Well like I said this is just my opinion and an observation. I think Derek made a rant about this some time ago about how he wished LP never made ATS because everyone now expects LP to go in that direction with all of their songs. I am talking about the constant negativity towards the song structures, the simple lyrics, the radio-friendly sound and what they call lack of innovative ideas. It's like LP has never had simple song structures, simple lyrics and a radio-friendly sound before I am a huge ATS fan but it's not like I will expect everything the band makes to sound like that. But it's not really like it is a HUGE problem anyway - I just don't remember people being so offended when they heard BID the first time, compared to the reaction of UIG. Even Blake gets constantly commented on because he is super positive about THP like that is a crime. I don't feel that mentality should be predominant on a fan site to be honest. It is alright to discuss things and be critical but sometimes you shouldn't nitpick others' opinions just because you can. Well you are probably going to be disappointed then. Some may even say it's their worst album. It's all opinions so other people might not share your view. The biggest music magazine in my country gave ATS 2/6 because of the lack of actual music on it, which again goes back to the fact that we all have different views on what music is and should be.
Oh you are wrong. I have read many people complaining about the overload of speeches and interludes, and the lack of "real songs." Not only on this forum but in general. If you want comparison they gave HT: 5/6, M: 4/6, MTM: 3/6, ATS: 2/6, LT: 4/6. And that honestly feels like the general opinion in my country to be honest
This is not Linkin Park related, but does have to do with fandoms. Simply put, it is cool and it is probably a hipster thing to like or dislike something. Simple as that. In Highschool, I used to poop on everyone that disliked LP. I also noticed this type of behavior in other topics, like, liking "Fred" videos or Lady Gaga and even Cartoon Network cartoons. It was just recently that I stopped doing that. Trying to poop on people because they like something is too much negative energy for me. I sat myself down, asked myself why do I like certain things and people like certain other things. My conclusion? I have no idea... What I do know is this; I can understand why certain people like certain stuff. The biggest issue I had was pop music and just random youtube hits. Stuff I didn't like, but I CAN understand why someone would like that kind of stuff. It is because it is charming. For example; couldn't be around people who was listening to Gangdam Style, just despised that type of culture. Now, I can see why people like that sort of stuff, again, it is charming. In conclusion: Stop trying to give off negative energy and just appreciate what you like and respect what others like. I can tell you, if you ask them why they like it, you can be fascinated, if not, just ignore them...
You do have a point, Kacy, I will agree with that. And I will agree that I have seen that before a lot in the past. However, recently, during the past 3 weeks (or maybe even the whole album cycle) I've seen it more so "shoved down people's throats" per se and people attacking your opinion if ATS isn't you're favorite LP album. What you described, in my opinion, does happen but I find that more so in the past. Or maybe the LPA is just going through a rough time right now. I'm not sure what it is, but it definitely feels more like being attacked than what it used to be, which is what you described.
I don't think it's that, either. It's not intentional negativity or hipster-ism. People need to stop putting Linkin Park up on a pedestal. They may be your favourite band and I am sure there's many reasons why they would be, but in the grand scheme of things there are many things that Linkin Park do that are quite simply average compared to their peers. You're never going to get fully blown away by Brad's guitar playing. Him and Mike can come up with some catchy riffs but we're not going to see anything Matt Bellamy-esque from him (unless something from THP disproves that). These days, a Linkin Park song with actual poetic lyrics is more of a surprise than anything (see: Until It's Gone. And I like that song!). What Linkin Park is amazing at is making incredibly catchy rock music with great melodies. They're a fantastic live band and a great group of guys. I think you can be a fan of a band but still criticize portions of their music that you feel could be improved. It's not criticism in the sense of "Linkin Park sucks!" but more in the way of "C'mon guys, you can do better than this. You've proved that before." Really? I haven't seen much of that at all. I'm with Kacy that the ATS lovers (I don't place myself in any camp) are usually reasonable. Welcome to this fanbase during album cycles.
I think the biggest problem with fandoms is that everyone tries to dictate what a fan should be and if you don't agree with that persons opinion then you are not classified as a fan in their eyes.
A lot of valid points in this thread. We're bound to come upon that one central problem eventually, if we haven't already
This is really the crux of the problem. All sides need to remember that criticism of something you like is not a personal attack. All sides also need to remember that some people listen to music (or watch movies or play video games) for different reasons. If you are more of an "A Thousand Suns" person, you probably need to remember that the people who prefer the other albums probably listen to music because they want to get their heart racing or because they feel a personal connection to it. They, unlike you, are probably not as interested in music as an intellectual/analytical activity. Note: This does NOT mean they are less intellectual than you as a person. It means that they prefer music/art as a form of escapism, which is a 100% valid way of looking at any art. If you are more of a nu-metal/not-ATS person, you probably need to remember that the people who prefer "A Thousand Suns" are more interested in thinking about and analyzing music/art, instead of just "feeling" it. So when an ATS person makes a point about music, it is probably coming from a more intellectual place as opposed to an emotional place. This is VERY important. When an ATS person calls Living Things, for example, "dumbed down," they are NOT saying that people who listen to it or like it are "dumb." They are commenting on the music from an analytical perspective. However, a nu-metal/non-ATS person, who experiences music from a more emotional/personal stand point, might take the "dumb" comment as being emotionally-charged, because that's how they personally are experiencing the music. They think of music in terms of personal emotional connection, so calling a song they like "dumb" feels like they are being called dumb themselves. This is my theory as to why, as Kacy said earlier, the non-ATS people seem to make less analytical and more emotionally charged statements when they get into arguments. It's not necessarily because they aren't as rational, it's because music/art for them is not a rational/intellectual pursuit. And when they see an ATS person make a comment that was meant to be an analytical statement, they take it as a personal one, so they respond like most people would when they are attacked personally. The problem seems to be that we have two different groups who are essentially speaking two different languages when it comes to talking about music. And this creates problems.
People seem to be forgetting that there are people who generally like both sides. I for one quite enjoy mostly everything the band has done, and it's all appealed to me in one way or another at someone point and continues to when I go back to listen to it over again. But this doesn't mean the fanbase separation doesn't exist, as noted here, it is a little bit insane just how rapidly a whole new set of fans were attracted to the band and how harshly they clash with the established fanbase, for the most part.
I didn't forget, I just didn't include that third group because I was trying to discuss one of the biggest sources of conflict on here. What I think the "everything" group needs to remember is exactly what Elaine said in the OP. Not everyone is going to like everything, and that needs to be accepted.
I understand Brandon's argument and I pretty much agree with it, but I prefer, say, "When They Come For Me" over, say, "Somewhere I Belong" at least in part because the former gets my heart racing more. Listening to "A Thousand Suns" doesn't feel like an "analytical pursuit" for me and there's certainly a sense of escapism in it. EDIT: maybe I fit into the "everything" group, then
I think most people aren't that bothered by criticism itself, but by the way it's worded sometimes. There's a difference between constructive criticism and downright bashing the band. Some people can talk in such a condescending and hateful way that it makes you wonder what they are even doing on a Linkin Park forum. I think it's those kind of comments that lead to catty fights instead of intellectual discussions, that makes this place feel so negative sometimes and can deflate your excitement for anything that the band is doing. And I agree with Mark that people tend to put LP on a pedestal. Even though they have had some shining moments, they have never been a genius band and I don't think they ever will be. And I'm personally perfectly fine with that because, like Mark said, the reason I love this band is because they wright catchy songs, they're great live and I love them as people. If I want to hear deeper, more intellectual lyrics or more complex guitar solo's, there are plenty of other bands I can listen to.
Yeah. It's an oversimplification to say that one side *only* listens to music as escapism and the other side *only* listens to be intellectual. Realistically, it's a mixture of the two as well as everyone's different personal tastes. But each side definitely seems to lean towards one over the other.
i dont get why people make a big deal of the discussions we have here. i said a few times that i dislike GATS and UIG and why. but i never attacked anyone else or said that their opinion is wrong. i like reading people opinions even when i'm not in the discussion. what happens here is healthy, rarely people get mad and really fight. it would be much worse if every one agreed on everything. in every news the comments would be like "LOVED IT" "AMAZING" "I LOVE CHESTER<3" "SCREM LIKE DEMON, SING LIKE ANGEL" "BIG BAD BRAD!!" i rather leave this kind of comment for people on tumblr, instagram and one direction fans. and being a fan dont mean loving anything the band do, this is a stupid idea, so when someone here dislike something the band done doesnt mean they should go listen to something else or that they are not fans anymore...
Good point. This makes me think about the birth of the hardcore punk scene, and how some punk bands went on a kind of crusade against intellectual Pinkfloydish music in the 70's. They judged it not accessible enough, they though it didn't represent the real spirit of rock, so they went on to play a style of music which was the total opposite. Hardcore punk songs were supposed to be written in a non-complex dumb way. In a way that would permit the least skilled guitar players ever to form a band on day 1, write some stuff on day 2, and perform it in a bar on day 3. For them, music was not about showing off technicality but it was about emotions, feelings, living in the moment. That's the way they wanted it to be. Well, I'm simplifying the story, but the background is there. There's really different ways of appreciating music, and that's why I'm not a fan of the "best music ever" thing, because it all depends on what you're expecting from the music.
That's it! That's what everyone in this forum whether ATS heavy or Hybrid Theory fan should approach LP as. Nothing else really needs to be said, if you can't see the band as just that and add more to what you said would be the reason we have a division. No more putting LP in some magical pedestal that doesn't exist. Linkin Park is just what Mark said. /endthread
ITT "Telling Others What They SHOULD Take LP As And Treating It As Gospel That Everyone Should Follow Or They're Idiots" is actually against the point of the post. Welcome to being part of The Problem. I hope your stay within it is short. It's fine to have this view. It's fine to discuss it with others. Have heated discussions, even. It's not fine to say they're idiots/wrong if they do not share it. It's not fine to outright tell them what they should think rather than discuss it with them.
He didn't say anything about people being idiots or wrong. The point he's making is that once we stop the hero worshipping, we can start having grounded, realistic conversations about the band's music. I thought this thread was quite civilized until you started accusing people of being part of the problem. Let's not ruin a good thing.
It was the tone of his post that I took issue with. "That's what everyone in this forum whether ATS heavy or Hybrid Theory fan should approach LP as." "No more putting LP in some magical pedestal that doesn't exist. " I don't think that's his call to make. He didn't outright say people were idiots/wrong, but it was pretty damn heavily inferred. He certainly took a "Higher-Than-Thou" approach to it, which is definitely one of the issues I was talking about. But I admit I may have made a hasty jump there. I apologise if I caused any offence.