Let's Review - Part 6 - The Hunting Party

Discussion in 'Linkin Park Chat' started by Qwerty19, Jan 8, 2025.

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What are the top 3 qualities of The Hunting Party?

  1. Accessibility (Catchy, easy to get into, ...)

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  2. Consistency (All killer / No Filler)

    1 vote(s)
    12.5%
  3. Creativity (Breaks convention)

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  4. Diversity (Offers a lot of variety)

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  5. Instrumentation (Analog or Digital)

    8 vote(s)
    100.0%
  6. Live Performances (Album translates well in a live settings)

    2 vote(s)
    25.0%
  7. Lyrics

    1 vote(s)
    12.5%
  8. Songwriting (Melodies, Song Structures, Layering, ...)

    4 vote(s)
    50.0%
  9. Production / Mixing

    1 vote(s)
    12.5%
  10. Vocal Performance

    4 vote(s)
    50.0%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. #1
    Qwerty19

    Qwerty19 LPA Super Member LPA Super Member

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    Follow-up thread to
    Onto the visceral stuff!
    ----------------

    Top 3 Qualities
    • Instrumentation : The Hunting Party is an album where the band undeniably pushed themselves with the use of their instruments. In the drumming department, Rob shines on almost every track - with some highlights being KTTK, GATS, or ALITS. Guitar-wise, Brad plays parts that are beyond the usual technicality of his contributions - for example the solos in MTG or ALITS. It is true, however, that it can be argued a few of the experiments turned out a bit … unconventional - think of War solo. But overall, the attempts at stepping out of their comfort zone certainly deserve some credit. Throughout the record, there are multiple cool riffs, drum fills, or even more ambient guitar parts to be found. And while electronics are largely absent from THP, they are still present in subtle dosage, and adds a nice touch of atmosphere / modernity when they appear
    • Songwriting : I have the opinion that some of the songs on the album are up there with the best material of the band, at least when it comes to ambitious and expensive songwriting. A track like GATS, with its long intro, chorus variations, extended bridge, and extended outro, offers something Linkin Park hasn’t come up with often, and even less when it comes to their heavier music. A track like Mark The Graves, meandering from riff to riff, showcases a progressive quality that the band has rarely had on large display. And then, you have a track like KTTK, that channels an hardcore punk spirit at its core, then combines it with Pendulum vibes on the first verses, switch things up to a gnarly rap rock in the second verse, and finally explodes into a chaotic final. To be fair, the songwriting quality of the album comes with two asterix. One is that I believe some of the other tracks don’t quite reach the same height. The other is that while the ideas explored on this record were relatively fresh for the band, this came at the expense of a bit of originality in the wider musical spectrum. By that, I mean that tracks like War or Rebellion, while pretty solid on their own terms, are close to being tribute/almost-parody tracks of signature sounds well established by other bands
    • Production / Mixing : probably my most controversial pick so far, as this is one feature that has been vastly critized when it comes to THP. And truth to be told, I have also experienced the record sounding very muddy on a few sound systems. However, the reason I’m picking this as a highlight is that I think the record excels at establishing a certain aesthetic and sticking to it – with the notable exception of UIG, which in my opinion, sounds out of place. For the most part, still, the record has a specific edge to it. The drums have an analog quality, and sound excellent on a lot of the songs. I am especially thinking of the snare tone on songs like KTTK or ALITS – great stuff! The guitar tones are really heavy and gnarly on some of the tracks, for example making the riff on Wastelands hit pretty hard. The vocals are not doubled or having that much effect on them, giving off a live flavor to the album. All in all, the project is more or less cohesive, and although it doesn’t have the same polished quality as other LP ouputs, I think there is some richness to find in that
    Top Issue
    • Consistency : in my opinion, that it by far the biggest issue that plagues the record. Here, I really define consistency as the jump in quality between the great stuff, and the not so great stuff. While I stand by the praise I gave to songs like GATS or KTTK, I think others songs really miss the mark. Wastelands is a song where I can imagine the band having a cool riff idea, a somewhat cool drum idea, but not much else inspiration about how to turn it into a full song, much less giving it a chorus. UIG is a song that screams “Couldn’t make it to Transformers, let’s force my way up on THP”. And then, there are other songs standing somewhere in the middle, like AFN or Final Masquerade. Those are tracks where I can hear the potential, but a few choices stop them from delivering it at 100% (YOU SAY!)
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2025
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  2. #2
    Tocaraca

    Tocaraca Well-Known Member

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    This album brings me back to a specific time back around 2014/2015, and the nostalgia does elevate this album for me for sure. I recently placed it at #3 in my album rankings, overtaking Minutes to Midnight and beaten by only A Thousand Suns and Living Things. I'm sure MtM may overtake it again soon, but this album has really hit the spot for me lately.

    I'm actually going to get the Top Issue out of the way for me first:
    • Production/Mixing: This album is definitely missing something in the production sense. The bass is not prominent enough overall, which is a shame because this is simply a rock album, which would benefit a lot from more interplay between bass and electric guitar. It's not like Living Things where there wouldn't really be any room for bass to shine. Moreover, many of the songs also lack that real oomph in the choruses; both the vocals and guitars are just sort of diluted, I'm not really sure what they were going for.
    I'm assuming that I don't have to format my post in the traditional way, so I'm gonna go into this with my regular style of album review: track by track
    1. Keys to the Kingdom: I've never been sure about the filter on Chester's voice in the intro, but when the drums and especially the main riff come in, this song rocks like a motherfucker. I really like Mike's sung verse, and Chester's screams hit super hard during subsequent choruses. Mike's rap verse is pretty silly in this one though and doesn't even really fit the song that well IMO. The breakdown/guitar solo is fantastic and definitely the best part of the song. Unfortunately this is one of the songs where the guitar work especially in the first half feels kinda let down by the production; sure, it's good, but it could be better you know.
    2. All for Nothing: I would be very interested to hear the original version with Mike singing the entire chorus instead of Page Hamilton; nevertheless, the chorus to this song has a great melody and great harmonies on top of an excellent riff. The opening riff to the song is also excellent, and somewhat hot take here but I love all of Mike's rapping in this song (the second verse also has cool production). Cool guitar solo as well. The big issue is that the backing vocals by Chester are pretty underwhelming all things considered, not sure why kept it chant-like the entire way through rather than putting his screams in your face. That entire "your word, obey" section is lackluster.
    3. Guilty All the Same: I second the assessment from @Qwerty19 here, the long progressive-ish nature of this song is a highlight of the album. The only issue I have with this song is that for some reason the chorus just doesn't really hit me. The song has a fantastic build-up and a bunch of great riffs, but Chester singing "YOU'RE GUILTY ALL THE SAME" is missing something either from a vocal delivery or production standpoint (maybe both) and the instrumentation behind doesn't serve it powerfully either (although it's a great riff in isolation). The bridge section with Rakim is outstanding though, especially the instrumentation behind, where each guitar chug has a kind of atmospheric-sounding flourish behind it, I like the production there. The ending guitar solo is good, but much like other parts of this song it feels like it should hit harder than it actually does.
    4. The Summoning: This is a great little interlude. The eerie buildup is done very nicely
    5. War: Their punkiest song to date. Chester's tone during the "laying down your life" line slaps and all of his screams are fantastic. This is also one of the best guitar solos Brad Delson has ever done (I heard that he could never reproduce it, so they never performed the song live). The "waaaaaaaaaaaaaar destroooooyeeeeeeeeer" thing is quite silly though, and Chester's vocals in the verses (aside from when he is REALLY intense) don't really do that much for me.
    6. Wastelands: This song actually has an atmosphere! The guitar in the verses actually has that proper distorted "metal" sound to it which has been missing for the entire first half of the album otherwise, the drum tone is fantastic, and Mike's rapping is high tier on this one for me. The chorus has a subtle synth-choir sound in the back I think, which is the missing piece that actually makes the chorus feel full and not underwhelming. It certainly isn't one of the best choruses they've ever done from a melodic/vocal standpoint, but it isn't bad, especially Chester's heightened intensity at the end of the second chorus. The bridge section is just really cool in all aspects. Far better than all of the previous songs in my opinion, and where the album actually starts to get good.
    7. Until It's Gone: I don't agree that this song doesn't fit on the album. I find the way that Wastelands transitions into it is done flawlessly, and this is one of my favorite songs on the album. The production is actually good; they really nailed the anthem-style feel here. Chester's vocals in this song are amazing. It's cool to have a main riff in 6/4 time instead of the usual 4/4. I've always liked the lyrics in this song too, however simple they may be. I particularly love the final "you don't know what you've got" section; fantastic harmonies, great wide atmosphere, just hits super hard. Amazing song.
    8. Rebellion: I looked back at some old threads when The Hunting Party came out and it seems Rebellion was not universally loved. ????? This song is the biggest banger from them to date. Absolutely epic riffs and drumming, The interplay between Mike and Chester is brilliant, I LOVE the build-up of harmonies throughout the song, and the breakdown with Chester's screams is just missing some oomph to the screams themselves, which again could be either due to a worse performance by Chester at the time or just a production thing, it's difficult to tell. Another outstanding track.
    9. Mark the Graves: The only song where you can actually hear Phoenix's bass playing lol. Over recent years this has been my favorite on the album, although UIG and Rebellion might have overtaken it now. I find the first minute of the song to be a bit directionless; the opening riff is fucking amazing, but the instrumentation sorta loses steam as it meanders into different riffs IMO. But then when the instrumentation takes a step back and makes way for Chester's vocals the song becomes amazing again. For me this is an absolute LP classic. The harmonies during the second verse are great, and the first chorus doesn't let me down personally; the notes Chester is hitting are really high and the melody is very engaging. Great guitar solo too. All of this has amazing drumming throughout. Those final "NOTHING RIIIIIGHT" screams are sublime.
    10. Drawbar: MtG's transition into this one is lovely. I still maintain that this track sort of feels like it's building up to something and then fizzles out before it ever reaches what I was hoping for, but this doesn't bother me as much as it used to, and nevertheless the general soundscape is absolutely beautiful, I love Rob's marching band drum style here and the build-up itself is super engaging. While Session has a more satisfying payoff, Drawbar is a slightly more resonating instrumental for me overall, and takes the #1 spot for instrumentals. No, I do not care that Tom Morello's feature was "wasted", if they wanted to make a full song and not just an instrumental interlude I'm sure they would have, or if not, I still don't really care. This is a great track.
    11. Final Masquerade: This song has the same sort of vibe as Until It's Gone, and the fact that both songs are on the album prevents either one from feeling particularly out of place. This song also just feels right after the cooldown effect that Drawbar has on the album. I've gone from loving this song to finding it overrated and then back to loving it again recently. It has the same sort of vibe as Leave Out All the Rest but with much more intensity, and therefore the cheesiness of the melodies is definitely shoved down the listener's ears, but I would also argue it is a beautiful song. Great harmonies, lovely bridge, the production is much better than many other songs on the album.
    12. A Line in the Sand: I was about to go into specifics, but then I realized I simply love everything about this song. Mike's singing on top of the A Thousand Suns-esque atmosphere, the DRUMMING, the way the guitar riffage builds up starting in the left ear then coming into both sides, Chester's added harmony line in the second verse,... I suppose the first and second choruses do feel a little bit diluted, but that is a problem with many songs on the album. The outro has some of Brad's best guitar work and that feel of it diffusing back into the first verse at the end is a brilliant way to finish the album. This track is actually my new favorite on the album, and probably up there in Linkin Park's top 10.
    If I had to rank all of the songs on the album I would do it like this (numerical ratings obviously subject to change)
    1. A Line in the Sand (9.9/10)
    2. Rebellion (9.7/10)
    3. Until It's Gone (9.7/10)
    4. Mark the Graves (9.6/10)
    5. Drawbar (9.4/10)
    6. Final Masquerade (9.3/10)
    7. Wastelands (9/10)
    8. All for Nothing (8.7/10)
    9. Keys to the Kingdom (8.5/10)
    10. Guilty All the Same (8.5/10)
    11. War (8.5/10)
    My Top 3 Qualities in this album were Instrumentation, Songwriting, and Vocal Performance. Obviously I already touched on instrumentation and songwriting for each track, but for vocal performance, I'm not referring to Chester but rather to Mike's vocals. His sung verse on Keys to the Kingdom, and then his vocals all throughout Rebellion and A Line in the Sand are killer. Some of his best vocal performances to date, IMO only beaten by Skin to Bone, Invisible, and Sorry for Now.
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2025
  3. #3
    StevenCressler

    StevenCressler Not at all biased towards metal

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    Instrumentation for the great riffs, vocal performance because that's always the case for LP, and lyrics because while I do like the angsty stuff for personal listening, the lyric writing is much better and more mature than usual for them on this album imo
     
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  4. #4
    Sasuke

    Sasuke Modern Prog enjoyer LPA Super Member

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    Positive

    Instrumentation: By far the album's biggest strength. Amazing drumming, organic riffs, and sometimes you even get to hear the bass.:lol:

    Negative

    Songwriting: Even though I listened to the album a lot, especially when it first came out, I think it's their least inspired effort when it comes to memorable or catchy melodies, something that should be the number one requirement for a Linkin Park album. With the exception of Final Masquerade, there's not a single chorus I would call great.
     
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  5. #5
    Wasabi GOD

    Wasabi GOD Praise Brad Delson, our Lord and Savior. LPA Addict

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    Top 3 Qualities

    • Instrumentation: Honestly, Brad and especially Rob have stepped up to another level on this record. The way "KTTK" starts is just intense, and "GATS" sounds so different compared to what they did on "HT" to "Living Things." It's just so raw. The drums hit hard, and while not the most perfect or technical solos from Brad, they fit the album and sound really good, especially that final solo on "ALITS"! Brad and Rob are absolutely on fire there, holy shit! Also, having Daron on "Rebellion" is just so SOAD-ish, it's perfect. It's also great to have a song like "War," which ventures into something the band has never done before, going all punk.

    • Songwriting: I think it's like a lot of the other albums, but the band always writes amazing choruses. I think even songs like "Wastelands" or "Until It's Gone," while being some of the weaker tracks overall, still manage to be at least a little catchy, while songs like "GATS" or "Rebellion" just absolutely bang.

    • Live Performances: While often overlooked lately, I LOVED the energy the songs had in a live setting. "GATS" needs to return as an opener, and also bring back "Rebellion"—I'm pretty sure Emily would kill it. The album is literally written to be played live, so fucking do it, goddamn!

    Top Issue

    • Production / Mixing : I think the mixing and production of the record is definitely something that could have been better. While I don’t know much about this topic, I think, while I love the rawness of The Hunting Party, it sounds, at some points, a little too raw, if that makes any sense.
     
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  6. #6
    StevenCressler

    StevenCressler Not at all biased towards metal

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    I do agree about the production, especially on War and GAtS
     
  7. #7
    Qwerty19

    Qwerty19 LPA Super Member LPA Super Member

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    I think there is a good point being made here, which I suppose is why a lot of people feel THP is less inspired or forced. At the very least, THP is the album that relies the least on catchiness and big hooks. I think sometimes it works fine - KTTK chorus doesn't really need a big melodic chorus to kill it - sometimes less, for example Wastelands.

    Where I disagree is Final Masquerade having the best chorus. That one never quite did it for me in its normal rendition, the acoustic one really works well though. I'd argue GATS has the catchiest, best chorus on the album, although I guess it is a bit repetitive and could have used a small motive variation in its second half.
     
  8. #8
    Tocaraca

    Tocaraca Well-Known Member

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    I do agree that the choruses on this album are generally underwhelming from a melodic standpoint and that keeps the album from being truly top tier, but I would say GATS has a pretty underwhelming chorus despite its catchy melody. It could have done with some harmonies like what Mark the Graves and A Line in the Sand have. IMO Until It's Gone and Rebellion have fantastic choruses, and All For Nothing has a good melody for its chorus but Page Hamilton's vocals are a bit too sterile-sounding (and the post-chorus chant section is not good).
     
  9. #9
    Christøffer

    Christøffer The Cure for Mr. Hahn's Itch LPA Contributor

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    I loved The Hunting Party when it came out, and it spoke in many ways to the things I was into at the time: guitar solos, complex drum work, metal and punk influence. I heard "Guilty All the Same" for the first time on a local radio station and I thought it kicked ass. I think it's among their weaker releases overall, but I still really enjoy it.
    • Instrumentation - Probably The Hunting Party's strongest aspect. For me, Rob Bourdon is the hero of this album. Without a doubt. I generally have high opinions of Rob's work across Linkin Park albums, and I appreciate his particular style and feel he imparted to their music. He went all out for this album, no holds barred. We all know the story of how he blew out his back training up for it! He's not bringing anything earth-shattering to table, and he's not reshaping drumming in an elite way like a Mike Portnoy, a Neil Peart, or a John Bonham - but that's fine. Rob's drumming here brings a real believability to more technical music from a band that has never been known for technicality. I love some of his fills here, like on "Keys to the Kingdom." I also personally think his drumming is what grounds "Final Masquerade" and, for me, makes that song not feel so out of place on the album. Brad's work is also noteworthy, and he has some great guitar parts here that work well. That very melodic, methodical scale-driven solo for "All for Nothing" and the tapping on "Mark the Graves" stick out to me particularly. "Guilty All the Same" was a fantastic lead single and the guitar riffage combined with Rob's very intense drumming and strong snare presence really drives it home for me. It's without contest the most technical album Linkin Park has made to date.
    • Live Performance - I was most connected with the band's live performances during this era, so I may be biased to this, but I think these songs are great live. We've gotten two of them debuted recently and they seem to still really hold up, especially "Keys to the Kingdom." They're all pretty energetic, intense songs, and get the band members all really involved (other than Joe I suppose...this was his biggest "take selfies onstage" phase :lol:).
    • Songwriting - I'm quite a big fan of "Mark the Graves" and I think it's best prog-like composition the band has done. "Guilty All the Same" is not far behind it with its long buildups and instrumental passages, and the Rakim feature on that song was absolutely brilliant. Mike has often talked in recent years about those watershed rock-meets-rap moments that inspired Hybrid Theory, like Aerosmith and Run-DMC, or Anthrax and Public Enemy - I really think this song embodies that spirit so well by bringing in Rakim, while also at the same time playing up the progressive and "visceral" angles. We get quite a few verses from Mike on this album while the band still reaches for the more progressive or hardcore-influenced sound. "Keys to the Kingdom," "All for Nothing," "Wastelands" all come to mind. I think, with a couple of exceptions, The Hunting Party does really well in songwriting given its focus, which was essentially to create bangers and pay homage to some of their rock roots. There are a couple of weird choices along the way, but in majority I think this album accomplishes its goals with well-written metal/rock songs.
    I think there are two glaring problems with this album that most people also talk about.
    • The consistency, specifically because of the "oddball" tracks. I could understand having "Final Masquerade" as one downtempo, poppier song; I've already voiced how I find it more related to the aesthetics of the record overall. But "Until It's Gone" really has no place being on this album. It's more in the vein of "New Divide" and a bit tone-deaf to the rest of the album. We also get two transitional tracks, which is fine, except "Drawbar" also seems a little misplaced. People can debate all day about "Well they jammed with Morello; that's what came of it" and how it's not a wasted feature, whatever the argument is. That's fine. But including that Morello feature on this album specifically really reveals a weakness in the sequencing and cohesiveness. "Drawbar" adds yet another track to the album that obfuscates the intention to be "visceral," "cathartic," what have you. If Transformers: Age of Extinction reject wasn't there it would feel much better to keep "Drawbar." It's a great piece. But in the context of how the album ended up, it just doesn't feel right to me.
    • The production and mixing. I think this is a very widely voiced thing with this album. Chester's vocals at points feel a little off in the production sense, and some of the songs don't quite mesh the way you would expect them to sonically. This was famously the live-take Linkin Park album, so I suspect that influenced the sound a good bit. I think this is much less of an issue than the previous point, and take far less issue with this than some people. But I do think it's prominent enough to mention.
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2025
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  10. #10
    Qwerty19

    Qwerty19 LPA Super Member LPA Super Member

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    Fully agree.

    In opposition to Final Masquerade, which does keep a more organic tone, I think UIG clashes with the ethos of the album. It has more of a poppy synthetic feel, almost like something from Living Things, but with big heavy guitars added on top. It's not a terrible track - albeit far from my favorites - but it has the annoying side-effect of making the album loose focus for a moment, as there is no gritty punk/hardcore/metal visceral spirit to be found here.
     
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  11. #11
    StevenCressler

    StevenCressler Not at all biased towards metal

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    I agree with everything Chris said other than it being one of their weaker albums
     
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  12. #12
    Qwerty19

    Qwerty19 LPA Super Member LPA Super Member

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    Little bump, OML hopefully coming up tomorrow, if i get some time.

    THP is the 2nd record so far to have a quality at 100% (Instrumentation) after ATS (Creativity).

    It'll be interesting to make a statistics summary of it all once all 8 threads are up.
     
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  13. #13
    Deliveranze

    Deliveranze Well-Known Member

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    This album, plus discovering Mike’s Fort Minor material around 2012, really helped me get back into the band after the disappointment of Living Things. I felt like the statement the band was making here was more interesting and the “heavier” approach but with more punk inspiration instead of their classic nu-metal sound was a cool idea. I think the instrumentation, especially from Rob, is great and some of the strongest the band has ever put to wax. Chester and Mike also deliver some great moments throughout too and, while this is the only LP album where I didn’t have that one song that blew me away immediately, I enjoyed how consistent it felt to me overall.

    10 years later, I probably can only go back to 5 of the songs but I do have a lot of nostalgia for this period. It was the first time I followed an album cycle with the community here at 16 and the hype was strong. GATS was such a ballsy opening single and my friend describing it to me felt like a joke. A 5-minute heavy guitar song with fucking rap legend Rakim?! Please…

    I really enjoy the somberish tones of Final Masquerade and Until It’s Gone, giving the album some pop flourish. And I really love the rap-rock cuts of All For Nothing and Wastelands. Fun braggadocio verses and some of the catchier choruses to me. KTTK is a slightly extended version of Victimized with a weaker rap verse but it’s still a fun track. ALITS is a “eh” closer but the spoken word bridge from Mike is notable imo. And Chester on War is definitely something too :lol: I think the lyrics are generally fine for the “in your face” approach they were going for. So I don’t really mind Mike taking a more “battle rap” style to this one.

    Overall, it’s definitely fallen to the wayside as one of LP’s less listenable projects for me in the last decade, but it does hold a special place in my heart and there are still a handful of tracks i will gladly shuffle through. I do agree that the choruses here are pretty underwhelming.
     
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