Hey everyone, My girlfriend has a project on wether (sp?) "Under God" should be taken out of the pledge of alliegance. I have tried finding a few links and so far nothing too helpful, i was wondering what your guys's thoughts on the subject and are there any links with alot of information that could be helpful? Thanks everyone!
*yawn* Enough of wether or not it should it happen. How about why or why not it can't happen? This topic has been driven into the ground.
$5 says this thread turns into an uptight religious people vs atheists fight by page two. I'll simply say "Yes, I think it should be taken out. Religion and government should be two totally seperate things."
It should be taken out, and it should have never been there in the first place. The country was founded on the basis of the separation of the church and the state, which is the entire reason the pilgrims came to America in the first place. To be forced to say "under God" in the pledge, or even to be fored to swear on the Bible in court, goes against what the nation's founding fathers wanted. Now, I know it doesn't say anything about it in the constitution, but they didn't want the church and the state to become one, but it seems that that's what's happening.
Well, though I agree, this nation was not founded under those ideals, rather, our society has developed into them. By viewing at a copy of the Declaration of Independance, you can clearly see from the preamble and the "New Theory of Government" intro, that they mention God and a Divine Providence, which we don't believe should be mixed with government today. By "all men are created equal", they really ment white, property owning, religious men. But again, because of our developing society, it changed. People didn't come to this nation to separate church and government entirely, they primarily came so that they didn't have to pay taxes to a certain church they didn't follow. They came to America to mix their own religion with their own simple form of government. Persecution and discrimination still occured for many of those early years, until movements like the Toleration Act were passed, AGAIN, as our society developed. That being said, I do think it should be taken out because of our developing society. I think we've reached the point where, more than ever, our government should show religious impartiality.
It was a never an issue before, why suddenly an issue now? People just like to make a big deal out of anything they can get their fingers on. Just fucking leave. Don't like it? Don't say "God" when you recite the pledge. Hell, don't even say it.
Again, our society is constantly evolving. Just because it was never an issue before, doesn't mean it shouldn't be one now. Slavery was never an issue either before someone spoke out against it.
Again, our society is constantly evolving. Just because it was never an issue before, doesn't mean it shouldn't be one now. Slavery was never an issue either before someone spoke out against it. [/b][/quote] How are you gonna compare slavery to a word in a pledge? People are just easily sculped by anything the media throws at them. Parents never cared before but as soon as someone brings it up, they go, "oh yeah, you're right -- take it out! LOL!"
Where in the world did he compare it? He said that slavery was never an issue until someone spoke out against it, just like the phrase "under God" in the pledge. It was an example. Don't put words into other people's mouths.
How are you gonna compare slavery to a word in a pledge? People are just easily sculped by anything the media throws at them. Parents never cared before but as soon as someone brings it up, they go, "oh yeah, you're right -- take it out! LOL!" [/b][/quote] Because the word CAN be interpreted as completely contradicting to the constitution, where the government says it shall not raise up, nor put down another religion. Although this was not always (actually, hardly) followed through our history, people who want to live to that ideal are actually trying to do something about it. And you missed the principle I brought up about slavery. I never said the issues themselves were similar at all, but they never BECAME issues until someone spoke out against it.
Because the word CAN be interpreted as completely contradicting to the constitution, where the government says it shall not raise up, nor put down another religion. Although this was not always (actually, hardly) followed through our history, people who want to live to that ideal are actually trying to do something about it. And you missed the principle I brought up about slavery. I never said the issues themselves were similar at all, but they never BECAME issues until someone spoke out against it. [/b][/quote] I don't see why it needs to be taken out and be ruined for the rest of us who have no problem with it all. Like I said: just don't say "God" or don't recite the entire pledge.
I don't see why it needs to stay and ruin it for athiests who do have a problem with it. They can take it out and you can still say under god when you recite the pledge
Sure, why not. I don't really care if 'Under God' is taken out or not. We don't say the Pledge at my school, so I'm not affected by it. And I personally don't care anymore. I figure if they wanted 'Under God' to be in the Pledge when they first created it, then if it's a problem now, then why didn't people complain then? I just think it's people wanting to start shit. And please, don't argue with my opinion. My opinion might be misinformed, but it's still my opinion, and I like it the way it is, since this matter isn't Life or Death, unlike the President situation.
It was never an issue before because it wasn't even included in the pledge until the 50s. Now people are saying "Do we really still need this? Did we ever?" From CBS News: In 1954, the words "under God" were added, after a campaign by the Knights of Columbus, a Catholic men's service organization, and other religious leaders who sermonized that the pledge needed to be distinguished from similar orations used by "godless communists." The prospect of atomic war between world superpowers so moved President Dwight D. Eisenhower that he directed Congress to add the two small but controversial words. "From this day forward, the millions of our school children will daily proclaim in every city and town, every village and every rural school house, the dedication of our nation and our people to the Almighty," Eisenhower wrote at the time.
It was never an issue before because it wasn't even included in the pledge until the 50s. Now people are saying "Do we really still need this? Did we ever?" From CBS News: In 1954, the words "under God" were added, after a campaign by the Knights of Columbus, a Catholic men's service organization, and other religious leaders who sermonized that the pledge needed to be distinguished from similar orations used by "godless communists." The prospect of atomic war between world superpowers so moved President Dwight D. Eisenhower that he directed Congress to add the two small but controversial words. "From this day forward, the millions of our school children will daily proclaim in every city and town, every village and every rural school house, the dedication of our nation and our people to the Almighty," Eisenhower wrote at the time. [/b][/quote] It's been fine for 50 years, we don't need another change. What's the big deal? Just don't recite it.
Yes we do need another change. If things didn't change, black people would still be slaves, women wouldn't have half as many rights as men and kids would not be in school and working to support their family instead.
i think not only should "under god" be taken out of the pledge, i believe the ceremony should not have to be recited it schools. i just transfered to a different 4th period and she told me to stand for the pledge, so i wrote her a 2 page letter on why i shouldnt. if we didnt have to do this shit in class things like this wouldnt happen. this is a little section of what i wrote about the "under god" part: Second, I am an atheist and I really have a problem with the fact that “under God” is in the pledge of allegiance. Religion is supposed to be kept out of school, but it is right here in the pledge. Most religious people do not believe it is a big deal when in reality, it is. If the pledge said evolution is why we are here, I am sure the Pledge of Allegiance would have been taken out a long time ago. This country is corrupted with religion and how it is the right way to go, and if anyone does not believe in god, then they are automatically ignorant, misinformed, hopeless, evil, confused, or any other things such as those.
Sometimes that's not an option. During the times I were in public school and had to recite the Pledge, I was forced to say the entire pledge. Had I not, I was given detention or was sent to the principle for insabortination (sp). If my kids are going to be punished for having beliefs that aren't in the pledge, then I think it's not needed. If in fact there is nothing wrong with "under God," then why is it they do not incorporate any other religion but of that of a "god" which is by default being pointed towards Christianity? I have nothing against it, I don't care, but I do care if my children are going to be critisized or punished for not reciting it as I was. It's unfair to be punished for something like not saying something.