Even though I don't agree with it being in the pledge. If the first ammendment is freedom of speech, they have the right to put that in the pledge if they want, but they aso have the freedom of religion which is part of the first ammendment, refering to one bit of any religion and expecting all people to live by it..so personally I don't know who to go by. My being atheist, I find it offending, but both sides have strong arguments. Your thoughts?
This is going to stir up trouble, I can see it. It should be removed. Why? Because many Americans aren't christians. They're muslims, buddhists, jews, atheists and more. Why should they be forced by reciting the pledge of allegiance to be contracted as believers of "god" (the christian "god", not a universal "god" for every religion). And then, if they don't recite the pledge of allegiance, they're viewed as unpatriotic. If you have the free speech to say "under god", you should have the free speech to not recite it without being persecuted and verbally assaulted for it.
is there one thing we don't agree on? Anyways, what he said. Back in the beginnings of America when athiesm was unheard of and Christianty was the only religion, "under god" was acceptable. Now, there are so many religions and beliefs that it should be taken out of the pledge. I never recited the pledge in high school. Partially because of those 2 words, and also because I don't support what this government's been doing lately. Some people probably thought I was unpatriotic, but I was proud of myself for having the balls to either stay seated or stand up but keep my mouth shut. F*ck what everyone else thinks IMO, to be honest, the arugment for keeping the words under god in there is a weak one. Their only argument is that it's history and it shouldn't be changed. However, history also consists of slavery and unequal treatment of anyone who wasn't a white american male. So if they're saying that under god should be kept because it's history, they're also saying that we should go back to living on plantations and using African Americans as slaves and treat women like second class citizens.
I say no. Leave it in. No need to make a director's cut of the pledge. If someone doesn't want to say it, don't make them say it. Simple as that. edit: As for the freedom of religion thing, atheism isn't a religion. It's not a belief, it's a disbelief.
Wasn't "Under God" not even in the pledge when it was first introduced? I was a Jehovah's Witness and we were told not to say it because it was basically praying/pledging your allegiance to an idol/country/piece of cloth which we aren't supposed to do. We also aren't supposed to kill for our country (that means no army for us) or take blood transfusions or celebrate holidays except Passover and Easter (the rest aren't in the bible so they're "off limits" even birthdays"). I got off the point there. But if it wasn't there in the first place I say take it out if people want it out.
I say take it out. Call me a moron, but I refuse to say the Pledge anymore because of that (and other things). Though I know people don't agree. I was forced to say it my entire school life until one day I didn't. When I was asked why, I said "Because I don't believe what the Pledge is saying," I got in heaps of trouble for it (sent all the way up to the principal for it). It's stupid how they lash out as us for saying we don't agree to something and expect us to have 100% honor for something that DOES NOT speak for all Americans. I do not pledge my alligence to the American flag, and America is not a nation that God is overseeking, in my opinion. To me, "One nation, under God" kind of always came off to me as America is the only nation God is looking after and is saying "Screw the rest of the world!" in a way. I'll have liberty and justice, but I won't throw my pride down for the symbol of a nation and lie that I hope one being is watching over me and not my fellow beings even though they be my enemy. America is not one nation under God since we don't all agree. Maybe I look at it wrong, maybe it's saying that we as Americans are one, and God looks over all, but he looks on America. That's still playing an ignorant favor to the fact we have to push our egos SO MUCH as to say "Yes, a God is watching over us, so don't mess with us!" As Mark and Todd stated, if you don't say it, you get labeled as unpatriotic. Fine, I'm unpatriotic, but then again, I am also an athiest, so can we classify religion with patriotism?... Does patriotism not involve government in some way thusly cancelling the fact of "freedom of speech" in any way and or form? We shouldn't, right? I mean, yeah, when the enemy is about to stick a bullet in your head, they say "Say your last prayers" or whatever those old movie chilchés say, but hey, you know, that's the movies, it's unlikely saying a prayer is gonna' make the gun malfunction. But then again, we're supposed to kiss ass so we get into heaven, right? That's why we "pledge" our "alligence" to not only America (a kiss up) AND God (two points there!)? I almost got thrown out a football game once at my high school, too, for not standing for the Pledge (I think it was in rememberance of a year since 9/11 or some patriotic thing). The teacher sitting a few seats above me told to just stand for the hell of it or they'd throw me out (he knew that I was an athiest with strong view on religion, thus he gave me a heads up). But aside from all this, I would be "glad" to show more "approval" and "alligence" if the Pledge wouldn't put words in my mouth. Just my view of things, take it or leave it, this is my opinion and or rant. Make of it what you will, but your take is yours, not mines .
I don't think everyone should make up such a big deal out of this. If they don't want to say "Under God" fine, just don't say it.
They don't want to have to not say it, they'd rather it no longer be there so they won't have to hold their breath for 1 second.
the pledge of allegiance is part of our american history. I think that that changing the pledge is like taking a chapter in a book. And, for you atheists out there if you don't like it, too bad. Suck it up
You won't make very many friends here with that kind of attitude. If you ask me, it should be taken out. When you recite the pledge, you're supposed to be pleding your allegiance to your home country, not God. The government was also founded on the belief that religion shoud be kept out of government. If George Washington or Thomas Jefferson or Benjamin Franklyn were alive today, they'd spit on all of our presidents who've used God as an excuse and whatnot in office. Saying that you're pleding your allegiance to a nation "under God" not only goes against what this nation was founded on, but it's going against freedom of religion.
Yeah, but they've changed the constitution before. You're going to get yourself banned for that kind of attitude, so watch yourself.
The way I see it, people have the option whether to say the Pledge of Alligiance or not in the first place. If they have that option, I don't see why it should be taken out. If you don't agree with it then just skip that part or don't say the pledge all together. It's a free country after all.
its not that. Its that church and state are seperate and an official pledge for this country should not have under god in it.
QUOTE (spiderman @ Aug 4 2004, 08:53 AM) the pledge of allegiance is part of our american history. I think that that changing the pledge is like taking a chapter in a book. And, for you atheists out there if you don't like it, too bad. Suck it up rolleyes.gif You won't make very many friends here with that kind of attitude.
But then they get bitched at for being unpatriotic for not saying it.[/b][/quote] Well I hope they don't get their feewings hurt :'( Whoever contests their beliefs, should have their beliefs contested too. It's always good to blow an hour of class time (if it happens at school) by having an open discussion on the subject. Even though neither side will win (other than by storming out of class in anger, or being kicked out of class by the teacher). @spiderman: learn to quote, PLEASE! those posts are an eye sore.
Well I hope they don't get their feewings hurt :'( Whoever contests their beliefs, should have their beliefs contested too. It's always good to blow an hour of class time (if it happens at school) by having an open discussion on the subject. Even though neither side will win (other than by storming out of class in anger, or being kicked out of class by the teacher). @spiderman: learn to quote, PLEASE! those posts are an eye sore. [/b][/quote] That's true. But there are still people in the country who are ridiculously patriotic, but they don't believe in God. I was raised to learn that if you didn't say the entire pledge, you weren't patriotic (much like if you don't say it at all). Should these people who don't believe in God be forced to say it just so they can still be patriotic? It's unfair to those people and it's unfair to the people who don't even believe in God. And it's especially unfair to the people who founded this country, since they founded this country on the strict belief that church and state should never intermingle. It's right in the Constitution.
Well I hope they don't get their feewings hurt :'( Whoever contests their beliefs, should have their beliefs contested too. It's always good to blow an hour of class time (if it happens at school) by having an open discussion on the subject. Even though neither side will win (other than by storming out of class in anger, or being kicked out of class by the teacher). @spiderman: learn to quote, PLEASE! those posts are an eye sore. [/b][/quote] You seem to be getting really personal about this. I'm just saying that you don't get bitched at for saying it, so why should they get bitched at for not saying it? Contesting it peacefully is one thing, but getting labeled for being a traitor to your country because you won't recite two words is asinine.