Wretches & Kings - Out Now

Discussion in 'News' started by Joe, Sep 2, 2010.

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  1. Bennington_Hahn

    Bennington_Hahn This goes out to everybody still hatin' LPA VIP

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    Interesting post SpootCaz, alot of interesting points u've made about W&K's :)

    Personally I think W&K's is Darker, dirtier & just plain better than anything I've ever heard played in a club.

    The goove and rhythm of this song is fantastic. Almost a Regga/Hip-Hop fusion with industrial rock thrown in

    & chester's chorus- though totally unexpected is outstanding. Its made me respect chester all over again at how damn good a singer he is.
     
  2. Dean

    Dean LPA Addict LPA Addict

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    I don't know if these are a whole lot better than NMS or TLTGYA in that respect. So far the meaning of the lyrics for W&K seem to be pretty much straightforward "fight the power" type stuff, and you get clips from a speech that spell that out for you. There's a bit more wit and character than usual in there, but by Linkin Park standards that's not saying a whole lot and I think that comes more from the way they're delivered than the lyrics themselves. I think Hands Held High is still the benchmark when it comes to Linkin Park doing this sort of thing and even then that's more of a social commentary than a political one.

    Mike uses a sort of sarcastic, mocking tone in his raps here and I don't think there's much if anything that's automatically indicative of him "representing our oppressors" quite so much as it's just him, being sarcastic and mocking and critical of that submissive attitude. "There ain't shit we don't run when the guns unload" is a subjective line and it could also refer to an uprising, as opposed to the oppressors. The opening lines seem to point towards those as well, and the same goes for lyrics such as "the fire on the way" and "the front of the attack is exactly where I'm at", and the references to causing chaos as opposed to order. Your theory is good but I think in context those lyrics have the opposite meaning to the one you're attributing to them.
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2010
  3. SpootCaz

    SpootCaz New Member

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    I'm glad you guys agree! I think it's the fact that Mike and Chester oppose each other on this song, and that Mike is essentially a bad guy, that caused some misunderstandings, like that one guy who thought this song was a big f-u to fans of HT and Meteora. It's likely that he tried to analyze the lyrics closer, sensed Mike's antagonistic tone, and jumped to a conclusion. While this led to many humorous facepalm pictures, I think it's another sign of a good song that it enticed him to read deeper. And normally I would say that with music, what you take away from it is subjective, but I seriously doubt the point of the song was to alienate the old fans, haha.

    I really like this new dynamic in the lyrics, and I wonder if it continues in any of the other songs. If you think about it, in almost all of LP's older tracks, Mike and Chester are kind of two different voices, but for the for the thoughts of one person. This is brand new for them, and that's why it took me a few listens to catch on. This is the kind of track that will show you a new layer every time you listen to it, whether it's in the lyrics or the instrumentation. For instance, in one of my most recent listens, I noticed a very ethnic sounding high synth-y string in the upper end of the mix that doesn't come in until the turntable solo. I didn't hear it in my first dozen or so listens, but now it's one of my favorite parts of the track, subtle though it is.

    I'm also kind of dumbstruck with the concept of Linkin Park essentially issuing a call to arms against our government. Politics in music in general is kind of old hat nowadays, I feel like the message of this song would be much more powerful in the 60's when most people had an interest in opposing our government. Things aren't really like that at all anymore. But imagine we lived in an age where a song like this would really rile people and make them think about revolution? That would be crazy.

    And now I don't know what the hell I'm babbling about anymore, so i'll wrap it up here. Wretches & Kings is awesome, can't wait to hear the rest of ATS!

    Hahaha, I gotta agree with you here, I might just be over praising because they actually attempted to throw you off a bit with the style of the singing. You could easily see this as a song where all the lines are Mike trying to make him and his rap crew sound tough, hell one shout out to Machine Shop and that's exactly what it would have been. And it took me a few listens to notice what they were actually doing. Compared to NMS with it's giant glowing neon "We hate Bush!" sign, I almost thought that this was the height of subtlety! Hahah.


    You know, I could see it your way too, that could easily be exactly how it is. But I still like what I personally gleaned from it, like I said above, with what you take from it being subjective. That's just another plus to the song IMO. No other LP song, as much as I love them. has made me want to discuss it and hear what other people took from it before.
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2010
  4. ricky34024

    ricky34024 Well-Known Member

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    SpootCaz and Captain Troy Handsome make pretty good points. Personally, Mike's verses seem to indicate he's part of the yet-to-be rebellious forces, in the first verse at least:

    "Get down, and obey every word.
    Steady, get in line if you haven't yet heard."

    It's as if Mike is urging us to "get down" & keep a low profile, to not upset the higher "power". At this point, we are still completely submissive to "the machine" and we have yet to "make it stop". But, as the song progresses, we're not so submissive and, at his urging, we eventually rebel against the "people up top":

    "The front of the attack is exactly where I'm at."
    "So push the button, let the whole thing blow."

    I think these lyrics are powerfully delivered and Mike's rapping style adequately fits the heavy beat of the song. Chester's chorus acts as a sort of chant to help propel the rebellion forward.

    Edit:
    I had to listen to it several times before I heard that sound, and it's definitely one of my favorite parts. Wretches and Kings is amazing. I simply cannot wait to listen to the entire album!
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2010
  5. Xodus112

    Xodus112 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, that's really the only part I disagree with SpootCatz about. Mike and Chester are definitely on the same side. This is how I break down his lyrics.

    Verse 1

    To save face, how low can you go?
    Talk a lotta game, but yet you don’t know.
    Static on the wind, makes us all say whoa! (Rumors of oppression are spreading and surprising)
    The people up top push the people down low. (The government or higher class oppressing the lower)
    Get down, and obey every word. (What you as an average citizen are expected to do, obey "the man")
    Steady, get in line if you haven’t yet heard. (Get on board with the status quo if you haven't already)
    Wanna take what I got, don’t be absurd. (Possibly freedoms being taken away
    Don’t fight the power, nobody gets hurt. (Change or revolution is futile)
    If you haven’t heard yet, then I’m lettin’ you know (You need to know change is coming)
    There ain’t s--t we don’t run when the guns unload (Oppression by force doesn't scare us)
    And no one make a move, unless my people say so (don't do anything til the command is given)
    Got everything outta control, now everybody go (the status quo is being shaken)

    Verse 2
    So keep face, how slow can you go?
    Talk a lotta s--t, and yet you don’t know.
    Fire on the wind, makes you all say whoa! (Coming revolution is coming and surprising)
    The people up top and the people down low. (It's changing things from the top to the bottom)
    Get down, and I’m runnin’ it like that.
    The front of the attack is exactly where I’m at. (You're on the frontlines of war/change)
    Somewhere in between the kick and the hi-hat
    The pen and the contract, the pitch and the contact (could be that he's there for the start of a new "social contract"
    So get with the combat, I’m lettin’ them know (get on board with change)
    There ain’t s--t you can say to make me back down, no. (not changing my mind)
    So push the button, let the whole thing blow. (push the button, trigger a new order)
    Spinning everything outta control, now everybody go. (the old status quo is spinning on its head)
     
  6. Jesse

    Jesse Out of the abyss. LPA Über VIP

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    I got the meaning of this song on the first listen. Mike is not a King, he is mocking the King. Chester and Mike are both the Wretches. You can tell by the intonation of Mikes voice, he is very instigative and sarcastic throughout the entire song.
    Also the title of this track and the speeches at both the beginning and the end just cram the meaning down your throat if you can't gleam it from the lyrics.

    Mike is basically saying "Oh I'm King you do what I say, is what the King says"
    Chester is then rallying up and amplifying what may be a call for revolution.

    There aren't just two voices on this song, there are three.

    Voice #1 Is Mike and his taunting attitude towards voice #3
    Voice # 2 Is Chester fighting the same battle but from a different reproach
    so #1 and #2 are allied but aren't the same voice at all.
    Voice #3 is the quite literally, a voiceless king. Though that doesn't make his presence any less there.

    You can tell he is there from the lyrics of Mike and Chester

    So lyrically this song is better than anything of Meteora
    but then you get to the instrumental and it's just not so great.
     
  7. dailycrumb

    dailycrumb Active Member

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    anybody know the instruments and things that created the deeep heavy BASSy .. beat
     
  8. Xodus112

    Xodus112 Well-Known Member

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    Yup, you broke it down even better than I did. Though I would say being lyrically better than Meteora is no great feat in itself. :p
     
  9. Asua

    Asua Well-Known Member

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    I'm partially deaf after playing this track on repeat all day today
     
  10. jcmar16

    jcmar16 Banned

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    Mario Savio is my hero.
     
  11. ricky34024

    ricky34024 Well-Known Member

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    Actually, Mike & Chester aren't the wretches. Wretches and kings refer to the same group: the "people up top", the people with the "power", the "machine". Wretches are mean and despicable people. Mike & Chester aren't mean and despicable. ^_^

    Edit: However, I love how you were able to pinpoint three distinct voices, especially the voiceless one. [No sarcasm intended]
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2010
  12. SpootCaz

    SpootCaz New Member

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    Well the drum pattern sounds like and old 808 drum machine from the 80's. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if it was the very same 808 the Mike talks about in this interview: http://www.lpassociation.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31635 The very same one Rick Rubin used to produce a lot of those classic albums he did back then. Then the drum pattern is backed up with some heavy sub woofer bass. Then there might be a standard Bass on there, but I guarantee you eithr Phoenix played it or Mike did the sampling himself, so no go on getting that particular sound. But yeah, if you're looking to replicate that bumping sound, many music sequencers you can find out there have emulated 808s and sub woofer bass. You could also use pretty much any other style drums (just make sure the bass kick is the right sound) and with a bit of mixing with the sub bass, you can make all your tracks bang like that!
     
  13. Zach

    Zach Well-Known Member

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    I love the song, I find it powerful in a very weird way. I'm loving the sound of this record.
     
  14. Jesse

    Jesse Out of the abyss. LPA Über VIP

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    That's actually pretty much debatable. If you take notice of the thrid voice of The King you'd realize that the King would find the voices of those who oppose him are indeed the Wretches from his point of view. He's the ruler and they're the measly wretches of society, who do nothing but ask for more and expect things out of him while they're singing the opposite tune.


    So it's perfectly understandable that Mike and Chester and the King are all wretches in their own right. But if you take into account the title of the lyrics, if the King is the only wretch then the title is completely redundant. Yes I know it's metaphor but it's still akin to saying "Kings and Kings"

    So I like to think of it as

    Mike and Chester = Wretches from the King's eyes
    The King = Wretches from Mike's and Chester's eyes.
     
  15. Xodus112

    Xodus112 Well-Known Member

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    That also falls in line with the duality and finding the beauty and horror in many things that they're going for with this album.
     
  16. $pvcxGhxztCasey

    $pvcxGhxztCasey meanwhile... LPA Addicted VIP

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    I'll admit it, I liked Minutes to Midnight. It was a step in the right direction, had several songs that weren't like previous offerings from the band. But this? For starters, the music sounds like a bad Korn demo. Mike's rapping hasn't sounded this stale in awhile, and Chester is way off point with, well, everything in this song.

    First "The Catalyst" disappointed me, and now this song. It's not looking good for this album, to me anyways. I'm not trying to be an asshole about it, honestly.

    This makes me both sad, and kind of happy. It makes me happy because, to me, the first single might blow, but I'll be the first to say it's not your usual fair from LP. It sounds different than the usual lead singles. This is "apparently" the only track on the album that's a throwback to the old Linkin Park sound (2000-2003 can keep this song for all i care).

    And that's what makes me sad. I don't understand why people want regression instead of progression.
     
  17. NateXY

    NateXY I was by your side, powerless.

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    Your welcome :D
    You could probably try contacting the facebook group if you don't receive the whole album, they might help.
     
  18. Benjamin

    Benjamin LPA team LPA Super VIP

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    I'm not sure people are saying "I want the whole album to be like this!" At least I'm not. I think the people that want LP to always sound like this are the people who can't grow up. But even the people that want a new direction, like me, still love the track. To me, it's because of old time's sake. Months ago, I wished for one track that would sound like this. And boy did I get it!

    Anyways, your opinion has been respected :)
     
  19. Dean

    Dean LPA Addict LPA Addict

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    It's all good, I don't think the NMS lyrics are very good either. I think I'm probably being proven wrong with the way this thread is going anyway, and even if we are just overanalysing at least we're getting a good discussion out of it. I don't think I've been this in depth about Linkin Park lyrics before, haha.

    I was thinking about that earlier, and I figured that if it is calling for anything maybe it isn't meant to be a literal revolution. Just telling people to be less apathetic, and to stand up for themselves when it comes to that sort of thing.

    In the chorus Chester actually sings "Wretches and kings, we come for you" and I can gleam at least three plausible meanings from that alone:

    1. The wretches are other people who are hold power besides the kings who represent actual leaders, whether they're literally royalty or political leaders and figureheads. Aside from them, the wretches could be other politicians, the clergy... this is what ricky34024 was saying, unless I've gotten him wrong haha.
    2. The wretches are everyday people who are being recruited, or its partially a call to arms for the wretches, while the kings are being attacked.
    3. There will actually be some sort of retribution for the submissive wretches as well as the kings.

    I think I see what you mean by it, but I think the thing about the third voice is as debatable as anything here. At best you can sort of hear it through some of Mike's lines, and even then it seems to be more about the cause than the effect. If you want to go even deeper than that, Mike's "voice" could even be misrepresenting the kings. But yeah, I think you might be exaggerating the presence of a third voice somewhat.
     
  20. Benjamin

    Benjamin LPA team LPA Super VIP

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    Proof that ATS will be their greatest album yet.
     
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