House Passes CISPA. Senate to come.

Discussion in 'Serious Chat' started by Jesse, Apr 27, 2012.

  1. #21
    shinformant

    shinformant Banned

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    That's what I was thinking as well. Countries that have some sort of social democracy in place usually seem to be the ones that are doing better.
     
  2. #22
    Rocky

    Rocky Well-Known Member

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    When it comes to money and politics? Yes...yes they are.

    If someone was like "hey! I'll pay you 500k to vote for some shit you don't believe in!"

    you just might do it...that's what the majority of congress does
     
  3. #23
    SuperDude526

    SuperDude526 Well-Known Member

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    This. I'm sorry but I really can't see any good coming out of small government. And to suggest such for the most powerful nation in the world (for now) is ludicrous.


    Why yes...that's what any politician would do. Even a liberatarian.
     
  4. #24
    travz21

    travz21 Muscle Museum LPA Super Member

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    cum hoc ergo propter hoc
     
  5. #25
    Benjamin

    Benjamin LPA team LPA Super VIP

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    dicendi in diversis lingua facit me sapientior.
     
  6. #26



    A big reason why the northern european countries are so stable is because of high taxes. They have some of thehighest income tax rates in the world. But in return, they get awesome pension, universal health care, and so much more. The government should really raise taxes for the rich especially. It's a shame the Republican-majority House of congress is strongly opposing it. It shows how much people love to have money. We just want more and more.
     
  7. #27
    travz21

    travz21 Muscle Museum LPA Super Member

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    This is way out of hand now. Every sentence is a fallacy and has no validity in this argument. Do they not teach this in school anymore? Do people not educate themselves if it's not taught? Nothing valid is being presented from any counterargument. At least learn some of these and why you're being silly for committing so many of them: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fallacies
     
  8. #28
    Blackee Dammet

    Blackee Dammet Feminism Is My God Now

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    Nothing will happen, and a week after it doesn't pass anyway, millions of nerds will flood every website imaginable with anti-CISPA, and then take credit for having it not pass.

    Take retroactive credit.
     
  9. #29
    SuperDude526

    SuperDude526 Well-Known Member

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    Are our arguments fallacious, or can you simply not stomach them because you have no credible argument in reply?
     
  10. #30
    Mark

    Mark Canadian Beauty LPA Administrator

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    Three things:

    (1) If you can't debate without being condescending and insulting, as you were in the two above quotes, then don't debate at all.
    (2) Typically the aggressor in these situations is the one running out of counter-arguments, not the other way around.
    (3) Your disrespectful comments have earned you an infraction.
     
  11. #31
    travz21

    travz21 Muscle Museum LPA Super Member

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    No, your arguments are just fine.


    Somalia sucks and they have no government, therefore they must suck because they have no government.

    Highly taxed European countries are also stable countries, therefore they must be stable because of high taxes.

    Same thing as saying that Tiger Woods is rich and also sleeps with hundreds of women, therefore he must be rich because he sleeps with hundreds of women.


    I haven't been presented with any real arguments. Just stuff that you guys think makes sense but doesn't. It's perfectly fine to say things like, "Highly taxed European countries are also stable countries, so it's possible that they are stable because of high taxes." That is a sound argument. That allows for a counterargument and a real debate. But using fallacies doesn't allow for any real counterarguments or debate. So feel free to make any real points instead of this imaginary debate that you probably think you're winning.
     
  12. #32
    Rocky

    Rocky Well-Known Member

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    I want to applaud travz for not being stupid.
     
  13. #33
    Todd

    Todd FLǕGGȦ∂NKđ€ČHIŒβǾLʃÊN LPA Administrator

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    Are you implying that everyone else who has participated in this thread is?
     
  14. #34
    Rocky

    Rocky Well-Known Member

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    nope
     
  15. #35
    shinformant

    shinformant Banned

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    I think the most fallacious thing I've seen in this thread is putting Somalia forward as an example of how fantastic stateless society is, and then essentially calling people idiots when they point out what a hole that country is currently and how in many ways it has actually gone downhill. That's having it both ways.
     
  16. #36
    SuperDude526

    SuperDude526 Well-Known Member

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    There's actually another country, in the Western world's past, that is exemplary of the sort of place America would be following the libertarian credo:

    Francia after the decline of the Carolingian dynasty.

    And actually the Republican ideal follows this very closely as well.
     
  17. #37
    travz21

    travz21 Muscle Museum LPA Super Member

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    Everything you said here is wrong. I never said it's a fantastic stateless society. I simply said quality of life has improved. And nobody has debated how it has gone downhill since they became stateless. All anybody has said is that it's shitty because there is no government. What are these ways that Somalia has gone downhill that you imagined people pointing out in this thread?


    Edit: I'll look up that example later tonight after the NBA games. I haven't heard of Francia before.
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2012
  18. #38



    Well, one of the reasons why Somalia is so unstable is because their government is barely existant. They cannot control anything.

    High taxes are also one of the reasons why the northern european countries are so stable. Because the government can get more money from taxes, in return they give more to the citizens, such as Universal health care, creating more jobs, ensuring safety and education, and a lot more.

    Your tiger woods statement is completely invalid. Him sleeping with hundreds of women does not contribute to his wealth.
     
  19. #39
    travz21

    travz21 Muscle Museum LPA Super Member

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    It's equally as invalid as the other arguments I paired it with. They all commit fallacies.
     
  20. #40
    SuperDude526

    SuperDude526 Well-Known Member

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    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francia

    Of course by the time we get to the sort of government (or lack thereof) that I'm thinking of when I say a libertarian-style governance, the realm once known as Francia ceases to exist. Yes, the lack of a large government destroyed the kingdom of the Franks, and all the counties and manors ended up being ruled by individual counts and maiors with massive amounts of wealth and individual political power. Small, state-led government as is the libertarian's wont, and basically, rich Republicans (lords/counts) ruling over libertarians who thought they'd liberated themselves (freemen). And then feudalism happened.

    And the fact that the words 'Carolingian dynasty' didn't ring a single bell appalls me.
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2012

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