lol, slipknot = extreme metal. replacement for pantera? o rly? since when was pantera the standard for "metal" bands to achieve success by? last time i checked the only reason they're popular post-break up is because of dimebag dying and we all know when someone dies, their discography gets analyzed and rated far better than it actually was, and because Phil is a decent to good vocalist for the kind of band he was in, and is quite the character himself. i don't think pantera has any lasting legacy, myself, so using that argument doesn't/won't change my mind about slipknot and/or stone sour being completely worthless in a few years to a decade.
Most people have no idea who Rick is. Bands will always have a longer lasting impression on the world than a pseudo-producer.
No revisionist history here. Pantera were popular in their day. Far Beyond Driven debuted at number one back in '94. Aside from Metallica and Megadeth (who both had started to slow down and get more melodic, which is why I used, for lack of a better term, "extreme metal" to differentiate Pantera from those bands), heavy bands weren't exactly selling a lot of albums or playing to thousands of people. So, yes, in that sense, I and a lot of other people do consider Pantera the standard for success with regards to metal. In short, people still remember Pantera, therefore people will still remember the even more popular Slipknot. Will they have the same impact on the industry that Rick Rubin has had? Probably not, but that's beside the point. We're not talking about quality or influence. I'm not sure why you think that's deserving of condescension, to be honest. Unless this is some sort of elitist "LOL 'EXTREME METAL.' PANTERA IS FOR PUSSIES!!! LISTEN TO REAL METAL LIKE NILE" pissing match, which I doubt.
Rick Helped LP get out of the ' What our music should sound like phase'. It was never Rick's fault. The band wanted to change and did. Rick just helped them to make that transition.
He helped by staying out of their way I suppose. In any case. Here are Corey's thoughts on Rick Rubin in 2004. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMkNzTa6IpE
To me, Vol. 3 is their best album, by far. And the most original and creative one too. The album has a very unique sound, including Corey's screams. And better lyrics (better than the "if you 555 then Im 666", "People equal shit" bullshit). The only album I brought from them.
XD those are 2 of my favorite songs!. . . but I do kind of agree. Probably their best album lyrically @snail: in the video he kind of sounds like he's trying hold to back. When the guy asks "did he show up?" the whole band kinda goes "Uhhhhhhhhh" and then corey kind of comes in, so I definitely think this them trying not to hurt his feelings I guess, because they do have some respect for him.
My oppinion about this thread is that Corey needed another producer for himself, who shows up often or all over the studio recording like Don Gilmore did during "Hybrid Theory" and "Meteora". Rick is just an advisor who shows up once a week and discuss the topics. That's how I understood it how it worked. And LP is glad to work in that way during an album production. So the essence is: it depends on who is good as a producer or who are you comfortable to work with.
They were also out promoting the previously mentioned album. You wouldn't have seen Mike or Chester trashing nu-metal in 2003 like they did during the MTM cycle.
Rick is so hands off I have problems believing any so-called "failure" is not the artist's fault. The producer is there to drop feedback. Rick drops feedback and then stays the hell out of the way of the artist. That way his vision isn't clouded by the artist's writing process and he can maintain an outsider's view. If you are not compatible with the philosophy of low-interference producing, then don't hire a low-interference producer. SIMPLE. You'd think someone would know what they're getting into before they buy into it. Artists of his caliber have plenty of choice. This is laughable, though not nearly as laughable as the multitudes of LP fans who think Rick "changed" LP. Again, the whole low-interference thing is his style.
Lol@ even using a producer for creative input. I don't see how it's hard to write music you want to write, what a waste of money.
How do you know if the music you intended to make is the music you actually created? How can you tell what impression anyone has from it if you know every nook, cranny and mistake you've put into it? You know your own art so well that you won't even know it anymore, and this is more true the longer you look at something. I can really only see how someone has your opinion if they've never made any art at all :/ Me: *le spends 8 hours on a drawing* *le drawing looks le awesome* Anybody (after 5 seconds of looking at it): "You fucked up the eyes" Me: "Shit, I did." The difference between a producer and anybody though, is that the producer is gonna see what anybody would see (that you wouldn't), and that they have the worldly experience to know how to prevent that and know how to fix it.
If you're playing in a band, you're not the only person looking at it. You're looking at with two, three, four other people who can give their opinions. That's what playing in a band is almost primarily about, making something representative of all of the individuals involved. My claim to making "art" is playing in a few bands with less than 15 recorded songs.
^ Still, every member of the band will have heard a song a thousand times during recording when they're trying to get it right or improve it, to the point where they won't be able to judge it objectively. Bringing in a producer who has a lot more experience can be very helpful at that stage, when a band trying to nail down if it just sounds good to them, or if it sounds good.
This exact thing. Throwing more people at a problem doesn't work if those people have that very same problem. Band members would help immensely for brainstorming and modifying the music's intention, but they're not gonna see the music's actual effect as a song nears completion. They're all gonna get stuck in the same hole together eventually. I really only see an exception to that in bands where one member is in charge of a whole song and doesn't bring it in to the rest of the band until it's near finished, and band members can only give minor suggestions to the songwriter. That's not every band though. I don't know about Slipknot, but that's definitely NOT how LP writes. LP's writing style definitely needs a producer.