The Last Line

Discussion in 'Linkin Park Chat' started by Virgocore, Jun 25, 2017.

  1. #1
    Virgocore

    Virgocore Well-Known Member

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    Although The Last Line wasn't released officially until the MALL Soundtrack dropped in late 2014, we know it was written and recorded many years earlier. It was mixed by Neal Avron, who mixed Minutes To Midnight and A Thousand Suns respectively. My question is, did he mix it in 2007, or 2010?

    Something in the back of my mind tells me that the song didn't make it all the way until the mixing process for A Thousand Suns in 2010. I feel like it may have made it to the mixing process for Minutes To Midnight in 2007, though. But is there a for sure way to find out? We know that mixing credits for a few other songs off of the LPU albums such as What We Don't Know, Across The Line and Blackbirds go to Neal Avron as well, which we know were cut songs from Minutes To Midnight. Maybe it was cut last minute from A Thousand Suns in 2010, but I just highly doubt it for some reason.
     
  2. #2
    One More Rob

    One More Rob Well-Known Member

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    I might be wrong but I think it was ACTUALLY done during ATS mostly due to the fact that the working title (even though I can't 100% remember what it was) was visible during the making of of that album.
     
  3. #3
    minuteforce

    minuteforce Danny's not here, Mrs. Torrance. LPA Team

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    Blake

    Blake Leave a Trace LPA Super Member

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    This is what I was told but the information could be wrong I guess. I actually asked members of LPA this a couple weeks ago about all tracks from The Mall making sure I had it right.

    This is what I was told by the members I talked too as well as what I also found on Linkin Park pages on the internet:

    "The Last Line" was a demo from the band's third studio album Minutes to Midnight (2007), but was worked on for their fourth studio album A Thousand Suns (2010).

    So unless every source I've ever contacted with was wrong I believe it started in MTM but didn't make it to the mixing stage until ATS.
     
  5. #5
    Virgocore

    Virgocore Well-Known Member

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    It's just strange to me that this song would have made it all the way until the very end of the process for A Thousand Suns. Seems like it was just barely cut from being on A Thousand Suns. I wouldn't consider it a Minutes To Midnight song at all, then. Just because it supposedly started during the Minutes To Midnight sessions doesn't mean much if it wasn't finished until late 2010 and was in consideration for being on A Thousand Suns. Thanks for clearing it up.
     
  6. #6
    Astat

    Astat LPA Super Member LPA Super Member

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    *Edit* For some reason I thought this thread was about Devil's Drop, my bad. I still mix up Mall song titles.
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2017
  7. #7
    Virgocore

    Virgocore Well-Known Member

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    I just found something very interesting today while watching a random episode of ''LPTV'' on YouTube. It's during the ''Iridescent Gang Vocals'' episode, which shows the band creating Iridescent in the studio, likely in either 2009 or 2010, judging by Mike's hair, I would say 2010. But anyways, it shows a quick frame of a demo board. On it, it shows Aubrey One (from LPU 14) and Primo (from LPU 13) as well as a few others. One is Ammosick, which we know was created in the Minutes To Midnight era and made it to the A Thousand Suns era.

    However, the interesting thing is that it has ''The Last Line'' next to it, which was what the song was released under on the MALL Soundtrack. So I think that basically confirms that it was mixed by Neal Avron in 2010 and not in 2007, and that it's pretty much a full b-side to A Thousand Suns. Pretty cool!
     
  8. #8
    minuteforce

    minuteforce Danny's not here, Mrs. Torrance. LPA Team

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    I would say it was never finished, so it wouldn't have been a B-side. Both mixes feel like they have placeholder vocals and lyrics which were never greatly refined, but, nonetheless, the song was ostensibly finalised for "MALL".

    "Across The Line", "No Roads Left" and "High Voltage" are pretty much the only instances where a song was completed for an album and, then, not included in the final tracklisting.
     
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  9. #9
    Virgocore

    Virgocore Well-Known Member

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    I don't know, The Last Line seems pretty final to me. The version included on the actual MALL soundtrack. So doesn't White Noise, It Goes Through, Devil's Drop, She Couldn't, Dedicated, Qwerty, What We Don't Know, I Have Not Begun, Pretend To Be, Slip, Blue, So Far Away, Animals and Chance Of Rain. But more so The Last Line because they actually had Neal Avron mix it the same time he mixed A Thousand Suns, so they obviously were satisfied with it being the final version.
     
  10. #10
    One More Rob

    One More Rob Well-Known Member

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    I thought Across the Line was recorded after MTM since many people that saw the Making of MTM wanted it to be finished so they did. And considering the making of MTM was released with the finished album, must mean that it ws made AFTER
     
  11. #11
    Virgocore

    Virgocore Well-Known Member

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    I don't think so. Across The Line was mixed by Neal Avron and it was released in 2009, which was way too early for an A Thousand Suns mixing credit from him. Mike Shinoda also said it was the last song cut from the album, and that it would have been track 13. So I'd say it was done. The only thing they did to it to prepare it for release on LPU 9 was cut the intro down, which you can hear that version, too. Blackbirds was another that you can hear on the Making Of Minutes To Midnight DVD and it sounds the same as what we have for the most part. I created a thread a while ago asking about it's original version and people said it was basically the same most likely. Neal Avron also mixed that one and they recorded strings for it while recording strings for many other songs on Minutes To Midnight that made the album, so I'd say it's a b-side for Minutes To Midnight. The only reason they included it as a bonus track for A Thousand Suns was because Mike Shinoda wanted to put it on iTunes for a while and it was also released on 8-Bit Rebellion which was around the A Thousand Suns era. But the band has flat out said it's from Minutes To Midnight, as if it wasn't obvious enough already. What We Don't Know confuses me because Brad said they never really finished it. But it does have a mix credit by Neal Avron and it sounds pretty ''done'' to me. Same goes for Chance Of Rain, I don't think it has a mix credit, but it does sound a bit completed, same goes for Pretend To Be.

    High Voltage is definitely a b-side for Hybrid Theory, like minuteforce said. It even flows with Cure For The Itch's outro. My December isn't because it was created after Hybrid Theory was already finished and mixed and mastered. So Far Away and Slip, although sound completed, would have been too early to be considered for the album, I think. She Couldn't possibly too, because they couldn't clear the sample, although it does originate for 2000, so I'd say it's closer than those other two. I think And One was likely considered for the album for some reason, mostly because they still played it live in 2000 and 2001 and even a few times in 2002. It also had a live outro that wasn't on a studio version of the song, so it's possible they further worked on it in 2000.

    As for Meteora, I'd say the only one that we know about is that ''thoughts that take my pride'' song that we saw in LPTV and also the Making Of Meteora. But we don't even know the title of that song, or anything about it, except for lyrics. I'm sure there were a few other ones too that we know nothing about and probably never will.

    As for the others, who knows. New Divide definitely is not a b-side for A Thousand Suns since it was made in 2009 for Transformers exclusively. Also, not sure about I Have Not Begun, since it was a 2009 demo, but it's possible. It Goes Through sounds very much like a b-side for A Thousand Suns but who knows. I still think The Last Line is a b-side for A Thousand Suns. As for Living Things, maybe Devil's Drop? I don't think Animals really is, since it has a 2011 tag, and no chorus. The Hunting Party, I don't think White Noise is, it sounds too electronic and also the band was working on Mall from 2011 to late 2013, so it's likely from that time frame, I think the only reason it was featured in that trailer for The Hunting Party was because they were also working on Mall at that time so it's possible they were working on it one day in the studio. White Noise actually reminds me more of Living Things because it has that children's toy intro much like Lost In The Echo and also because it's like electronic rock, like Victimized and Lies Greed Misery. One More Light, I have no idea.
     
  12. #12
    Astat

    Astat LPA Super Member LPA Super Member

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    High Voltage is a Hybrid Theory b-side.

    No Roads Left, Across the Line, and Blackbirds are Minutes to Midnight b-sides. What We Don't Know is all but confirmed to be one as well (Brad's liner notes on demo tracks are dubious at best compared to Mike's), and I believe Ammosick (original version of The Last Line) is the one that rounds out the fabled "17 songs" that were confirmed to have been finalized during the sessions for that album - more on that in a moment.

    Pretty much every other non-album track we've gotten was either done for non-album purposes or was cut before mixing (which is a pretty easy line to draw as to what constitutes a b-side and what doesn't). Pretend to Be was completed in 2008 after Minutes to Midnight.

    As for The Last Line, here's what we know:

    -There are two versions of it that are identical instrumentally, with different vocal tracks.
    -Originally written during Minutes to Midnight era, was also in consideration during the A Thousand Suns sessions.
    -The version that appears in the film version of Mall is different than the one on the soundtrack (this is the case with a few songs in the movie - Dancer with "da na na" vocals in the film vs. instrumental on the soundtrack being the best example). The majority of the songs in the movie had alternate titles, as evidenced by them first appearing on Shazam before the soundtrack was released. This was where the initial confirmation of numerous old demo tracks being used in the movie came from (Warm Spell = Devil's Drop, Luna = It Goes Through, Ammosick = The Last Line, Buttermilk = Mal RX7). The presence of these demo tracks was probably Joe Hahn's doing and was only changed later on by someone else involved with the distribution of the film/soundtrack, as there's a post from a Fort Minor show on Joe's Instagram that shows Mike performing Devil's Drop, but Joe still refers to it as Warm Spell despite the song having been out for quite a while under its "non-demo" title at that point.
    -With the exception of White Noise being the lone band collaboration done specifically for Mall, it's easy to tell what came from where based on the production credits - all of the film score instrumental pieces are credited to Joe Hahn and Alec Puro, while the repurposed Linkin Park demos are credited to Mike Shinoda. The only oddball track in this regard happens to be The Last Line, which also has a production credit from Rick Rubin - this would not be the case if the song had been scrapped during the demo phase, it obviously got to the final stage of recording for a Rick Rubin-produced Linkin Park album.
    -Back to the film score vs. soundtrack versions of the song: There are two different versions of the song used in two different places, as we established. Neal Avron is credited with mixing in both the film AND soundtrack credits. He mixed Minutes to Midnight and A Thousand Suns, which were both produced by Rick Rubin. While this may be indicative of the song being a b-side for both albums with two separate mixes, you have to be mindful of the fact that the instrumental track is the same for both of them. I believe Avron's credit amounts to the original Minutes to Midnight-era mix, and his name was just held over for the second mix of the song since it uses the instrumental track that he had mixed previously. This is ultimately why I believe the song is definitely a Minutes to Midnight b-side and not an A Thousand Suns b-side (I also don't believe any additional tracks really made it to the final stage of recording on A Thousand Suns, based on how they would have had to be working out the sequencing, interludes, and recurring musical themes earlier on in the process with it being a concept record).
    -One last note, while the song was worked on during the A Thousand Suns period, the second vocal track version may not necessarily have been done at that point. Mike could have re-recorded the vocal specifically for Mall once it was decided the song would be on the soundtrack, for all we know. I'm more inclined to believe that both versions were several years old by the time Mall came out, though.
     
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  13. #13
    minuteforce

    minuteforce Danny's not here, Mrs. Torrance. LPA Team

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    Does this, by any chance, mean that Shinoda wasn't involved with most of the instrumental pieces for "MALL"?
     
  14. #14
    Astat

    Astat LPA Super Member LPA Super Member

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    He probably played guitar on the few tracks that have guitar in them, but I think Joe and Alec did most of the heavy lifting.
     
  15. #15
    Virgocore

    Virgocore Well-Known Member

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    Thank you very much Astat for clearing a lot of this up in this thread. I've learned a lot. For some reason it's interesting to me to see where all these demos and b-sides originate from and where they stand. Linkin Park has a lot of cool tracks out there.
     
  16. #16
    BTorio

    BTorio Well-Known Member

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    What points to The Last Line as the fabled 17th track over Chance of Rain (confirmed by Mike to have the "finished" title of Voices)? Ammosick's Rick Rubin credit could come from ATS sessions, yeah?
     
  17. #17
    Astat

    Astat LPA Super Member LPA Super Member

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    Chance of Rain may have gotten a title change, but it never got mixed by Neal Avron. Unless they mistakenly left his name off the credits or something, that song's no more of a b-side than QWERTY or Announcement Service Public is. Also Ammosick is seen on the final studio tracking board in the Making of MInutes to Midnight sandwiched in between a bunch of other demo titles that all ended up making the album (Song Q, EBow Idea, Shadow of the Day, etc.). The fact that the initial Shazam information for the movie version of the song used the demo title despite the later studio tracking board from the A Thousand Suns era referring to it as "Ammosick (The Last Line)" is also indicative of the earlier of the two versions being used in the movie (the song already had a "finished" title, yet they chose not to use it, while stuff like Devil's Drop didn't actually get a final title until the movie soundtrack itself). So if Ammosick is in the movie, and Ammosick was mixed by Neal Avron, then it essentially has to be a MTM b-side.

    I realize I'm connecting dots and making conclusions that aren't definitive here but I don't really see a more likely scenario.
     
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