Second Presidential Debate

Discussion in 'Serious Chat' started by Will, Oct 9, 2004.

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  1. #41
    Mark

    Mark Canadian Beauty LPA Administrator

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    Which is weird because wars in the past have boosted the economy. At least, I believe so. [/b][/quote]
    Well, the war was triggered by 9/11, which took out a massive chunk of your economy, so I'll revise it;

    9/11 -> Economic loss -> War -> Less jobs all along.
     
  2. #42
    Will

    Will bread crumbs & white stones LPA Addicted VIP

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    Well, the war was triggered by 9/11, which took out a massive chunk of your economy, so I'll revise it;

    9/11 -> Economic loss -> War -> Less jobs all along. [/b][/quote]
    I forgot about the fact that it was the World Trade Center. :lol:
     
  3. #43
    Link04

    Link04 Ambient

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    While that might have been the case, I believe that any planned event to kill a group of people (whether it be planes into a building or someone walking into a mall with a bomb strapped on them and triggering it) is a terrorist attack. He made it sound like there was absolutely no attacks in Clinton's presidency and that is just completely untrue.

    Even with OK-City being done by an American, other ones such as the USS Cole were on American soil or targeted towards America. In my opinion, any tragic event aimed towards America, on our soil or not is a terrorist attack worthy of being put on a president's record. But that is just my view on everything. [/b][/quote]
    Well, let's see how the U.N. defines a terrorist attack:

    The Convention to Suppress Terrorist Bombings (58 signatories, 29 parties) has been signed and ratified by the UK. Canada and the US have signed, 12 January 1998 and have not ratified. The Convention to Suppress Terrorist Bombings defines in Article 24 a terrorist bomber as a person who:

    "...unlawfully and intentionally delivers, places, discharges or detonates a bomb, explosive, lethal or incendiary device in, into or against a place of public use, a state or government facility, a public transportation system or an infrastructure facility with the intent to cause death or serious bodily injury or the destruction of such a place resulting in major economic loss."

    The International Convention for the Suppression of the Financing of Terrorism (25 February 2000) by Article 2 makes it an offence to directly or indirectly provide funds to be used to carry out:

    "...any other act intended to cause death or serious bodily injury to a civilian, or to any other person not taking an active part in the hostilities in a situation of armed conflict, when the purpose of such act, by its nature or context, is to intimidate a population, or to compel a Government or an international organization to do or to abstain from doing any act."



    Judging by that, are we just as guilty?
     
  4. #44
    Mark

    Mark Canadian Beauty LPA Administrator

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    I forgot about the fact that it was the World Trade Center. :lol: [/b][/quote]
    Well, yes. But the cripping paranoia caused by the entire event didn't help either. Granted, the WTC collapse did help alot, it was the biggest factor.
     
  5. #45
    Todd

    Todd FLǕGGȦ∂NKđ€ČHIŒβǾLʃÊN LPA Administrator

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    Its Bush for christ sakes. Its the man who chokes on a pretzel and can't answer a simple question, he's capable of screwing up anything
     
  6. #46
    Ryan

    Ryan You Greasy Bastard LPA Super VIP

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    Its Bush for christ sakes. Its the man who chokes on a pretzel and can't answer a simple question, he's capable of screwing up anything [/b][/quote]
    LMAO, good one!

    But i mean if you look at Hitler's reign, he created tons of jobs and all he did was start wars. But in all it should create more jobs beause supplies for the soldiers and such will be in great demand. But anyhow, I'm just saying that o matter what Bush touches it seems he screwes it up somehow.
     
  7. #47
    hollowtubes

    hollowtubes Member

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    Why would you even wanna protest like that? I see that as an all time low to your country. It's like some anarchy wanna-be punk crap thing; lets vote something down to prove our point that war is wrong even though it makes us seem heartless.

    Oh! But wait.... any mindless, biased liberal-democratic, noncitizen of the United States of America would believe that. "He doesn't like the war so he voted down for the PROTECTION of our soliders that he SO MUCH SUPPORTS!" -.- I mean, come on... how lame are you to even put an excuse up like that? You're just biased. Chirst.

    I'll tell you right now that you are all negitive. Why can't any of you say one positive thing about the other candiate? They've all done good things and they've all done bad things but then again... they are only HUMAN. Although, some bad things should be pointed out and you need to evaluate that person on that choice they made or choice they didn't make.

    I told my father earlier today about someone who said, "Well, at least Kerry can change his mind about stuff, Bush won't change for anything because he always thinks he's right." Well, I said, "It's better to stand firm on what you believe then having to always second guess yourself. People critize Bush for not changing what he's said or done. People yell at him for it but yet he stands still. Having to always change your mind shows that you're never sure about anything you've thought of. That shows, to me at least, that you have a lot of self-doubt"

    Who the hell wants that in a person who is suppose to run our country? I sure as hell don't want to.

    And as for him choking on a preztel...... Does that mean anyone who's had some sort of accident like that you'll make fun of? Or has a speech impediment? What kind of liberal are you to do that even though all of your beliefs are to be completely against that.... I really don't understand that at all.

    Bush isn't a bad guy, he's not at all like Hitler... Hitler put people in torture chambers and had his men kill people, "Just because he didn't like them," for their religion. I know you all have studied WW2 and I KNOW you guys aren't that mean to think someone is that bad as Hitler. Are you so blind what how much you hate someone to quickly last out comments like that? To be so down right arrogant to beat someone down like that?
    And as I see here you all are clawing at each other like cats in this forum but have you noticed that at the end of the debates both canidates shake each others hand? They don't think one another is a bad person but more so bad judgement... but you guys make Bush out to be some babykiller (even though he is against aborations).

    And that's another thing. I bet have you idiots didn't know that having an aboration can kill you...... Didn't know that, did you? It has serious affects on the womans innereds that will cause inner bleeding that can't be stopped, that or it'll make it to where she just can't have children anymore.
    So, tell me... because you wanted to be a ho make it right for that? Bush even said that in some cases that aboration should be an opition. Example, Rape, imbreding, etc.... And, uhm... Kerry has that same belief pretty much but if the 15 year old girls wants to go screw around all she's gotta do is get Daddy to sign off on killin' her kid cuz she likes to have fun at a party. Get real.

    I don't know what else to say to you all except that you are blinded by what reality is. Have you even watched what those monsters are doing to people over there? The beheadings? It's not just to use but to Italians, Chinese, Russians, etc... so they aren't out to just get us, they're out for all of those whom... aren't, "paying" them off. I.E. France, Germany...

    Oh! Yes, U.N. the "Evil thing with a holy name"- (some politican back from WW1) had a project going about called, "Food for oil." Give us oil, we'll give you food. Isn't the U.N. so freakin' nice? -.0 Trust me, do some research and you'll read about it.

    I was told about a letter put out by a marine today about how hellish it is there. He got off the plane and he saw there was no God to be found. He went into the heart where the real war is at, non-stop fighting and all... they win everytime, they save people who RUN to them! Everything... but you'll never hear about that on the news, radio. Why? Because war is bad, period. America never wins, people always die, our soliders are mean people that suck.
    Trust me, I've heard that so many times that it makes me sick... no heart at all some people have.

    And I've seen no back up from anyone. If this is to be a real debate you wise asses better grown up and find your resources like you all learned back in middle school when you did your first research paper. You can't prove crap unless you got your proof, and you know what? Every politican during a debate had some proof of one kind or another, I suggest you do the same.
     
  8. #48
    Mark

    Mark Canadian Beauty LPA Administrator

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    I'm not going to try to waste too much time on you, but;

    You're a stereotyping jerk constricted by the very innaccuracies you plagued this thread with. :)

    Again;

    First bill: $87B for military troops. Kerry votes yes to support troops.
    Second bill (Revised): $67B for military troops. $20 million for government pocketing. Bill was going to pass unanimously, so he voted against it in protest. I'm sure if Kerry had any doubt the troops weren'tgoing to get money, he might have voted for it. It was a sign of protest.

    We're negative? You signed up on these fourms out of the blue to spread negative things about us, like calling us anarchy wanna-be punks, and mindless biased liberal-democrats. So apparently it's wrong to have an opinion? Wrong to disagree? You're insane.

    And don't give me that non-citizen crap, because I live in Canada. While you're off in Iraq for oil, North Korea and Iran are building nuclear missiles. A nuclear missile hits the US and gets who gets the updraft of the toxins? Guess whose oceans will be contaminated? Yeah, that's right, Canada. So don't tell me this is a US-exclusive thing because whatever happens to the US is felt by the whole world.

    Ok, so let me get this straight; you call both candidates human because they do good and bad things, and then you support a candidate who constantly bags on the other candidate for "flip-flopping". So, by your logic, Kerry should be given a break because he's voted for some things then changed his mind. Yet the Bush administration constantly criticizes him. That screams hypocritical.

    Who the hell wants someone who allows himself to change his mind on important issues? Many. An error in calculation should be fixed. Bush won't fix anything because he's always right. That's what you call obnoxious, naive, and ignorant. I'd much rather a leader of the free world who knows when he's wrong and doubts himself BEFORE he makes a mistake, unlike a president who makes a mistake and won't even apologize for it afterwards.

    You throw around the term liberal like it's a bad thing. Everyone's afraid of that word for some reason. There's nothing wrong with it. People are thinking freely and openly and they're allowed to do that, so stop packaging them in a small box.

    Nobody compared him with Hitler. Ryan just said jobs were created under Hitler and jobs weren't created under Bush. There's no link there, just a contrasting. Reading is your friend.

    You're warned for flaming. Don't call people idiots. You have no tolerance for others opinions and that will lead you nowhere in life, unless you plan to be the head of the republican party. And I don't even think you would be qualified for that.

    Oh, and your views on abortion are over-exaggerated. But you're entitled to your opinion. You should get real.
     
  9. #49
    Methybrea

    Methybrea Well-Known Member

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    @ Mark: Holy sh*t that was amazing :lol:

    @ hollowtubes: read Mark's post......As for beheadings from different countries, yes these terrorists are very dangerous people that need to be contained and eliminated. But you don't go about it by starting a war! It just gets everyone there even more angry, and more recruits for Osama.

    Besides, why did Bush choose Iraq to invade? Al-Queda isn't there, not for sure! Why not go to war places like Syria or Lebanon, places that are known to harbour terrorists. Does any of them have resources the American economy needs to survive? Don't think so! Why not North Korea who admit to have Weapons of Mass Destruction and said they will use them if necessary...?

    War is wrong, however you put it, its bad. Why can't we solve problems peacefully. We have improved racial tolerance, women's rights, homosexual rights (in parts of the world).....why do we kill our own kind? (big SOAD reference there)
     
  10. #50
    hollowtubes

    hollowtubes Member

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    No matter what, you all were calling each other names. Read back through to posts and you will see it. Calling on another ill-informed, etc.... So, back off. I didn't say it was wrong to disagree
    I was refering to Kerry so next time you try and pull one over on someone know who the crap they're talking about. Alright? I was comparing the punk thing because it's a stereotype. Have you no sense of reality?

    Fact, the US at current is building missle defence against those and even if they do hit us, it'll only hit the very bottom of California, so Mexico should be complaining much more than you. And if it's SSSUUUCCCHHH problem then complain to your government to go after them and don't leave the burndon on us.

    Get use to it, Kerry does flip flop and even his own democratic buddies won't support him. He admits to it. How is it hypocritical? Explain that to me, please. I say they should because of what I said further on it:
    Should I reword that better for you to understand or not?

    We have our own oil in Alaska but the hippies won't let us. Besides have you proof of us taking any of that oil? Have you known about was the UN was doing???

    He's appoligized for things before already, or do you not recall those 13 words that the democrats hounded on him for?

    *** Proof???

    It's a way of belief or do you not know what those names all mean? Do you know what Regan Democrats are? Do you know what the Bull Mouse party was? Being liberal is no small box at all. I, myself, am liberal so don't think I feel it's a bad thing. Why take it as a bad thing? It's not! Christians are liberal because of the way they feel, I am Christian, it's all a name. I say, Liberal-Democrat because that's one part of the catagory, then you have, Liberal Conservatives, and Conservative Democrats. You don't know enough of what these names mean nor their catagories to debate those meanings enough.

    You learn that all in U.S. History while in high school ;)

    That is where you'd be wrong. Many people say (mainly teenagers and college students) say that he is. They yell to the world that because there is war, because Bush is president, he is equal to Hitler. Look around at personal blogs, you will find that people have compared him to such.

    There is no flaming, idiocies happen in people whether you want to aknowledge that or not. Name calling happens and just because you are called something you instantly get offended. Have you read through your other posts to see what you have called others? Ill informed? Then just now you say I will not get anywhere in life because you automatically assume I don't except others opinions which just isn't true. I fully admit that lumping people into one catagroy above (the punk comment) might have been a little offending but, you know what? You can't say anything without offending someone... that's just life....

    So you get real.

    How? Prove this and I will gladly retract my statement but if you continue on riping me down on other statements I will demande an appology for your accusation. I want to know how they are exaggerated, how the are overwraught with their idiocies. If you are unable to, then damnit, you have no right to talk down on me.

    P.S. I've posted elsewhere so don't even start. There is a political topic so people are attracted to it, I love Linkin Park because they've helped me through life. My friend gave me this link to this fansite so I checked it out. Deny me that if you'd like but you're just dumb in thinking I came here in defense of Bush.

    I love Music.

    <!--QuoteBegin--Odaton
    @Oct 14 2004, 01:50 AM
    @ Mark: Holy sh*t that was amazing :lol:

    @ hollowtubes: read Mark's post......As for beheadings from different countries, yes these terrorists are very dangerous people that need to be contained and eliminated. But you don't go about it by starting a war! It just gets everyone there even more angry, and more recruits for Osama.

    Besides, why did Bush choose Iraq to invade? Al-Queda isn't there, not for sure! Why not go to war places like Syria or Lebanon, places that are known to harbour terrorists. Does any of them have resources the American economy needs to survive? Don't think so! Why not North Korea who admit to have Weapons of Mass Destruction and said they will use them if necessary...?

    War is wrong, however you put it, its bad. Why can't we solve problems peacefully. We have improved racial tolerance, women's rights, homosexual rights (in parts of the world).....why do we kill our own kind? (big SOAD reference there)
    [/quote]
    The world will never be prefect......

    www.orgish.com

    Look at that for the real world and how evil it can be. We've come a long way in a few hunderd years and we still have much further to go, so do other countries....
     
  11. #51
    Mark

    Mark Canadian Beauty LPA Administrator

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    There's a big difference between totally disrespecting someone by fitting them into a box of stereotypes, and then shwoing someone's wrong and saying they're ill-informed because of their inaccuracies. And I don't care if you said it wasn't wrong to disagree, you're still stereotyping and flaming people because of their beliefs instead of peacefully debating maturely about it.

    Ahh, yes. And protesting a bill you disagree with is now a crime? They're no punks or whatever blasphemous stereotype you want to throw at them. They're free-thinking individuals who stand up for what they believe in, they're not just yes-men. That takes guts.

    You don't think that the longer you stay in Iraq, the more technology is being gained by these countries? They improve the technology with more time. I mean, if you're going to unjustly invade Iraq over non-existant WMDs, then why not a country who has proclaimed to have weapons? As you take your eyes off the ball, these countries gain technology. Technology that will soon bring nuclear missiles to New York and Washington, among other places in America.

    And I won't be lobbying my parliament to fix the problems the US has. Canada can't stop nuclear missiles from hitting the US, that's asinine. It's just a shame we're forsakenly linked to your country. The burden is completely on the US, it's just the rest of the world who suffers the consequences for their tomfoolery.

    Both candidates flip-flop. You've undoubtedly seen the lists. The difference between the two candidates is one admits when he's wrong and the other doesn't. You've got an honest man and an obnoxious man, I'll choose the honest man.

    If you seriosuly care about me linking the Bush administration to oil, go read the Celsius 41.11 thread. I'm so tired of pointing out who derived this was on oil.

    No, I don't recall those thirteen words. And Bush also said in the last debate that he does not regret a single thing he's done in office. That's not recanting or apologizing.

    I know plenty of what liberal means, so don't get me wrong. But I'm just so used to republicans saying Kerry's "liberal" or democrats are liberal like it's a bad thing. That was more of a personal rambling than a jive at what you said, so if I misworded, I'll apologize. You know, like Kerry has.

    As for the Hitler thing, you were either talking right about what Ryan said or you were going on one of your personal ramblings, because nothing was said in this topic comparing Hitler and Bush.

    Call someone an idiot? Get warned. Face the music.

    There are no right or wrong opinions on abortion, only opinions. Maybe I came off a little harsh but I still disagree with you. Abortion debates only lead around in circles and are not productive. Besides, this is not the topic for it.
     
  12. #52
    hollowtubes

    hollowtubes Member

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    Now, tell me... have you not stereotyped someone at all in any of these debates???

    Do you even know what that bill was?
    And do you think I'm one of those, "yes-men" people?

    I wasn't saying that you guys needed to blow them out of the water but if you feel it's "such" a threat then handle it. Korea has been making those things for years with what little money they do have; god forbid they waste a damned penny on their people for food. They don't.

    So you admit Bush is the honest man. ;) *note the sarcasm* We've not seen lies from the two of them because if that were to have been found then both wouldn't even be up there in the first place. *shrugs* That's the shere fact of it all.

    It was a bit ago that it had all happened but that was more focused on the inside of America, the rest of the world didn't really give two sh*ts. I see the fact that he did appologize which people keep saying he never has.

    There was a mention about Hitler earlier in the thread so I brought it up.

    What should we debate further on in this then? It was talked about in the Second Debate so... I can only assume.
     
  13. #53
    Derek

    Derek LPAssociation.com Administrator LPA Administrator

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    I was going to wait until I woke up tommorrow, and after I watched the debate (and got all the information I could find) to reply to every post concerning me in this thread (including Mark's response to my latest). However, the debate raging between hollowtubes and Mark has convinced me to say a few things and if you'd be so kind, I'd like to contribute my thoughts on what is currentely being said.

    The name-calling arguement is definetely one that is null and void because I have been called "naive", "ignorant", "ill-informed" among many other things in the course of this debate. This debate was certainly not a peaceful one, and I am openminded enough to see that everyone has said some things they shouldn't have in this thread. Debates are a heated exchange between two people with very conflicting views. Sometimes things are said that can become a bit out of hand. We might not set out to say such things, but they can happen, and are sometimes simply unavoidable.

    People disregard my comment about a democratic person voting for a Republican candidate for the first time as if it doesn't mean a thing. It means more then you can imagine. I've seen many democrats turn against Kerry because of the way he changes his mind on decisions, and a lot of the clients of my dad's who used to support Kerry are now going to vote for Bush on November 2nd. The fact is, Bush keeps bringing up Kerry's record because Kerry was absent well over 200 times to vote on important things. I saw what people were saying about Kerry months ago, because I respect your opinions on Bush but how can we trust a candidate who is not there to vote on the important issues? If he's not there while he's in Senate, I have large doubts that he will be there for us as a president. I have the feeling people will try to call me ill-informed after I say that, but the fact of the matter is...had Kerry been there all those times he was absent and not changed his mind so much, my vote could be drastically different right now. To me, Kerry lost his chance when the truth went against him.

    The most bothersome fact of this election is that many Kerry supporters have tried to accuse us Republicans of being ill-informed or spreading false truths and yet Kerry supporters (including Democrats) are guilty of the same thing. For example:

    • The oil arguement is a dead arguement, and the fact that it keeps being returned to is almost depressing. I can guarantee you that America has not been getting oil from these supposedly 'invaded' countries because our gas prices are still going up. Gas depends on oil for it to be made, and yet we don't have enough resources to keep our gas prices down. Our main resource (Saudi Arabia) has been trying diligently to produce more because they are upset at the rising gas prices in America. Point is, if this attack on Bush was true, we wouldn't be HAVING problems with gas and our prices would be low.
    • You try to accuse George Bush of ruining our economy and yet many people I talk to have reported that they have been doing much better in the past couple of months. My family is now making enough money to provide for bills, and yet even after that, they still have money left over to enough some of life's little pleasures. When the stock market crashed in 2000, my parents had severe money issues. We are now doing the best we've done in years and we're not even in that demographic that Kerry is planning to tax. We are in the middle class that George Bush supports, and we are doing just fine. Maybe your family is having trouble, but we are greatful to Bush for what he's done to improve the economy because we are doing better than ever.
    • You come up with a conspiracy theory that Bush's adminstration was deceiving about and possibly involved in the 9/11 attacks. How can Bush be involved in an attack that took years of planning, long before Bush was ever president. Nobody can say they're going to attack a building and then do it right away. It takes years of careful planning and training to lead up to that point. If Bush was involved in 9/11 that would mean that me managed to plan it in under a year and that's just ludicrous. Before you try to market the Pentagon and 9/11 and Pennsylvania as lies, try to look at the facts like you so often tell me to do.

    That's only a few of the false truths I've seen many Kerry supporters trying to pass off on to potential voters.

    I don't care who you vote for, if you're voting for Kerry that's great. The fact is that you're excersing your right to choose and that's what America is all about. We are a country that lives off the freedom to choose, and the fact that teens are beginning to get involved in the election is a great thing.

    In the past few elections, only a third of America was participating..if less. That's alarming when you think that some countries are fighting with eachother to get the freedom to choose. America has had a freedom in their hands all along, and yet they have been letting it slip through their hands.

    The fact is, I feel wealthy for the first time in years, I feel my family is safe from those who plot against us (we haven't had an attack on US soil since 9/11) and I feel like Bush has done this country good. People said Bush was too young and didn't have enough experience (Senate etc.) to handle the job. However, our economy was dying towards the end of 2000 and even after a terrorist attack that crippled our economy (people said NY would go bankrupt) the economy is on the upswing in less than 3 years. How can that be a failure? If you ask me it is one of the greatest accomplishments I've seen by a president in my lifetime.

    Please dont tell me the economy is in a sh*thole when my family is no longer having money troubles, and I myself am able to afford things I wouldn't have been able to back in 9/11.

    I guess having more money in our pockets like Bush said was a failure then. It's not a claim, its the damned truth.
     
  14. #54
    Today After Tomorrow

    Today After Tomorrow Well-Known Member

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    I'm not going to respond to much. Mainly just the whole 9/11 thing.

    First to respond to that quote it wasn't necessarily George Bush who knew. It was members of his administration. AKA Richard Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld - People who are always apart of the administration whenever a Republican is in office. Those particular people have wanted to invade the middle east as far back as when Bush Sr. was president.

    I'd also like to note that i've never read any facts on how long it took "them"(whoever that may be) to plan the 9/11 attacks. It doesn't seem right to continuously say that "it was planned years before..." when there has never been any proof of that.

    Onto the Clinton thing: Like Mark has said - Bill Clinton couldn't read minds. Maybe "they" were planning it back when he was president? Did he recieve any hard evidence that a terrorist attack inside the US would happen or was very possible? Not that I am aware of. Did George Bush recieve any hard evidence that a terrorist attack inside the US would happen or was very possible? Yes he did. That is the main point of this entire thing. Bush knew at least a month before the attacks happened and he did NOTHING to prevent it. He decided that his vacation was more important than 3,000+ American lives. Even after knowing this a month prior - Didn't Bush cut anti-terrorist funding on September 10th? So in a nutshell - Clinton: Not aware that a terrorist attack was being planned. Bush: Knew a terrorist attack was being planned and allowed it to happen.

    One more thing I read from you, Derek, about John Kerry being absent a lot for Senate meetings. Kerry was only absent a lot during the year of 2003 which is also the year he decided and anounced that he was going to run for president. He still should have been there for the meetings but I believe that is why he was absent so much - He was planning for his presidential campaign. If you look at the rest of his career that year does not match the rest.

    While talking about being absent from something important take a look at your beloved Bush. First year in office: On vacation about 46% of the time. His entire 3 3/4 years in office: On vacation about 40% of the time. While being a senator is important I think being the president is even more important and I don't think you should be on vacation that often.
     
  15. #55
    Mark

    Mark Canadian Beauty LPA Administrator

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    I would guess the ratio of voters who have switched parties is 2:1 for republicans turned democrats. This is thanks in part to Fahrenheit 9/11 and other books, news reports about rigging elections, and the overall idiocy Bush brings to the table that people are now beginning to notice.

    Yet. Halliburton is currently helping the oil fields get ready for production and you will most likely have an agreement within the next few years with regards to oil. Iraq are your oil saviours, not the Saudi Arabians. And the oil discussion is not void, it's very front-and-center. While American forces are being deterred to guard oil fields, more and more soldiers and civilians are getting hurt in the streets of Baghdad and other cities. You can't stop all the attacks in the streets, but more forces = more neutralization. Less focus on oil, more focus on cleaning up this catastrophy.

    When we say economy, it's not just pertaining to your family or the families around you. Economy is also funding for important programs, paying off debts, buying new things. While families around you have been going up in the last few months, I can guarantee their economic status has gone down in the last 2 years, they're just re-couping their losses. Over half-a-trillion in debt is not what the world calls economically stable. Especially with a couple hundred billion dollars in surplus in 1998-99

    Kerry won't be taxing you in the middle class. In fact, when Bush gave that tax cut to the richest 1% in America, he could've used the money saved by these corporations to fund programs (I believe that's what was said) until 2075. He could've tzxed that 1% and given the whole other 99% of the US a tax cut. Kerry is much much more desiring for the rights of the middle and lower class. Bush just says he'll tax you as a scare tactic. Unless Bush is a mind-reader or fortune teller, he can't tell you if Kerry's going to tax the middle-class. It's not outlined in Kerry's guide, therefore anything the republican party says about that is lies.

    If Bush cared about preventing 9/11, he would've taken the memo seriously, scheduled meetings with his head of counterterrorism, boosted airport security, and fired John Ashcroft for telling the FBI he didn't want to hear about any more tax cuts. Ashcroft is a guy who lost to a dead man in an election, what the hell is he doing as attorney general? The thing is, Bush didn't care, and should be blamed for causing your country such tragedy. 9/11 happens, and you still vote for the man who let you down, it's crazy. Don't look at how a terrorist attack hasn't happened since 9/11, look at how a terrorist attack happened on 9/11.

    Economic cycles go like this: Boom (Clinton) -> Depression (end of Clinton-era/Bush) -> Recession (Bush) -> Recovery (Bush). It was only a matter of time after a depression and recession that a recovery would happen, Bush was lucky to be in office while it happened. He had little to no bearing on an economic uprise, it's just investors feeling safer to invest in America once again after the dust settled on the uncertainty of American financial security.
     
  16. #56
    Will

    Will bread crumbs & white stones LPA Addicted VIP

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    This should be carried over to the new debate thread. :)
     
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