Vegetarians

Discussion in 'Serious Chat' started by Mark, Jul 29, 2004.

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  1. #21
    Disturbed

    Disturbed Active Member

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    I don't think I could ever be a vegetarian... I gotta eat some type of meat....

    bacon, burgers, chicken... its all good

    not that veggies aren't good... its just i gotta have some meat
     
  2. #22
    Paygun Poetree

    Paygun Poetree Member

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    I have read a few replies thus far and this is absolutely disgusting. Seems like many are just misinformed. Look if you eat a little beef in tacos, or any beef at all you are not a vegetarian. I am and 16 year old vegan that has been living this way for well over a year and have never gotten sick.

    I will reply to a few of these arguments, and Maddox is not a wise man, but a careless #######. I do enjoy his site though. Eating meat is selfish, and missing it is a small price to pay for the sake of others.You abuse animals by paying other people to torture and kill them for your consumption. When you buy meat you directly demand this. There is something you can do about it: not create a market demand for dead flesh.

    I foresee the argument "Plants are living, and you are killing them". Plants do not contain a central nervous system or a concious. The hanging of a cow by it's hind legs are still standard farming procedures. And whether or not someone thinks something is big and dumb does not justify the taking of its life. Ones mentality should never be the reason it should be killed. I certainly hope one would not be fine with killing the mentally disabled.

    The slit the cows throat and rarely use the spike, trust me this method is effective. Feel between your chest and neck: there is a soft spot. A cow has an equivalent of that. The man working the "kill floor" will insert a sharp tipped blade directly into that area, and rip downward, severing a major arterie. A combination of blood pressure (remember the cow has been upside down for a while now; all of the blood is rushing toward the head and neck) and gravity allows the blood to flow so fast that the majority of it goes down a drain in the middle of the slanted floor and can't be caught in the bucket the same man is holding. You can see the animal gasping for air, and you can see in its eyes that it knows it is suffering, and that it knows it is going to die. Sometimes, the cow or pig (they are killed in the same manner) will kick so violently that it will break free of the harness around its legs, and hit the floor, convulsing in a pool of blood both his own and of his brothers, sisters, and fellow animals, until it finally breathes no more.

    Please, don't shrug off such acts.

    The air compressed spike is reserved for killing animals when they are not growing fast enough, and when keeping them alive until slaughter is more expensive than killing them immediately. Spikes, though, cost money, so sometimes the "runts" of the litter will be picked up by the hind legs and have their heads thrown against the concrete floor of the pens they are forced to live in, which are barely large enough to house their bodies, until they die.

    Now for the infamous "We are at the top of the food chain, hunting is necessary because of the rising population of animals that will soon result in overpopulation". Humans are no longer a part of the food chain. Unless a being can become victim to that same chain, and to the natural detriments of life, it cannot be considered a part of nature. Through technology humans have removed themselves from nature. We can survive HEALTHIER without UNNATURALLY torturing and slaughtering (not killing, slaughtering) sentient beings.

    Animals only become overpopulated BECAUSE of hunting. Nature seeks, and always attains, balance. When you kill, say, deer, that means that less vegetation is getting eaten. When less vegetation gets eaten, there is more. The deer breed insanely because of this, and all of the young deer survive because there is enough food for a short period of time. Eventually they exhaust their food supply. This happens naturally during droughts and heavy rain seasons, but eventually the population will level out. However, with the annual occurence of hunting season, the populations are never allowed to level, and are left constantly fluxuating. Population control is just an excuse to kill, and we all know that thought is secondary (if at all present) in every hunter's mind. Not to mention that that argument is complete bullshit, because it is based off of false/deceptive information.

    Anyone who has taken a high school biology course could confirm what I've said above.

    For fun, let's talk about something else: human anatomy. The human intestine: long, like an herbivore. Better suited to digest complex carbohydrates and fibers. A human intestine allows excess cholesterol to be absorbed into the body. All the cholesterol needed for a human to survive is produced within the body; any excess is dangerous and harmful. Cholesterol is only obtained through food from animal products, so avoiding animal products is in the best interest of the modern human.

    Why is cholesterol not harmful to a carnivore? A carnivore's intestine is short, and food is digested so quickly that cholesterol is not absorbed into the body. Since a humans intestine is so much more similar to an herbivore's than a carnivore's, does it not make sense for a human to adopt a herbivorous diet?

    The human canine is much better suited for tearing through tough vegetables than through flesh. If a human were intended to eat meat, it would be able to chew raw meat with ease. I doubt you can do it. Being the meat enthusiast you claim to be, I'm sure you have a nice 20 pound steak lying around. Hell, you probably have 5. Try tearing through one raw and tell me if it seems like nature streamlined your teeth and jaw to do so. I doubt you will be able to say that it does.

    the life of an animal on a modern factory farm IS torture. The meat that you buy at the store WAS TORTURED. There is no such thing as killing humanely, and if there were modern farming techniques would be far from it.

    Cows do not fatten themselves up, they are pumped full of hormones and unnatural food. Pigs will often break their legs with their own body weight because of these techniques. Animals never get veterinary treatment because it is too costly. Even animals with cancerous lesions are considered USDA pure. TUMORS are deemed acceptable, but the conditions are humane...

    Not to mention the standard procedures I outlined in my above paragraphs (severing arteries, death by being smached against concrete... I didn't even touch on the horrible (perhaps worst of all) conditions of chickens...)

    Meat adversely affects all forms of life, you, the animal, our world. About %60 percent of our population will perish from heart related disease, most which are derived from the food people choose to eat. I don't know if you are aware of the IMMENSE amount of pollution factory farms create then I think you should look into it, for if you really care you will seek out this information yourself. You seem confindent in your stance, you should have nothing to fear.

    Aside from the pollution it causes it makes absolutely no sense to feed an animal more food than you are getting from it, adding to the already increasing starving population, or at least not helping it any:

    Daily water usage in the US for...
    An omnivore : 4,200 Gallons
    A vegetarian: 1,200 Gallons
    A vegan: 300 Gallons

    Yearly land usage in the US for food...
    An omnivore : 3.3 Acres
    A vegetarian: 1/2 Acre
    A vegan: 1/6 Acre

    To make one pound of "food"...
    Pound of beef = 2,500 Gallons of water
    Pound of apples = 49 Gallons of water
    Pound of lettuce = 23 Gallons of water

    To make one pound of "food"...
    Pound of meat = 7 pounds of grain or soy
    Pound of grain or soy = 1 pound of grain or soy

    To learn the facts behind what meat (and all other animal) production does to our world and then to continue to eat meat is like giving the finger to every living thing on Earth. It's acknowledging that we have a limited number of resources (which, hopefully, we all ready knew), and that we're running through them at as much as 14 times faster (vegan to omnivore comparison), just as a matter of preference. We prefer to eat certain things, and that's really just more important that starving countries, fatally polluted waters, or land that's too desiccated to produce food any longer.

    Now for the rodent question that started this all. Yes you will always be the oppressor in some way but in this situation you are causing as less suffering as possible. Although millions of rodents may be indirectly killed by vegans such as my self. Over 25 billion animals are being killed directly by people like you. I tire of this task of speaking for those without a voice but it is something someone has to do.
     
  3. #23
    Jila

    Jila Super Member LPA Super Member

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    i didnt want to post in this topic because i get enough shit from people who bother me for being a vegetarian, but fuck it, ill just reply to some.

    actually the first humans ate seeds and didnt start eating meat until they learned how to make weapons

    i got a bit sick because i had nothing to eat in my freezer. well i was more hungry than sick actually

    if they eat fish or poultry they arent vegetarians and its probably for health reasons. if they say they are vegetarians they could possibly be either dumb or misinformed.

    they dont exactly kill them humanely. i have a friend that visited her grandfather in mexico and he slaughtered a cow in front of her two brothers by sliting its throat and stomach. they said it was gagging and choking on its blood.

    there are way too many people on this earth, why dont we start killing them. and since theyre dead, we should eat them too.

    oh, and i agree with everything Paygun Poetree said.

    the end.
     
  4. #24
    Will

    Will LPA Addicted VIP LPA Addicted VIP

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    I love how Paygun Poetree completely ignored the part where millions of animals are killed and tortured far worse than any animal in a slaughter house every year by getting caught in the combines of your precious grains and cereals...
     
  5. #25
    Dean

    Dean LPA Addict LPA Addict

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    Exactly! What's more, nobody gives a #### when the victims are rodents and not cute, ikkuw farmyard animals.
     
  6. #26
    Mark

    Mark Canadian Beauty LPA Administrator

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    Exactly.

    Paygun: You're absolutely blind to the fact that those vegetables, fruits and grain that you're eating have been the product of millions of rodents and other animals getting tortured and mangled in harvest combines. You cannot refute that. That makes vegetarianism very hypocritical. So I guess rats and mice may not look as cute as cows, but they're still living animals, and if you were a true animal activist you'd give up eating altogether because animals are still being killed to make your food.
     
  7. #27
    Anthony.

    Anthony. .Orestes LPA Super VIP

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    Yay, I'm selfish cause I eat meat. Wow...

    It's a fact the human body needs stuff contained in meat. A vegetarian can be healthy but there's always something missing.

    You know, people should realize we're all on Earth for each other. Humans and animals have their goals. Well, do you complain when an animal eats an animal? NO! Well, those animals are not vegetarians. What are we, us, humans? ANIMALS! So, why could the tiger eat my ####### supper while I'm stuck eating the herbs?

    I respect your choice, but let me eat what I want.
     
  8. #28
    Link04

    Link04 Ambient

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    Brilliant point, I'm definitely in agreement. However "selfish" eating meat may be.
     
  9. #29
    Todd

    Todd FLǕGGȦ∂NKđ€ČHIŒβǾLʃÊN LPA Administrator

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    Now I havent read all of Paygun's load of drivel, but I must ask you this:


    Why the fuck do you care what anyone else eats? if I wanted to eat a fresh steaming pile of dog crap, why should you even care? And as I said before, every single member of the LPA could suddenly stop eating meat and that would not reduce the number of animals killed.
     
  10. #30
    RememberingNever

    RememberingNever Well-Known Member

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    I think it's pointless to not eat meat to save the animal kingdom. :rolleyes:
     
  11. #31
    Anthony.

    Anthony. .Orestes LPA Super VIP

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    :lol:

    Want a steak Todd :lol: ?
     
  12. #32
    rosanna

    rosanna Well-Known Member

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    :lol:

    Want a steak Todd :lol: ? [/b][/quote]
    i agree with you guys. i do not like the fact that i am killing a bunch of cows, but my decision to change my eating habits is not going to change anyone else's eating habits.

    i think i may have already said that, but i dont think so.
     
  13. #33
    The LP Junkie

    The LP Junkie Member

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    in relation to the whole health issue about vegetarianism - i've been vegetarian for verging on about 6 years now, and theres only a few times that i've gotten sick. i think that there is a way that you can be a healthy person by excluding all meat and becoming a vegetarian, but you have to be careful about the way that you manage your food. so dont OD on one food group such as carbohydrates (pasta, potatoes etc), and maintain a healthy balance of everything (yeah that goes for the people who eat meat too - healthy diets guys) also i think you have to remember that we're all different, so each will take to the lack of meat in their own way. i know some who have been vegetarians for almost all their lives and they've never had health problems, but i also know some vegetarians who get sick yet still have a good lifestyle. its just the way that we're built.

    ok when i decided i wanted to become vegetarian, i wasnt doing it because i thought "aw animals are really cute i dont want to eat them. chicks are really cute." or "i want to be an eco-warrior and save the planet", i just felt that i couldnt handle the fact that they were dead, and i that i was eating them when i knew that there was another way that i could live.

    i've read pretty much most of Paygun Poetree's post, and i vaguely see what she's trying to say.. but there are some things i have to pick up on.

    "I am and 16 year old vegan that has been living this way for well over a year and have never gotten sick."
    i think perhaps you should wait a little while to see if you're going to stay healthy. i was vegetarian for about three years before i started getting sick. then again we're all different..

    "I tire of this task of speaking for those without a voice but it is something someone has to do"
    unnecessary - you sound like the lone ranger.

    i think everyone should be allowed to eat whatever the hell they want, because as far as i can see, eating meat is just human nature its what "nature" evolved us to do (hey finding out how to make weapons? well they're gonna be used somehow..). If you choose not to eat it and live by another lifestyle (veganism/vegetarianism), then thats entirely upto the individual.

    Theres always going to be a vegetarian vs. meat-eater arguement, but i dont understand why people just dont accept that we can all survive by being part of both lifestyles.
     
  14. #34
    Todd

    Todd FLǕGGȦ∂NKđ€ČHIŒβǾLʃÊN LPA Administrator

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    Ive been eating meat my whole life and haven't gotten sick from it. If you plan your diet right you can stay healthy eating meat.
     
  15. #35
    Paygun Poetree

    Paygun Poetree Member

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    I didn't ignore the rodent comment. I said you should choose the option which cause less suffering. Re-read my post dipshit. You are always going to be the oppressor in some way and just because some suffering cannot be stopped does not mean we should embrace it all. And for those that are concerned about the lives of those rodents, why are you concerned about their lives and not that of a cow or pig? I do care about whether a rodent dies or not the question is what can I do about it? Nothing. This is not the case for slaughthouses.

    And before stated "facts" please make sure they are true or else they are anything but "facts". If you woulve read my entire post I mentioned that it is in fact not need to eat meat. The body does fine without it, if this were not the case why would vegans be living otherwise? The argument is self defeating since it is so absurd. A vegan diet has virtually no cholestoral or fat in it. And no it does not make you healthier if you eat meat. I told you heart disease, derived from what you eat, is the worlds top killer. YOU DO NOT NEED MEAT.

    Do I care if you eat dog ####? No. The reason being that it cannot feel pain, does not suffer, and has no conscious. It has no children, brothers and sisters, or parents. I would not tell a mountain lion to stop eating flesh because the mountain lion would not live otherwise. Again, this is not the case with humans, it has been proven that we are better off without meat.

    Althought I know whether or not I eat meat the same amount of animals are most likely going to be killed does not mean that it should be tolerated.

    Yes I am the lone ranger, well on this board. Those vegetarians that have commented knew nothing on what to say and it overall effects the reputation of all the vegans that know what they are talking about. You would not get sick of vegetarianism after 3 years, but that time your body has adapted to your eating habits. You would be sick around the 3 month period. And yes you did stop eating meat because you felt "aw their cute". Because that means you wuold stop eating meat for moral reasoning, in which you did. Since you realized you were supporting death camps by looking at your plate of flesh.
     
  16. #36
    Paygun Poetree

    Paygun Poetree Member

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    By the way, I am a male ^_^
     
  17. #37
    Link04

    Link04 Ambient

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    Gah, I hate missing things, my mistake
     
  18. #38
    Alacrity

    Alacrity don't stop talking to me; i haven't been listening LPA Super Member

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    Reread his original post ;)
     
  19. #39
    don't do this

    don't do this Well-Known Member

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    I've been a vegan for seven years now but I know that by me not eating meat...there's not going to be any difference in the animals being slaughtered.I'm not even sticking it up to say that I'm saving the precious wildlife and crap #### cause I know it's no big deal.But i do get a feeling that I'm doing my part on this, and really,I have nothing against non vegans,you live your life the way you want to,I'll live mine the way I want to.
    Bringing up topics of helpconvertpeople to vegans are utter baseless and provocated by dumb fools who think they can brainwash people and make them think what they want to.
     
  20. #40
    Paygun Poetree

    Paygun Poetree Member

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    You do realize that we are incapable of chewing flesh unless it has been cooked, go ahead try and chew on raw meat. You won't only be disgusted. you will probably get sick. How natural.

    Actually, a vegetarian diet suits the human body better than a diet that includes meat. Carnivorous animals have claws, short digestive tracts, and long, curved fangs. Humans have flat, flexible nails, and our so-called “canine” teeth are minuscule compared to those of carnivores and even compared to vegetarian primates like gorillas and orangutans. Our tiny canine teeth are better suited to biting into fruits than tearing through tough hides. We have flat molars and long digestive tracts that are suited to diets of vegetables, fruits, and grains. Eating meat is hazardous to our health and contributes to heart disease, cancer, and many other health problems.
     
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