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  1. #1
    Angry Marines. Always angry, all the time. >:C User Name's Avatar
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    The Absolute Failure of Drug Prohibition

    Took this from another board. I want to see if we can actually get an intelligent discussion happening here.

    http://pot.tv/archive/shows/pottvshowse-1448.html

    This is a very good show that aired on ABC that gives a very good overview of the failures of the war on drugs. PLEASE watch this video before responding.

    It is clear that prohibiting drugs is unsuccessful, because everytime you destroy plants, the more the market price goes up. The drug dealers always make a high amount of money, no matter what. Not to mention the wasted resources, the crowded prisons, the dangers of the black market, and dozens of other reasons.

    So what should we do about drugs?
    So, I'm going to go kick Abaddon in the balls. Later.

  2. #2
    I'm Not Obsessed!!! lpboarder's Avatar
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    I believe Bill Maher's stance on this topic is about right on target. It goes something like this when dealing with drugs and the government. If it doesnt come in a bottle with your name on it and the pill doesnt have the pharmaceutical company's name or logo on it then it wont be legal because it doesnt have a lobbyist lining Congress' pockets year after year. This is why and it is fairly accurate in my eyes too.

    I dont condone drugs but I think some, like marijuana, are okay. We have spent too much time and money in Columbia trying to stop the drugs at the source. Why not legalize it and have it government controlled? A modest tax can be charged and according to some estimates the deficit could be wiped out pretty quick with the revenue produced. With the government controlling the THC mix and the distribution, the dealers would be out of business which reduces crime and we can stop putting potheads in jail. But this doesnt make any money for the limpdick Congressmen or the big bad drug companies so it wont happen anytime soon, if ever.

  3. #3
    MEE† ∆† L∆KE $pvcxGhxztCasey's Avatar
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    Drug dealers wouldn't be out of business. Not even the pot dealers. The government would charge, say, $30 for a quaker, but then the dealers would turn around and offer a lower price, like $20 (the street price for a quaker is $25 in my town). While I'm at it, studies have proved that a joint/blunt is healthier than a cigarette. Which one is legal, though? Cannabis and Tobacco both grow natural on this planet, but only one is legal. Why? Because nicotine is addictive (THC isn't nearly as addictive as nicotine), thus more money for the big tobacco corporations, and ultimately the government.

    Whether or not you legalize drugs, it's always going to be around. Just like the War on Terrorism, it's a pointless crusade. I think in my lifetime, I'll see marijuana legalized. Synthetic drugs such as LSD and MDMA, in my opinion, won't be legalized. My stance on drugs in general (except meth, since it literally rips your skin open) is that it's good in a controlled environment, and in relatively small doses. Drugs such as cocaine or heroine, in my experience with them and the people around me that have had 3 or more years experience with the, aren't nearly as fatal as the media makes them out to be. As long as you have the mental power to control your addictions, and you do them in a safe, controlled environment, I don't see why they're an evil to the media.

    Yeah, sure, cocaine and the other "harder" drugs take a toll on your body, but so does McDonalds. No, before you read that last line and start typing a rant out, I'm not comparing cocaine or it's effects (short and long term) to McDonalds.

  4. #4
    Lost Anya's Avatar
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    I think stuff like weed/cocaine/hallucinogens should be legalized. I don't see any problem with them as long as people use it in the right ways. In other words, don't be stupid about it. Doing stuff like LSD you should allmost allways do with someone at your side, in case you get a bad trip. Weed though IMO should and probably will be legalized at some point in the future. I doubt stuff like LSD will be legalized though, like Casey said, but people will still do drugs even if they are illegal so I agree there's no point in making them that way.

    I think the only thing that actually does scare me is Heroine, but probably because I just think the fact of sticking a needle in your body is disgusting. If people want to do that though, that's also their place to do so.
    Last edited by Anya; 06-03-2006 at 01:06 AM.
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  5. #5
    LPAssociation.com Administrator Derek's Avatar
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    All the stuff you mentioned there can be deadly Anya, and I see no reason in legalizing it. I'm sorry.

    Yes, even weed. It's been proven it has the same effects as alcohol when driving fully stoned.
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  6. #6
    MEE† ∆† L∆KE $pvcxGhxztCasey's Avatar
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    Do you know how much weed you have to smoke to be so stoned you can't drive a vechile?

    I do, because I've done it. It's about two quakers. And I was still fine.

    EDIT: Besides, weed does not impare your judgement like alcohol does.

  7. #7
    LPAssociation.com Administrator Derek's Avatar
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    Does it still mean that people should use drugs to obtain a state of happiness? No.

    No offense Casey but there are far more resourceful and healthier ways for people to feel good without causing possible harm to their bodies. Some of the more harmful methods (Acid, ecstacy, crack etc.) can really fuck you up and permanently damage your brain. A good example is to take a look at Ozzy Osbourne. He tried a little bit of everything when he was younger, and now look how much of a mess he is.

  8. #8
    Ambient Evil Angel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by D
    All the stuff you mentioned there can be deadly Anya, and I see no reason in legalizing it. I'm sorry.

    Yes, even weed. It's been proven it has the same effects as alcohol when driving fully stoned.
    Yeah how do you define what quantity is right?How would a drugged person make that out?
    Formerly known as Rohan and Tout Le Monde.

  9. #9
    Lost Anya's Avatar
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    Derek: You can die from something strange allmost everyday, it's not like doing drugs will increase the death rate even by much because even if drugs are illegal now, people are still using them. The use of drugs won't change if they're legalized, people still and allways will be using them no matter what the government says.

    Because like it says in the video, it's allmost a waste of time to deal with people who are doing them everyday because it won't stop. Those people made the choice to do it, so why do anything about it if they want to fuck themselves up? It's their choice, and whether we legalize it or illegalize it they'll still be doing it anyway.

    Edit: Weed is much healthier for you to use than alcohol, and several of my friends have driven while on it while i've been on it too and in the car with them, yet they've done absolutely fine. No one has ever died from doing weed either, so I don't know why you can say that it's deadly. ;P

    Weed is practically like candy. It's harmless.
    Last edited by Anya; 06-03-2006 at 05:03 PM.

  10. #10
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    Anya: Um...weed is not completely harmless, people have died from it...

    Derek: Unfortunately, drugs are the only way some people can feel happy.

    I'm for legalization because it would give much more money to the government and because of the argument that people will do it anyway no matter what.

    Someone argued that the drug dealers would drop the price...maybe the government could forbid growing it. People would still do it but why would the gov care. They would be making a lot of money.

    How would people know how much to have? It's like drinking alcohol. People would have the same mindset of responisibility to not have that much if they were to drive as they do when they remind themselves not to drink a lot when they drive. If they didn't have that responsibility, they would be the same kind of people that would DUI now anyway.

  11. #11
    Lost Anya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glenn
    Anya: Um...weed is not completely harmless, people have died from it...
    I've never heard of anyone dying from it. ;P And even could die from it, you'd have to take an extremely large amount of it probably for that to actually happen.

  12. #12
    MEE† ∆† L∆KE $pvcxGhxztCasey's Avatar
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    It is generally considered to be impossible to achieve a lethal overdose by smoking cannabis. According to the Merck Index, 12th edition, the LD50, the lethal dose for 50% of rats tested by inhalation, is 42 mg/kg of body weight. That is equivalent of a 165 lb (75 kg) man ingesting all of the THC in 21 one-gram cigarettes of high-potency (15% THC) cannabis buds at once, assuming no THC was lost through burning or exhalation. For oral consumption, the LD50 for rats is 1270 mg/kg and 730 mg/kg for males and females, respectively, equivalent to the THC in about a pound of 15% THC cannabis. Only with intravenous administration — an unheard-of method of use — may such a level be even theoretically possible.[18]

    There has only ever been one recorded verdict of fatal overdose due to cannabis. In January 2004, Lee Maisey of Pembrokeshire, Wales was found dead. The coroner's report stated "Death due to probable cannabis toxicity". It had been reported that Maisey smoked about six joints a day. Mr. Maisey's blood contained 130 nanograms per milliliter (ng/ml) of the THC metabolite THC-COOH. However, the validity of the finding did not stand up well under review. As reported on 2004-01-28 in the Neue Z&#252;richer Zeitung, the Federal Health Ministry of Switzerland asked Dr. Rudolf Brenneisen, a professor at the department for clinical research at the University of Bern, to review the data of this case. Dr. Brenneisen said that the data of the toxicological analysis and collected by autopsy were "scanty and not conclusive" and that the conclusion "death by cannabis intoxication" was "not legitimate."[19] Additionally, Dr. Franjo Grotenhermen of the Nova-Institute in Cologne, Germany said: "A concentration of 130 ng/ml THC-COOH in blood is a moderate concentration, which may be observed some hours after the use of one or two joints. Heavy regular use of cannabis easily results in THC-COOH concentrations of above 500 ng/ml. Many people use much more cannabis than Mr. Maisey did, without any negative consequences."
    I can do this for days, really...

    Like any substance, marijuana can be abused. The most common problem attributed to marijuana is frequent overuse, which can induce lethargic behavior, but does not cause serious health problems. Marijuana can cause short-term memory loss, but only while under the influence. Marijuana does not impair long-term memory. Marijuana does not lead to harder drugs. Marijuana does not cause brain damage, genetic damage, or damage the immune system. Unlike alcohol, marijuana does not kill brain cells or induce violent behavior. Continuous long-term smoking of marijuana can cause bronchitis, but the chance of contracting bronchitis from casual marijuana smoking is minuscule. Respiratory health hazards can be totally eliminated by consuming marijuana via non-smoking methods, i.e., ingesting marijuana via baked foods, tincture, or vaporizer.

    A 1997 UCLA School of Medicine study (Volume 155 of the American Journal of Respiratory & Critical Care Medicine) conducted on 243 marijuana smokers over an 8-year period reported the following: "Findings from the long-term study of heavy, habitual marijuana smokers argue against the concept that continuing heavy use of marijuana is a significant risk factor for the development of chronic lung disease." "Neither the continuing nor the intermittent marijuana smokers exhibited any significantly different rates of decline in lung function as compared with those individuals who never smoked marijuana." The study concluded: "No differences were noted between even quite heavy marijuana smoking and nonsmoking of marijuana."

    Marijuana does not cause serious health problems like those caused by tobacco or alcohol (e.g., strong addiction, cancer, heart problems, birth defects, emphysema, liver damage, etc.). Death from a marijuana overdose is impossible. In all of world history, there has never been a single human death attributed to a health problem caused by marijuana.
    # An exhaustive search of the literature finds no credible reports of deaths induced by marijuana. The US Drug Abuse Warning Network (DAWN) records instances of drug mentions in medical examiners' reports, and though marijuana is mentioned, it is usually in combination with alcohol or other drugs. Marijuana alone has not been shown to cause an overdose death.

    Source: Drug Abuse Warning Network (DAWN), available on the web at http://www.samhsa.gov/; also see Janet E. Joy, Stanley J. Watson, Jr., and John A. Benson, Jr., "Marijuana and Medicine: Assessing the Science Base," Division of Neuroscience and Behavioral Research, Institute of Medicine (Washington, DC: National Academy Press, 1999), available on the web at http://www.nap.edu/html/marimed/; and US Department of Justice, Drug Enforcement Administration, "In the Matter of Marijuana Rescheduling Petition" (Docket #86-22), September 6, 1988, p. 57
    Last edited by $pvcxGhxztCasey; 06-08-2006 at 03:17 AM.

  13. #13
    &nbsp; Tomi's Avatar
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    We have a lot of people who smoke outside around the doors - which I hate, as I can't stand the smell of any smoke. And apparently one of the guys has done it so much that he literally fucked up his brain and now he's pretty messed up from it [I don't know what he did exactly..].

    Sure, go ahead and legalize whatever drugs, but hopefully there's some tight restrictions to protect people from fucking up theirselves too much.

  14. #14
    Sadist Sagittarius ...Lauren?'s Avatar
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    drugs: hard on your liver
    kills brain cells
    can be fatal
    when you get high you do things you wouldn't normally do, SERIOUS things

    getting drunk: hard on your liver
    kills brain cells
    can be fatal
    when you get drunk you do things you wouldn't normally do, SERIOUS things
    Sooo.... legalize drugs or make getting drunk illegal (impossible to inforce).

    The reason the prohibition laws in the 1920's were so flagrantly violated is because of the law itself. If it weren't for the law, booze running and the making of booze wouldn't have been so profitable. The same thing applies to drugs.

    People do drugs all the time, even if they aren't legal.

    Thousands of ADD and ADHD children are on prescription amphetamines/ridilin for help concentrating.

    In conclusion yes, drugs should be legalized. Although I wouldn't be doing them, because there is no such thing as a 'social stoner', getting high/stoned would always be the equivilant of getting totally drunk, which I am opposed to. And even if they were legal, D is right, take a look at Ozzy Osbourne.
    Last edited by ...Lauren?; 06-08-2006 at 05:39 AM.

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  15. #15
    MEE† ∆† L∆KE $pvcxGhxztCasey's Avatar
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    I'll never, ever see where people get off comparing getting high off of marijuana to getting shitfaced drunk.

    Never.

  16. #16
    OMG, it's Alfred Molina! Astat's Avatar
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    Weed should be legalized. I personally know at LEAST 3 dozen weed smokers, and those are just the ones I know about. And guess how many of them have health problems from it or have directly had any serious consequences from smoking it? None.

    My dad is 47 years old and has been smoking weed since he was 16. And what does he have wrong with him? Well...degenerative discs in his back and a bad knee from doing so much physical labor over the years...he's semi-deaf in his left ear from playing drums his whole life and having a hihat on his left side all the time, he has an irregular heartbeat that he was born with, and he has really bad acid reflux and stomach problems from his diet habits...but whoa, none of them were caused from smoking weed!

    I firmly believe that the only reason weed is illegal is because cannibis plants have so many uses that if they were legal it would wreak havoc on a bunch of different industries. People have been smoking weed for thousands of years, and up until this century, weed (along with a lot of drugs actually) was always considered a good thing, beneficial to the human body, and useful for medical purposes. If it was really THAT bad for you, don't you think the Chinese and everybody would have been avoiding it thousands of years ago?

    It's like, one caveman eats the blue berries, the other one eats the red berries. The one that eats the red berries dies shortly afterward. The other caveman knows now that he should probably avoid the red berries. If weed did all these horrible things that the government and so many people claim it does, I think the ancient Chinese and everybody else that used it wouldn't have kept it in their cultures for generation upon generation.




    For the record, I currently only think weed should be legalized, as I do know of the dangers of other drugs. And I have personally never smoked it myself.
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