Discussion in 'News' started by Louis, May 23, 2017.
Mike needs to keep Chester on a leash
...okay...I'm done lol.
LOL he has a point, though. Chester shouldn't be representing the band with the recent things he has been saying. Even other musicians and shit have spoken on it at this point. Mike is a MUCH better representative for the band. After all, Linkin Park is Mike's band, it's always been. Chester is becoming border line cringe worthy with his comments lately. Meeting him outside to fight? I mean really?
You just kind of verified what I was trying to say here. This album has different meanings and a different impact for each listener. You listen to the album and deem it a trite oversimplified pile of pop garbage, but others see something different. There's been recovering drug addicts who hear 'Halfway Right' and relate to Chester's struggles with addiction. People listen to 'One More Light' and think of a loved one they lost. Others hear 'Heavy' and relate to the feeling of having everything go wrong at once.
To those people? This album isn't garbage. It's an important record in their lives and what they needed right now. Which again brings me back to the point that just because YOU hate it, doesn't mean its bad.
Something I've pointed out before and Mike said a variation of recently (I think it was Chesters "No you're the pussies!" interview) is that a lot of your appreciation of this album stems a lot from how much pop you listened to before. Mike, during the interview, said that if you didn't like pop, it would all sounds the same to you the same way someone completely unfamiliar with death metal might hear nothing but screaming, but a more casual listener will heard subtleties and nuance that others wouldn't.
It seems to be me, like I've said once before a few times, that a lot of people who are vibing on it big time don't have much past experiences with these sounds or this style of music; this is their first real introduction to anything besides Top 40 hits they've heard in passing. Because of that, because it's a style done in a new-but-familiar approach with a band they're already familiar with, it's an entirely new, eye opening experiment. Not unlike the first time they played Hybrid Theory and might not have heard much "heavy" music up til that point.
I can't, objectively, explain to you why that album or those songs "aren't good". Can't be done.
I can, however, articulate what the band is doing and how it stacks up their contemporaries, as someone who has considerable experience with that sound and style of music. I can point out what I find are distracting elements, and I can compare and contrast old "mainstream pop" with a new Park and see how it stacks up. I can also, based on some of the less articulate defenses of the new content, figure out how much of the positive opinion is based on having not heard a lot of a lot of pop, and who themselves will dismiss most of it, even when liking the new LP material. With a lot of the negative reviews, it seems the vast majority don't, in fact, bash the band for the new direction the way I think a lot of fans seem to be dismissing the bad reviews are doing. Indeed, some of the few supportive remarks do seem to be based in commending their balls in striking out into, for them, uncharted territory. The problems arise when they break down into the nitty gritty of why the individual review doesn't think the songs land, and for whatever reason lately there seems to be nothing but dismissive remarks about negative reactions no matter what they are or how they're worded.
I don't think I've ever seen such a sensitive album release period, even for a band that seems to alienate half theirr fanbase with every album. But with those albums, people expected the "this isn't nu-metal!" crybabies and just dismissed them. I don't ever think I've seen people so virulently offended (for lack of a better word) by criticism of a new album before. I think both Living Things and Hunting Party had quite a few very vocal detractors from the times of their release and really had little problems with vocalizing their thoughts on the matter. For some reason this album specifically should be treated as off-limits, or any criticism should be dismissed as white-trash upset that there's not enough screaming. That's just not the case. There's no reason to dismiss literally every dissenting voice as someone personally angry with the band. I think now more than ever, for some reason, that's treated like the case.
I understand how someone would like One More Light. I really don't think any people who do like it think there's a good reason for not liking it. Or that it's fair to articulate problems they might have with it (I've literally been told I had "said the same things too many times" on here, and asked why I was still posting if I "hated" the material...). This, in and of itself, isn't a huge problem (not the best attitude to have but whatever...), but even in this thread, bad attitudes and thinly-veiled personal attacks aside, most of the criticisms of the music is still being dismissed as "You're prejudiced against the style because ____". Don't you think after a certain point that would get annoying?
You keep harping on about how this album is "objectively isn't good", but the only reason you seem to be able to give why is that most critics don't like it. But considering most critics will tell you that their opinions and ratings are completely subjective, that's really not a strong argument at all. I'm trying not to sound condescending, because that's not my intention, but you seem to think that music can be objectively rated as good or bad, and yet you haven't given any parameter that can be used to determine this except for critical reception. And as others have said, many great, classic albums were critical flops on release, so that's a very, very weak argument.
So, don't know about you guys, but I'm ready for LP8
Can anyone link me to some of the interviews where Chester is saying these things? I thought it was just one incident but it seems like it's been happening across different mediums.
Also, I really hope LP8 is more like ATS or... some R and B rock. Yeah I said it.
I am sincerely perplexed by this whole discussion.
@Jayhov - your "thesis", which was nothing short of just shitting on @Derek's review of the album and his work on AltWire, was completely unnecessary. I don't want to dismiss any opinion you have about the review, or about the album, or whatever - those are your opinions. But this whole conversation comes down to the same, stupid shit that I encounter in these threads time and time again: "your opinion differs from mine, and whether I give a reason for it or not, you're wrong." That is basically what it boils down to, most times.
It goes without saying that biases escape no one. Nothing in life is subjective - everything we do, from science to album reviews, is embedded with perspective, experience, and bias. However, if we let that stop us from expressing opinions, or from making an effort to conduct analyses - scientific or otherwise - then we might as well never say anything. Yes, Derek gave a very positive review of the album, even after only a few listens. He could review the album a year from now and give it a D, for all we know - but there's really nothing wrong with that either. If anything, the problem is not with Derek - the problem (which isn't even a problem) is that songs and albums resonate differently at different times, depending on where we are in life, what mood we're in, and what we've been listening to otherwise.
So, it's a truly unnecessary effort to come in here and attack Derek, and then disguise it as an opportunity to foster discussion, when really you're showboating your own opinions and perspectives and asking people to respect them while shitting on someone else's. That's incredibly disrespectful, and I don't appreciate it.
Also, I saw some commentary on journalistic ethics... do you seriously want to take an album review and put it in the same category as proper journalism? Writing an album review is much different - categorically it is closer to an op-ed piece, but perhaps more informal. The fact that you want to take a review that Derek wrote on his budding site, AltWire, and hold it to some standard that isn't appropriate for that type of writing is absurd to me.
I'm seriously fed up with those of you who cannot open your minds a bit, and somehow cannot state your opinions just matter-of-factly and not dismiss those of others. You can disagree, you can discuss that disagreement, and that is discussion and dialogue that we welcome here on LPA. But my God, is it really that hard for someone to say, "I love this album" and another person to say, "I don't like this album," and be okay with that? Holy hell.
I understand what you are saying, but there are ways to disconnect the personal emotion from a project and view it objectively. If two people love a song universally hated because they "get it", doesn't really change the criticisms of the song (as long as they are true).
On a positive note the lyrics were better than usual.
This needs to be printed out and framed. Thank you. I can't believe what you're saying here is so fucking hard for people to understand.
That's just not true. There's plenty of reasons this is bad especially when compared to other pop music (before I get accused of being a DBZ AMV LP style fanboy again) that comes out today. I could get into details but the dude up above me a few posts actually said it better.
As for "classic" albums that were controversial upon released but then acclaimed, that's very rare and I HIGHLY doubt you or anyone else defending this album actually believes that is the case with this record, but only time will tell on that aspect.
This is nuts. Reminds me of when A Thousand Suns first came out. I just don't understand why people are wasting their energy if they don't like this album, or any album, from any artist. I can't imagine myself shitting on an artist/band all father I don't even have them on my iPod by choice.
Just move on if you don't like something.
"Your perspective does not align with my perspective. You must burn."
Excellent post. Be careful though, people like the guy who said this to me will come for you next! -
"Disclaimer: this album is not for those who still watch Linkin Park and Dragon Ball Z anime music videos. This album is not for those who judge an album by it's genre but don't dig into the lyrics, the numerous layers of sound (which you all call generic pop beats), and warm positivity that we almost never get to hear from the band. This album is not for those stuck in the past waiting for Linkin Park to repackage an old sound just to get called out for being unoriginal. Linkin Park never wins with their fanbase and they are well aware of that."
And somehow not one word is said about this stupidity/blatantly offensive paragraph lmao
Derek, I'm honestly really disappointed in you and some of the admins. I understand the comraderie you and some of the staff here have for each other, but to say music, or any artistic medium in general can be taken as completely subjective just isn't true. You guys have shit on meterora (again, an album I have grown to dislike heavily, save for breaking the habit), yet people that don't fit the mold of disliking this album aren't being "open minded enough" or other bullshit members have said on here simply screams drinking the kool aid.
If you're arguing that two white girls and Big Bang theory has as much artistic merit as shows like breaking bad and the wire, fine, that's an opinion I don't have but I can respect it if you truly believe that in terms pure subjectivity. Same can be said for other mediums of art, but I'll end comparisons there. It's just.. if moderates can often shit on a Linkin park album and not understand how it offends some people here on a Linkin park website, you have to understand that these people view that album as an "A" album, yet are often shit on by you and others. I feel that has created a lot of animosity between pro-meteora fans that can often spew the antagonistic stuff you see here. Of course that's not every situation, trolls happen on the internet, but regardless, my point stands and I leave you with a question: is music, art, purely subjective in your mind, or is it a combination of subjectivity and objectivity?
Edit: @Blackee Dammet, reading your post really articulated what I've been trying to say and you did it way better than I ever could. Thank you for that post. I agree with you 100%.
Seems to me that you have a real axe to grind with this place and the staff.
Yea Chester is acting like a child with similar words
Nah. I just don't like double standards when it comes to moderating.
Separate names with a comma.