Barack Obama

Discussion in 'Serious Chat' started by The Fortunate One, Apr 29, 2011.

  1. #21
    The Fortunate One

    The Fortunate One Well-Known Member

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    It does affect how America is viewed across the globe. If it was trivial he wouldn't have cared about it in the first place, no? It isn't the only thing he has changed his views on. I'm not suggesting anyone better than him, clearly there were much worse presidents. I'm just saying these things add up in the end. I was presenting one aspect of the problem.
     
  2. #22
    Benjamin

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    Again, it's trivial compared to the more important issues that we have.
     
  3. #23
    ThaHandyman

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    I believe 'important' his highly subjective.
     
  4. #24
    Benjamin

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    Meh, not really. At least with the subject of torturing.
     
  5. #25
    Vriska

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    South America is different in that whenever a president goes too far left, the right throws a military coup and creates a new government. And for them this is sort of regular for them. Brazil's been through several constitutions by now. This pattern isn't really echoed on the other continents as consistently as it is down south.

    Nonetheless, you're right. I was trying to say he lacked a backbone rather than being centrist. I got those ideas mixed up.
    At least he's not Sarah Palin.
     
  6. #26
    Doris The Spider

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    I have no nice words.....
     
  7. #27
    Todd

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    And why is that?
     
  8. #28
    Doris The Spider

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    Because I don't think he has done anything to help this country. Now that could be argued in regards to Healthcare but I'm against Obamacare.
     
  9. #29
    Canadian Joe

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    I won't lie, having mostly-universal healthcare is pretty fuckin' sweet.

    No dealing with juggling premiums. No having coverage denied. No paying outrageous fees and extra premiums or being denied altogether because of a "pre-existing condition".

    Sure, we pay more taxes. But it all works out...and if I get very sick tomorrow, I don't lose my house, car, and have all kinds of bill collectors hounding after me for years to come for a five or six digit medical bill. Fuck that noise.

    Just my two cents. Your guys' system down there is majorly fucked, and needs an overhaul. Whether or not Obamacare is the overhaul that it needs is still widely open for debate...but I think it's still a step, whether small or large, in the right direction. The way things are now are frankly sickening (pardon the pun).
     
  10. #30
    Todd

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    Yeah, our system is shit. No one should go broke because they get sick. You guys have higher taxes, but, I pay about $100 bucks a month (and I get off cheap, my employer has a pretty decent health insurance package) for my health insurance premiums, plus, I have to pay a co-pay for each doctor visit. So in the end, what's the difference? I'd rather have that $100/mo go towards higher taxes to give me the peace of mind that if I lose my job, I will still have health insurance coverage and that if I get very sick and require a long hospital stay or long term treatment for a chronic illness that I'll be able to get it.
     
  11. #31
    SuperDude526

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    ...That hasn't happened for 30 years now? It's pretty much a staple of democratic theory: the middling base.


    Agreed on all counts. Honestly, I'm a WITT; I like having a large safety net. Sure it costs a lot in taxes, but I'd rather have something to fall back on than have to strike it out entirely on my own.
     
  12. #32
    Canadian Joe

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    I pay less than a third of that (my employer pays the lion's share). The co-pay that you have to cough up for each visit is fairly heinous - - we haven't got that here. A doctor visit is (in most cases) 100% covered.

    All Canadians are eligible for universal coverage for certain things, and for those things that aren't covered (additional dental/optical benefits, travel coverage, etc, etc), certain private insurance is used - - but most reputable employers pay the majority of the premiums.

    Emergency room treatment, family physicians, a large amount of medication, and a great many other things - - all of those are covered by the universal system.

    Higher taxes in support of your fellow citizens, and a "quasi-socialist" healthcare system, are not a bad thing, folks. Look north of the 49th - - last time I checked, Canada isn't in financial or economic shambles, we don't have regular, hardworking people losing almost everything they own because of a sickness that's completely out of control, we don't have large corporations deciding what kind of care we can or cannot get for ourselves, our loved ones, or anyone else, for that matter - - if treatment is needed, it's given, and the bill is hashed out later at a more sensible time, and most often with whatever kind of assistance that person needs from the federal government. And - - shocker - - it's a well-liked and well-received system that doesn't generate the type of absolutely bitter divide that it does in a certain country.

    I can name one country that *does* face those exact problems right now, though - - and a lot of them stemming from Big Pharma and the like.

    I'd say that BO is going down the right path here. And a lot of people are either too blind, or making too much money off the current system, to accept that.

    Just my two cents.

    (also, before anyone takes this the wrong way, this isn't an unrestrained shot at the USA. I love your country. This is just the view from the North on a certain issue that's been raised.)
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2011
  13. #33
    Todd

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    You're going to have to define that one for me. What does WITT mean?
     
  14. #34
    aki*lp

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    [video=youtube;k8TwRmX6zs4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8TwRmX6zs4&feature=player_embedded[/video]

    I love this video. If your president can put an asshole like Donald Trump in his place, I'd say he's pretty cool. And I agree with Dean, if I were American, I would vote for Obama, still. Having Sarah Palin as your vice president would be a total nightmare.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 1, 2011
  15. #35
    Benjamin

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    Obama is #winning. Holy hell, that video was hilarious.
     
  16. #36
    ThaHandyman

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    As a conservative, I don't think Palin or Trump will be anywhere close in the race for a primary candidate, nor should they. Trumps speech about how proud of himself he was was embarrassing, and Palin...I like her values but she's made a joke of herself.
     
  17. #37
    Gloomy Mushroom

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    I think Obama is actually quite a positive influence on the American political system. I know for a fact he was trying to get laws changed that provided the American society with better benefits, and was stopped in congress by jackasses who thought with their pockets. For once, I don't think I can badmouth an American President.


    Cos Canadians have one of the best healthcare systems in the world, closely followed by England?

    Australian healthcare might not be in the best state as it could be in, but my God, I appreciate it so much better because it's not ruled by insurance companies. I mean, I was in hospital with bub for 13 days, undergoing lifesaving neonatal surgery and the only thing I had to pay for, was the television to be on. I know they could've refused me in the States all because I don't have insurance.
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2011
  18. #38
    travz21

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    Ron Paul.
     
  19. #39
    SuperDude526

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    It goes like this:

    Liberals are WITTs, Conservatives are YOYOs.

    WITT = We're in this together. Social welfare programs, the safety net, we're all trying to make it so we might as well all try to help each other out.

    YOYO = You're on your own. I worked hard for what I've earned, so I have the right to keep what I earn and use it for me and my own.

    Neither of them is a bad philosophy actually and they're both just different ways of viewing one's place in society. I just happen to be a WITT.

    The problem though is the Tea Party, which is WITTYOYO: Take care of me, but don't make me pay for it!
     
  20. #40
    Benjamin

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    In that case, I hate "YOYO's." Like, with a passion. Yeah.

    I think it's a terrible philosophy that basically suggests that it doesn't care about poor people. If all politicians thought this way, America would turn into a third world country. Anyone would have a hard time convincing me otherwise.
     

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