Do you think President Bush should be impeached?

Discussion in 'Serious Chat' started by Link04, Oct 22, 2004.

  1. #61
    Derek

    Derek LPAssociation.com Administrator LPA Administrator

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    One of the biggest things I see Kerry supporters bitching about is how Bush created a "huge defecit" in the wake of his decision to go to war in Iraq. What people dont realize is that in every war we've had..even with some of our better presidents (Lincoln, Roosevelt etc.) we've had some sort of defecit.

    Anti-Bush people will claim Bush's economy is hurting us. Well then, let me ask you guys..how are you affected by the defecit? I've heard everyone bitch about how Bush apparentely screwed everything up, but how many of you are actually piss poor? How many of you are unable to get by from week to week and how many of you who are complaining cannot afford food or material items to use in your everyday lives? Doesn't seem like many to me.

    A lot of you have your expensive digital cameras, your big screen tvs, your new computers and your Xbox/Playstation 2's that you use everyday without thinking of how fortunate you are. Go to any third world country and they can't even afford food. It would be ludicrous to even suggest they could afford any of these things American people use everyday.

    You all claim that this defecit is hurting America so bad, and yet several of you have either purchased one of the items I listed above or things that are far more expensive. In the wake of 9/11 we could have gone into a depression where many of you would have had to sell your prized items just to get food on the table. I dont recall having to scrounge up money for a decent meal AT ALL during the past few years, and that's because Bush kept us from falling into another depression.

    I urge every last one of you to go to Kerry On Iraq and watch the documentary from start to finish. This movie states sources, dates, times and even provides video as proof of all the times Kerry has changed his mind. This film backs up everything with documented footage, leaving almost no room for errors. (I cant say the same about F911 which has well over 30 screwups in the film itself).

    Kerry has gone from saying everything Bush is saying now to being a complete opposite as election time draws near. Don't think he just started to flip-flop either, Kerry was doing this back in 1991 when Saddam was confirmed to have weapons of mass destruction.

    After watching that short documentary, I cant see how anyone would want to vote for Kerry. If you want to talk about lies to the America people, see how many times he changed his mind on one of the biggest factors of this current election: The Iraq War.
     
  2. #62
    NickelNine

    NickelNine It's the gin talking >>>>> LPA VIP

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    i think we should let the upcoming election happen.. then decide.
    if bush wins.. then ill think about it..
    if kerry wins.. bush is gone..
    if admiral ackbar wins.. even better!
     
  3. #63
    Derek

    Derek LPAssociation.com Administrator LPA Administrator

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    You're crazy.

    And just what are ackbar's views on the important issues?. :chemist: :lol:
     
  4. #64
    Link04

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    I'm not a Kerry supporter, but I'll comment on Bush's deficit.

    Just about the war, this is not like any other war. This is eradication. The "war on terror" IS eradication, not a war against one government, one regime, or one country. The amount of resources he exhausts is only going to keep mounting until we "win." IF we can win, that is. Secondly, and I say this secondly, but I forget the damn source, but I remember reading a bunch of facts on how Bush's corporate dealings have cost our economy 3 times as much as the war in Iraq. I'll be feverishly hunting for that source to back it up.
     
  5. #65
    Glenn

    Glenn Super Member LPA Super Member

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    I can see what you mean Derek, but it's normal for us to be concerned about nice things in life. Sure we want to end poverty, but the economy should still be in the best condition for the rich and middle class as well. We're better off than many other countries. Yes we can feel sorry for them and even better, help them, but we don't need to concentrate on the fact that we should stop complaining. We need to keep improving. Of course many of us aren't going to become piss poor. We shouldn't take nice things for granted but we should improve on what we have and how our economy can function.

    Here's how the deficit affects us.
    Minimum Wage=Low
    Health Care Prices=HIGH
    etc.
     
  6. #66
    Methybrea

    Methybrea Well-Known Member

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    I think Link04 sums it up perfectly...this war was meaningless and it was its sole purpose was to start trying to "stabilize" the Middle East and make sure their oil resources are safe and prices don't skyrocket. Maybe personnal vendatta too, but their intentions weren't "liberation"....

    And about all of us "complaining" about a deficit...most people on here can't because they aren't in that position. AND Most of the millions of American's living in poverty wouldn't have a computer in their house....therefore most people here come from fairly well-off families. But that still doesn't mean that there aren't many, many people that are in poverty.

    Here is a great article to show this:

    Rising Gap Between Rich And Poor
     
  7. #67
    Derek

    Derek LPAssociation.com Administrator LPA Administrator

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    I hate to sound heartless but hasn't there always been a considerable gap between rich and poor people? And while the media says the gap is rising, if anything I think it's been lowered while Bush is in office, let me explain..

    Back when Clinton was president for two terms, my family had seen better days with the economy. We had trouble making ends meet and had to depend on ONE JOB to get our source of income. Anybody who knows how expensive everyday living is, will know that one job rarely ever supports a family of 5 (my brother and sister lived with us at the time).

    However; after Bush came into office everything started looking better for my family. We are now able to make ends meet and also have enough money to spend on things that could be considered "material" and not absolutely neccesary to the flow of life. We're always able to have food on the table, and even through the war, and supposed defecit, our economic outlook is only getting better as Bush is in office. We all figure that when the year is over, we will be the wealthiest we've been IN YEARS.

    So how can you sit there and say that we're in a economic slump when a family that used to have money troubles is now doing the best they've done in a LONG time?

    The media tries to claim the economy is the worst it's ever been and yet I'm doing great. What the hell kind of bullshit is that?
     
  8. #68
    Todd

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    You want to see an economic slump? Come to the town I live in. Income is below average and unemployment rates are sky high. Go drive around the residental part, no fancy homes, people are almost living in shacks because thats how piss poor the houses are. Some of the best housing in the town are the college dorms I live it, and thats not saying much because the dorms are ancient and falling apart themselves. Take a drive out to Wal Mart and look around the parking lot. You won't see any fancy BMWs and Mercedes. A lot of the cars are old and falling apart, Honda would be considered a luxury automobile in this town. And the people in the town don't dress like they just spent the day shopping at Saks 5th Avenue. You can tell the local government is having a budget crisis because the streets are in bad condition. The average income of people around here is so damn low that retail stores like Target and Best Buy have pretty much decided this town isn't worth their time or money. Oh and if you decide to live here and need a job, well, good luck my friend because I've tried, none of the places around here are hiring.

    Come spend a week in this town then try to tell me the economy has been good with Bush in office. I'll tell you you're full of shit.
     
  9. #69
    Jila

    Jila Super Member LPA Super Member

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    yeah, here in vegas there were so many people who got laid off when bush was in office. i think maybe a fourth of everyone in each of my classes had a parent who got laid off. it was on the news for the longest time about how so many people have no jobs now.
     
  10. #70
    Ander

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    What's good for Derek isn't perfect for everyone else. :lol:
     
  11. #71
    Derek

    Derek LPAssociation.com Administrator LPA Administrator

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    I'm very sorry to hear you're having troubles in your hometowns. But tell me Todd or Jila, were any of you better off when Clinton was in office? Many people who I've talked to have told me their parents are making 'bank' for the first time in a decade. They told me they NEVER did good during Clinton.

    I feel horrible that you two are doing horrible, but if you can tell me that Clinton did any better for you (considering the stock market crash) then I'll accept that there are some cases in which the economy is not helping the American people. But as far as I can see? Most people are NOT having trouble. And since Bush supports smaller businesses, wouldn't you want that seeing how most families (especially mine) make their money off of independant business ventures?
     
  12. #72
    Today After Tomorrow

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    Just a little side-note for the on-going debate in this thread: IF(never gonna happen) Bush is re-elected he plans to ask for another $70 billion for Iraq sometime in the beginning of the year, most likely sometime late Febuary. What in the hell is he doing with all of this money? The bill is already $142,000,000,000 and now he wants to spend another $70,000,000,000?

    You know what would be nice? To spend a little of that money here. ;) Even just a couple billion. That's it. We could fix a whole lot of things with that money. Find out what here. Maybe we shouldn't worry about rebuilding other countrys so much when our own country needs rebuilding?

    And don't worry, Derek, you'll still be able to have food on the table everynight. You'll still have extra money to spend on a couple "wants" instead of "needs." Your family will still be doing well, maybe even better. BUT, with John Kerry as president, so will millions more familys out there. That's something to think about. :)
     
  13. #73
    Jila

    Jila Super Member LPA Super Member

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    well i dont know if its just because its las vegas, which is like the tourist capital of the world. most the jobs that have been lost were from casinos. so many doctors have quit too because they werent being paid enough, there was this whole scare about how there wont be doctors in the trauma center so if you got in a really bad accident you would have to be flown to california. to be honest, nothing like that happened when clinton was in office. but i mean, im not trying to change anyones opinion on this, im just saying whats going on where i live.
     
  14. #74



    It's true that every war will lead to some sort of deficit, but the deficit faced by America now is the largest in history. Besides, it's not just about the economy. There's something that the Bush administration that pisses me off, and that's how they're creating a culture of fear to manipulate people. Think about it - after 9/11, many Americans have willingly (or reluctantly) given up their basic rights in favor of the USA Patriot Act. The government doesn't call this an infringement of people's rights - they say it's for YOUR own good and that they're doing it to protect your safety and sadly, people have been buying this lame-ass excuse and happily letting the government monitor their phone calls, emails and library records without saying a word.

    Bush needs to go because having him in office for another 4 years is like signing mankind's death warrant. The next thing you know, he'll be wanting to invade Syria, Iran, North Korea and then we might as well have a third World War. It might sound ridiculous now but don't expect anything less from Bush.

    I'll go check out that Kerry documentary, but if Kerry's a flip-flop, then Bush is just as much a flip-flop as he is. The first Rock Against Bush DVD has put together a series of clips of Bush and Donald Rumsfeld's statements on Iraq's WMD status. If you watch it from beginning to end, you'd be amazed at how many times they change stance. First, they're sure that Iraq has WMD capability. Then next minute, it's "we're certain that Iraq possesses WMD" and now, it's blatantly obvious that Iraq has little WMD capability, if any. Now if that's not flip-flopping and incompetence, then what is? Bush's incompetence (or maybe he was just lying through his teeth about WMD) has dragged the whole world through this mess that's the Iraq war. So many people have died for an unworthy cause and a problem that could've been resolved without military aggression. It's not just a bad decision made by one president, it's the shortsightedness and selfishness of an entire administration.
     
  15. #75
    Todd

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    My family's always been well off. I just go to college here, my parents live in a somewhat upper class suburb of St. Louis. They were well off under Clinton. They're doing OK under Bush too, but definitley not any better than they were 4 years ago, so its fair to say about the same. And a majority of my family's money does come from a small business, but Bush hasn't helped that one bit. But just go 90 miles south of my home to the town I'm in right now, and you'll see the economy hasn't done jack shit for the people here.
     
  16. #76
    Shade

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    Yes, the economy in the case of my family was better during Clinton. Were it not for my mom's business, we would be more worried. My dad's job is continually using threats of unemployment on their employees, constantly referring to the hard times we're going through. Its almost a type of blackmail, they use it as a means to get employees to do and give up things, because they know, if they lose the job, getting another one could be very difficult.

    My neighbors meanwhile are in harder times every day, what with the brilliance of privatized health care. When an entire family has to do bouts with depression, it gets expensive, especially under a health care system that Bush employs.
     
  17. #77
    Will

    Will bread crumbs & white stones LPA Addicted VIP

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    When Clinton was in office, my parents always had at least $600 extra per month. My dad also had a job. But as soon as Bush took office, we had less and less extra money every month, and my dad's job was shipped out to Mexico, forcing him to find a new job. Better under Bush? Ha. Ha.
     
  18. #78
    Mark

    Mark Canadian Beauty LPA Administrator

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    The fact that your family is doing better is not a model for everyone. Get that straight. Evidence of this is the four-to-one ratio already shown here by your fellow Americans in this thread.
     
  19. #79
    Derek

    Derek LPAssociation.com Administrator LPA Administrator

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    I find it quite ironic how people try to tell me to 'get my facts straight' or try to tell me that 'what works for Derek doesn't work for everyone else' when people suffered under Clinton as well. So if you're going to say that just because I'm doing good doesn't mean its the way everything else is, then naturally I'm gonna say the same for Clinton. Just because YOU did good under Clinton, doesn't mean I did good under Clinton. You seriously need to 'get that straight' before you can even begin to claim I don't know what I'm talking about.

    My point I was making was that YOU personally are not affected by this defecit. I was not asking if your town was poor, I was not asking if Billy Bob across the street is doing bad, I was asking if YOU are going to be affected whether Bush or Kerry are in office.

    You're still on a computer, you're still owning Xboxes and expensive cameras like I was saying, so therefore if you're gonna use the defecit as your reason for voting for a president, when you yourself are not poor or that badly affected, then your point is null and void!

    For all you people out there who are not registered to vote AND OLD ENOUGH, you are entitled to voice your opinion, but to try and sway someone's opinion when you yourself cannot vote? That's like being a spectator at a football game, and running down to the field, stealing the ball and running for a touchdown. Is what you just did going to matter? No because you're not part of the team. So if you are not voting, sit back, grab some popcorn and watch your televisions on November 2nd. I've seen some people who are old enough, bitching about Bush and yet they arent registered to vote! They have the power to make a difference and yet they wont get off their ass and do so!

    So if you are eligible? Just VOTE. Vote for Bush, vote for Kerry. That's whats most important. Complaining about things that don't even effect YOU (not Jimmy) are not.

    And if you are going to throw in how badly the economy has been under Bush? Explain to me why some people who did bad under Clinton, even after a stock market crash are now getting well paid jobs. If you ARE going to ignore my post and use other people than yourself to make a point, explain why my sister has gone from making 8 dollars to FIFTEEN DOLLARS a hour in a very small amount of time. Surely that'd be impossible for someone who's 'doing so bad' with the economy to accomplish.
     
  20. #80
    Link04

    Link04 Ambient

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    No no no...

    It hardly makes the point null and void. If it's affecting other people, it's affecting this nation, directly or indirectly. People will always suffer, so you could always bring up about how many people suffered under Clinton, but I don't see a 5 trillion dollar deficit and the largest job loss since the Great Depression as normal fluctuation of the economy. Just my take on it. If it's not effecting you now, it most likely will in another 4 years.

    And you are horribly incorrect with your stance on people who aren't elligable to vote. How can I ask for change and do nothing to change it? My age doesn't necessarily affect how politically aware I am, so if I sway one or two people it DOES make a difference, and it DOES change things. If I wasn't attempting to change anything, why would I ask for change? I'm 15, I can't vote, but that will not silence my voice. If I make one person's opinion change, then my goal can be considered accomplished.
     

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