Let's Review - Part 1 - Hybrid Theory

Discussion in 'Linkin Park Chat' started by Qwerty19, Nov 22, 2024.

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What are the top 3 qualities of HT?

  1. Accessibility (Catchy, easy to get into, ...)

    6 vote(s)
    40.0%
  2. Consistency (All killer / No Filler)

    5 vote(s)
    33.3%
  3. Creativity (Breaks convention)

    4 vote(s)
    26.7%
  4. Diversity (Offers a lot of variety)

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  5. Instrumentation (Analog or Digital)

    3 vote(s)
    20.0%
  6. Live Performances (Album translates well in a live settings)

    5 vote(s)
    33.3%
  7. Lyrics

    1 vote(s)
    6.7%
  8. Songwriting (Melodies, Song Structures, Layering, ...)

    8 vote(s)
    53.3%
  9. Production / Mixing

    5 vote(s)
    33.3%
  10. Vocal Performance

    6 vote(s)
    40.0%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. #1
    Qwerty19

    Qwerty19 LPA Super Member LPA Super Member

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    The idea of this thread is to give, for an LP record, what we believe to be its 3 main qualities, and also its main fault. I thought the ratio 3/1 would be a good way to keep the tone of the thread positive :)

    We could iterate over each record, one at a time, and hopefully, during that iteration, people would comment about that record. After each iteration, I could update the initial post with an “Aggregate”, containing the qualities that got the most “votes".

    In order for this to work, we should use the same convention. This is obviously arbitrary, but I propose to use the 12 categories below. The objective here is to have a common metric. I hope it will make sense ^^
    • Accessibility
    • Catchiness
    • Cohesiveness
    • Consistency
    • Creativity
    • Diversity
    • Instrumentation (Analog and/or Digital)
    • Live Performance (= the record translates well in a live setting)
    • Lyrics
    • Production / Mixing
    • Songwriting (Melodies, Structure, Layering, etc.)
    • Vocal Performance
    If this sounds like a fun idea to you guys, I’d say we start with Hybrid Theory (until next Friday?) and go all the way up to From Zero. That'd give 7 weeks of retrospective before starting the debate on From Zero.

    When you post your thoughts, don't hesitate to elaborate on why you landed on the categories you picked for a specific record. I think it could be an interesting way to reflect on LP discography. But let's see!
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2024
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  2. #2
    Qwerty19

    Qwerty19 LPA Super Member LPA Super Member

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    :foreveralone:

    Okay, sorry for the exceptional double-post. I'll give this one last shot, and otherwise let's forget it.

    Added a poll to the thread, for ease of use. HT only. We'll see if there is any point to continue with the others. My input below.
    -----------------------------------
    HT - Top 3 Qualities
    1. Accessibility - How many people got into music / rock / metal thanks to this album is a testament to it
    2. Vocal Performance - Introduction of Chester Bennington to the masses, and what an introduction
    3. Consistency - This album is the definition of no filler to me. That includes Runaway too.
    HT - Main Issue
    1. Lyrics - If I had to pick one thing, then sure. Lyrics like on the chorus of Runaway definitely have an immature edge to them
     
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  3. #3
    Christøffer

    Christøffer The Cure for Mr. Hahn's Itch LPA Contributor

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    I meant to respond but things got busy. Please forgive me Qwerty.

    To me, the defining aspects of Hybrid Theory are:
    1. Accessibility - While HT puts together a lot of elements of 90s/more underground hip-hop, some electronic genres, as well as nu metal and 2000s rock, it still packages this in a digestible format with pop ideas, structures, and conventions to make it accessible and appealing. It lives up to the album name.
    2. Creativity - Maybe a questionable pick to some, but if you consider it not just from the standpoint of whether they're writing pop structures or not, you can see this. Jungle breaks baked into Papercut, Moog samples from the Dust Brothers forming the backbone of With You, Joe's sample bank for his scratches (his taste for the turntablism of early pioneer DJs is seen through that), Rob's really underrated drumming with a lot of flavor on the snare and hi-hat that was lost on later albums (it really speaks to his influence from 80s rock drumming at points), even some Chester showcase of his influences. They pulled from a ton of different places to put together the abum.
    3. Production/Mixing - With maybe the exception of One Step Closer to me because of a couple of choices, I think all the songs on the album are exceptionally well-produced and mixed. The production choices all blend together perfectly, and the mixing really lets all the different subtle nuggets of influences throughout have a spot to shine through. The tracks really feel like layered mixes of different sounds from different styles and places melded into one song.
    I would probably also say lyrics are the main issue, but I don't think it's as bad of a problem as people go on about. To me the biggest offenders there are Runaway, By Myself, and A Place for My Head. The rest aren't so bad, even if there's a slight air of melodrama. Honestly wouldn't even put OSC in the worst group for lyrics because they come off as purposefully overblown to me.
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2024
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  4. #4
    aKaRiot

    aKaRiot LP Fanboy

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    To me it's creativity, COnsistency, and the Lyrics. Those are what kept me coming back. Still an easy listen front to back with lyrics I can still relate to
     
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  5. #5
    Sasuke

    Sasuke Modern Prog enjoyer LPA Super Member

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    Pros:

    Production: The guitar tones are incredibly crisp, even compared to most releases today. The drums sound amazing as well, with the snare standing out in particular.
    Consistency: Almost every song had the potential to be a single.
    Accessibility: The songs are easy to get into and have a broad appeal, making the album enjoyable for a wide range of listeners.

    Cons:

    Overplay: This is more of a personal thing. I’ve listened to this album so many times (and I mean many times; I listened to both HT and Meteora pretty much exclusively for years) that I’ve grown tired of most songs. I still like them, but they rarely excite me anymore.
    Dated Sound: This might be a hot take, but everything about the album feels distinctly 2000s to me. A truly great album should feel timeless, like ATS.
    Songwriting: Many tracks lack dynamic range. The choruses often feel copy-pasted, with little variation, and the songs rarely feature strong build-ups to elevate their impact.
     
  6. #6
    Christøffer

    Christøffer The Cure for Mr. Hahn's Itch LPA Contributor

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    I would say yes, but also no.

    I think Hybrid Theory captures a very specific sound of hip-hop and came at a particular time for sampling and digital audio technology that creates a lot of this "dated" sound. In addition, of course, to the nu metal influences of the time. I would agree on some of the nu metal parts (I will reiterate that I think "By Myself" gets this the worst), but I think the electronic and hip-hop parts are really just homages and even time capsules of parts of those genres in the late 90s. In a technical sense, I guess that makes it "dated," but outside of some of the nu metal and 90s/00s rock archetypes and cliches, I really like that aspect of it, and it shows how ingrained they were in multiple music movements.

    I'm also just a big fan of the way things sound using those particular technologies of the era, so it might just be my overwhelming bias toward that. :lol:
     
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  7. #7
    Qwerty19

    Qwerty19 LPA Super Member LPA Super Member

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    That's more or less also how I look at it.

    HT definitely sent me back in time, but I like that time capsule effect. It captures a lot of the atmosphere and sounds I love about the 90's hip-hop, electronic, and grunge movements. What makes the difference between "aged like wine" and "aged like milk" for me is how crisp the mix/production is.

    Despite being more recent, Meteora is a record that sounds more dated (in a less good way) to me, because of its stronger 2000's nu-metal polishing. A fair deal of the mix intricacies found on HT got lost on Meteora, unfortunately.
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2024
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  8. #8
    Xerø 21

    Xerø 21 I was Ree's 100th follower on Twitter.

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    Just found these threads, I like the idea.

    I voted for creativity, production, and vocal performance. The album really is a specific mix of hip-hop, metal, and pop that no one else could quite match. I think that speaks to both the creativity and the production, Hybrid Theory guitars are just so iconic sounding. A very digital electric sound, if that makes sense.

    And of course, the vocals. Mike and Chester trading off never sounded better than this imo.
     
  9. #9
    Deliveranze

    Deliveranze Well-Known Member

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    I voted for Consistency, Songwriting, and Live Performances. This album is an amalgamation of nailing a sound they were playing around with for years and executing it in a way that no nu metal band could replicate. Every track is full of pop sensibility with 90s underground hip hop, grunge, metal and electronica all wrapped into an infectious package. Chester’s rapped vocals mixed with the scattering delivery of Mike on Papercut, the traded back and forth vocals on Forgotten mixed with Mike’s metaphorical/HT EP-esque rap verses, the iconic In The End, the grungy chorus of By Myself, etc. There is a lot to appreciate about how far the band came from the Xero days and making this sound work.

    I don’t know if the lyrics are the weakest because I do think they were able to garner so much of a following because of the accessibility their lyrics had (same with Meteora). I don’t think Mike doing A Tribe Called Quest-type rapping or the battle braggadocio of Xero would have translated well to the album. Ironically, it ended up giving Mike a distinct style to his rapping that is recognizable to him. And they do have moments of those earlier lyrical presentations like on Forgotten or even underrated lines like “Graffiti decorations under a sky of dust.” One thing Hybrid Theory has over Meteora is the usage of metaphors to describe and compare feelings like time being used on In The End and the sun/moon being used on A Place For My Head. I also appreciate the writing style of By Myself given the constant questioning from Mike’s verses. It’s interesting compared to his usual approach to lyrics.

    I think my biggest issue with Hybrid Theory tbh is Production. I do find it to have a lot of dated elements compared to Meteora especially in the hip hop aspect (though some posters have said it’s a time capsule to a specific era of late 90s hip hop and that I can definitely see/appreciate). However, I feel the hip hop elements of Meteora or more immersive and the sampling is more creative where Hybrid Theory’s more rock/metal influence feel at the forefront in comparison to me. For better or worse, the whole album does sound 2000, and that for me, does it make it less appealing compared to its successors.
     
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  10. #10
    Christøffer

    Christøffer The Cure for Mr. Hahn's Itch LPA Contributor

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    That's crazy, because I actually feel the exact opposite of this. :lol:

    For me, I feel like Hybrid Theory channels a lot of those more analog/turntablism/sampling ideas of late 90s hip-hop, which lend it authenticity and drive it to be more of a fusion. On the other hand, to me Meteora sounds way more "metal with hip-hop sprinkles" overall. Just looking at Joe's parts between the two albums, there's a very stark contrast.
     
  11. #11
    Deliveranze

    Deliveranze Well-Known Member

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    That is interesting to hear. Maybe on one hand, it helps that Nobody’s Listening is on Meteora’s tracklist to help that vibe be more apparent. And while a part of me wishes the High Voltage remix made it to HT, it’s probably best it didn’t so NL doesn’t sound like the equivalent.

    I also feel like the instrumentals that Mike is rapping over on Meteora have a bounce to them that if you isolate the guitars, make them sound more like conventional hip hop beats. Even a lot of the demos we got from Meteora have more layered electronica/hip hop instrumentals before guitars were added (And on Collision Course, when Jay-Z is rapping over LP instrumentals, it works better on the Meteora instrumentals imo). But the car burnout sample on LFY, the Faint loop sample, the 6/8 beat on From The Inside, just feel more “modern” in sound compared to the beat of, for example, Forgotten which does have a minimal late 90s backpack rap feel. Also because scratching definitely wasn’t as much of a staple in mainstream hip hop by 2003. So I guess I’m more drawn to the isolated elements of Meteora (samples, synths) than HT’s.

    Though Reanimation definitely hammered a lot of the hip hop aspects of HT to the forefront too.
     
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  12. #12
    Qwerty19

    Qwerty19 LPA Super Member LPA Super Member

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    I initially rushed my input for this one, as I was doubtful the idea would take up.

    Time to revisit and give this album the attention it deserves.

    ----------------

    Top 3 Qualities
    • Accessibility : “Hybrid Theory,” the name couldn’t have been better. This album has been one of the biggest musical portals of the 21st century, bringing millions of music listeners into the hard rock and metal worlds. For many, it also served as a first step into more hip-hop or electronic horizons. The record achieved that milestone through an ingenious mix of killer hooks, punchy choruses, pop sensibilities, iconic guitar riffs and electronic motives, and via the alchemy between an iconic voice, at the crossroads between destructive rasp and angelic sensibility, and a then-more-metaphorical MC. Navigating from one catchy banger to the next, this album is as immediately impactful and accessible as Linkin Park gets.
    • Vocal Performance : It can’t be emphasized enough how absolutely phenomenal of an introduction this record was in terms of presenting Chester Bennington to the masses. Guttural choruses like on “Points of Authority” or “Crawling” radiate anger, while performances like on “Forgotten” or “By Myself” choruses showcase more grunge influences. Then you have more fragile, emotional deliveries like on “Crawling” verses, berserk moments like in the bridges of “One Step Closer” or “A Place for My Head,” and harmonized moments like at the end of “Papercut”. Truly, Hybrid Theory plays like a collection of legendary performances, and while I haven’t mentioned Mike yet, his flows and deliveries during the HT days also had an extra touch of technicality later lost on Meteora – although this is mostly heard on the songs in their demo form.
    • Production / Mixing : While it certainly does sound like a 2000 record, Hybrid Theory has a dynamic, crisp quality to it, making every element in the mix shine, with the multiple influences put into this body of work combining seamlessly. On “Papercut,” the groovy, distorted, palm-muted guitar riffs intertwine with the ghostly atmosphere, Aphex-Twin glitches, and jungle drumming elements to create a haunting, threatening, uplifting track. On “With You,” the eerie electronics and drum beats make for a lovely contrast to the absolutely nasty tone of the pre-chorus guitars. On “Points of Authority,” the chopped-up riff, electronic loop , drums, and almost beat-boxy feel give birth to one of the most bouncy moments in Linkin Park's discography. On “Forgotten,” the guitar, bass, reverb, and drums again complement each other in a truly satisfying musical landscape, not to mention the adrenaline-packed harmonies in the bridge. From start to finish, the album is a masterpiece of sound crafting, sound engineering, and mixing, giving room to breathe to every single detail
    Top Issue
    • Diversity : I initially had lyrics as the weak point, but I’m backtracking on that. I feel that, beside a few exceptions like the chorus of “Runaway,” they do their job absolutely fine, expressing angst in a way that millions of people could relate to, without coming across as overly immature, like some of “Meteora” did. I’ll thus choose diversity, although, really, it is a bit of a non-issue. I think the record establishes a very clear aesthetic, which I consider a strength, but maybe misses a bit of the diversity and genre-shifts that have come to characterize later releases of the band. A lot of the songs here follow a formula template, especially when it comes to the big raspy choruses backed up by power chords. Then again, it is far from being a large issue, as I believe the songs on this album are different enough from each other to all bring something valuable to the table.
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2025
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