Discussion in 'Serious Chat' started by Justin, Jan 15, 2006.
For Canadians only.
Liberal, only because they've promised quite a bit for students...and for Canadian aviation
Oh my god I can't stress it anymore: LIBERALS.
Harper is Bush's next lapdog, and Canada's reputation as an open-minded and respected country would be demolished if he was to step into office.
Solely on Iraq:
"Outside of Quebec, I believe very strongly the silent majority of Canadians is strongly supportive [of the Iraq war]." -- Harper, April 4th 2003 (Source).
"In reading only the polls, indulging a juvenile and insecure anti-Americanism, this government has for the first time in our history left us outside our British and American allies in their time of need" ... "In the final analysis, disarming Iraq is necessary for the long-term security of the world, to the collective interest of our historic allies and, therefore, manifestly it is in the national interest of this country." -- Harper, March 2003
"The Canadian Alliance – the official Opposition in Parliament – supports the American and British position because we share their concerns, their worries about the future if Iraq is left unattended to, and their fundamental vision of civilization and human values." -- Harper, Wall Street Journal letter, March 28th, 2003
Surely voting for the Conservatives to get back at the Liberals will undermine our reputation of being an open-minded country. (Source)
Liberals, maily for the reasons Mark stated, but I've got mine too. However, I'm too tired to elaborate on the subject right now and I might go into an in-depth analysis of the political situation here in Canada tomorrow.
If the Tories win (which seems likely at the moment), I doubt they would send troops to Iraq. It would be political suicide. I don't really like the liberals, but they aren't nearly as bad as the conservatives.
I'm not saying they would at the moment.
It's the fact that Harper's willing to follow Bush wherever he goes in the world to declare war without even looking at the evidence (of which there was none). Just for the sake of preserving US-Canada relations, he'd put our country on the target list by helping the Americans in an unjustified war. He won't stand up to the Americans, he'll back down every time. We are not safe with Harper as PM.
Ugh, politics. *hangs self*
Although, that quote where Harper said that he strongly believes the silent majority of Canadians supports war bothers me, as I doubt it's true that the silent majority supports the Iraq war. =\
Personally, I would really like to vote for the NDP or the Green Party, but my riding is traditionally very Conservative and the previous Liberal, Paul DeVilliers, was very popular but just retired. With a new Liberal, its an extremely close call right now so I'll have to support them. As far as I'm concerned the Liberals have strayed too far into the right-wing with Paul Martin and even Chretien but having an ultra-right party like the Conservatives take over would be disastrous for this country. It would mean dismantling everything the country is known for.
To anyone who claims they're voting Liberal, you deserve a swift kick in the teeth. Are you deaf, blind and dumb? It's the moronic mindstate of voting for Liberals that got us this fucked up government we have now. Unless, of course, you like the people in charge of your country fucking around $250 million dollars so in the end, it goes into their pockets. Expand your mind a little, there are more parties than Conservative and Liberal. Don't like conservative? Then vote something smaller. I'll agree, the Conservatives don't look too promising, but I'll gouge my eyes out with a fork before I vote Liberal.
I wouldn't vote liberal because with every scandals falling on their head, I couldn't in my right mind trust them.
I wouldn't vote conservative because they go against everything I believe in (Same sex wedding for instance)
I wouldn't go NDP because Layton has no leadership at all.
I wouldn't vote Bloc because we all know that we will never separate from Canada. Get over it.
So I guess I'd vote Green or just cancel my vote.
i hate that "LIBERALS ARE CORRUPT" commercial. its so annoying
I believe it's you who deserves a "swift kick in the teeth" for not respecting the choices of others.
If you had any knowledge of the situation in hand, the Gomery Report completely exonerated the current Liberal government, including Prime Minister Martin, of any misconduct or wrongdoings. This happened during the days of Chretien, so why would you punish Martin and the people in his party who had nothing to do with the sponsorship scandal in the first place? That's like Americans refusing to vote Republican after Watergate under Nixon. Did that happen? No. And Canadians have a reputation of being more forgiving!
Surely you haven't been brainwashed by the Conservatives constant shouting of the word "corruption" in their commercials. Do you realize why they're doing that? Because other than casting doubt on the Liberals, they have nothing on the Liberals!
If you want Canada to follow the US into countries like Iraq, vote Conservative.
If you want Canada to neglect the Kyoto Protocol and stop caring about our environment, vote Conservative.
If you want to forget that it was the Liberals who made this country an economic success, bringing in 8 straight record budgets, vote Conservative.
If you want the women's right to choose revoked, vote Conservative.
If you're against gay marraige, vote Conservative.
If you're willing to trust Steven Harper, vote Conservative.
Being a teenager yourself, you've so quickly forgotten that it's the Liberals that have made this country such a successful and respected country while you've been growing up. Economic prosperity. Safety and security. Don't you want that for your children?
So don't let something that happened in a previous administration deterr you from voting Liberal.
By throwing away a vote to the Green Party and letting the Conservatives gain on the Liberals like this, it goes against what the Green Party stands for. You'll be giving the one party that does not care about it's country's environment (the Conservatives) the green light to join the Americans and North Korea on the sidelines while 187 other United Nations countries are a part of the most important environmentally-concious document of our century.
So quickly that people forget. Everyone's too busy trying to punish the Liberal government to look at their best options instead of going for second fiddle.
Mark, I agree with everything you said except that Paul Martin had nothing to do with the sponsorship scandal. He was the finance minister at the time, and he should know the most about it. I think. It doesn't matter really. A couple of hundred million dollars is peanuts in our great nation. It means practically nothing and if you look at what the Libs have done in the long run, that small amount is more than made up for. But otherwise, yes, Canada as a nation wouldn't be the same without the Liberals.
There's a reason why the Libs are red and white, while the conservatives are red, white, and blue.
Yes, but the sponsorship program had a real purpose, it was just abused by Liberal party members in Quebec during Chretien's reign. It actually had a real fundamental purpose. Martin didn't know and couldn't have known it was being misused. That's what was found in the independant inquiry by Gomery.
And on top of that Harper still continued injecting the idea of Liberal corruption? Ridiculous. But oh well. Even if Harper wins, he won't last six months before getting under pressure.
In Canada, do liberal and conservative mean the same thing they do as they do in the US? If so, liberal all the way
Pretty much. But, you know, more open-minded than their counterparts in the US.
Firstly, I never said I liked Conservative. Secondly, we're the same age, in fact, if we get down to brass tax, I'm older than you, so the line about me being a teenager just confuses the fuck out of me.
I'm not brainwashed, but I do personally think that the Liberals are corrupt. The conservatives have never had an investigation into a scandal...
Then again I don't like the Conservatives anyway. They're trying to make women's rights null, like making abortion illegal, and covering it up with fancified shit like lowering GST - that's bullshit.
You're saying I'm letting the Conservatives get one up on the Liberals by voting Green? I'm voting green, not Conservative. Are you so scared about the Conservatives winning, so you'll do anything in here to defend yourself for fear your favorite party won't win.
The green party may not win, but every vote encourages them to go on, and care about the environment. Don't you want the environment to be in a good state for your children? "Don't you want that for your children?"
It sounds to me like you're the one being brainwashed by the media. Did you watch the debates? Paul Martin was left speechless and unorderly every time someone from an opposing party brought forth an issue. That's not someone I want to be running my country.
I know you're the same age, but I'm just saying that as a teenager you should look at the big picture, what they've done for you. I've certainly realized that they've done alot of great things for this country, and I'm appreciating it as a youth.
Look, in this election, you've got two choices. You're either with or against the Conservatives. I say this because they and the Liberals are the only two parties who have the ability to form a government. Sad to say, yes. But voting Green only helps the Conservatives gain ground on the Liberals.
And considering that the Conservatives are against everything the Green Party stands for, that's like a wasted vote. If anything, the NDP and Liberals most closely share the values of the Green Party. By voting for either of them, you're voting vicariously for the Green Party because they'll listen to what the Greens have to say. Voting directly for the Green Party means one less vote for a party that will actually make a difference (Liberals), and one vote more for a party that will shun the Greens values (Conservatives).
You say the Liberals are corrupt, yet you provide no proof. I have plenty of proof in an independantly run inquiry run by Justice Gomery saying otherwise. Where's your proof? Or are you buying into, again being brainwashed by, Conservative propoghanda tailored to try and capitalize off of lies? This is a smokescreen for a neo-conservative, Bush-esque agenda.
How am I being brainwashed by the media? You provide no basis. I watched the debates, including the French ones, and Martin was being attacked from all angles on the sponsorship scandal with lies. It was a total gang-up. And Martin wasn't speechless on numerous accounts, he was actually the most articulate and professional one (with props to Layton as well) out of the group. I can guarantee that weasel Steven Harper wouldn't of handled it nearly as good as Martin did.
It's a two party race, face it. Voting outside of those two parties will just help one party while hurting the other. By voting Green, you're voting against the Liberals, a party much more likely to listen to the Greens than the Conservatives will. I'd suggest picking the lesser of two evils.
Oh, and the Tories have been investigated for scandal before. In 1985, Tory Fisheries Minister John Fraser overturned an order by food inspectors to recall a million cans of spoiled StarKist Tuna that inspectors said wasn't even fit to be sold as cat food. He ordered the million cans released to the public. The previous Liberal government, fiddled around with money, but this previous Tory administration nearly started a health crisis! Source
Now, you're saying this has nothing to do with the current Conservatives, and I agree. But neither does the actions of the previous Liberal administration have anything to do with the current Liberals. Ministers were let go and everyone in the party was exonerated of any wrongdoing, that including the Prime Minister.
But hey, it's your country.
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