Kerrang! Magazine Interview with Linkin Park

Discussion in 'News' started by Joe, Mar 1, 2017.

  1. #41
    Elaine

    Elaine The One They Call Elaine. LPA VIP

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2012
    Messages:
    1,919
    Likes Received:
    210



    I wholeheartedly encourage you to look at what was considered "Pop" at the time that In The End came out.

    Pop is an evolving definition of whatever the musical zeitgeist is at the time. It's a category, not a genre.
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2017
  2. #42
    Sonic

    Sonic Searching for the last Chaos Emerald... LPA Super Member

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2004
    Messages:
    4,483
    Likes Received:
    543



    I can't tell f your post means good or bad. I'm not familiar with The Killers, so I can't judge.
     
    TobyReen likes this.
  3. #43
    Tony Fields

    Tony Fields I believe in Pictureboard

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2017
    Messages:
    111
    Likes Received:
    74



    Genre is dead
     
  4. #44
    Tony Fields

    Tony Fields I believe in Pictureboard

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2017
    Messages:
    111
    Likes Received:
    74



    Worth to check out. They're hard to be considered 'rock', but they have their distinctive style.

    Also, their Christmas singles - hilarious stuff :D
     
  5. #45
    minuteforce

    minuteforce Danny's not here, Mrs. Torrance. LPA Team

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2004
    Messages:
    12,705
    Likes Received:
    1,593



    :huh: Stylistically and sonically, yeah, they're different but they're absolutely both pop. Linkin Park wouldn't have been nearly as accessible as they were in 2000 without the strong presence of conventional pop elements in their music. But I'm not surprised that nu-metal fans Linkin Park fans are so insecure over this, TBH
     
    Gibs and Modern Guitar God like this.
  6. #46
    Elaine

    Elaine The One They Call Elaine. LPA VIP

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2012
    Messages:
    1,919
    Likes Received:
    210



    I think the problem is that a lot of them are coming from the perspective of newer fans. They don't have the cultural context that surrounded the nu-metal style that existed in the 00's that people like us do.

    I legitimately can't imagine what it'd be like stumbling onto Hybrid Theory if I'd never heard it before and all I listened to was the current pop sphere. Hell, even the pop sphere of the past half decade. In that sense it'd be very easy to deny HT/Meteora's popiness.
     
    RapidGunner and TobyReen like this.
  7. #47
    Sonic

    Sonic Searching for the last Chaos Emerald... LPA Super Member

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2004
    Messages:
    4,483
    Likes Received:
    543



    Isn't it ironic how so many people want the band to go back to their original sound because Heavy is "pop shit" when they love songs like In the End and Numb?

    lol.
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2017
  8. #48
    minuteforce

    minuteforce Danny's not here, Mrs. Torrance. LPA Team

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2004
    Messages:
    12,705
    Likes Received:
    1,593



    Alright, so just to touch on this some, nu-metal was huge back in the late 90s and the early 2000s. On a mainstream level. Not dissimilar to how dubstep was big in the late 2000s - in fact, many would tell you dubstep was to dance music what nu-metal was to rock, to make it a bit clearer. It was novel, it was divisive, and it was immediate (like dubstep) and that lead the style to a level of success which put it all over radio and TV. I myself heard "In The End" on every station a kid my age could listen to, basically within 15 minutes of tuning in, and the music video was reliably shown on music video programs whenever I watched them. This was, incidentally, how I got into Linkin Park.

    "Hybrid Theory" was the best-selling album of 2001. It outsold boy bands, Britney Spears, 90s hip-hop acts - everyone. For a time, incorporating hard rock elements was the thing to do, but it was definitely not the first time distorted guitars made it big in pop music, 'cause that had been happening on and off for decades already.

    Nu-metal was a fading trend in pop by the early 2000s, around when "Meteora" was released. To begin with, LP had already been late to the game but they still got 2 albums in and a massive amount of shows supporting both releases. Anyway, most acts went on to become more conventional hard rock acts, if they remained active at all. Instead of doing this, LP veered wildly all over the place. They still haven't stopped.
     
  9. #49
    Michele

    Michele Praise Brad Delson, our Lord and Savior. LPA Addict

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2014
    Messages:
    16,701
    Likes Received:
    5,565



    doesnt "pop" itself dont just mean "popular" ? Because this would make most of LP songs to Pop SOngs, which is truw in my opinion. SInce the beginning they made music for the masses. Not for a little group of people.
     
  10. #50
    minuteforce

    minuteforce Danny's not here, Mrs. Torrance. LPA Team

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2004
    Messages:
    12,705
    Likes Received:
    1,593



    This is true, but some would also argue that "pop" is a style in itself, and, as such, there are things that all successfully-made pop songs have in common, like simple progressions, clean production, accessible lyrics and, most importantly, catchy hooks.

    Some people misremember early Linkin Park releases as sounding dark and edgy, but they were described as "the Backstreet Boys of rock" for a reason, and that was because, generally, their sound was significantly more accessible than that of their contemporaries. It was certainly pretty gritty if you compared it to the (actual) bubblegum pop and boy bands which the band crafted their sound in response to.
     
    RapidGunner, TobyReen and Abel like this.
  11. #51
    Michele

    Michele Praise Brad Delson, our Lord and Savior. LPA Addict

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2014
    Messages:
    16,701
    Likes Received:
    5,565



    Yeah, i agree with you there.
     
  12. #52
    zayl

    zayl Friendly neighbor revenge seeking vigilante

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2010
    Messages:
    102
    Likes Received:
    38



    Glad to hear I'm nu-metal fan - never considered myself as one but thanks, It's just so funny how you can be described as one only because you don't like the new song of LP (I am not talking about Heavy, I am talking about every post-2007 LP song which one could not like).

    I am aware of the daub level of two first LP records. I think our considerations are different because I try to approach ITE on the basis of actual song and @minuteforce is talking about it reception during the time of it's release. I understand that, still I try to receive as a song which I would listen for the first time today - trying to apply a carte blanche approach.

    If pop means popular what genre would Heavy be if it would have 100 vieviengs instead of few milions?
    Pop is a genre imo, there are many song which aren't popular still there's no better description than a pop song
     
    minuteforce likes this.
  13. #53
    minuteforce

    minuteforce Danny's not here, Mrs. Torrance. LPA Team

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2004
    Messages:
    12,705
    Likes Received:
    1,593



    Which is what I touched on in my last post. :) Pop is a set of conventions too, which make up a genre, and, without those conventions and that specific point in time, LP's albums would not have had that extreme success. It's the kind of thing where you know it when you hear it.

    You can regard "In The End" as a song wherein nu-metal aesthetics and pop elements intertwine effortlessly. Pop music was and always has been varied, stylistically (in 2002, "In The End" peaked at #2 on the Hot 100 ... under a J-Lo song) and has come pretty far since the early 00s. Trap and future bass are among the most dominant influences heard in mainstream pop today, and you can hear traces in "Heavy".

    Also,
    I guess I misspoke there. I edited my post to fix this. ;)
     
  14. #54
    Elaine

    Elaine The One They Call Elaine. LPA VIP

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2012
    Messages:
    1,919
    Likes Received:
    210



    It would still be pop because it was drawing from the conventions of what was popular at the time.

    A song doesn't have to be popular to be pop, but what is popular is what helps define "Pop" as a sound. If a song falls within those conventions it would still be considered pop. Since the generic, non-genre specific conventions that lead to "Pop" being popular (catchy melodies, earworm lyrics, simplistic progressions and a short format so radio broadcasters can fit their airplay around it, like what Minuteforce said above) can be applied to pretty much every genre I wouldn't personally class "Pop" as a genre in and of itself.

    A more interesting question would be: If "Heavy" came out sounding like it did now, but ten years ago, would it still be derided as "Pop"?

    Take a shot every time you read the word "Genre".
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2017
  15. #55
    Meteorain

    Meteorain Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2017
    Messages:
    209
    Likes Received:
    194



    Wouldn't blame anybody for not believing me on this - it's "yeah right" worthy for sure - but that "In the End is not pop" comment wasn't made by me. If anyone's noticed, I tend to write lengthier posts (which I admit isn't always great, but it's a habit of mine). It was from a friend who was over and using my laptop, who's into LP but not on the level I am, and has very much a "fuck it I'm gonna post and pretend I'm you and I don't care" (as I stay logged in and had this window open).

    However, I don't totally disagree with her. Here's my take on it :

    I get what you're all saying, and it makes sense to me, but generally speaking I disagree that a song having pop elements to it just makes it pop, period, no two ways about it. If that were the case, I'd be hard pressed to find any song in the world that wasn't pop, and yes that's said with hyperbole, but actually not a lot of it. What out there doesn't have pop elements (and in this scenario that's weird to me, makes it just plain pop) that isn't like... screaming death metal with lyrics so throaty that they're borderline inaudible half the time? If you can say In the End has pop elements, the same can be said for so many songs from so many other genres, including hip hop, R&B, country, etc. If that's the case, why are we even still continuing to try to categorize music at all?

    I also can't get on board with the idea that a song is pop if it's popular. That's again too black and white for me to agree with. Or the idea that the only way to have a song be popular is if it's pop. This is beginning to sound like some kind of 'chicken before the egg' dilemma, suggesting a song isn't popular if it's not pop, but it's not pop if it's not popular.

    "They were called the Backstreet Boys of rock for a reason"... by who? I can't think of any name, critic/review, publication etc that you could answer that with that would make me say "Oh, well, ok then." It's probably somebody I'd just disagree with. I'd also say Meteora had a bit of a "lighter" (for lack of a better term) feel to it than Hybrid Theory, overall, so I'm not just trying to tell you oh their sound just radically changed starting with Minutes to Midnight.

    I'm not saying this already has been directed at me, but IF it happens that I get lumped in with those not wishing to see "nu-metal" die, or calling Heavy "pop shit", or insecure about comparing "my beloved nu-metal of old" to "the pop of today", or anything along those lines... I honestly think I'd just laugh, rather than take offense. I've embraced, defended to naysayers and tried to explain (like to friends who got on their case for changing their sound) and I was the one who even said I don't think Linkin Park has ever made a bad song, something I bet just about everybody would disagree with me on. This despite them being just about all over the board with their sound, across what will now be 7 studio albums, not to mention all the side projects, underground albums, etc. I also was quick to decide I was just fine with Heavy - not my favourite ever, but I like it. I'm also not trying to hold In the End up on a crazy pedestal, but I will say that I don't think Heavy and In the End should really be compared beyond them both being Linkin Park songs with pop elements. Past that, I think they're pretty different.

    In the End has pop elements, sure, but "extremely poppy"? Not in my eyes, not in the way I would see pop if somebody were to ask "Hey, if you had to categorize songs...". I pose that scenario because, as I've said before, I'm not big on the idea of labels or genres in general. I don't see music that way or try to stick a tag on it or put it in any box. Rap/rock or alternative would come to mind first, again, if I had to choose. I'm comfortable disagreeing with even the "pure pop" comment from Chester, so you can be sure I'm comfortable disagreeing with just about anybody. I've never minded even the idea of being the only one to think something, and I never will. At least I can agree with the band on a lot of other things.

    For one : Genre is, or should be, dead.
     
    TobyReen, minuteforce and zayl like this.
  16. #56
    Elaine

    Elaine The One They Call Elaine. LPA VIP

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2012
    Messages:
    1,919
    Likes Received:
    210



    You're ignoring the point about contextuality. What is and isn't popular changes over time, so what people draw influence from changes as well. You don't see nearly as many rock ballads now as you did 10 years ago, and those you do hear don't really chart.

    Pop is all about context. "Every song is pop" blows what people are saying straight into hyperbole territory and demonstrates a miscommunication or a lack of understanding of what it is that we're (Or, well, I'm) actually saying here.

    This is an oversimplification of what was previously said, so it's no wonder that you see it as black and white. I encourage you to try and parse the prior posts because I'm not going to write another wall of text here when I can just point to those as a direct response again. This is more just a "Yeah, I understand you, but you misread our points, please go back and read them again" thing.
     
    Meteorain likes this.
  17. #57
    Meteorain

    Meteorain Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2017
    Messages:
    209
    Likes Received:
    194



    Don't worry, that didn't come across badly at all. I was around, yes. I was actually in high school. Saying that now makes me feel old... but... yeah. I definitely remember how big it was and how it was considered a game-changer. Our yearbook that year had it listed at #1 or #2 (I forget, I should look) for "Songs of the year" and this was when a lot of people in school were still not really aware of the band, and I was one of very few... walking to school with Hybrid Theory jamming in my discman god damnit I'm old...

    I agree with you that it had similarites to a lot of what was on the radio, with that grittier edge you mentioned. But it was played by some stations (at least where I live - one station host admitted as such) that wouldn't otherwise have played it, but latched onto it and wanted to play it because of the resounding success. I remember him literally saying "Hey, we want in on this cash cow, too, and we don't feel bad about it". It was pretty funny. I wouldn't be surprised if other stations did the same and just didn't admit to it that bluntly.

    Our resident rock station would play the absolute crap out of it though, and I don't remember a single person faulting LP for the song being so attractive to radio, being mainstream, calling it pop, nor saying that because of all the radio play that it was now considered pop.

    Just wanted to point out I agreed with a lot of what you said here, too. I read this just now, only after saying some of the other things I said.
     
  18. #58
    Elaine

    Elaine The One They Call Elaine. LPA VIP

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2012
    Messages:
    1,919
    Likes Received:
    210



    Ah, I deleted that post because I felt it was a little inflammatory, and rewrote a better one above, but you saw it so I'll treat it as still in play anyway. Don't want to start any fights so I figured I'd play it safe :)
     
  19. #59
    minuteforce

    minuteforce Danny's not here, Mrs. Torrance. LPA Team

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2004
    Messages:
    12,705
    Likes Received:
    1,593



    Funnily enough, the other week, I saw this video where this guy from some band says it ...
     
  20. #60
    Decay

    Decay Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2011
    Messages:
    1,886
    Likes Received:
    66



    *a trap
     
    Sasuke likes this.

Share This Page