An Old Arguement, (In Response to Ben's Thread)

Discussion in 'Feedback & FAQ' started by Jesse, Aug 25, 2011.

  1. #1
    Jesse

    Jesse Out of the abyss. LPA Über VIP

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    Expanding on Benjamin's thread. Which I initially agree with but disagree where the focus should be.

    I think that we should try to get old members and new members back here, and that includes things that have nothing to do with Linkin Park as old members have outgrown them and new threads that deal with the band in more creative ways.

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    Here's a fair warning. I am about to go on a quite long tangent/rant here. One that I've been adamant about for a long time.

    For a simple example of what I talk about below, view the image at the end of my post.

    Here goes:

    I sincerely believe that if there were science/technology and Health sub-forums in Serious Chat then The Linkin Park Association would gain a lot more activity. I've seen this evidenced by too many sites to just ignore it and agree with the current LPA view point on this matter. And quite frankly, I believe you're handling it wrong, no offense.

    One example is the Official Health - Exercise thread, I reiterate this time and time again but you can't just add one thread for health topics, as some things will overshadow others. It needs to be broken down, so that people can feel that they have room to post about what they are currently interested in or what questions they have about things.

    A health sub-forum could include threads such as Favorite types of Foods, Recipes, Ways to relieve stress, Sexuality, Disease awareness and so many other potentially informative posts.

    To clarify, when I say sexuality I'm not asking for an R18 or a pornography thread, I'm talking about an educational/curiosity/informative thread, one that can bring solace to those who are currently going through life altering situations such as pregnancies, and questioning of what sexual role they feel they relate to, these are important topics because in my honest and humble opinion sexuality in America is too fucked up. It's where people can condone graphic images of decapitation, violence racism, discrimination and all sorts of other awful things, only to turn around and then shun anything that has any slightly dressy sexuality associated with it.

    Why do you think this is? It's because people are misinformed, they thrust aside the very natures that we are all born with and thus they will easily object to anything that seems different. People need to learn about different sexualities such as Straight, Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual, Trans(sexual/gender)s and Pansexuals/Pomosexuals and they need a place to ask questions and not be looked down upon, they need to learn about safety measures and how their own bodies work, only then will we ever have a chance to completely rid of the these stigmas and oppressions that are so common, not only in America but other countries as well.

    And then, I also don't see the need for a thread that could easily be a sub-forum in Linkin Park chat, and that is Keaton's very amazing game LPA-Man and the Mising phoenix. Yes, an honored and well loved LPA member made the game, but take a look in Linkin Park chat and you will see that others have made game threads as well, does a graphical interface warrant a whole new forum? I don't think that it should, sure it should be stickied and posted as News (as it was and did warrant) but giving it its own special forum (one that is hardly ever used btw) just clutters up the layout and takes away from the essential things that you could add in its place.

    And if you think that I am being too political, I can argue that since Linkin Park have begun descending more and more into a political band (I have evidence of this, Their talks with the UN, and other government activities, their stance on making more political music, etc) that the LPA as a fan site should also harbor to LP's interest which recently includes politics.
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    [​IMG]

    Thoughts?
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2011
  2. #2
    Mark

    Mark Canadian Beauty LPA Administrator

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    I agree with all your ideas to condense the forums.

    I am hesitant, however, to agree to adding new sub-forums to Serious Chat for the simple fact that it disperses activity away from the main SC board. I do not see why you can't have many of the threads you suggested placed in SC instead of new sub-forums. It would really make SC look like a ghost town, and I feel there wouldn't be enough material to discuss for these sub-forums you suggested to survive.

    Perhaps the real issue here is the fact we condense common threads into "official" threads in SC, which turns these "official" threads into incredibly long threads (example: GSYWTLO) where posts get lost in the shuffle and discussion is stifled. If we started to break away from this "all-encompassing thread" idea and be more lenient about people posting individual threads for personal advice and narrower subjects, would this not accomplish the same thing but without dispersing the discussion into separate areas? We could also broaden the description for the forum to include sexuality, health etc, which would give people more of an idea of what can be discussed in SC. It could potentially liven up SC.
     
  3. #3
    travz21

    travz21 Muscle Museum LPA Super Member

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    I agree. I don't even want to talk about Linkin Park unless something significant is happening, which happens about 5 times a year. I want to talk about current events, technology, sports, music in general, etc. Just stuff people can talk about. I don't come here to mainly talk about LP, I come here to have various conversations that you can't get in the real world.
     
  4. #4
    Jesse

    Jesse Out of the abyss. LPA Über VIP

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    I can somewhat agree with this, but as I see it right now, if you make a thread that might be somewhat related to another thread, a lot of people would ask why it couldn't be in the same thread. So it's generally looked down upon. I think that that process limits discussion and is a part of the problem. If we could discuss things more openly that relate to but aren't exclusive to old threads in new threads it would greatly reduce the need for separate sub-forums.

    But my main support for sub-forums is, I've seen them work countless times, and they're neater. Yes, it may appear as if it's a ghost land in the standard SC forum but over all I believe that there would be more posts and discussion and isn't that the goal? The look shouldn't matter it should be the activity that matters.
     
  5. #5
    Derek

    Derek LPAssociation.com Administrator LPA Administrator

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    I also agree our forums need to be condensed, and the way you displayed them might even be the way to go. These are very smart suggestions Jesse, and I really appreciate you coming forward with them. Feedback & FAQ is exactly for things like this, and people need to feel comfortable submitting suggestions to the site. We encourage threads like this and we thank you for being a leader and paving the way. Hopefully others feel comfortable voicing their opinions now too :).

    As for the suggested subforums I'm semi on the fence. A big part of me feels we must break away from the "all encompassing thread" mentality (as Mark put it) because it actually cheapens Serious Chat. I do agree that we need to split things up into their own threads as it could mean an explosion of activity for SC. Me and Mark both agree with you there. Only thing that makes me skeptical about the separate forums is that I'm afraid if we split things up too much it might actually give the impression of LESS activity if certain boards have say only...10 topics in them. I fear that might make people post less, but I could be wrong. Still, it's an interesting proposal and one worth debating further. It would certainly shake things up like never before here.
     
  6. #6
    Jesse

    Jesse Out of the abyss. LPA Über VIP

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    Yes, I agree that it may appear like there is less activity but isn't more activity the main goal? It's like, don't judge a book by it's cover or the size of it, because 1. The Cover is deceiving and 2. the pages of the book may have very small text, meaning there is more than what appears to be in a thin book. I just don't think it's a big deal, imo.

    But anyway, I don't think the standard forum of SC would be harmed much as it would give people a place to rant about personal life discussions, which could take up a significant amount of space.

    In any case, maybe there should be a Trial and Error experiment where you can change things and test it out for 30 days and have members vote on weather it should stay or if it should go and if people are displeased have it revert back to how it was. (is there a way to set a forum to automatically revert to a past design in a certain period of elapsed time? :lol:)

    Edit: Another reason for sub forums regarding health and sexuality, someone may be too shy to post it out in the open, but if there is a place for them to openly discuss it, a specific place then I think they're most likely to post about it due to being more comfortable.
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2011
  7. #7
    Derek

    Derek LPAssociation.com Administrator LPA Administrator

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    No there's no setting like that :lol:. It'd have to take some actual big work on our part to get everything reorganized, but if it's something that makes activity explode in that forum then it's worth the frustration.

    Coincidentally the staff are currently discussing other suggestions recently posted in FB&FAQ..so we'll definitely consider this and come back with why we agree/don't agree with it pretty soon. Thanks for taking time out to write this post. Your eagerness to help these boards is very appreciated.
     
  8. #8
    Benjamin

    Benjamin LPA team LPA Super VIP

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    First off I want to say that I completely agree with condensing the forums. Except while your at it get rid of On Stage and side projects. The inactivity in those places is almost humorous. Just have one thread where we talk about everything LP (general, side projects, live).

    But now I've got something to say:

    I think some people might be judging the relevance of Linkin Park based on their personal views of the band. This place is unique in the sense that the people who want to talk about Linkin Park the most aren't the people with 1000's of posts who come here every day. Actually, that makes this place one of the better forums you'll join. However, what is happening, in my eyes, is that the overall traffic of the forums is suffering because of it. At least in between album cycles.

    I'm trying to think how many overall "regular posters" are here right now. Maybe 20? 30? I'll go conservative and say 30. Maybe that number goes up a bit depending on your definition of a regular poster. In any case, I think some people here are forgetting the obvious fact that regular posters are a significant minority on these boards. And I'm a firm believer that the majority of the members (the not regular posters) are people who log into the Linkin Park Association to talk about Linkin Park. Like I've said before, if you look at Newbie Camp at the moment you won't find many of the people who've signed up in the past months to still be here. They obviously had every intention of posting here or else they wouldn't go out out of their way to introduce themselves. Maybe it's my crazy theory, but I'm willing to bet that most of them stopped coming on because they didn't see much discussion about Linkin Park. I think that because if someone signed up for a site called "The Linkin Park Association", they would want to talk about Linkin Park. They wouldn't want to talk about Current events, politics, exercise tips, movies, games, something in random chat, ect.

    I guess what I'm trying to focus in on is how to get the number of regular posters up. I believe if you get the Linkin Park fans to stay on longer by generating more LP related threads, the odds will go up that they'll grow fond of the place and stick around longer. And let me stress that I've never said to ignore the rest of the forum. By all means, let's make Serious chat and Other music more busy. Let's just not ignore LP chat either. IMO Jesse's plan is basically how to make the place more interesting for regular posters. Which obviously would be great. But I don't think it'll improve traffic at all really.

    To make a long story way fucking shorter, let's just create a lot more threads in every forum :lol:.

    Edit: And personally I don't think any kind of expansion of Serious chat would be a good idea at all.
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2011
  9. #9
    Vriska

    Vriska Wiki Staff LPA VIP

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    Like I said in the other thread, it has been my observation in my past experiences that adding subforums has the overall effect of decreasing the amount of new posts in both the new forum and its parent forum. I think a subforum should only be considered if its parent forum has so much traffic that new threads are pushed to off the front page within a matter of minutes.

    However, I agree that a singular, all-encompassing thread on a broad topic creates the opposite problem. I think the right thing to do is in the middle ground. Make new threads on narrower topics, but no new subforums.




    Alternate ideas: I have also observed that people tend to stick to their cliques. People are often shy about coming into a new social domain and seeing established regulars.

    Perhaps a subforum dedicated to "clans" are in order? A clan is a thread dedicated to a clique of people, or people with similar interests, that they can postwhore in. It's sort of like a Facebook group except these have existed since before facebook. The difference between a clan and a random thread is that a clan keeps tabs of its members and there's no topic to stay on. it's just socialization, but it can be a point of entry for people too shy to jump immediately into posting with regulars. Or for people who don't like regulars >_>. The Mike Shinoda Clan started as one of these. I've seen people who've only posted in clans and avoided the main general chat places.
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2011
  10. #10
    Gloomy Mushroom

    Gloomy Mushroom Absolute Zero LPA Super VIP

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    It's amazing to see how many threads Benjamin's thread has sparked off :lol:
     
  11. #11
    Mark

    Mark Canadian Beauty LPA Administrator

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    When we decided to create the rules for these forums we took a look at the LPMB and LPUMB and identified things we hated about those places. One was the infestation of teenies on both forums (which explains our hardline stance against them), another was the amount of mindless post-whoring that was going on, and the last one was clans. I fear that clans would only exacerbate the clique-y behaviour exemplified by some posters and lead to a decrease in activity elsewhere on the forums. We're also trying to encourage meaningful discussion on the forums, instead of additional random post-whoring. That sort of chatty stuff can be kept to the shoutbox.

    Thank you for your suggestion, but I can confidently say that we will never consider a clans for the LPA.
     
  12. #12
    Dean

    Dean LPA Super Member LPA Addict

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    There already is a technology board... I would probably be open to it being a science board as well though.

    I agree with the idea that people should just post a separate thread if they want advice, instead of using one thread. Or for there to be a thread for advice on relationships and stuff, then maybe a thread for advice on education and jobs and things, and other threads for other things.

    That would also probably mean less posts where people are just venting without really looking for advice and I know how much some people don't like those.
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2011
  13. #13
    Jesse

    Jesse Out of the abyss. LPA Über VIP

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    Maybe the Technology thread could be condensed into another part of a forum.

    I,e Making it a Science and Technology and I think that it could be located underneath serious chat and not all the way down because often times science and technology is serious.
     
  14. #14
    Derek

    Derek LPAssociation.com Administrator LPA Administrator

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    The issue with making MORE forums is that we recently just condensed the boards/reordered things about two months ago because some forums had a lot less activity than others. Going back to seperate forums again would mean that we completely went against everything we already learned which is why we should (if anything) be condensing more instead of expanding. I'm talking changing the description of Serious Chat to include everything serious/health/advice related, and possibly renaming the tech forum to Science And Technology to promote more science talk. Having one forum with a crapload of posts looks a lot better than 3 forums with hardly any posts. Having a busier looking forum will be a lot more inviting than a slow one.
     
  15. #15
    Dean

    Dean LPA Super Member LPA Addict

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    That's what I'd go with, just make a broader criteria for what you can post in those two boards.
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2011
  16. #16
    Jesse

    Jesse Out of the abyss. LPA Über VIP

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    This would be okay, but still, I think that the technology forum should be underneath the serious chat forum instead of being halfway down the screen.
     
  17. #17
    Mark

    Mark Canadian Beauty LPA Administrator

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    I don't know if it's just me but I don't see "Technology" and think "Serious Chat". That's more of a troubleshooting/information source than a heavy conversation forum.
     
  18. #18
    Benjamin

    Benjamin LPA team LPA Super VIP

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    And just to add to the forum rearrangement proposals, I think Other Music should be right under newbie camp.
     
  19. #19
    Derek

    Derek LPAssociation.com Administrator LPA Administrator

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    Do you have a specific reasoning for it being right under there? From our experience most newbies either post in News, Newbie Camp or Random Chat first.
     
  20. #20
    Benjamin

    Benjamin LPA team LPA Super VIP

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    Because I would think that people in general coming to this place would want to talk about other music if not Linkin Park.
     

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