ejemplo, and respect his opinion, why shouldn't I work with him? Why is that laughable? Why does someone as creative as Trent Reznor work with Atticus Ross in any capacity? Of course no one needs a producer. No one needs to make music at all. People do these things because they want to. (Well, most of the time, at least. Major label politics are a bitch.)
Right. He said "Lol@ even using a producer for creative input." Not all producers are the same. Some get more involved with the music than others, which is why I disagree with the notion that producers are somehow pointless in principal. Plenty of artists have had fruitful collaborations with producers.
Except Atticus is part of the group. He isn't overseeing the project. Atticus plays multiple instruments as well as hones in Trent's abilities.
I like a lot of albums which have producers give some creative input on. I don't see how anyone says that those albums should never have been made. They consist of enjoyable music to a great many people. What is the problem?
Now you're needlessly getting into semantics. He's credited as a producer. Regardless of any other contributions he's made, Trent Reznor saw fit to credit him a producer, not as a member of Nine Inch Nails. Therefore, I consider him a producer. We could debate all day over what constitutes a producer, but I've already established that a producer's role is kind of amorphous anyway. I'm merely using their collaborations as an example. But since I doubt you'll let this go, replace Trent Reznor and Atticus Ross with The Beatles and George Martin or Radiohead and Nigel Godrich or who the fuck ever. The point is, a producer's purpose differs from project to project, which is why I disagree with tarring all of them with the same brush. No, Atticus Ross doesn't oversee all of a NIN project. Not every producer serves the same function.
I'm kind of with timothy here. Does Lp really, truly need Rick Ruben? No. In fact they almost went without him and gave the producer credit to mike. But they felt as though they needed somewhat of a guiding hand I guess. An extra opinion. Which is what Rubin does and it fit perfectly really. Corey obviously needed someone more hands on. Someone to say, "No that was bad go do it again." And in Trent's case Atticus is practically a band mate. So it just depends on the artist. So some are looking for bumpers on the side of the bowling alley, some are looking for that thing you put the ball on top of and then you roll it down the ramp. . . I just ruined my argument with that analogy
Okay sure, you're allowed to use one if you want to. Seems a bit incompetent to me though. On a side note, Ballou seems to be much more of a recording engineer/mixer than a producer. However, I am talking out my ass.
Atticus Ross is a creative consultant on most Nine Inch Nails projects. The producer tag is just a perk of working with Trent for so long.
Ruben not caring what people think of him. He's too busy making albums, winning awards, and seeing all he helped goes into R&R Hall of Fame! *shrugs*
This is what I mean. Not every producer fills the same role. Some pretty much are creative consultants. Some get involved with the music to the point where they could almost be considered a member of a band. Some are just on board to keep the ship running smoothly, so to speak. Some are all of those things. Some are none of those things. Again, we're getting into semantics here. I don't even know what any of this has to do with Rick Rubin, so I'll just say that I can't help but think that his beard probably stinks.
As someone who makes a decent portion of their living working in recording studios / environments, I can definitely see eye to eye with the viewpoint of those who view Ruben's "Executive Producer" style to be a bit too hands-off to match his price tag. (Although it would seem that some bands prefer it.) As for the role a producer should fill: Whilst it is sometimes the case that a producer has a greater influence on a bands creativity, most producers aren't hired to be a band's driver... they are hired to be the roadsigns along the way to the a band's destination. Think of it somewhere between movie director, and a trusted critic: A producer who is worth his salt will attend pre-production sessions where he listens to the band's music and remarks on the memorability or meanderring nature of given sections. If a part is too forgettable he might suggest slight changes to arrangements, but not necessarily... During a recording, he isn't just offerring "it would be better this way" comments... A producer is the guy who you pay to say "That take wasn't good enough", "Tune your guitar... yes... AGAIN!!".. "That solo is cool, but it's distracting in this section because it's not in the same key as the song.." and more often "Your performance was good on a technical level, but I want to believe what you're singing.. try to concentrate more on what you're singing, and less on how you're singing it." ... In the end, the producer's job has more to do with making sure that the finished product has all of the ingredients that a band was hoping to include when they interviewed said producer, and presented their vision.