Sorry, this probably isn't the place to talk about that. Anyway, I'm glad he's putting on TV, I didn't get a chance to see it in theatres.
Going back a few posts, if Moore was worried about the amount of money he were making for the films, rather than getting Bush out of office, he: A. Would put his film up for the award. B.Would not have fully supported all illegal downloads and bootlegs of his film. He's so adamant of spreading his film to the most voters, to get them to listen to more facts than propaganda that he even supports those who watch his film illegally. That says something to me at least. As for the polls, they are inaccurate and shouldn't be relied upon. Really, who cares about the percentages. What difference does it make, unless you're so concerned about your appearance that you just vote with the majority. Vote for who you believe in, and the polls should have no influence over that.
Since the "Bush Vs. Kerry" thread is off the first page, I'm just going to say it here. Like the commercial states "There's what Kerry says, and then there's what Kerry does." He's made a full campaign out of trying to portray Bush as a lying, deceitful president who's allowed his country to fall into pieces, and yet Kerry can never seem to to keep to one promise in his entire political career. What makes me laugh more then anything is that he tried to question Bush's military service (funny how the recent CBS documents have been proved as forgeries by many experts) and yet his service is just as questionable as Bush's. Many people (even my favorite musicians) try to portray Bush as some lying son of a b*tch, but aren't you guys forgetting something? Lying to the public is the American way. There has been so many instances where the Government has not told its public the exact truth, that we cant even be sure if half the things we're told are conspiracies or simply cover-ups to an even bigger lie. To act surprised that Bush lied to his country is foolish. Yes he might be a pretty bad president at times, but Kerry, as well as many other political figures in the past, have lied or changed their mind on several occasions. We went to a war over 200 years ago so we could declare our independance, and yet this country is so far from being 'free' that its pathetic. America isn't all its cracked up to be, and if you ask me I don't even think we should have a president anymore. I'd rather have us follow Canada for a political example then almost be under a dictatorship with how much America controls the people. What Moore's been saying isn't anything new. He doesn't deserve the Oscar because everyone already knew the government were a bunch of f*cking liars, all Moore managed to do was remind us of it. No I don't like Michael Moore, and if I wanted to be reminded of how bad our president or government was, I'd simply turn on the TV and witness another lie by Bush or Kerry, and cease to be amazed by the fact that we still have soldiers in Iraq after over a year of fighting. Moore should tackle issues that we're not familiar with, not shove our country's ignorance right in our face.
Moore had a copy of Bush's military career (or lack thereof) before Bush himself released it. Bush tried to hide parts of it. No. No. No. Kerry served in Vietnam, regardless of what you think of his duties there, he did serve. Bush on the otherhand was placed into a cushy position in the air force I believe by his daddy, even though he flunked every single test, taking a spot someone else busted their ass for, and then got pulled out once real fighting broke out. He never served. Very true, I'm not a fan of Kerry. Regardless, Kerry hasn't made a lie that cost thousands of innocent civilians, and our own troops', lives. This is a moot point. There's no doubt in my mind that Kerry is somewhat of an opportunist, taking advantage of the many and huge bush screwups, but in the end, Bush still needs to go for the damage he has caused to the country, other countries and our relations with them. Kerry hasn't done any of that (of course since he isn't president), he deserves a shot more than Bush does. I agree with most of the rest of your post, though its a bit more extreme than I would go. Hehe, and interesting point, but on the other hand we can always hope for a president who doesn't lie. The fact that the president lied I agree is overblown, its the consequences that need to be focused on, which I believe his movie does well, so that voters can see just how much damage Bush has done. In a sense that's what he's doing with his film. So many are still ignorant of the true effects of Bush's presidency. He wants to make sure all know about it.
Derek, if Kerry didnt lie, he wouldnt be a politician. All politicians are incompetent liars, that's a fact. However, Kerry's incompetence and lies are nowhere near as bad as Bush. Kerry's incompetence and lies haven't cost thousands of lives
Completely, completely agreed. Derek: For one thing, you should formulate an opinion yourself without turning to the television for all your information. It all comes out screwy and twisted. Just a point. If I remember correctly, you said the facts in Fahrenheit were wrong without even seeing the movie. Do NOT listen to people on tv. See: Key Facts From Fahrenheit Confirmed By 9/11 Commission Report and Confirmation #2 Kerry served in Vietnam. There's proof, absolute photographic proof and documents to prove his autheticity. The man who was saved by John Kerry has come out himself to say that Kerry indeed did save him from drowning. All these anti-Kerry commercials are made by partisan republicans trying to destroy his career acheivements with lies. You should not believe these commercials. See: It Takes Real Courage To Desert Your Post and then Attack A Wounded Vet In Fahrenheit 9/11, Moore showed he had documents proving Bush's absence in the 1970s. An ex-Lieutenant Governor of Texas said that Bush requested a spot in the Texas Air National Guard in 1969 so he could avoid service in Vietnam.
Oligarchy, anyone? Bottom line, Kerry is 4.35 x 10^5 less harmless to ourselves and the world than Bush is.
i like michael moore those who dont like farenheit 911 are pretty cold hearted in my opinion those who also claim thathe was being baised are being stupid aswell it's a documentary, not a national news program, he has every single right to express his opinion, he doesnt have to be objective i hope kerry wins the election
Calling Moore unbiased is like saying Bush came from a middle income family. Of course M&M's biased, just like the flag waving Bush supporters are, but on the other end of the spectrum. He does, however, bring up a ton of good points, but in American media there's almost no such thing as "unbiased."
Exactly. It's not like he can say Bush is a corrupt president then say he's a great person. He takes one side and runs with it.
After reading through all three pages, I'm going to watch this movie on TV or buy the DVD. What I've been reading from Mark's posts are really appealing and I don't agree with much of anything that Bush has done as our president.
Yah it would be nice to see Bush get voted out but at the same time i don't know if i like Kerry. Oh weel we'll see what happens.
Maybe. But there's also what George Bush says, and then there's what George Bush does. I dare you to find this many "flip-flops" for John Kerry. http://actforvictory.org/act.php/truth/tru...shs_flip_flops/, http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/message/...Date=2004-09-22 To quote Michael Moore on John Kerry's "many positions" on Iraq that the Bush Administration talks about: "By my count, he has taken only one: He believed you. That was his position. You told him and the rest of congress that Saddam had WMDs. So he -- and the vast majority of Americans, even those who didn't vote for you -- believed you. You see, Americans, like John Kerry, want to live in a country where they can believe their president." If John Kerry rewords the way he says something, but still keep the meaning the same, the Bush Administration says it's a flip flop. They've done that very thing before. John Kerry said something differently and the next day George says his opponent changed his position again. No. All he did was say it using different words. The whole "flip-flop" thing is just ridiculous. And Bush has let his country fall to pieces. $200 billion for Iraq. $200 billion for Iraq. $200 billion that could be used HERE, in OUR country. $200 billion that could be used for education, police officers, after-school programs, healthcare, etc. But no. Instead $200 billion for Iraq. What is questionable about it? Nothing. You can check the records - John Kerry served in Vietnam. John Kerry had the balls to serve in Vietnam while our wonderful "war president" George Bush was given a spot in the Texas Air National Guard with help from his powerful congressman daddy. There were tons of people ahead of the waiting list, and tons that did better on the test to get in. In fact George Bush only got a 25/100 on that very test. So he's at the end of the waiting list, he totally bombed the test and he's the one who gets the spot? And you're telling me he wasn't given special treatment? YEAH RIGHT. And just for the record Dick Cheney fled to Canada in order to dodge the draft. Like I said - John Kerry served in Vietnam. He was in charge of his boat and he did something extremly dangerous. He turned the boat around to pick up a fallen soldier who would have drowned otherwise. This is in the middle of trees/bushes/brush - all that stuff that created excellent hiding places for people trying to kill John Kerry and the soldiers. Instead of just getting his ass out of there John Kerry risked his life to go pick up a fellow soldier. John Kerry can present EVERY ONE of the soldiers who were on his boat and everyone will tell you John Kerry deserved the awards he got. Swift Boat Veterans for "Truth"? THEY WERE NOT EVEN ON HIS BOAT. They are full of lies. They claim that when John Kerry was back from Vietnam and told people about the horrible things soldiers were doing over there(cuttong off heads, ears, shooting at random civilians, etc.) he was lieing. HE WAS NOT. It is now a proven fact that John Kerry was telling the truth. For decades records backing him up were not available but are now available through the National Archives. http://207.44.245.159/article6937.htm. And here's a website from some of the guys of the 187th Air National Guard Unit, the unit George Bush claimed he was in. They never saw him there and say that it would be impossible to go unnoticed. So A. George Bush was not in that unit or B. George Bush didn't show up. http://www.texansfortruth.com Those everyday lies don't usually cost as thousands of deaths. 1,043 Americans, 66 Britons, 6 Bulgarians, 1 Dane, 2 Dutch, 1 Estonian, 1 Hungarian, 19 Italians, 1 Latvian, 13 Poles, 1 Salvadoran, 3 Slovaks, 11 Spaniards, 2 Thai, and 8 Ukrainians. Oh, and don't forget about the 13,000 to 30,000 Iraqi lives that have been lost. (number of deaths since September 24th, 2004) I don't think anyone would say John Kerry is perfect. It comes down to who would be better for America - George Bush or John Kerry? In my opinion, John Kerry. John Kerry is more for the people. The regular American people. I'll tell you some storys of John Kerry and while reading them think to youself "Would George Bush do something like that?" A woman who recently lost his husband, a Vietnam veteran who came in contact with agent orange and died of cancer, decided to go back to school to get her life on track. Eventually though her State Education Grant ran out and with that so did her dreams. She found out John Kerry was coming to her town for a public forum and she decided to go. She asked John Kerry if that's how the government treats veterans' windows and what he plans to do about it. Instead of giving some previously-thought-out answer, or something she would want to hear John Kerry simply asked her what school she goes to, and how much it would cost for her to graduate. She responded "about $6,000 dollars." From then on John Kerry has personally paid for her tuition and books. A woman was injured on the job and had been denied workers compensation. John Kerry personally asked the U.S. Secretary of Labor to investigate and eventually got the denial overturned and the woman was able to retire on disability. Both of those storys were just for 1 little person. I think those two storys show you exactly who are top priority to John Kerry. The regular people of America. Not the top 2% of America - Also known as the filthly stinking rich. Maybe what Moore has been saying isn't anything new(although I kinda disagree). But not that many people knew about these lies. Michael Moore brought those huge lies out to the mainstream public. I knew none of that untill I saw Fahrenhiet 9/11 and now i'm constantly researching on topics regarding George Bush, John Kerry, and the government in general. I think Moore's agenda was more to get all of this information out into the mainstream public not to present brand new, never before known news. And to respond to everyone in general - It's not for certain yet whether or not Moore will be able to show Fahrenhiet 9/11 on TV. His contract with his DVD Distributor currently forbids it being shown on TV but Moore is trying to convince them to let him show it just once. He's hoping to be able to play it just once. Most likely the night before the election so all of those images and information will be in the people's mind as they walk into the voting booth.
Agreed. Watching a newbie with one post completely own the admin of the site in a debate is fvcking hillarious
Wow, welcome to the elite circle of the debaters Today after Tomorrow lol. You're going to give us all a run for our money Great post.
This makes my blood boil. Bush really, really has no brains when it comes to the environment. No, let me correct myself: Especially when it comes to the environment. He is trying to allow the DOE to dump 70,000 truckloads of nuclear waste in Hanford, when the whole stupid site is already the most polluted site in the Western Hemisphere. Lets not disregard the tiniest, most insignificant fact that the unlined pits are ALREADY LEAKING, creeping toward the comlumbia river. I mean, wtf does the Bush administration and DOE thinking when they decide to dump 70,000 truckloads of waste there without cleaning up the leakage before going and doubling the amount of radioactive waste there? Oh, wait. Big Bad Powerful DOE? Profits? Screw the environment. I really hope Initiative-297 passes. Well, this Washingtonian has finished ranting for now. Go Micheal Moore.