Human immortality could be possible by 2045

Discussion in 'Serious Chat' started by Agent, Aug 5, 2012.

  1. #1
    Agent

    Agent Formerly known as Agent Sideburns LPA Über VIP

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    [​IMG]

    [video=youtube;01hbkh4hXEk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01hbkh4hXEk&feature=player_embedded[/video]

    [video=youtube;9wEZsSIpypg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wEZsSIpypg&feature=player_embedded[/video]

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/yourcommunit...-possible-by-2045-say-russian-scientists.html

    If Dmitry Itskov's 2045 initiative plays out as planned, humans will have the option of living forever with the help of machines in only 33 years.

    It may sound ridiculous, but the 31-year-old Russian mogul is dead serious about neuroscience, android robotics, and cybernetic immortality.

    He has already pulled together a team of leading Russian scientists intent on creating fully functional holographic human avatars that house artificial brains which contain a person's complete consciousness - in other words, a humanoid robot.

    Together, they've laid out an ambitious course of action that would see the team transplant a human brain into an artificial body (or 'avatar') in as little as seven years time.

    Now, Itskov is asking the world's richest people for help in financing the project.

    In exchange, he's offered to coordinate their own personal immortality projects for free.

    "I urge you to take note of the vital importance of funding scientific development in the field of cybernetic immortality and the artificial body," he writes in an open letter to members of the Forbes World's Billionaires List.

    "Such research has the potential to free you, as well as the majority of all people on our planet, from disease, old age and even death."

    Itskov goes on to offer skeptics a meeting with "a team of the world's leading scientists working in this field " to prove the viability of the concept of cybernetic immortality.

    And while many are skeptical that such a plan could ever come to fruition, Popular
    Science Magazine points that phase one -- creating a robot controlled by a human brain -- is already well within reach.

    "DARPA is already working on it via a program called "Avatar" (which, incidentally, is also the name of Itskov's project) through which the Pentagon hopes to create a brain-machine interface that will allow soldiers to control bipedal human surrogate machines remotely with their minds," writes PopSci's Clay Dillow.

    "And of course there are all the ongoing medical prosthesis projects that have shown that the human nervous system can interface with prosthetic enhancements, manipulating them via thought. Itskov draws a clear arc from what we have now to the consciousness-containing holograms that he envisions. All we have to do is attack the technological obstacles in between, one at a time, until we get there."

    Discovery's Alyssa Danigelis takes an opposing stance to the very idea.

    "There's a world of difference between pursuing a brain-controlled exoskeleton to help paraplegics regain control and wanting to essentially upload a human brain into an artificial body," she writes.

    "I read a sci-fi novel involving disembodied live brains once. It didn't turn out well"

    http://2045.com/
    http://gf2045.com
     
  2. #2
    lime treacle

    lime treacle You are not alone Über Member

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    So what, we'll have ghosts walking around?

    Cool. :awesome:
     
  3. #3
    SuperDude526

    SuperDude526 Well-Known Member

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    But who wants to live forever?
     
  4. #4
    Qwerty19

    Qwerty19 Well-Known Member

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    This is...well, it sounds a lot like a sci-fi scenario, but eventually, I've always been sure human immortality would be possible one day. Maybe in 2045, maybe in 2145, maybe later, I don't know, but if you look at the story of technologic evolution, it's already insane to see what we're able to do now, in 2012. And the technologies have been evolving faster and faster. Who in 1548 would have guess that human would be one day able to talk to other humans living at the opposite of the planet, by simply using a keyboard? Who would have guess that we would be able to read books, listen to music, contact people, and so one, by simply using such small thing as an IPhone? So yeah, I really thing crazy things like immortality will be possible one day or another.

    Now, to what would lead this? Regarding the ethical field, immortality is scary. Imagine the most rich people on the planet living forever and reinforcing their power and control on the society. If eventually, immortality becomes more accessible, with more people being able to afford it, imagine the population growth, and all the economic/environmental/employment/society problems it would cause. Imagine saying hello to the grandchildren of your grandchildren. That shit is insane.
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2012
  5. #5
    Ignite

    Ignite Well-Known Member

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    Me! I want to know how far the technology will advance or the change in lifestyle of the human race in the future, or the possibility of life outside of Earth and space travel. Just the plain thought of so many revelations and discoveries to be made waaaaayyy after I die scares me more than the concept of immortality, tbh. The normal life cycle of a human, as a kid --> teenager --> school --> work ---> have a family --> grow old --> death: we're already familiar with this and I want to escape this cycle so I could learn so much more. Like QWERTY said, centuries ago who would have thought we'd have this kind of lifestyle? We can only learn so much in this short life and all those 'Avatar's and 'Fifth Element's will remain as nothing but fantasy storytelling.
     
  6. #6
    Nish

    Nish Well-Known Member

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    Arthur C Clarke anyone?
     
  7. #7
    Agent

    Agent Formerly known as Agent Sideburns LPA Über VIP

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    I know it sounds pretty fucking ridiculous at this point. But I thought it's interesting and ambitious nonetheless. The pace at which technology is advancing, anything is possible tbh.
     
  8. #8
    Wizardofozil

    Wizardofozil Well-Known Member

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    i.robot anyone?
     
  9. #9
    Jack_Farrell

    Jack_Farrell KTTK is Chester suicide-diving off a cliff naked

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    Yeah, fuck hologram shit. The only true immortality is the physical one and even that one will escape us, because this galaxy will die, as will everything else, even the universe. At most they can give us 100 more years, but this is worthless. Plus, being a hologram, you can't do shit. Just exist until you're shut off. Fuck that.
     
  10. #10
    Erica

    Erica Meh LPA Über VIP

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    It would be cool. Just to see how the world would end and all that but you would have to rid almost every human of their ability to pro create. Otherwise the population problem would spiral out of control so fast it would make your head spin.
     
  11. #11
    SuperDude526

    SuperDude526 Well-Known Member

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    This is precisely why I think trying for it is wrong.
     
  12. #12
    lime treacle

    lime treacle You are not alone Über Member

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    I personally want to experience the 22nd century.

    It could then be possible for me to say I've lived in three centuries.

    Although, if I'd use this technology, I'd obviously already be dead. So there's that.
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2012
  13. #13
    PandasFTW

    PandasFTW Well-Known Member

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    I'm sure, if we could live forever, everyone would commit suicide one day, cause their lives are sooo boring. Our mortality is the only thing that makes live so beautiful. If you would live forever, you could do all the cool, rare things over and over again and it wouldn't be important anymore. Even if they would offer me immortality for free, i would just say: "My mercy(?), you're all freaks."
     
  14. #14
    travz21

    travz21 Muscle Museum LPA Super Member

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    This is creepy. Avatar B sounds like the only option where you'd be "living". Avatar C is what I picture people using when they can't let go of someone, so they create copies of him/her to play with.
     
  15. #15
    Calvin

    Calvin The rhythm projects 'round the next sound... LPA VIP

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    I think a law against procreation could work against the population growth and besides, if we master space travel then the population can be distributed to other planets.
     
  16. #16
    Filip

    Filip god break down the door LPA Contributor

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    Well, with this medicine, I'd say 103 years is possible...

    I'd get bored if I lived forever... :/
     
  17. #17
    RazorEye

    RazorEye The light on the horizon...

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    I think he has just changed what it means to be human...
     
  18. #18
    hawk

    hawk because the internet LPA Super VIP

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    Terrible idea in general.
     
  19. #19
    Theazninvasion68

    Theazninvasion68 It's like blood to a vampire, our tragic desire. LPA Super VIP

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    Imo, living forever fundamentally challenges our current view of existence. But, there are a lot of problems:


    There is also the problem of memory. Your first memories hold well because they're the basis of many other memories to come. Novel memories. You can remember a lot of things younger because of your body's neuroplasticity. At a certain point, it can no longer stretch or adapt as well. (If you're confused here, Akin this to "You can't teach an old dog new tricks."). Neuroplasticity is reduced by age and use. So, for example, if you think your 1-30 was fast, and 31 to 90 was faster, boy, wait until you're 150-230. I do not see any "near-future" solutions to this. The end of neuroplasticity is basically your brain telling you its reaching the limits of its age, and capabilities. To perserve your neuroplasticity from a bioengineering level, it would require you fundamentally alter and replace the current method memory via your brain. Memory is, essentially as far as we know, Neuron A being in closer-sync with Neuron B, and With Neuron C, etc etc. Neurons are "plastic" in that, when you're young, they easily grow and reach out, and can fill in for other parts of the brain if something goes wrong. This accounts partially for why children learn so quickly comparatively to adults 45+. Memory isn't a great thing to rely on for actually remembering things. Really, our memories, comparative to other methods of storing information, is rather poor and chaotic. The only thing that makes human memory so great is how intuitively we use it. If we cannot solve this problem of memory, we cannot be transferred to avatars in any meaningful way. Life after 150+ or even 200+ years would be blurry. It'd be extraordinary hard to remember days. Weeks would be blurry. If you don't believe me, you should call up your grandparents and ask them what they did 3 months ago, and then ask a child or teenager what they did 3 months ago. The amount of detail is what you'd be comparing, and I'm rather certain that most teenagers or children would recall more detail than any grandparent would of what they did/happened 3 months ago.

    There is also the problem of Death. We celebrate life because we know how valuable it is. We only have so much of time available to us. This is why many wise-phrases urge us to become a thinker, to better use our time wisely. We venture out into this world to explore and conquer its challenges. Imo, this is what is necessary for spiritual enlightenment, as claimed in the video. You risk all your fears, ego, pride and whathaveyou, out to cast them out. When you've let go of what you're afraid, scared, or worried of, you are no longer held down by them: Hence, enlightenment. The problem of living forever is that one does not actually need to pursuit these because you don't have to be afraid. You can run your ego and pride. Because you're immortal. Its that simple. You don't need to overcome your anxiety, because you'll live forever. Yes, it gives you an infinite amount of time, but where is the dedication in that? The absence of dying is quite possibly the most unhuman thing to do, imo, because you can lose the appreciation for human life, or life itself. You could lose the empathic wiring your brain has because you know any suffering you cause or caused to you is forever only temporary.

    Another problem is Body Computer Interfaces. Its still in a relatively young and infant stage of technology. Our most sophisticated BCI is invasive, and infinitely precise. The problem is that prolonged use will inevitably damage the neurons using the interface. Even basic use of BCI is really tough to become accustomed to using. For example, when I was preparing and readying my research on brain-wave patterns and traits of anti-social personality, the headgear (that measures the brain-waves non-invasive) had two programs you could use to play with to ensure you've properly calibrated the headgear. Imagine a cube, with a floating sphere in the middle. Moving it with basic control took weeks to accomplish. Moving it smoothly took a greater part of a month. Eventually, If I had more time before school ended, I could make it go in a curve. There's another program where it has hoops you shoot balls through, back and forth. It's still young and basic technologies. Sure, we could use invasive ones, but the problem is finding materials that will not damage the neuron. The simple fact that a BCI needs to pick up electric signals, and is directly planted onto your brain itself, will cause damage to neurons after prolonged use. So to jump from this, to having complex thoughts to control fine body movements in an avatar-life form is a stretch.

    Speaking of neuroscience: Personality. What is personality? Its an accumulation of your preferences, likes, things that make you happy, things that you think of, things you will to happen, and what you don't like, your attitudes and your mode of thinking is. Right? So, if we're to modify memory, it means we have fundamentally altered our personality.Right? If you change how we form memories, how we retrieve memories for recall.. if it isn't the same as we do now, then we have fundamentally changed our personality. Our poor recall allows us to specifically recall certain aspects or traits of memories for whatever use. If its picture perfect every time, then we were not the same person before we were transferred into our avatars.

    In a similar Aspect: We would also consider what is consciousness? Seriously. It might be something simple to many people, but if you take a meta-analysis, there is no clear biological definition of what it is. It's an abstract concept that exists in us (and possibly animals.). If we definite it in a certain way, we are likely to find what we are looking for, because if we test it against everything else the brain does (which is a pretty activity specific organ), then we are either highly likely to find it, or find no trace of it. So, what is consciousness? How do we "find" it in our brain if its original concept is abstract but accepted as something we have?

    ...and please, Don't say the Pineal gland. xD

    Cognitive systems in humans and robots can never be 100% the same because humans intuitively respond to emotional situations differently. It isn't 100% the same for all of us. There are also many theories which describe our thought process. The problem is that all the theories are partially right and wrong, with mutually exclusive foundations. How can a system be built to accommodate these theories? Accepting one theory and denying another is like missing a fundamental part in how you could, or another person around the world, in how they think. If you need an example of what I mean, Imagine this. A square photo with a lion about to hunt some zebras in the wild. Westerners tend to focus on the two big things, while Eastern people will tend to look at the whole photo instead.

    The video seemed overly optimistic. Assuming 100% of everyone who hears and readily welcomes this development agenda, I can see a lot of this coming to existence. Surely, It'd be possible, but I don't think by 2045 we'll have full avatars and full immortality.

    .... So I guess what I want to say is that I'm doubtful of such rapid change coming into our lives in respect to how much mankind can truly propel its own development into the future. I mean, I'm pretty stoked, there are lots of technologies to be had if we're to accomplish even 1/5th of the goal the video sets out. I don't see it actually being realistic. Yes, it would require fundamental changes in how we think, but are these changes really worth it? It'd be awesome to live forever, but knowing I will someday die makes my current existence much sweeter than knowing it'll last forever.
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2012
  20. #20
    hawk

    hawk because the internet LPA Super VIP

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    Also, yes, lets just put my memory on a fucking USB stick and plug it into this avatar.

    Also, doesn't time make life what it is? "I won't go sky diving today, I'll go next century."

    I hope this works, and then a meteor kills everyone the following day.

    I honestly can't even seeing this happen. I'd expect a digestive system, because I ain't living in a world where no foods nor drinks for that matter need to be consumed, I want to eat damn pizza. I also want to be able to feel, like if someone poked me, so have fun with the nerves and shit.
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2012

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