You're right. And kudos on the Kanzentai link; one of the two most resourceful and reliable Dragonball fansites on the web. http://www.kanzenshuu.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=15102
I could see why those became popular rumors though. I never felt the series could top itself after Frieza, and it did feel like all of the stops were pulled out there. After that the characters & the suspense felt lackluster, and repetitive. I never finished the Buu saga. I loved the shit out of the beginning of the series. Here's hoping that the movie will rekindle some of that.
I see this hasn't been posted yet: Can't wait to see the movie! It's nice to see Toriyama is playing a big role in this.
I don't remember Mystic Gohan doing shit. Was he really the strongest? Didn't get get absorbed by Buu? I haven't watched the Buu saga since it came out basically. I was so pissed when Gohan goes from being the most epic character ever at the end of the Cell saga to a nobody in the Buu saga. It's like they set up his character and then disregarded everything that happened in the past and just decided to write a totally new and separate arc with Buu.
Pretty much. Part of the problem was strength vs skill. Mystic Gohan was ungodly strong, but it terms of fighting instinct and battlefield smarts, I wouldn't put him on par with Goku or Vegeta, which is part of why he didn't utterly destroy Buu. In reality you'd hope Mystic Gohan would have pounded Buu in two minutes flat but he was kind of cocky (like he was with Cell). Lack of strength was never Gohan's problem. Lack of training was. Sweet picture! I hope this will erase GT from my mind lol.
It's not entirely a disregard of his character. After all, if you'll take the motives of a character like Gohan into consideration, it's quite actually quite logical for the author and editor to have rendered him a mere shadow of what he once was. Kid's a scholar, not a fighter.
Holy crap I missed a lot on this conversation. I agree with you. I don't know as many details of the series as many of you guys do (as I only went through the whole series once during my childhood and then catching on it every once in a while on Cartoon Network) or did as much research but I was aware that Toriyama intended to make Gohan the main character after the Cell games. Hell, and to be honest I can't see why some fans backlashed so much on that idea, I would've been fine with it, the Cell saga was nothing short of extraordinary and it's a bit of a shame they made Gohan's powers go to waste, it would've been interesting to see how the story would've branched out and who knows if it could've been even longer. I am as well, I am watching with my older sister and it's like all episodes are new again, it's been a long time. We can of course remember a lot of elements of the story but it's nothing compared to watching it all over again and go "oooh yeaah I remember that!" PS.: The Videl beatup by Spopovich was BRUTAL. My sis was kinda reluctant to watch that episode but I wanted to watch it again so bad! It was definitely moving. That's one of the things I like of the series, you get so involved in the story and emotions flow. I had a huge knot in my throat both times when I saw Goku hugging Goten and when Buu gave that blind kid his sight back, holy man.
After reading more on that link that was posted it states that Akira himself decided to nix Gohan being the main hero. From an interview: Interviewer: And then the Cell arc ended. Did you think that everyone felt you would put Gohan into the leading role? Toriyama: I intended to put Gohan into the leading role. It didn't work out. I felt that compared to Goku, he was ultimately not suited for the part. So in the end, to answer Snail's question, he was the strongest but didn't necessarily "kick ass" in the true sense of DBZ like Vegeta or Goku did. I always felt his fights were lackluster compared to how strong he was. Plus Akira had built up the character to the point where making him the hero would mean changing a lot of his personality. During the years after cell he pretty much disregarded fighting. He didn't have that fighting spirit and undying devotion to training. IMO Goku dying during the Cell Saga should have pushed him to train like never before but he did the complete opposite. It's hard to push a character like that to take Goku's place. I would have LOVED to see it I can see why he didn't. He even states he wanted Gohan to beat Buu but we all know how that turned out. It seemed like a big disrespect to his character. "STRONGEST CHARACTER!! Wait... he was whooped. We need a NEW strongest character! FUSION!!" Seemed poorly thought out.
I already had a response in mind while reading your post and you kinda did it for me .. I was just about to say that the difference between Gohan as a fighter from Goku or Vegeta is that Gohan was a lot more "soft-hearted", I mean, the only way to get the best of Gohan was to make him upset, and how could you do that? By hurting something/one he loves. Despite Goku being also a selfless and caring being, he took fighting very seriously, he loved it, and he had a bit more "cold blood" than Gohan, when it comes to a big fight or when the stakes are high, Goku doesn't play games, so maybe, Toriyama thought that Gohan wasn't that leading role he wanted, because of that difference in personality, idk. I am okay with the way the story ended up being, I actually don't have any problem with it, BUT, I wouldn't have minded for Gohan to be the one who stepped up, he beat Cell, there's no reason to believe he couldn't have gone stronger after 7 YEARS, he had all the to be the greatest fighter but, indeed, he stopped training.
The original manga ends after Gohan defeats Cell. Toriyama's intent was to have Gohan be the strongest Saiyan to ever live, owing to his half-human, half-Saiyan heritage. Unfortunately, the anime pushed it past that. If anything, the anime should've ended after Gohan defeated Cell, as with the manga. -edit- Apparently if you read more of the thread, this response has been made several times. Oh well. I guess that's what happens when you're drunk.
Training and combat are in Gohan's blood, but it isn't his passion. Early on in the Buu arc, the author and editor captured the lighthearted side of his character that was seldom touched upon. Down to the core, Gohan is a fun-loving goofy geek. He steps up depending on the gravity of the circumstances. Look at it this way, as far as he's concerned they've already wiped out the ultimate villain from space, and the surprise freak from Earth. Hell, he's a smart kid and he made a fair assessment; he's the strongest warrior in the universe. As such, I find it appropriate considering how Gohan turned out. In retrospect, I'd say fans of Gohan have it pretty good. If you're still sulking on how Gohan presented himself throughout the better part of the Buu arc, there's always that fucking badass, Future Gohan. Remember him? [youtube]C53Lwzql1Tw[/youtube] View image alongside badass theme please.
Well, the future Gohan was maybe weaker than the Buu arc Gohan, but he had way much more charisma Actually, I might be one of the only one to think this way, but I'm glad Gohan didn't have the big role during the Buu saga. For some reasons, I have never been a fan of Gohan, he's the kind of character that irritates me lol I mean, during the Cell saga, he becomes the strongest warrior ever, that's a fact, but why? Because he was born with an enorm power potential that revealed itself when he got angry. I feel like he doesn't deserve that power, he hasn't trained that much compared to what Goku did, but he's still stronger because he was born with more abilities. I find Goku way more cool. He was born with a pathetic power level, but with alot of efforts and pain, he became a great warrior. Also, Goku is way more funny ^^
Gohan is as strong as he is due to him being half human and half Saiyan. Also, being the son of the legendary Super Saiyan helps.
I agree that he is. Which is why I don't think he fit the "hero". He was very diverse and Goku, while entertaining, wasn't. Goku was kind of the lovable meat head who had a talent and passion for fighting. I think for Gohan to be that cold-blooded bad ass that Goku turned into when fighting he would need a real catalyst a la Future Gohan. He was a major bad ass but still had the humor, but of course didn't make a big impact. We all hoped Gohan would turn into a slightly less damaged version of Future Gohan buuuuut nope. We could all see Piccolo (my 2nd favorite character) hoped he'd instill some of that stoic nature and fighting spirit into Gohan and it didn't really work out. His struggle with having power thrust upon him but not necessarily wanting it was very compelling, but just could not flourish in the context of a show like DBZ. It'd be interesting to see someone re-do DBZ without mucking it up like GT.