Discussion in 'News' started by Louis, May 23, 2017.
So, really, why the hell didn't you make your own thread? EVERYONE here has that ability.
In retrospect I should have. It's been so long since I've last posted consistently that I did not even think of that. That's on me, for sure. It's why in my post I even admitted I really wasn't sure where the appropriate place to make the post was.
This has gone too far
We as moderators are not obligated to a particular opinion. Why must you conflate our responsibilities with saying certain things about an album this band releases? If all of the LPA Team happens to hate on a certain album, that's just a coincidence that really shouldn't concern you. If you think we poorly moderate this place because we hate on one album and love another, then I suggest that you reacquaint yourself with what forums are and what moderators do on forums. We enforce rules and policies and try to foster healthy dialogues that don't devolve into flame wars. Being LPA Moderators has no bearing on what we think of music and what we say about it. That has everything to do with us as music listeners, and nothing else.
Now, if at any time you see a moderator giving someone a hard time about their opinion on something, you should say something - but I never see moderators doing that. I see moderators civilly expressing their opinions, even if it means disagreeing with other members in this community. I'm sincerely hard pressed to find the double standard you are seeing. Otherwise, they are joking around, perhaps doing some minor trolling. Our community allows for some silliness and embellishment from time to time, and we're proud of that.
Also, why must you conflate Derek's responsibility as an administrator for this site with his responsibilities for AltWire? That makes no sense. Now, the two are closely connected, no doubt - largely because it is through a mix of our reputation as a fan-site, and AltWire's broader press role, that we get certain exclusives. It is why Derek, unlike the rest of us, can listen to One More Light before we can, and why LPA gets interviews with the band on a somewhat frequent basis. However, he can write a perfectly, schmoozy review for that album and still conduct his responsibilities here appropriately. Those remain separate.
Lastly, you do realize that you hijacked this thread with a novella about a review that wasn't even the subject of this thread, right? You do remember that I posted a video from Linkin Park's YouTube video, and *not* Derek's AltWire review, right? Your excuse that you didn't think to post elsewhere, especially in the very thread that is about his AltWire review, seems ignorant at best, but otherwise disingenuous. It's hard not to think that you came here just to shit on Derek and criticize the moderators. And regardless of whether or not you intended to come off otherwise, it is exactly how you're coming off, and clearly none of us appreciate that.
With that said, any more discussion on Derek's review should go to that thread. I will not allow any more discussion on that topic in this thread. Thank you.
I'm just gonna stop you right here and tell you that you clearly don't know much about the members here (unfortunately as I am late I am unable to prevent the shitstorm).
I agree with this statement. The only problem with your statement is that (and I do think Chester overreacted for the record) they're not reacting because of criticism. They're reacting because people are calling them sellouts trying to make easy money on a record that they put a lot of personal emotions and stories into.
I agree Mike wont call the old fans like you and me "Motherfu**ers" or "Idiots" during interviews or whatever, he will say it on songs. Which is better than what Chester is doing.
If I could "love" this reply, I would. Thank you, @Louis for saying what most of us were thinking. Also, just for the record, I still don't hate Meteora.
Woosh. What I'm talking about is how a member here is called a dbz amv fanboy and nothing is done for it, and is instead lauded for the comment. Instead, rational opinions are being dismissed for shitty put downs like that and is commended and even encouraged by people like you. I was never disrespectful of anyone's opinions. I never said people couldn't enjoy the album. Get off the pedestal, Louis
People who actually study music don't get hung up on deciding what's good and bad. Music can (and should be) objectively analysed, but this is completely separate to the notion that some music is "good" and some music is not. Because again, that cannot be objectively quantified.
The way I look at it is like this: there are objective things we can study and talk about in music, but they have zero bearing on whether the music is "good" or "bad". Put another way, we can, and should, talk about the objective features in music, but at the end of the day that doesn't imply that some objective things are better than others.
For example, Kirk Hammett is pretty much objectively a better guitarist than Brad Delson. But I still prefer the guitar work on One More Light than Hardwired... To Self-Destruct. As another example, OML objectively follows standard pop song structures, and is objectively far simpler compositionally and less experimental than this. But I'd absolutely consider OML the better piece of music, subjectively.
I think this is what you mean by grey areas; there is certainly both an objective and subjective side to music. My opinion however is that these objective aspects have no bearing on whether something is "good" or not. As an example, you could argue that OML is objectively bad because it contains simple, short songs with little experimentation. However, so does Nick Drake's Pink Moon which is lauded by critics. So even the simplest indicators we could use to determine objective quality fail at a base level.
So the only way we can rate music is through subjectivity. For Derek, OML is absolutely an 'A'. There's no objective reason why it shouldn't be. For someone else, it might be a 'D', and again, that's fine. But there's no reason for Derek to give the album a B ranking, because to him, it's not a B, it's an A. And that's the key point: Derek wasn't trying to give the album an objective ranking, he was simply telling us how much he enjoys the record. So calling him out and saying that he's not fit to review the album is meaningless. Because that 'A' is subjective, not objective.
(And for the record, I completely agree with what you said in another post about Meteora (despite not being a huge fan myself), and it's another good example of what I'm trying to say above. Many people would argue that Meteora is an "objectively bad" album, but if, say, Derek came along tomorrow, gave it an A, and made a cohesive argument why, well, that's his opinion and while we're free to disagree and discuss why, it should be respected).
I personally study copyright law and management in the music business but a large portion of my university is music theory, music therapy, commercial music, or some other music major. A lot of my closest friends are really intellectual music students. And I can definitely say I agree.
Also +1000% for mentioning Pink Moon.
Great post, thank you for this.
Haha, we must fight the good fight for Meteora - Linkin Park's best album.
What? Don't change the narrative - I addressed your direct point when you said that there were double standards. I don't know what your story about some member being called this or that has anything to do with what I said to you. And by the way, if you see anyone actually being put down for something, call it out - because we don't like seeing it any more than you do. And if you're accusing me or any one on the LPA Team of commending and encouraging that kind of behavior, I must say you frankly know nothing about how we operate - and other members can corroborate that.
And I never accused you of disrespecting opinions or hating on OML. Where did I even say that I cared about your music opinions here? I purely talked about your response to Derek's review and how you've conflated that with LPA Team behavior. You can't accuse me of being on a pedestal when it seems like you're forgetting what we're talking about here. I sincerely can't take you seriously when you change the narrative like that.
Anyway, I've said enough. I frankly don't have any more energy for this.
Mike sounds like a desperate apologist in these vids. Stop playing musical scientist and just make another HT. How stupid to turn that idea down when it was the best selling record of the decade.
The hell with wanting another HT, how about they make another mmm cookies album.
Just to touch on the moderation thing from earlier, us giving our opinions on the album isn't moderating, it's just us giving our opinions as fans.
Adding to that, the staff team don't unanimously love the album! I think the only ones who out-and-out love it are myself and @Derek. At least one staff member thinks it absolutely sucks. Our opinions as a community are diverse, like always.
See: Selling out.
I'd actually love more than nothing for them to do Hybrid Theory 3.
So it can go ahead and tank spectacularly and we never have to hear about "going back to the good style" ever again.
A comedy album would be kinda cool. MMM...Cookies/Heavy Nu-Metal Style would be entertaining as a studio album. Just make fun of the nu metal cliches.
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