About suicide...

Discussion in 'Serious Chat' started by ChooseYourPoison, Dec 4, 2005.

  1. #1
    ChooseYourPoison

    ChooseYourPoison nymphetamine

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    well, I was talking to my friend today and I guess I was talking him out of suicide and he came up with some pretty interesting and debateable points that made me think a little.

    ************ (3:31:15 AM) : but the problem isn't depression, or hating my life, or any of that shit, it's just that I don't see much, if any point in it. I really don't believe in a god, therefore, when life gets snuffed out, the person gets snuffed out, all their memories, their entireity is erased. And eventually, everyone will probably die, and everybody's memory of that person dies, and then there remains no point for that person ever existing, and it doesn't matter if there was, because that person can't appreciate it because he doesn't exist as anything more than compost and decaying organic matter"

    And that really got me thinking about people's reasonings behind suicide. I'm not saying I'm going to become suicidal or anything, I just was wondering what thoughts were directed to something like this and I certainly don't encourage suicide, but it really did get me thinking.

    But if his theory is true, it might be nice for the person to atleast have some memory of you rather than nothing at all, because if that's true then why is there birth to begin with? Why not just have nuclear hollocaust and not let anyone concieve at all?
     
  2. #2
    Intergalactic Christ

    Intergalactic Christ Blood On Ice LPA VIP

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    I'd rather live and be depressed than never have lived at all.

    I think you should change your friends path of thought: make him see how wonderful and mysterious it is that we are alive today, get him into the amazing-ness of science, if he already isn't. Tell him not to keep focusing on the thoughts he's having, because what happens in regards to living and then ceasing to exist is... completely normal. It's happened on this planet for millions of years. It is part of animal and human nature to live, examples are knowing how to suck from birth, instincts. Your friend is looking at it all the wrong way, seeing the wonder of nature as a bad thing, rather than a good thing Edit: and I'd be more than willing to chat to your friend if you/he wants

    Also, I don't agree with his "life gets snuffed out... no point for that person ever existing." People might be forgotton, but the blood of their children, and their childrens children, etc, will be on earth for generations. Without people who lived hundreds or thousands of years ago, we wouldn't have some of the inventions that we have today, which our lives benefit from.

    I'm a bit all over the place here, I know. I'm having one of my I-can't-put-thoughts-to-words days :)
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2005
  3. #3
    Ether

    Ether Well-Known Member

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    Your friend does bring up some very good points. I have thought of suicide on various occasions, that was until I started studying philosophy. Tell your friend to look into a theory called Existentialism under the following philosophers...Jean-Paul Sartre and Friedrich Neitzsche. He might find that rather interesting.

    In brief it is basically the theory that existence preceeds essence. Thus there is no common human nature. We are born and it is through our actions that we form our morals and create ourselves. Sartre also asserts that "In fashioning myself I fashion man" - by this he means that we have to understand that our actions will be followed by others. Example: If I was to punch you right now because you verbally abused me, then I am effectively saying that it is the right thing for others to do...under the exact same circumstances. There is a lot more detail but it will probably bore you, if not let me know and I'll continue in a later post.

    Anyway...because we are actually 'role models' through our actions, does this not give our life meaning? May not be the meaning your friend is after, but it is still a meaning to a life.

    On the topic of memories. People are indeed remembered. They may not be thought about every day but their memories live on. That's how we learn, from their mistakes and the things they did right. From our memories of them.
     
  4. #4
    Louis

    Louis Message me if you need to talk. We love you all. LPA Team

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    Your friend does bring up some good points.

    Well, people usually commit suicide on their own morals. They think it's the right thing to do. They think that there's nothing to be happy about, and that they don't want to be sad the rest of their lives, so their thought is that it's the right thing to kill themselves.

    When somebody dies, they always remain in the minds of people that knew them. Sometimes, the memory is passed on, or the memory is gone when the people with the memory pass away. There is no one in this world who has a pointless existence. But then again, there's no reason. A person's entirety is not completely erased when he or she passes.

    Nobody can expect to find a meaning to life soon enough for them to understand and contemplate it. There might not necessarily be a meaning to our own life, but our life has meaning to others. And when a person denies all of that, it becomes a fact to them. They consider it in their morals of right, and wrong. Therefore, they consider suicide, and attempt it.

    A person being depressed is not necessarily because of events or certain feelings. The depressing feelings a person gets is usually through the illness itself in the mind. The whole chemical imbalance that you hear about ever so often is commonly the reason. But others think that they're depressed because of events. And it is temporary, usually. But not short enough for them to consider that it's not worth it. That's what is so unfortunate about suicide.

    Someone's existence always lives on through memory. Their entirety is never completely erased. That's how we learn.
     
  5. #5
    Dean

    Dean LPA Super Member LPA Addict

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    I could say that you should live for the moment for almost exactly the same reasons.
     
  6. #6
    rosanna

    rosanna Well-Known Member

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    dude. i was talking to my best friend and we were in the middle of getting high, which sparked this convo, and we were talking about dead people. i am deathly afraid of dead people and he asked me why and i explained that it is because you are dead and you are nothing and don't exist, i am not scared of zombies or vampires or anything like that i would rather deal with them anyway.

    the point of this is that i have been incrediby suicidal over the past few weeks. i asked chris (who is my best friend), what is the point of living if you only end up being nonexistent in the ground?

    he told me to get a religion, that that is the reason why people have them. i am atheist, but right then i almost wasn't. idk i just thought it was an incredibly deep thing to say.

    i'm still atheist, although i pray to my dead father sometimes. and i have been falling apart lately so suicide is like first and foremost in my mind lately. i don't know.
     
  7. #7
    Ether

    Ether Well-Known Member

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    Take a look at Epicurus's view.

    'Do not fear death for it is only the absence of sensation'.

    He asserts that when we are alive we do not suffer death and when we are dead we feel nothing. Thus we should not worry about death itself. It is only the anticipation of death that causes humans pain. The wise man doesnt not fear death but instead appriciates life because we are here for a GOOD time not a LONG time. Maybe you should tell your friend to appriciate what they have at this moment, for if they take their own life, it might be that they have nothing.

    '...when we are, death is not come and when death is come, we are not'

    So I suppose the only thing to fear is fear itself.

    This is only one theory though. Maybe a religion might help, myself I just turn to philosophy :D
     
  8. #8
    rosanna

    rosanna Well-Known Member

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    the reason why i fear death is because it is the absence of sensation. call me crazy but i don't know what that feels like, and i am not sure i want to know. doesn't matter i am going to feel like that eventually.

    what i don't understand is how i can sit there and be scared of death but want to die. nvm i just got it. life is much more painful and i would rather put up with nothing than constantly negative things.
     
  9. #9
    Ether

    Ether Well-Known Member

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    Why worry about something that you cant feel. You will have absoulutely no knowledge of what is happening (assuming Epicurus is right).
     
  10. #10
    rosanna

    rosanna Well-Known Member

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    its the not knowing that's getting to me. i would rather know what it is like.
     
  11. #11
    Ether

    Ether Well-Known Member

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    Ok, but why stress over it and let it cause your demise. Maybe you'll know, maybe you wont. I say like many others (and I have been in your position) find something you love and keep doing it. Take your mind of the things that cause your sadness for you wont enjoy your life. If you have any problems though or you just wanna talk, PM me...I'm here to listen and maybe even help if I can :)
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2005

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