Death...

Discussion in 'Serious Chat' started by hawk, Jul 4, 2010.

  1. travz21

    travz21 Muscle Museum LPA Super Member

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    I don't have a concept of God. I think it's a creation of man. And it has kept on going throughout the years because people are afraid of what will happen to them when they die, as well as not being able to explain their existence on Earth. It's human nature, so I shouldn't be blaming anybody. I just think it's pretty ridiculous that in this day and age that people still believe in fairy tales. Science is very clearly the driving force in the universe.
     
  2. Switchback

    Switchback Well-Known Member

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    Science correlates with religion.

    And, it seems as though you're rejecting the false information of God that you've come across.
     
  3. Gloomy Mushroom

    Gloomy Mushroom Absolute Zero LPA Super VIP

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    I totally see where you're coming from. Maybe it did. I'm not highly religious (or else I wouldn't have conceived out of wedlock) but I do think there is a force out there. Because like you said before, it wasn't my time to go and maybe that force might've been God wanting me to stay for the remainder of my life.

    But after facing death, I do think there is someone looking at me. I don't know who or what, but something wanted me stay on Earth. Even if religion causes all this crap around the world, after facing death, it's made me stop and appreciate life so much more.
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2010
  4. Switchback

    Switchback Well-Known Member

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    Well, the event could serve as a wake up call to go out and learn more. You already mentioned you appreciate your life a whole lot more. And, even though you're not highly religious, you could look to learn more about the Creator and creation. (Although, I don't mean to sound as though I'm pushing anything on you.)
     
  5. Gloomy Mushroom

    Gloomy Mushroom Absolute Zero LPA Super VIP

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    I have always believed that something created us all, even if it comes from Heaven or Hell. I mean, science is science and religion is religion, but both have connections. I chose to believe what I believe through experience, not through what some altered book dictates to me. I also believe that death is not an ending of something, but yet, it could be the beginning of something, like a journey. But I've learnt that through out my cultural travels and day to day experience. I wasn't brought up to believe in just one religion, but in a number of them combined. I don't know how old everyone else is, or how far they've travelled, but I'm 21, and been through a number of countries when young and those beliefs hold with me. So who created the creator? No one, really. It was a little bit of this and a little bit of that. No one created 'God'. I believe he was created by heaven and hell because he is a little bit of good and a little bit of bullshit at the same time.
     
  6. Switchback

    Switchback Well-Known Member

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    Science and religion do correlate, as well.
    And, there is one religious scripture that hasn't been altered by man. And never will be.
    As for believing in various religions; rivers, oceans, seas, puddles all contain water, just as all religions contain truths.

    And, as I said in an earlier post, God, by definition, is uncreated.
     
  7. Dean

    Dean LPA Super Member LPA Addict

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    In the grand scheme of things, maybe it is. It doesn't mean I can't aim to make the best of it though. I just try to be the best person I can be.

    And when I talk about God I guess I mean an omnipotent, benevolent force.
     
  8. Gloomy Mushroom

    Gloomy Mushroom Absolute Zero LPA Super VIP

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    By definition, God was created by the heavens (Christian/Catholic belief) or some sort of Heavenly power. But that's not what I choose to believe because I think he cannot because he's not entirely good.
     
  9. Switchback

    Switchback Well-Known Member

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    If it's an accident and nothing will come if, why bother? Why have morals, etc?



    Oh? Do you have the verses of the Bible for that? I hadn't read that.
     
  10. Dean

    Dean LPA Super Member LPA Addict

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    Because I'm here and I want to.
     
  11. Switchback

    Switchback Well-Known Member

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    How would you convince an evil-doer to stop doing their evil deeds?
    The concept of peace and humanity is useless without the belief of the hereafter.
     
  12. Dean

    Dean LPA Super Member LPA Addict

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    Peace and humanity doesn't stop being beneficial just because it lies in our hands and not God's. What difference does it make? I don't see how his existence is necessary for that, and I live my life now and not in preparation for the off-chance that there might be an afterlife, so it stands to reason that I should try my best in the here and now.
     
  13. travz21

    travz21 Muscle Museum LPA Super Member

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    So the main reason you do good things is because of afterlife? Shouldn't you do them because you feel it's the right thing to do and because you want to be a better person? Wouldn't God frown upon people who do things just because they are told by the Bible? Those people shouldn't go to heaven. It should be reserved for people who truly are good people. If I made the Bible, things would be way better.

    Myself, I don't need a fiction book to tell me what's right and wrong. I'm perfectly able to deduce those things on my own. The point of living isn't to do the right things so you make it to heaven. That's the most pathetic reason to be a good person I've ever heard.

    And science and religion have nothing to do with one another. They are opposing forces that will never give way to the other because one isn't real and will never be able to be disproved.
     
  14. Switchback

    Switchback Well-Known Member

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    Alright. Let's use this example. Robbing is an evil act, I'm sure you'll agree. How would a person who does not believe in the afterlife convince a powerful criminal that robbing is evil and not to do it?

    It's not my main reason. I'm using it as an example.
    Religious scriptures are used for guidance. A parent will tell his/her young child not to do a certain thing, and will be pleased if their child listens. Does a child always know why he/she should/shouldn't do things?

    "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind." And, "a little knowledge of science makes man an atheist, but an in-depth study of science makes him a believer in God."
    Religious scriptures has paved way for many scientific discoveries.
     
  15. Todd

    Todd FLǕGGȦ∂NKđ€ČHIŒβǾLʃÊN LPA Administrator

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    There are plenty of things to convince me to not do anything evil that have nothing to do with religion. I don't kill people I don't like because I'm worried about hell, I don't kill people because I don't want to go to jail for the rest of my life. The notion that people need to be scared of something to be good is bullshit, especially when you consider all of the atrocities committed in the name of religion throughout history.
     
  16. travz21

    travz21 Muscle Museum LPA Super Member

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    Like how when we finally discovered that the Earth wasn't the center of the universe the church tried to cover it up for a really long time? And after it finally got out, how they tried to spew some nonsense to try to make sense of it to other Christians?


    This discussion has finally hit the point of no return. Here are some good vids

    [youtube]glRAN_8CkvQ[/youtube]

    [youtube]bkhQLt1vbWU[/youtube]

    Edit: a few more videos

    [youtube]pkCuc34hvD4[/youtube]

    [youtube]fnjfxCp92pc[/youtube]

    [youtube]P591Yt6dIHY[/youtube]
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2010
  17. Switchback

    Switchback Well-Known Member

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    How about a super criminal? How do you convince him/her not to do those things?

    Atrocities have been committed in the name of many things. The underlying cause/reason? Man's failings.
     
  18. Switchback

    Switchback Well-Known Member

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    You're assuming I'm a Christian.

    If a new object, machine, (or whatever) that no one has ever seen of or heard of before is brought in front of you, and you're asked who is the first person that can provide the mechanisms of the object, what will the viable answer be? The creator, producer, manufacturer. I.e, the person who made it.

    Theory of probability (quick overview, I'm sure you understand it):
    You roll a six sided dice, you have 1/6 chance of guessing the outcome correctly. Roll again, you have 1/36 (1/6 x 1/6) of guessing both outcomes correctly.

    Let's apply this to The Qur'an, and assume that the information it reveals was guessed (which was unknown at the time).

    At the time when The Qur'an was revealed, people thought the world was flat, there are several other options for the shape of the earth. It could be triangular, it could be quadrangular, pentagonal, hexagonal, heptagonal, octagonal, spherical, etc. Lets assume there are about 30 different options for the shape of the earth. The Qur'an rightly says it is spherical, if it was a guess the chances of the guess being correct is 1/30.

    The light of the moon can be its own light or a reflected light. The Qur’an rightly says it is a reflected light. If it is a guess, the chances that it will be correct is 1/2 and the probability that both the guesses i.e the earth is spherical and the light of the moon is reflected light is 1/30 x 1/2 = 1/60.

    Further, The Qur’an also mentions every living thing is made of water. Every living thing can be made up of either wood, stone, copper, aluminum, steel, silver, gold, oxygen, nitrogen, hydrogen, oil, water, cement, concrete, etc. The options are say about 10,000. The Qur'an rightly says that everything is made up of water. If it is a guess, the chances that it will be correct is 1/10,000 and the probability of all the three guesses i.e. the earth is spherical, light of moon is reflected light and everything is created from water being correct is 1/30 x 1/2 x 1/10,000 = 1/60,000 which is equal to about 0.0017%.

    After only three fully established scientific facts, the chance of guessing is equal to about 0.0017%. It would further decrease with the many more scientific facts that are stated. Could they all have been guessed? It's beyond human capacity to guess all of these things, without a single mistake. 80% of The Qur'an has proven to be true. The other 20% is unambiguous, not yet proved.
    The logical answer is that the creator provided this information.

    The Qur'an is a book of guidance and signs. It has over 6,000 verses and more than 1,000 speak of science.
     
  19. travz21

    travz21 Muscle Museum LPA Super Member

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    Who would have thought that people who observe the world around them would understand some of it?
     
  20. Switchback

    Switchback Well-Known Member

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    Sure. For some things, you could say that. However, if you read, there are countless things in there. Many of which were only recently discovered, with technology.
    And, the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) was illiterate.
     

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