Saoberlinwaves, I was all prepared to say, "I disagree, but I respect your views and how eloquent you make your arguments," until I saw what appears to be support for the Tea Party. I apologize, but I can't support a movement that is 89% white with a majority being male Republicans over the age of 45 that still believe that Barack Obama was not born in the US. I live in Texas, a decidedly Republican state, and the vast majority of Tea Party supporters that I've run into (which is a great deal) are uninformed and hypocritical. They support finding constitutionality in every law yet default to religious beliefs for things such as gay marriage. Their ideas on simplifying the tax system, while nice in theory, doesn't really work out. They want the code to be limited to the word count of the Constitution. The Constitution is short in that it's a set of guidelines, a framework if you will. When you get into more specific issues such as taxing, the documentation is going to be longer due to it being a very specific system where, if vague and/or shortened due to such a regulation, can be abused. I consider myself Independent. I primarily lean Democratic because I agree with their issues more, but I don't ascribe myself to that party. From my point of view, the Tea Party just seems all sorts of wrong. I don't agree with most, if not all, of their methods or ideology in that while being theoretically good ideas, would simply not work. That and I've met quite a few racist Tea Party activists. Being called a Chinese communist trying to bring socialism into America and having soda cans thrown at me kind of makes my bias toward the Tea Party justified.
Well, Minus, you appear to be a stronger man than I. I could not have made a comment about some of Saoberlinwaves views without obtaining an infraction or possibly an instant ban. I applaud you for keeping the discussion civilized and doing what I could not. Still, I will try now. @Sabolinwaves I agree mostly with Minus and have considered myself Independent for a few years. From all the interviews, and some people I have personally met that support the Tea Party , the majority have been misinformed and could even be said to be racists and bigot hypocrites that would find arguments to support their case and ignore the fact that it would be against the values of America and ultimately would not work, and unlike Minus I find that a lot of their ideas are just plain ridiculously awful and upsetting and would lead the USA into a worse off state of desperation that it is in today. And that is all I can say for now but at least I got part of my view across.
The original Tea Party was fantastic before the mainstream Republican party and glenn beck got their hands on it. The core of their message is exactly what America needs, even if half of their supporters are idiots. Better than 99% of their supporters being idiots, which is the case with Organizing for (a Marxist) America. There are racist people in every group out there, the Tea Party being no exception. But the ethnic frontgroups, ala the NAACP, Lulac, etc, are the BIGGEST racists out there today. To the Left, everything's a race issue and every minority is being discriminated against. It's truly sick.
Whoa, whoa, whoa... All due respect, but I do not understand your comment. The stance of the Tea Party (which I do not affiliate myself with or agree with on the vast majority of issues) isn't that Obama was not born in the United States. You're talking about a minority in the party who believe that. That's akin to judging all Muslims on the actions of a minority. And Saoberlinwaves was right about the earmarks. So many bills get earmarked and then the media reports about the primary issue of the bill, not mentioning all the earmarks that have been attached and force a bill to get voted no. It's sensationalism.
The primary reason I loathe the democrat party is because they LOVE to divide this nation on racial lines and they LIVE off playing class warfare games... it's so pathetic... Every damn issue is "discrimination" and all they seek to do is achieve "social justice" AKA Marxism and redistributing the wealth via centralized, overpowered government
You throw the term "Marxism" around a lot when describing the Democratic Party... from what I know, at the most they're probably somewhat influenced by Marxism. I know that sort of comes down to semantics, and it probably isn't really my place to argue with you about most of the things you're saying at the moment, if indeed there is anything to argue about. Just figured I'd point that out.
It's the Democratic Party. Not the Democrat Party. You don't see people calling the GOP the Republic Party.
Racial lines? Dividing the nation? What about the people who say obama wasn't born in this country, or that he's a Muslim (thus disrespecting a whole religion)? What about the idiots currently trying to destroy the constitution by saying we shouldn't allow an american citizen to follow the law, by building a COMMUNITY CENTER (not a mosque!) four blocks away from the WTC on private property? The Republican party is no better than those Democrats you speak of, and I know this being a former GOPer who has now gone independant. At least democrats respect the constitution and Obama's defense of it (well most of them anyways), can't say the same about Republicans.
Agreed that the Republican party is no better. Both sides do some pretty darn despicable things. About respecting the constitution -- I honestly think that regardless of party or anything, everyone in Congress respects the constitution, they just have different interpretations and different ways to improve upon it.
True, but the fact is...this whole mosque debate is pretty pointless. It's not a mosque, it's a community center with a basketball court etc that just happens to have a place to pray. Not only that, but it's private property which constitutionally gives the people who own that lot the right to build a community center as they please. And no...it's not at Ground Zero. It's several streets away. President Obama was absolutely right in saying we must respect their rights as AMERICAN CITIZENS to build the community center, regardless of how some may feel about it being put there. The only reason why there's such public sentiment about it is because you have people like Sarah Palin spouting complete disinformation about it and making it seem like the center is being built right in the hole where the first tower fell. I swear if that woman ever becomes president I'm going to kill myself. She's just Like Giuliani, everything out of her mouth is a noun, a verb, and 9/11. Woman president? Yes please. Sarah Palin? Oh god no.
Yeah, I'm with you on the mosque. It's just another place of worship, and to imply it's wrong because some people in the extreme Muslim minority did something reprehensible in the general vicinity makes no sense. I can somewhat understand the point that it may be perceived as tasteless when they could build it elsewhere (and not where that incident unfortunately involving their religion took place), but com'n -- it's prime real estate, and there are churches in that area. I don't see how it diminishes anything. Sarah Palin actually made a somewhat intelligent argument against it, I don't recall what it was, though. Rare for her to make an intelligent point, haha
Democrats respect the constitution? LOLOL, well the old ones did, but the New Left loathes the Constitution and loathes our founding values. There's kooks in every group in America, but the core message of Conservatism is limited government and protecting freedom.... The core message of Leftism is big, authoritarian government and limited freedoms.
The thing is, nobody is arguing that they don't have the right to build it according to the Constitution. However, there are zoning laws that could have said this is not an acceptable location... The ONLY reason they're putting it there is to provoke... If they wanted to build bridges with the Judeo-Christian West, they would not be putting a megamosque two blocks from the World Trade Center... Also, the Imam who is building this mosque is shady at best... He has said some very questionable things in the past about America, including that he wants us to become more "Sharia-compliant"... And he refuses to disclose where the funding is coming from... It is NOt unconstitutional to build it there, but it is CERTAINLY wrong to do so. If the idea of a megamosque two blocks from ground zero, on a site where landing gear fell and damaged the building that day, doesn't boil your blood then i don't know what will. It's just disgusting.
And about the racial lines thing... EVERY single issue is a damn race issue for this administration, specifically the Department of Justice under Holder... The whole leftist mindset is seeing every issue through the race goggles... Then they send out their mob of nutjob journalists and media personnel with these psychotic claims that everything about the GOP and conservatives is racist.... gimme a damn break... Jesse Jerkson and Al Sharpton are the two biggest racists in the country, and complete hacks for the democrat party, yet for some reason we always put the two idiots on TV so they can spew their racial hate every time there's an ounce of opposition to chancellor Obama
I'll tell ya this, if we aren't able to reclaim the judiciary and the education system, our future is a dark one. Or should I say a Red one??? The schools, especially our nation's universities, are run by absolute Marxist nutjobs... I work in a college bookstore selling textbooks, and to be honest for some of the books I see, they might as well be having the students real the Communist manifesto... for every book I see about the Constitution, about the Republic, freedom, etc (positive books about America) I see a hundred books that are hating America, our political and economic systems, hating on the free market, etc... They might as well be reading Saul Alinsky, because it's the nutjob wing of the democrat party that controls the universities.
I'm supposed to care what anyone in the Saul Alinsky Democrat Party thinks of me? The Bill Clinton Democrat Party is dead, they have lost the independent vote as well as the Reagan Democrat vote. The moderates didn't vote for this crap, they voted against Bush. I was left of center until Obama was elected... If this country wasn't so blinded by their Bush hate we would have seen Obama for what he is--- a Far-Left, Socialist, Pseudo-Statist attempting to pull off a silent and gradual coup. The American people would never re-elect far-left nutjobs, so it's impossible to get them into most elected offices for more than a short period of time. So the Left does their business through the bureaucracy (ex. using the EPA to get their Crap and Tax without legislative action), they have infected the education system from top to bottom, and they put these activist judges with zero regard for the constitution and for our founding values on the appointed courts. It's right in front of your damn eyes and it bothers me that most people don't see it, or just don't give a damn. And the Republican party is a joke too, but at this point we have to channel through them because they're the only option.... America cannot take another two years of a Pelosi-controlled Democrat congress, and we certainly can't take another six years of the chancellor in chief Barack Hussein Obama... He ran on "Change".... And he sure as hell is delivering on that... "Change" is bad when you are moving the country away from the free market, away from a Constitutional Republic form of government, and towards a Statist, Authoritarian system of government. To put it simply, WE HAVE A PRESIDENT WHOSE PHILOSIPHY IS CLOSER TO MARX THAN IT IS TO JEFFERSON. If that doesn't scare the daylights out of you then I don't know what will. America is the ONLY true free country in the world. This is the last remaining true free market. And the chancellor in chief is doing everything he can to eliminate the ONLY remaining beacon for freedom in this world. I hope the Republicans move to impeach when they take over in January. Don't think there's anything to impeach him on? http://canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/25831 The man should be in a jumpsuit
Who is "they"? It's a religion. It's global. "They" aren't solely representative from a single location. "They" are Americans in this instance, just as Christians are Americans, Jews are Americans, etc. They're not putting it there to provoke, and I'd love to see any evidence that advances your claim. It is not wrong to build the mosque there. You say all these things that I hear all the time, but you know what? When you research it, your claims have no validity.
He's a Republican. Republicans debate by throwing insults around, calling everyone who doesn't agree with them a "socialist" or a "maxist", and making completely paranoid claims without any research or actual knowledge to back it up. The "reagan" party isn't around anymore, and hasn't existed since Bush. The Republican party used to stand for something important. It used to be an escape from hypocrites like Joe Lieberman and dare I say Al Gore. Now its full of idiots like Bush, Limbaugh, Palin, Boehner and other assholes who are bringing the country down. And judging by the posts I've read above, the intelligence of the party has suffered greatly as well.