Celsius 41.11

At What Temperature Does The Brain Begin To Die?

On September 21st; Citizens United, a group dedicated to revealing the truth about Michael Moore released "Celsius 41.11" to select theatres across the nation. This movie is said to reveal what Citizens United claims to be the many lies behind Moore's latest film "Farenheit 9/11".

To view the theatrical trailer and tv spot for this movie click here. It's about time the american public knows the 100% truth and not Moore's view on politics.

"There is no terrorist threat..." - Michael Moore
"There are pros and cons to a dictator." - Moore Supporter and Bush Protestor.

 

Yeah I'm hoping it comes to a theater near me. Because if so, I'll see both movies and come to my own conclusions.

 

I couldn't even watch the whole thing.

Moore's saying that "There is no terrorist threat" was more than a year after 9/11 and years after the U.S.S Cole bombing. He did not say this before either terrorist acts were commited. He means that there is no real terrorist threat after 9/11. The American republican government uses the color warning system, the media, and fabricated lies to scare the American public into voting for their party. Apparently a change in administration will increase the likelihood of a terrorist act. Funny how Bush never stopped the 9/11 attacks when just a month before he was advised that Osama Bin Laden was preparing to use planes as bombs to crash into American monuments. Funny how Bush never once in his first 8 months of presidency until 9/11 did he have a meeting with his chief of counter-terrorism. Bush fell down on the job, and the world, not just the US, needs someone better. If the US attacked every country who they were paranoid about, then there'd eventually be nothing left of the world. This administration isn't just a US problem, it's a worldwide crisis, especially for it's neighbours in North America. Any massive attack on the US (the possibility of someone hitting the US with a nuke is more likely every day) effects Canadians and Mexicans too. That's why Bush needs to go, the world hates him, and wants change.

And then they liken Moore to a Hussein-worshipper? A nazi? What the hell? Republicans have stooped to a brand new low, even worse than questioning John Kerry's noble service in Vietnam, a war that Bush avoided by making sure he got a post at the Texas National Air Guard. The republicans know the truth is getting out there through Moore, and they want to try to hurt his reputation by spreading hate propghanda. Moore's points in F9/11 have all been confirmed by the Security Council's 9/11 Commission Report. Absolutely blasphemy.

 

I wouldn't waste my time watching that pile of garbage.

Hell, I doubt any of them even watched F911 all the way through....just about everyone who says that F911 is all lies and propaganda has never even seen a minute of the movie. The people behind Celsius 41.11 are probably those typical right wing bigots who spew bullshit "oh, michael moore is a liar becuase he's a fat assed liberal". If people would actually watch the movie before making comments, I wouldn't mind so much. Hell, here's a conversation I had with someone not too long ago:

Him: I hate Michael Moore. If I ever saw him I would kill him.
Me: Why?
Him: He makes our troops look bad in the movie, he makes them look like murderers
Me: How would you know? Have you ever seen the movie?
Him: No

So...I show him the clip in F911 where one soldier is singing The Roof is on Fire and the other is saying how going into buildings shooting everyone is an adrenaline rush. Michael Moore didn't make them look like murderers, the soldiers did. They should have kept quiet instead of making themselves look bad. And of course the person I was talking to had no real response.

 

To say that there's no terrorist threat after 9/11, is pure rubbish. There has always been a terrorist threat in America and after 9/11 it only became more apparent. If Mr. Moore claims there is no need to worry, then explain to me why there has been a terrorist attack every few years (USS Cole, 9/11, Oklahoma bombing, the massacre that happened in that school in Russia etc). I used to think Bush was a complete a$$hole, but you know what? There has not been an terrorist attack on American soil since 9/11, and I'd like to believe that fact is pretty impressive.

You can accuse people who don't follow Moore's "anti-bush propaganda" of being ill-informed, but how do you know that you aren't being fed a line of sh*t yourselves? There is so many half truths in politics lately that if you choose to believe Moore just because he made a movie about it, then you are more narrowminded then any of those republicans that you claim to be narrowminded for not knowing the supposed 'truth'. You try to pass off footage as being proof of what went down, but have you ever paid attention to television? Things are constantly being edited to create fights that never happened, or to make a situation look worse than it is. If Bush went on vacation, explain why in one vacation shot you can clearly see him talking to someone of importance, someone who was more than likely talking him about 9/11?

Also dont give me this crap about how Moore's backed up because of a couple of documents. Your beloved Kerry's military service is just as questionable as Bush's and I find it quite funny how several high ups have proved those incriminating documents about Bush to be "complete forgeries." I suppose in your mindless support of Wishy-Washy Kerry, you forgot those important facts before deciding to put them in your post. I for one, do not want Kerry as our president because he lies out his ass and constantly changes his mind on very important topics to this country. Such instability is not what we want in a president, and we want someone who sticks to what he claims. As much as you hate Bush for keeping our troops in Iraq, he's stuck to his promise of trying to fight terrorism worldwide. He might have made a mistake going in without UN support, but answer this...had he not done that, would Saddam Hussein still be in charge of Iraq? I bet you he would.

There have been several sites and books and now even a movie out there to spotlight how much Moore has lied to the public. Unfortunately you guys will always follow the preachings of that deceitful, manipulative fat man for as long as he makes movies and attempts to make our country look like sh*t. My advice to him is if he doesn't like America he needs to move to England then because I'd rather not have him on American soil a second longer. I hate Michael Moore with a passion, and I'll just laugh as you continue to follow his lies like he was some sort of savior.

Sites of Interest:

2

And for those of you who can take a long read:

The Bush Administration's Successes spotted by Dan K. O'Leary
Spotted at Rightnation.us and GOPUSA.com reprinted here for your pleasure. I encourage people who support Bush to learn how effective our President has been, and liberals ought to browse this too. Just remember, the liberal media can't cover up the truth of his accomplishments.
The Bush Administration 2001-2004


Abortion & Traditional Values

1. Banned Partial Birth Abortion — by far the most significant roll-back of abortion on demand since Roe v. Wade.
2. Reversed Clinton's move to strike Reagan's anti-abortion Mexico Policy.
3. By Executive Order (EO), reversed Clinton's policy of not requiring parental consent for abortions under the Medical Privacy Act.
4. By EO, prohibited federal funds for international family planning groups that provide abortions and related services.
5. Upheld the ban on abortions at military hospitals.
6. Made $33 million available for abstinence education programs in 2004.
7. Supports the Defense of Marriage Act — and a Constitutional amendment saying marriage is between one man and one woman.
8. Requires states to conduct criminal background checks on prospective foster and adoptive parents.
9. Requires districts to let students transfer out of dangerous schools.
10. Requires schools to have a zero-tolerance policy for classroom disruption (reintroducing discipline into classrooms).
11. Signed the Teacher Protection Act, which protects teachers from lawsuits related to student discipline.
12. Expanded the role of faith-based and community organizations in after-school programs.


Budget, Taxes & Economy

1. Signed two income tax cuts, one of which was the largest dollar-value tax cut in world history.
2. Supports permanent elimination of the death tax.
3. Turned around an inherited economy that was in recession, and deeply shocked as a result of the 9/11 attacks.
4. Is seeking legislation to amend the Constitution to give the president line-item veto authority.
5. In process of permanently eliminating IRS marriage penalty.
6. Increased small business incentives to expand and to hire new people.
7. Initiated discussion on privatizing Social Security and individual investment accounts.
8. Killed Clinton's "ergonomic" rules that OSHA was about to implement; rules would have shut down every home business in America.
9. Passed tough new laws to hold corporate criminals to account as a result of corporate scandals.
10. Reduced taxes on dividends and capital gains.
11. Signed trade promotion authority.
12. Reduced and is working to ultimately eliminate the estate tax for family farms and ranches.
13. Fight Europe's ban on importing biotech crops from the United States.
14. Exempt food from unilateral trade sanctions and embargoes.
15. Provided $20 million to states to help people with disabilities work from home.
16. Created a fund to encourage technologies that help the disabled.
17. Increased the annual contribution limit on Education IRA's from $500 to $2,000 per child.
18. Make permanent the $5,000 adoption tax credit and provide $1 billion over five years to increase the credit to $10,000.
19. Grant a complete tax exemption for prepaid or college tuition savings plans.
20. Reduced H1B visas from a high of 195,000 per year to 66,000 per year.


Character & Conduct as President

1. Changed the tone in the White House, restoring HONOR and DIGNITY to the presidency.
2. Has reintroduced the mention of God and faith into public discourse.
3. Handled himself with enormous courage, dignity, grace, determination, and leadership in the aftermath of the September 11, 2001 hijackings and anthrax attacks. He almost single-handedly held this country together during those searing days:

Just three days after the attacks, in his address at the National Cathedral, the President reassured the nation when he said: "War has been waged against us by stealth and deceit and murder. This nation is peaceful, but fierce when stirred to anger. This conflict was begun on the timing and terms of others. It will end in a way, and at an hour, of our choosing."


On Friday, September 14, 2001, President Bush visited Ground Zero. Standing on a crushed and burned fire engine atop the smoldering pile at Ground Zero, he put his arm around a retired firefighter who had volunteered to help, and began speaking to the crowd. Rescue workers shouted that they could not hear him. Someone handed him a small American flag and bullhorn. The President spontaneously shouted: "I can hear you. The rest of the world hears you. And the people who knocked these buildings down will hear all of us soon." The crowd roared with cheers and chants of "USA! USA! USA!" Then he raised that American flag and rallied a nation.


Education & Employment Training

1. Signed the No Child Left Behind Act, delivering the most dramatic education reforms in a generation (challenging the soft bigotry of low expectations). The very liberal California Teachers union is currently running radio ads against the accountability provisions of this Act.
2. Announced "Jobs for the 21st Century," a comprehensive plan to better prepare workers for jobs in the new millennium by strengthening post-secondary education and job training, and by improving high school education.
3. Is working to provide vouchers to low-income students in persistently failing schools to help with costs of attending private schools. (Blocked in the Senate.)
4. Requires annual reading and math tests in grades three through eight.
5. Requires states to participate in the National Assessment of Education Progress, or an equivalent program, to establish a national benchmark for academic performance.
6. Requires school-by-school accountability report cards.
7. Established a $2.4 billion fund to help states implement teacher accountability systems.
8. Increased funding for the Troops-to-Teachers program, which recruits former military personnel to become teachers.


Environment & Energy

1. Killed the Kyoto Global Warming Treaty.
2. Submitted a comprehensive Energy Plan (awaits Congressional action). The plan works to develop cleaner technology, produce more natural gas here at home, make America less dependent on foreign sources of energy, improve national grid, etc.
3. Established a $10 million grant program to promote private conservation initiatives.
4. Significantly eased field-testing controls of genetically engineered crops.
5. Changed parts of the Forestry Management Act to allow necessary cleanup of the national forests in order to reduce fire danger.
6. Part of national forests cleanup: Restricted judicial challenges (based on the Endangered Species Act and other challenges), and removed the need for an Environmental Impact Statement before removing fuels/logging to reduce fire danger.
7. Killed Clinton's CO2 rules that were choking off all of the electricity surplus to California.
8. Provided matching grants for state programs that help private landowners protect rare species.


Defense & Foreign Policy

1. Successfully executed two wars in the aftermath of 9/11/01: Afghanistan and Iraq. 50 million people who had lived under tyrannical regimes now live in freedom.
2. Saddam Hussein is now in prison. His two murderous sons are dead. All but a handful of the regime's senior members were killed or captured.
3. Leader by leader and member by member, al Maida is being hunted down in dozens of countries around the world. Of the senior al Qaeda leaders, operational managers, and key facilitators the U.S. Government has been tracking, nearly two-thirds have been taken into custody or killed. The detentions or deaths of senior al Qaeda leaders, including Khalid Shaykh Muhammad, the mastermind of 9/11, and Muhammad Atef, Osama bin Laden's second-in-command until his death in late 2001, have been important in the War on Terror.
4. Disarmed Libya of its chemical, nuclear and biological WMD's without bribes or bloodshed.
5. Continues to execute the War On Terror, getting worldwide cooperation to track funds/terrorists. Has cut off much of the terrorists' funding, and captured or killed many key leaders of the al Qaeda network.
6. Initiated a comprehensive review of our military, which was completed just prior to 9/11/01, and which accurately reported that ASYMMETRICAL WARFARE capabilities were critical in the 21st Century.
7. Killed the old US/Soviet Union ABM Treaty that was preventing the U.S. from deploying our ABM defenses.
8. Has been one of the strongest, if not THE strongest friend Israel has ever hand in the U.S. presidency.
9. Part of the coalition for an Israeli/Palestinian "Roadmap to Peace," along with Great Britain, Russia and the EU.
10. Pushed through THREE raises for our military. Increased military pay by more than $1 billion a year.
11. Signed the LARGEST nuclear arms reduction in world history with Russia.
12. Started withdrawing our troops from Bosnia, and has announced withdrawal of our troops from Germany and the Korean DMZ.
13. Prohibited putting U.S. troops under U.N. command.
14. Paid back UN dues only in return for reforms and reduction of U.S. share of the costs.
15. Earmarked at least 20 percent of the Defense procurement budget for next-generation weaponry.
16. Increased defense research and development spending by at least $20 billion from fiscal 2002 to 2006.
17. Ordered a comprehensive review of military weapons and strategy.
18. Ordered a review of overseas deployments.
19. Ordered renovation of military housing. The military has already upgraded about 10 percent of its inventory and expects to modernize 76,000 additional homes this year.
20. Is working to tighten restrictions on military-technology exports.
21. Brought back our EP-3 intel plane and crew from China without any bribes or bloodshed.


Globalization & Internationalism

1. Challenged the United Nations to live up to their responsibilities and not become another League of Nations (in other words, showed the UN to be completely irrelevant).
2. Killed U.S. involvement in the International Criminal Court.
3. Told the United Nations we weren't interested in their plans for gun control (i.e., the International Ban on Small Arms Trafficking Treaty).*
4. The only President since the founding of the UN to essentially tell that organization it is irrelevant. He said: "The conduct of the Iraqi regime is a threat to the authority of the United Nations, and a threat to peace. Iraq has answered a decade of UN demands with a decade of defiance. All the world now faces a test, and the United Nations a difficult and defining moment. Are Security Council resolutions to be honored and enforced, or cast aside without consequence? Will the United Nations serve the purpose of its founding, or will it be irrelevant?" We all know the outcome and the answer.
5. Told the Congress and the world, "America will never seek a permission slip to defend the security of our country."


Government Reform

1. Improved government efficiency by putting hundreds of thousands of jobs put up for bid. This weakens public-sector unions and cuts undeserved pay raises.
2. Initiated review of all federal agencies with the goal of eliminating federal jobs (completed September 2003) in an effort to reduce the size of the federal government while increasing private sector jobs.
3. Led the most extensive reorganization the Federal bureaucracy in over 50 years: After 9/11, condensed 20+ overlapping agencies and their intelligence sectors into one agency, the Department of Homeland Security.*
4. Ordered each agency to draft a five-year plan to restructure itself, with fewer managers.
5. Converted federal service contracts to performance-based contracts wherever possible so that the contractor has measurable performance goals.


Health

1. Strengthen the National Health Service Corps to put more physicians in the neediest areas, and make its scholarship funds tax-free.
2. Double the research budget of the National Institutes of Health.
3. Signed Medicare Reform, which includes:

A 10-year privatization option.


Prescription drug benefits: Prior to this reform, Medicare paid for extended hospital stays for ulcer surgery, for example, at a cost of about $28,000 per patient. Yet Medicare would not pay for the drugs that eliminate the cause of most ulcers, drugs that cost about $500 a year. Now, drug coverage under Medicare will allow seniors to replace more expensive surgeries and hospitalizations with less expensive prescription medicine.


More health care choices: As President Bush stated, "…when seniors have the ability to make choices, health care plans within Medicare will have to compete for their business by offering higher quality service [at lower cost]. For the seniors of America, more choices and more control will mean better health care. These are the kinds of health care options we give to the members of Congress and federal employees. What's good for members of Congress is also good for seniors.


New Health Savings Accounts: Effective January 1, 2004, Americans can set aside up to $4,500 every year, tax free, to save for medical expenses. Depending on your tax bracket, that means you'll save between 10 to 35 percent on any costs covered by money in your account. Every year, the money not spent would stay in the account and gain interest tax-free, just like an IRA. These accounts will be good for small business owners, and employees. More businesses can focus on covering workers for major medical problems, such as hospitalization for an injury or illness. At the same time, employees and their families will use these accounts to cover doctors visits, or lab tests, or other smaller costs. Some employers will contribute to employee health accounts. This will help more American families get the health care they need at the price they can afford.



Homeland Security, Border Enforcement & Immigration

1. *See Government Reform above. Under President Bush's leadership, America has made an unprecedented commitment to homeland security.
2. Has CONSTRUCTION in process on the first 10 ABM silos in Alaska so that America will have a defense against North Korean nukes. Has ordered national and theater ballistic missile defenses to be deployed by 2004.
3. Announced a 9.7% increase in government-wide homeland security funding in his FY 2005 budget, nearly tripling the FY 2001 levels (excluding the Department of Defense and Project BioShield).
4. Before DHS was created, there were inspectors from three different agencies of the Federal Government and Border Patrol officers protecting our borders. Through DHS, U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP) now consolidates all border activities into a single agency to create "one face at the border." This not only better secures the borders of the United States, but it also eliminates many of the inefficiencies that occurred under the old system. With over 18,000 CBP inspectors and 11,000 Border Patrol agents, CBP has 29,000 uniformed officers on our borders.
5. The Border Patrol is continuing installation of monitoring devices
along the borders to detect illegal activity.
6. Launched Operation Tarmac to investigate businesses and workers in the secure areas of domestic airports and ensure immigration law compliance. Since 9/11, DHS has audited 3,640 businesses, examined 259,037 employee records, arrested 1,030 unauthorized workers, and participated in the criminal indictment of 774 individuals.
7. Since September 11, 2001, the Coast Guard has conducted more than 124,000 port security patrols, 13,000 air patrols, boarded more than 92,000 vessels, interdicted over 14,000 individuals attempting to enter the United States illegally, and created and maintained more than 90 Maritime Security Zones.
8. Announced the Student and Exchange Visitor Information System (SEVIS), an internet-based system that is improving America's ability to track and monitor foreign students and exchange visitors. Over 870,000 students are registered in SEVIS. Of 285 completed field investigations, 71 aliens were arrested.
9. This week, the US-VISIT program began to digitally collect biometric identifiers to record the entry and exit of aliens who travel into the U.S on a visa. Together with the standard information, this new program will confirm compliance with visa and immigration policies.
10. Eliminated INS bureaucratic redundancies and lack of accountability.
11. Split the Immigration and Naturalization Service into two agencies: one to protect the border and interior, the other to deal with naturalization.
12. Signed the workplace verification bill to prevent hiring of illegal aliens.
13. Established a six-month deadline for processing immigration applications.
14. Information regarding nearly 100% of all containerized cargo is carefully screened by DHS before it arrives in the United States. Higher risk shipments are physically inspected for terrorist weapons and contraband prior to being released from the port of entry. Advanced technologies are being deployed to identify warning signs of chemical, biological, or radiological attacks. Since September 11, 2001, hundreds of thousands of first responders across America have been trained to recognize and respond to the effects of a WMD attack.


Judiciary & Tort Reform

1. Is urging federal liability reform to eliminate frivolous lawsuits.
2. Killed the liberal ABA's unconstitutional role in vetting federal judges. The Senate is supposed to advise and consent, not the ABA.
3. Is nominating strong, conservative judges to the judiciary.
4. Supports class action reform bill which limits lawyer fees so that more settlement money goes to victims.


Politics

1. His leadership resulted in Republican gains in the House and Senate, solidifying Republican control of both houses of Congress and the presidency.
2. Signed an EO enforcing the Supreme Court's Beck decision regarding union dues being used for political campaigns against individual's wishes.


Second Amendment

1. Ordered Attorney General Ashcroft to formally notify the Supreme Court that the OFFICIAL U.S. government position on the 2nd Amendment is that it supports INDIVIDUAL rights to own firearms, and is NOT a Leftist-imagined "collective" right.
2. Signed TWO bills into law that arm our pilots with handguns in the cockpit.
3. Currently pushing for full immunity from lawsuits for our national gun manufacturers.
4. *See Globalization & Internationalism.


Traditional Values, Compassion & Volunteerism

1. Endorses and promotes "The Responsibility Era." President Bush often speaks of the necessity of personal responsibility and civic volunteerism. He said, "In a compassionate society, people respect one another and take responsibility for the decisions they make in life. My hope is to change the culture from one that has said, if it feels good, do it; if you've got a problem, blame somebody else — to one in which every single American understands that he or she is responsible for the decisions that you make; you're responsible for loving your children with all your heart and all your soul; you're responsible for being involved with the quality of the education of your children; you're responsible for making sure the community in which you live is safe; you're responsible for loving your neighbor, just like you would like to be loved yourself."
2. Started the USA Freedom Corps, the most comprehensive clearinghouse of volunteer opportunities ever offered. For the first time in history, Americans can enter geographic information about where they want to get involved, such as state or zip code, as well as areas of interest ranging from education to the environment, and they can access volunteer opportunities offered by more than 50,000 organizations across the country and around the world.
3. Established the The White House Office and the Centers for the Faith-Based and Community Initiative — located in seven Federal agencies. The faith-based initiative supports the essential work of these important organizations. The goal is to make sure that grassroots leaders can compete on an equal footing for federal dollars, receive greater private support, and face fewer bureaucratic barriers. Work focuses on at-risk youth, ex-offenders, the homeless and hungry, substance abusers, those with HIV/AIDS, and welfare-to-work families.
4. The White House released a guidebook fully describing the Administration's belief that faith-based groups have a Constitutionally-protected right to maintain their religious identity through hiring — even when Federal funds are involved.
5. Issued an EO implementing the Supreme Court's Olmstead ruling, which requires moving disabled people from institutions to community-based facilities when possible.
6. Increased funding for low-interest loan programs to help people with disabilities purchase devices to assist them.
7. Revised the Department of Housing and Urban Development's Section 8 rent subsidies to disabled people, permitting them to use up to a year's worth of vouchers to finance down payments on homes. HUD has started pilot programs in 11 states.
8. Committed US funds to purchase medicine for millions of men, women and children now suffering with AIDS in Africa.
9. Heeding the words of our own Declaration of Independence, the president laid out the non-negotiable demands of human dignity for all people everywhere. On January 29, 2002, he said, "No nation owns these aspirations, and no nation is exempt from them. We have no intention of imposing our culture. But America will always stand firm for the non-negotiable demands of human dignity." As stated by the President, they are a virtual manifesto of conservative principles:

Equal Justice

Freedom of Speech

Limited Government Power

Private Property Rights

Religious Tolerance

Respect for Women

Rule of Law

 

You want to know why he didn't leave the classroom in a state of horror? Because of the fact he didn't want to alarm the children. Imagine being a kid, seeing the most FRIGHTENING IMAGE OF YOUR LIFE, what would you be thinking? Would it have been good for Bush to run out of the classroom in a panic, leaving the children to get worked up and think that something bad is going to happen? Of course not, get a clue Will..next time a terrorist attack happens (if ever) go into an elementary and run around panicked like we're all gonna die, see how good it effects the poor kids. Bush was calm because he had to be, not because he didnt care what happened to America. In a time of crisis, its important that a leader remains calm and brave for his people. It is the main reason Mayor Giulliani acted so calm, because he wanted to give his people strength. Acting like we're f*cked is going to throw the nation in a state of panic, and that my friend, is a BAD idea.

While the CIA has been very strange at times, why in god's name would they fire missles/crash their own planes into places that were FULL of people? There were thousands of people dead from this tragedy, and the proof comes from the many people who rallied to get help to find their missing loved ones. Bush might want to fight terrorism, but give me one reason why his government would spark it in the first place when it caused global panic, and the feeling that the world is slowly coming to an end? I surely hope you arent accusing our country of firing missles on our own landmarks, because that my friend, is a pretty deep accusation and is going to need more than one site to prove all of this. All that site suggests was that the people we accused of being involved were not, so therefore..who did it? I doubt America killed thousands of their own people. Bush is one of our most religious presidents to date, he would NEVER authorize such a pointless attack on our country like these sites are trying to suggest.

If we needed, oil..why did we DESTROY several oil depots in Iraq? You democrats have no proof that this war was ever about oil, and if he wanted it that bad..tell me why we struggled with gas prices in the past few months, when we apparentely had 'so much oil' from our invasion in Iraq. You wonder why we call you democrats so mindless, but then you dont look at the facts that go against your so called 'truth' that you try to spread to other people.

If President Clinton would've taken care of Saddam Hussein like he was planning to back in his presidency (he stated he was going to take whatever action neccesary to get him out of power), this war in Iraq would have never had to happen in the first place. Clinton wanted to go after Saddam long before Bush ever suggested it, and if he would've spent his time looking for Saddam instead of doing other things in the Oval Office, we might have been a better country right now. Clinton also had a shot at taking care of Osama Bin Laden, and he let him slip right through his fingers. Clinton could have done all the things Bush is being criticized for right now, but instead he left future presidents to take care of his dirty work.

Character assasination didn't work in 2000, and it's not going to work now. I have provided several sites that have said all the good Bush has done for this country, but I have hardly seen any proof of your claims except for a movie made by Michael Moore. When it comes to politics I'd rather see cold hard proof, then pages of anti-Bush propaganda that could be just as fake as those documents CBS was trying to pass around for the last month.

Click Here

 

I just had the longest rant going and I just lost it with one hit of the backspace button. Holy crap. You're lucky, Derek.

 

LOL.

Why not say "Sorry children, some important things have came up, I need to leave. Really sorry about this!" in a calm manner? I know any President would never run around screaming like that. You can get a clue. Bush could've been out of there immediately ordering all planes to the ground, military planes into the air to guard the skies. Did you know that after than 7-minute glare in the classroom while reading "My pet Goat", he went another 21 minutes wasting time at a photo-op? Then he flew around the states in cowardice instead of going back to Washington to prepare his next move. Absolute cowardice.

Only a few hundred people died within the pentagon when the missile hit the pentagon. Why did they do it? Their oil-motivated dreams. Once they invaded Iraq under the guise of liberating the Iraqi people, they installed the head of a major Iraqi oil company as prime minister. Funny how they guard the oil fields of Iraq while suciide bombers strike in their citites every day.

I've said it once, and I've said it again, what kind of pilot trained at a crappy Arizona flight school can fly a plane at 500 mph at about 2 feet above the ground into a two story building? Not someone at flight school, not even a regular american airlines pilot. This takes the skill of a trained military pilot. And how the hell did a Boeing 747 make such a small cylindrical hole in the wall of the pentagon?

And for your information, the oil is in Iraqi possession. The US can't just take the oil and claim it, the Iraqis have to give it to the US. So, the american military goes into Iraq, topples Saddam, and asks for what in return? Oil.

If Presidnet Bush would've taken care of the note he received that terrorists planned to strike in America using planes as bombs, you wouldn't of had a war to start in the first place.

Clinton waits for evidence before invading other countries and shamelessly killing tens of thousands of innocent people, unlike Bush the anticipator.

If there is a so-called heaven, I know one thing for sure; Bush won't be getting through the pearly-gates.

 

[/b][/quote]
Pearly gates? I thought there was a sign that said "Do Not Skate" :wth:

Sorry, just trying to lighten the mood. :whistle:

If you want to talk conspiracies, okay. Another evidential piece of information is the list of "so-called named & confirmed" passengers that were responsible for the attacks on 9/11 named by the government, who were never actually listed on any of those flights. In an arguementative point of view you could say that they changed their names for the flight, but the "terrorists" never got on the plane as seen from the photos released by the government. I'm not even going to go into the speculation of random people seeing identical dopplegangers of the "so-called terrorists" around the streets.

 

Lucky? Hardly. I was looking forward to hearing you say some of the conspiracy theories, that you beautiful democrats are so well known for.

Mark, your claim that WE killed hundreds of our own people just to get oil disgusts me, and I would love to see proof of these claims instead of just information you've gotten from people like Moore and John Kerry. That's one thing that you democrats have always been good at. You guys have always been able to come up with some of the WORST and most unimaginable conspiracy theories ever known to man.

And also, approaching the classroom debate from another angle..if you were the president would you want to just calmly walk out of the school like it was nothing? Hardly. It was important for Air Force One to come and get George Bush so he could be protected from any sort of attack as he was a target during this whole ordeal. You say he was cowardly for not returning to the White House, but come on...would you want him to be somewhere where he could clearly be attacked? I wouldn't want Cheney to take over, because evidence suggests that the whole idea to go into Iraq was mostly Cheney's idea, and that he gave Bush half of the ideas that led to him being so criticized. I don't find it odd that when the attacks happened Bush had the highest approval rating out of any president we've ever had. Even now, with the election looming..Bush is ahead in the polls. Why is that you ask? Because Kerry lies and doesn't stay firm on many topics.

How can someone who once voted for the Iraqi War, suddenly be against it? Easy, he shifted his beliefs in order to suit the American people. He's a stone cold liar, and I'd definetely not want someone who has been reported to want to raise our taxes and someone who voted for a 50 cent gas tax to run our country.

It is certainly a strange thing for no plane wreckage to exist at the Pentagon, but to accuse America of being behind it all? Blasphemy. That has to be the worst theory I have ever heard and that's why I'm thankful I'm not a democrat.

You're right Will, all the parties are doing are spreading sh*t about eachother, but after seeing the things that Kerry changed his mind about, it makes me feel very nervous about having him at the reigns.

Pay attention to what Kerry says in that commercial, he's talking about swift action being taken. What does that mean? War. He's just as bad as Bush if not worse.

 

I'm not a democrat, you fool. I'm Canadian. I'm merely anti-Republican who supports Democratic ideals.

And you are lucky. I basically chewed up everything you said a spat it out at you, maybe I'll get around to it tomorrow if I'm terribly bored. Arguing with you is pointless because you are not going to have one inch of impact on this election, so arguing with you over who you should vote for is stupid, because you're underaged.

I've given my proof. Where's your retort? There's a little thing called logic. I'll repeat that no arizona-plane-schooled pilot can fly a jumbo jet at 500mph into a two-story bulding with exact precision. No airline pilot can do that. It takes a highly skilled military pilot. And I'll also repeat that the entrance hole to the pentagon is not nearly big enough for a full sized jumbo jet to make.

Speaking of making up lies, what about those Swift Boat veteran commercials denouncing Kerry's saving of a man's life in Vietnam War? You know, the war Bush purposely avoided through requesting a high-end job in the Texas National Air Guard from the Lietenant Governor of Texas even after failing all his tests. The one his daddy helped him get. I've said that twice already and you've yet to acknowledge many of my main points. There's also the part where the man who was saved by John Kerry went public with a confirmation of Kerry's story, the event which got him three purple hearts.

The president of the United States has the best security personnel in the world. The difference between sitting still for seven minutes and getting out of the place makes a big difference. If I was going to shoot you, would you stand still toavoid the bullet? Or would you move? A moving target is much harder to hit, which is why Bush should've gotten out of there immeditaely and started co-ordinating with his associates. Being a still target liek that also puts the children at risk if terrorists were to attack the school. If Bush cared about then children, he would've left to draw attention away from them.

High approval ratings can be attributed to the American steoretype of standing by your President in times of need. They'll support their president through thick and thin after catastrophic events as a security blanket tactic.

Kerry isn't against the Iraq war. He is against going in there without UN support. You should also note that he voted against the $83 billion plea from Bush for extra cash to be spent in Iraq.

You won't have to worry about tax raises from Kerry if Bush gets back in. You know the oil you'll eventually wrongly receive from the Iraqis will not only bring economical gain, but it will be tainted with the blood of tens of thousands of americans, afghans, and iraqis.

The thing that's different between Kerry and Bush is that Bush went into Iraq with false intelligence in pursuit of oil against United Nations wishes. Kerry would've got the UN support, co-handed the country over to the Iraqis with the UN, after co-building a police force with the UN, and would not have been able to profit from desperate oil searches.

 

First of all, calm down. I might be a smartass in my debates but I don't act like I'm about ready to punch someone.

And I'm not one to point out mistakes, but I would like you to proofread your debate before posting it because I got a little confused at first when you were talking about Bush taking out himself. Also, Will I'm afraid you have your terms mixed up because a coupe is only when THAT nation's military takes the leader out of power. What you were suggesting we should have done is called a "puppet government" where a nation comes in and put their own government in without an election. Russia used to do that all the time. That is not what we did to begin with, we moved in..took out Saddam and then allowed the country to elect their own officials. Therefore I do not know what you're trying to say here Will.

Plus its quite possible for an oddity to happen with the pentagon, its very hard to believe with the scientific evidence but weird #### HAS happened in the past. And even if it wasn't a boeing, a plane still hit the Pentagon.

 

Well it seems that Kerry isn't the only one flip flopping on the issues

Besides, having Kerry in office, even if he is a flip flopper isn't a bad thing.

Take Iraq for example. Kerry might (probably not, but this is just an example) have assumed Iraq had WMDs, then when the UN inspectors didn't find any WMDs, he would have changed his mind (flip flopped if you want to call it that) and backed down and left Iraq alone. Bush on the other hand accused Iraq of having WMDs, when the UN inspectors said they didn't, he ignored them and went to a deadly war with them.

What's better? Someone who can change their position on an issue as new details are revealed or someone who completley ignores new details and fuucks everyone over anyways?