My journey

Discussion in 'Serious Chat' started by Zakrisk, Jun 27, 2006.

  1. #1
    Zakrisk

    Zakrisk Smoke weed.

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    I don't know if anybody will really care about what I have to say. I know that alot of people have their beliefs and have firm grounds on where they stand, but please read what I have to say first.

    I was a Christian for a long time in my early childhood. It was simply because I was blindly following a religion that everyone around me was believing. I had no reason to believe it was false. As a kid you believe in anything. You believe in Santa, you believe in the Easter Bunny, you believe in God and Jesus. It's just how everything works. If your parents are believers, you believe.

    It wasn't until I was in my teens that I started to turn away from "God" and "Jesus", the supposed characters that had taught me good and bad when I was in Sunday School, and told me stories about a man being saved in a lions den.

    Religion started to look very funny to me. I would attend youth group, and watch the people who were singing loudly and raising their hands. They looks rediculous. It seemed as though they were blindly following something that they just thought was true out of tradition.

    I started to look into more atheist ideas. I didn't want to just choose to believe in something, I wanted the hard facts and evidence to back up everything I was going into.

    One of the big things that had shaken the foundations of my beliefs in Christianity was my Biology course in high school. It seems apparant to me that with the evidence we have to support the Darwinian theory, and evolution and sorts, that it just simply overruled Christianity in my head. It made it seem like, with science now, we can throw away all of God and Jesus away.

    But I didn't stop looking. I went to my Pastor with my questions, and I had alot of them. I wanted to know why he actually believed in what he did. I had been told by many many atheists that the only evidence we have to support that Jesus actually performed his miracles was the Bible, and I figured if the only way to know if Jesus actually did that stuff is by just putting faith in it, I think it's not as easy to follow.

    But what I found was amazing. The evidence for design, the evidence for Jesus. Even very famous, well-known scientists know that it all points there. Thousands and thousands of scientists are now trying to get the things taught about Darwinism thrown out of the school. Not because they are Christians and want their beliefs taught, most of them pobably aren't anyway, but because the facts being taught about Darwinism are simply false. The embryo comparison, the cavemen, the common ancestor theory, natural selection, and, even the Big Bang theory, are being proven wrong by science itself. Don't take my word for it, take the scientists.

    Jonathan Wells, a leading scientist and author of the bestselling book "Icons of Evolution", stated:
    "I believe science is pointing strongly toward design. To me, as a scientist, the development of an embryo cries out, "Design!" The Cambrian explosion--the sudden appearance of complex life, with no evidence of ancestors--is more consistent with design than evolution. Homology, in my opinion, is more compatible with design. The origin of life certainly cries out for a designer. None of these things make as much sense from a Darwinian perspective as they do from a design perspective.

    When he was questioned by an atheist skeptic, who asked: "Let me get this straight. You're not merely saying that the evidence for evolution is weak and therefore there must be an intelligent designer. You're suggesting there is also affirmative evidence for a designer?"

    He replied, "I am. However, the two are connected, because one of the main functions of Darwinian theory is to try to make design unnecessary. This is what you experienced as you became an atheist. This is what I experienced. So showing the arguments for evolution are weak certainly opens the door to design. And then when you analyze all of the most current affirmative evidence from cosmology, physics, astronomy, biology, and so forth--well, I think you'll discover that the positive case for an intelligent designer becomes absolutely compelling."

    By the way, Allan Rex Sandage, the greatest observational cosmologist in the world--who has deciphered the secrets of the stars, plumbed the mysteries of quasars, revealed the age of globular clusters, pinpointed the distances of remote galaxies, and quantified the universe's expansion through his work at the Mount Wilson and Palomar observatories stated: "The Big Bang was a supernatural event that cannot be explained within the realm of physics as we know it. Science had taken us to the First Event, but it can't take us further to the First Cause. The sudden emergence of matter, space, time, and energy pointed to the need for some kind of transcendence."

    It makes me think.

    Did He Resurrect?

    One of the foundations of Christianity, well, basically the whole thing, is the resurrection of Jesus Christ. Without this, the whole Christian religion would be no more. But did it even actually happen? I wasn't really sure. Then I looked into the evidence.

    It is written by many historians, and is an established fact, that Jesus actually lived. It is also known that he was crucified, and that he died. The New Testament description of his death is very medically accurate, which is very suprising for the time it was written, and who it was written by.

    It is known that after he died, it was requested that he was put in a tomb, and that his body ended up mysteriously disappearing from the tomb. This is known because Jews also knew this was true, and they claimed that one of the Christians had stolen the body.

    But which is true? Did some stupid crazy Christian steal Jesus' body? Or did he resurrect?

    Well, lets look at these things.

    Jesus showed himself to a couple hundred people, who all claim to have seen him. Josephus, a Jewish historian, wrote that Jesus did resurrect.

    One of the biggest testimonies is that if Jesus wouldn't have resurrected, everyone would have lost hope. Now, I would think that if you wanted to believe someone resurrected when they didn't, more power to you, but the fact is that all of these disciples, except one, I believe, were tortured and killed for their beliefs.

    If I had a buddy of mine who told me he was going to resurrect in three days after he died, and he didn't, I wouldn't believe him at all. If someone put a gun to my head and said "Did he resurrect or not?" I would tell them he didn't. If someone said they were going to torture my wife and kids to death, and then kill me, but wouldn't if I told them my friend didn't resurrect, I would tell them he didn't.

    Yet none of the people who saw Jesus denied their beliefs. I mean, how could you if you knew it was true?

    Learning all of this really made me think. I'm sorry I couldn't explain everything I had found. I think some of it sums it up. If you want to learn more, you should read the book "The Case For A Creator". It's a book where an atheist interviews scientists to get the hard facts about everything.

    And this is where I have come in my journey. I want anyone with an open mind to respond. Please don't disregard me as a religious freak. I'm certainly not, and I'm certainly leaving my mind open to all of the possibilities. Just, right now, the possibility seems evident that there is an intelligent designer, and Jesus really did resurrect.
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2006
  2. #2
    Evil Angel

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    well i'm an atheist but i do believe that jesus existed but only as a normal human being who encouraged people to lead better lives.But i really think that the "miracles" are crap
     
  3. #3
    Dean

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    I honestly believe that, somewhere, there is an omnipotent being that had a hand in creating life. I agree with you in that sense, but whether it was the Christian God, or any other God for that matter, I don't know.
     
  4. #4
    Janie Jones

    Janie Jones Meghna is a Headcase

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    See, this may be too deep for me and shit, but for me, I agree with Dean. I think soem things are too perfect to have happened by chance, and if you keep asking why, you can only get a plausible scientific answer this far. But I certainly don't believe in the son of god, or Jesus or anything like that. True, perhaps he was a great man, andperhaps some miracles did happen. But not God, and certainly not the omnpotent power...naming what power it is, determining it's sex, form, whatever, is perhaps man's biggest stupidity thus far. See how many people have been killed in a battle to determine wether that this hypothetical (thusfar) god is called Allah or Ram. Which is why I respect buddism. It doesn't focus on a god (though some claim ?Buddha was a reincarnation of one), but more like a philosophy. Philosophies behind religions good, getting more detailed than that, bad. Don't people realize, by giving this power or whatever, a name, sex, form, etc, you are making him a man? Or a magician?
     
  5. #5
    Seinfeld

    Seinfeld We are the nobodies LPA Super Member

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    I agree on some omnipotent being existing...mainly because the most things that are proven scientificly can also be disproven...but...somehow...I don't really think there's a right or wrong at this point...maybe atheists are wrong and the christians just happened to intuitively know that they are believing in the right thing... and the other way around...

    Great...now I'm all confuzzled....I think I should stop thinking V_V

    someone else know what I mean or am I just talking to the wall?
     
  6. #6
    Messy Marj

    Messy Marj LPA Addicted VIP LPA Addicted VIP

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    I get what you mean.

    I always keep distance from this subject because you really can't prove it, unless you've been dead and back again.

    I guess the only way to know it, is to die but then again, you'll have noone to tell it to <.<

    I will shut up now.
     
  7. #7
    Seinfeld

    Seinfeld We are the nobodies LPA Super Member

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    Why shut up?...I think you made your point quite clear o_O
     
  8. #8
    Messy Marj

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    Yah..but I'm not making alot of sense :lol:
     
  9. #9
    Seinfeld

    Seinfeld We are the nobodies LPA Super Member

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    either that or you just want to make it look like you aren't... :p
     
  10. #10
    Messy Marj

    Messy Marj LPA Addicted VIP LPA Addicted VIP

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    Shush :p
     
  11. #11
    Seinfeld

    Seinfeld We are the nobodies LPA Super Member

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    :shocked: OMG....you....just....shushed me...*sits in corner and cries* :sad:
     
  12. #12
    Zakrisk

    Zakrisk Smoke weed.

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    I've been most recently studying about Genesis and the scientific proof about it. I'm finding it crazy that a book over 3,300 years old is still accurate on alot of our most recent findings.
     
  13. #13
    Evil Angel

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    so you are saying that the miracles are true??????
     
  14. #14
    Seinfeld

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    WHOAH! It just got interesting! :blink:
     
  15. #15
    Zakrisk

    Zakrisk Smoke weed.

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    I'm saying it's well documented that some of them are true. It's not hard to document that a medically established blind person can now see. You can't prove all of them are real, however. There are tons of supposed miracles going on on the television Christian channels all of the time that I think are full of it. Like people who go and say they're posessed and then they smack them with a Bible and they're healed. Alot of it is based on whether or not you're going to believe what history tells you. The miracle of the resurrection is well documented.

    The big problem with the resurrection is that people argue if the body was stolen or he really did resurrect. Well, if 500 people say they saw the same thing, and the apostles died for what they believed in, none of them denying Jesus after they saw him again, you have to use your sense. Are all of these people going to go to their death and watch their families being tortured if it didn't even really happen? I know that I wouldn't easily offer my wife and children to be brutally murdered in front of me to keep a lie going.
     
  16. #16
    NurcX

    NurcX Active Member

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    I am Atheist, ive never belived in god, ive never had any facts about him from anyone. Until the day i recive some, ill stay an atheist, maybe there was a god, and he isnt around anymore.. this is a theory, dont flame me on an idea..
     
  17. #17
    Zakrisk

    Zakrisk Smoke weed.

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    I don't know why you'd be flamed because of that. I just know that the large amount of research I've done on the subject has brought me to the facts that I think really makes it hard to beleive he's not real. Especially my most recent study of Genesis.

    I've read tons and tons of atheist points, Creationist points, Scientist points, read books and books on the subject, looked at many debates between the two opposing sides, and the conclusion I have come to is that there is a God.

    After I established that I wanted to look into research of why believe Christianity, since, of course, that isn't the only religion that believes in God. I think the evidence supporting Christianity is overwhelming, and makes me believe that it's definitely right.

    But I've never been someone who will just blindly follow things. I'm constantly thinking about things, and I've always wondered how a God figure could watch all of this hate in the world.

    One example I used to use at the church I attended, that I brought up in my Sunday school is this one:

    Let's say I'm God, and I have just had a baby. So, it's something I have created, like God supposedly created us. Next, I take that baby, and I slowly lower it into fire, sitting back and watching it being terribly tortured, but I don't do anything about it. Would you say I'm a very 'loving' God? I wouldn't say so.

    But isn't that what God is doing to the tons of innocent people who get cancer? Or the innocent people who die in war, or car accidents? All of those things that the people didn't really deserve, God is sitting back and watching it all happen, when he could easily stop it all.

    I guess some of them fall into the category of free will, but those innocent people dying from cancer that just got it because they were born that way, why? Something I still don't understand, but through my research I've come to believe that God is very real.

    According to the Bible it happens because it's all in his plan and he sees something greater past it. I don't know. It's really sad to me.
     
  18. #18
    mathew51b

    mathew51b Well-Known Member

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    I've just read through all the posts in the thread, and it has made me think. Its actually made me want to look into Religion, especially Christianity more, as then I can make my decision.

    I used to be a Christian, with my mum, my dad was strictly unreligious. I never enjoyed church and didnt really believe in God. I had no reason to.

    Then recently I have been thinking about it. The night after my grandad died my brother and cousin (who were sleeping in the same room) claim to have seen my grandad standing tall in the doorway, wave, then walk away.

    That made me wonder whether there is afterlife...angels...or something more. After that I realised, 'What if there is a God?'

    After 2 years of extensive Religious Studies, with a large section on 'God and the World' and 'Religion and Suffering'. It brought up what is called the 'inconsistent triad' (or triangle). It has different things at each corner. One corner has 'God Is Omnipotent', second corner being 'God Is Omnibenevolent' and the third being 'Suffering Exists (or something along the lines of suffering). If God is all powerful they would be able to stop suffering and bad things, if God was all loving they would want to prevent suffering...yet suffering exists.

    That might you help you come to a conclusion about...I have come to the conclusion that either; to have good there must be evil, or even as a test to them or other people, as in how other people deal with the situation and help will determine their outcome.

    Also, going back a bit, just to give my general opinion on Christianity at the moment. I believe in God, I just feel there is something more...superior. I feel that He/She has created all...life...but also 'The Big Bang', like scientists are saying, its too perfect to have happened on its own.

    I think I have waffled a lot, and linked to previously points too much, but this was more a way of helping me make a decision about God and religion.
     
  19. #19
    Anthony.

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    [​IMG]

    GENESIS!!!

    Okay, I'm outta here.
     
  20. #20
    Zakrisk

    Zakrisk Smoke weed.

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    The only problem I can encounter with Christianity and God right now is the fact that we know about apes evolving into human. It's shown through the fossil record. This is my biggest question. According to the Biblical time chart, the creation of the earth was 15 billion years ago, and then from Adam on it was almost 5.5 thousand years ago. The problem I find with this is that we've found the stone tools that the Neanderthals used 50 thousand years ago. It doesn't add up, and this is science against a belief. This can be tested, as well. This is the only thing troubling me at the moment. Maybe they were just animals that were really really close to us? Maybe? Maybe it was evolution? Who knows, really, but right now that's the only evidence I can find against it. Other than that it all points towards God and Christianity.

    I'm not just saying "Oh, it's a little thing and the rest is pointing to it so it doesn't really matter." No, this is a huge piece of evidence and I'm definitely going to look into it more.
     

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