PDA

View Full Version : Epitah Newsletter- Iraqi detainees tortured



Alacrity
05-05-2004, 07:39 PM
THE PUNK ROCK EDITORIAL
(Send submissions to webmonkey@epitaph.com)

As if invading Iraq wasn't bad enough, now we're abusing their humanitarian rights. This article was posted on CNN.com and it paints quite a disturbing picture...

Army report documents mistreatment of Iraqi prisoners
(CNN) -- U.S. Army soldiers have committed "egregious acts" and "grave breaches of international law" at Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq, according to a classified report by Maj. Gen. Antonio Taguba made available to CNN.
An investigation report said key senior leadership of the Army's 800th Military Police Brigade and the 205th Military Intelligence Brigade failed to comply with established regulations, policies and command directives in preventing detainee abuses at Abu Ghraib prison and Camp Bucca from August 2003 to February 2004.
The investigation, an account of which first appeared in New Yorker magazine, paints a picture of an understaffed military police brigade that was not properly trained for the detention of Iraqi prisoners under the Geneva Conventions and that was engaged in systematic abuse.
The brigade also was plagued by poor morale after its deployment in Iraq was extended, the investigation said.
The report states "numerous incidents of sadistic, blatant and wanton criminal abuses were inflicted on several detainees."
It was based on tips from two whistleblowers, more than 50 interviews -- by the Army's Criminal Investigation Command -- of military police, potential suspects and detainees, as well as "numerous photos and videos portraying in graphic detail actual detainee abuse" taken by detention facility personnel at Abu Ghraib.
Taguba's investigation details alleged events at Abu Ghraib that took place between mid-2003 and early 2004.
An earlier incident at Camp Bucca was also noted as a case of alleged abuse in which lessons were not learned or passed along to MPs.
On May 12, 2003, four soldiers reportedly abused numerous detainees who were being transferred from Talil Air Base. Formal charges and court martial have been recommended in the Camp Bucca case.
The investigation recommends reprimands and disciplinary action for a dozen officers and senior noncommissioned officers on charges ranging from lack of leadership and failure to take proper disciplinary action to the negligent discharge of weapons and drunkenness -- not all related to the abuse of prisoners.
But the report does cite numerous examples of prisoner mistreatment at Abu Ghraib:
-Threatening with a 9 mm pistol.
-Pouring cold water on naked detainees.
-Threatening males with rape.
-Beating with a broom handle and a chair.
-Sodomizing a detainee with a chemical light and perhaps a broom stick.
-Threatening with military dogs.
-Attaching wires to extremities, including the male genital.
-Accusing prisoners of being homosexual.
-Forcing detainees into compromising positions while naked.
-At least 2 investigations
At least two military investigations are looking at whether private contractors involved in the interrogation of prisoners had a role in their alleged abuse, senior Pentagon officials said.
Photographs broadcast on CBS' "60 Minutes" showed naked Iraqi prisoners being forced to simulate sex acts and form human pyramids as American troops watched. One also showed a cloaked prisoner standing on a box with wires attached to his hands.
A former prisoner who says he appeared in the photographs, Haydar Sabbar Ali, told CNN's Ben Wedeman that he was cursed and beaten and had his clothes cut off with a knife.
"We are Muslims. We don't go naked in front of our families. But there we were, naked in front of American women and men," he said, adding that this treatment went on for about four hours as punishment for beating a fellow prisoner suspected of spying for the Americans.
He also said guards "hit you hard in sensitive places, in the kidney, in the chest, in the throat."
"Our bodies were full of bruises. They didn't let us out of the cells until all our wounds had healed."
Military intelligence role questioned
The ranking Democrat on the House Intelligence Committee, Rep. Jane Harman of California, wrote a letter to Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld demanding a briefing on the role military intelligence officials may have played in the alleged abuse.
"The fog of war is thick, but these acts of abuse and humiliation contradict international norms, military regulations and the very values that our military fights to defend," Harman said in a statement.
A senior military official said Monday that six U.S. soldiers -- all officers or noncommissioned officers -- received reprimands on the orders of Lt. Gen. Ricardo Sanchez, the commander of U.S. forces in Iraq, after separate criminal and administration investigations into the alleged abuse.
Six other soldiers, who are members of the military police, face criminal charges, and other soldiers have been suspended pending the outcome of the investigations, the official said.
Sanchez has also opened an investigation into the role that military intelligence may have played in the alleged abuse, according to Brig. Gen. Mark Kimmitt, the coalition military spokesman in Baghdad.
The former commander of military police at U.S. prisons in Iraq, Brig. Gen. Janis Karpinski, said MPs were being given instructions by military intelligence.
"I don't know how they allowed these activities to get so far out of control, but I do know with absolute confidence that they didn't just wake up one day and decide to do this," she told CNN.
Karpinski, an Army reserve officer who has since rotated out of Iraq, was admonished before the investigation got under way, her attorney said.
"I certainly take responsibility for some of this, because those soldiers were assigned to a company under my command," Karpinski said. "I don't think the blame rests with me. In fact, it's unfair because we had 3,400 soldiers, and this was the only facility where interrogations were taking place, and this was the only facility with infractions."
But Kimmitt said that military intelligence was not responsible for "individual acts of criminal behavior" by MPs, which he termed "absolutely horrible, absolutely inexcusable."
"They made the choice to do that, and now they seem to be concerned about being caught," he said. "Those soldiers you see in the pictures let us down."
However, Kimmitt said Karpinski was "exactly right" that there are "concerns with military intelligence," which prompted Sanchez to open a third investigation.
"The first investigation, a criminal investigation from the Criminal Investigation Division, went after the individual conduct of the soldiers you see in those photographs," Kimmitt said. "The second investigation, an administrative investigation, looked into command policies and procedures, and from that there appeared to be issues with military intelligence as well."
In her letter to Rumsfeld, Harman requested a copy of Taguba's report on the criminal investigation, which she complained was not given to anyone on her committee, even though it was completed in February.
"As of yesterday, the report was still 'working its way' up the chain of command to senior Pentagon leaders," Harman said in her statement. "This is highly disturbing and raises questions about how seriously the administration and the White House were taking these allegations."
According to the Pentagon, about 10,000 Iraqi prisoners are being held by the United States at six major prison camps around the country, including Abu Ghraib.
CNN's Joe Johns, David Ensor and Mike Mount contributed to this report.

I just got that in an email from my weekly Epitah Newsletter. I skimmed most of it, and it's horrible what some of the US's soldiers are doing over there. Your thoughts on this?

Will
05-05-2004, 07:46 PM
The soldiers aren't doing it. It's the officers. And they're going to be severly persecuted when they come back to the states. The government's already promised that.

Blaze
05-05-2004, 09:22 PM
i heard about this and it's just sick. we are having enough problems in Iraq without our own officers trashing up matters even worse.

TeMpEsT
05-05-2004, 09:29 PM
It's just a reminder of what arrogant bastards we can be sometimes. We're just lowering ourselves and our reputation doing this. America is already highly unpopular due to this war, now it's rising in proportion.

Leslie
05-06-2004, 05:25 AM
Originally posted by Vanil4_Intel@May 5 2004, 02:29 PM
It's just a reminder of what arrogant bastards we can be sometimes. We're just lowering ourselves and our reputation doing this. America is already highly unpopular due to this war, now it's rising in proportion.
I agree with you... and this is why I want to move to Canada.

Phantom Duck
05-06-2004, 01:33 PM
Originally posted by Will@May 5 2004, 07:46 PM
The soldiers aren't doing it. It's the officers. And they're going to be severly persecuted when they come back to the states. The government's already promised that.
Since when do American governments keep their word?
:shifty:

Mr. Benzedrine
05-06-2004, 03:10 PM
Yeah i seen the pictures in the Newspaper, Like the prisoners getting pissed on and stuff, Sick :mellow:

ass_kicker
05-06-2004, 05:10 PM
WTF? excuse me, what right do the soldiers/officers have to torture the prisoners? its not like theyre better than them if they torture them. besides, anyone could torture somebody with a whole army. theyre not even brave enough to face the prisoners on their own.

Leones
05-06-2004, 05:48 PM
I've seen the pictures too and all I can say is that it's not human. Not human at all! when I saw it, it made me sick. I still can't believe that such a thing could have happend. It makes me really angry and sad.

ass_kicker
05-06-2004, 06:46 PM
it pisses me off when i think about the unfairness of this situation. WTf?

TeMpEsT
05-07-2004, 02:25 AM
Originally posted by Phantom The Duck VII+May 6 2004, 01:33 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Phantom The Duck VII @ May 6 2004, 01:33 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Will@May 5 2004, 07:46 PM
The soldiers aren&#39;t doing it. It&#39;s the officers. And they&#39;re going to be severly persecuted when they come back to the states. The government&#39;s already promised that.
Since when do American governments keep their word?
:shifty: [/b][/quote]
No kidding. :wth:

J-Flex
05-07-2004, 09:56 AM
i must say i was shocked of the news.....
not that it has been done,...because Saddam did that alot too and much worse,...like cutting ears, pulling out nails etc,...
but americans doing that,...never expected that,...

Phantom Duck
05-07-2004, 07:08 PM
Originally posted by J-Flex@May 7 2004, 09:56 AM
i must say i was shocked of the news.....
not that it has been done,...because Saddam did that alot too and much worse,...like cutting ears, pulling out nails etc,...
but americans doing that,...never expected that,...
Heh. Classical American propaganda: attributing actions they perform to their enemies.

ass_kicker
05-07-2004, 07:10 PM
can i see the pictures everybodys talking about?

J-Flex
05-07-2004, 07:14 PM
Originally posted by ass_kicker@May 7 2004, 07:10 PM
can i see the pictures everybodys talking about?
dont ask for warez on this forum *jk* :P

hmm no i dont think you would like to see them,....
specially when you know that its not taken from movies but they are real people...

ass_kicker
05-07-2004, 07:22 PM
Originally posted by J-Flex+May 7 2004, 07:14 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (J-Flex @ May 7 2004, 07:14 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--ass_kicker@May 7 2004, 07:10 PM
can i see the pictures everybodys talking about?
dont ask for warez on this forum *jk* :P

hmm no i dont think you would like to see them,....
specially when you know that its not taken from movies but they are real people... [/b][/quote]
hahah you sound like my mother... "...close your eyes on that bit, you dont want to see the dead bodies".




i wanna see :shifty:

Phantom Duck
05-07-2004, 08:04 PM
Originally posted by ass_kicker+May 7 2004, 07:22 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (ass_kicker @ May 7 2004, 07:22 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by -J-Flex@May 7 2004, 07:14 PM
<!--QuoteBegin--ass_kicker@May 7 2004, 07:10 PM
can i see the pictures everybodys talking about?
dont ask for warez on this forum *jk* :P

hmm no i dont think you would like to see them,....
specially when you know that its not taken from movies but they are real people...
hahah you sound like my mother... "...close your eyes on that bit, you dont want to see the dead bodies".




i wanna see :shifty: [/b][/quote]
Wow, Katie is a real S&M freak :lol:

I saw them on the paper, there&#39;s Black KKK-topped Iraquis forming Pyramids, being pissed on, being tied like dogs and kicked. What? Of course naked, Americans don&#39;t do half the work.

Omar A
05-08-2004, 12:41 AM
The abuse scandal at Abu Ghraib prison includes more photographs and videos that are potentially worse than the photos shown around the world of smiling American soldiers next to naked Iraqi prisoners in humiliating positions, U.S. officials said on Friday. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, at a Senate Armed Services Committee hearing, said there were many more photos and videotapes that had not been published showing cruel and sadistic acts by U.S. personnel.

So its actually worse than what we&#39;ve seen.

TeMpEsT
05-08-2004, 05:34 AM
Originally posted by Omar A@May 8 2004, 12:41 AM

The abuse scandal at Abu Ghraib prison includes more photographs and videos that are potentially worse than the photos shown around the world of smiling American soldiers next to naked Iraqi prisoners in humiliating positions, U.S. officials said on Friday. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, at a Senate Armed Services Committee hearing, said there were many more photos and videotapes that had not been published showing cruel and sadistic acts by U.S. personnel.

So its actually worse than what we&#39;ve seen.
Are you suprised that you&#39;re not seeing the truth in whole?

ass_kicker
05-08-2004, 09:02 AM
Originally posted by Phantom The Duck VII+May 7 2004, 08:04 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Phantom The Duck VII @ May 7 2004, 08:04 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by -ass_kicker@May 7 2004, 07:22 PM

Originally posted by -J-Flex@May 7 2004, 07:14 PM
<!--QuoteBegin--ass_kicker@May 7 2004, 07:10 PM
can i see the pictures everybodys talking about?
dont ask for warez on this forum *jk* :P

hmm no i dont think you would like to see them,....
specially when you know that its not taken from movies but they are real people...
hahah you sound like my mother... "...close your eyes on that bit, you dont want to see the dead bodies".




i wanna see :shifty:
Wow, Katie is a real S&M freak :lol:

I saw them on the paper, there&#39;s Black KKK-topped Iraquis forming Pyramids, being pissed on, being tied like dogs and kicked. What? Of course naked, Americans don&#39;t do half the work. [/b][/quote]
thats all?

i sound disappointed. im not, guys. im just asking.

Rachel
05-08-2004, 02:15 PM
Alright, I admit, our officers and soldiers did a very very very stupid thing.

But think about this now... Persident Bush *twitch* apoligized, and THAT is what seperates us from the Iraqis.

Did they apoligize when the Americans they injured in some bombing (can&#39;t remember what one my dad said it was), dragged them to their deaths, and burned them? NO&#33;

THAT is what seperates us from the Iraqi government. Yeah, I understand, we made a stupid mistake, a very inhumane mistake, and they WILL be punished... but really, do you think the Iraqis weren&#39;t expecting it?

And damn, I feel like I just went off topic and rambled... I&#39;ll just shut up now :lol:

Dedicated
05-08-2004, 05:03 PM
In the UK there&#39;s a lot of things circling the media about these photos... Basically the soldiers are saying that they are fake, or the ones about the UK soldiers, because of the way their shoe laces are tied, they&#39;re not correctly tied as they are supposed to be or soemthing...



Yeh...

Omar A
05-08-2004, 05:43 PM
Originally posted by Vanil4_Intel+May 8 2004, 05:34 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Vanil4_Intel @ May 8 2004, 05:34 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Omar A@May 8 2004, 12:41 AM

The abuse scandal at Abu Ghraib prison includes more photographs and videos that are potentially worse than the photos shown around the world of smiling American soldiers next to naked Iraqi prisoners in humiliating positions, U.S. officials said on Friday. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, at a Senate Armed Services Committee hearing, said there were many more photos and videotapes that had not been published showing cruel and sadistic acts by U.S. personnel.

So its actually worse than what we&#39;ve seen.
Are you suprised that you&#39;re not seeing the truth in whole? [/b][/quote]
:lol:

Not at all ;)


Did they apoligize when the Americans they injured in some bombing (can&#39;t remember what one my dad said it was), dragged them to their deaths, and burned them? NO&#33;

Its their country and they have the right to fight against the invaders. Hell I would burn a ###### that tries to break into my house, so why wouldn&#39;t they fight back to the people that are breaking into their houses?

Glenn
05-08-2004, 08:38 PM
That just makes me sick&#33; It makes me so ####### sick&#33;&#33; Holy ####&#33; Bush&#39;s apology won&#39;t help. Those officers should be killed. That horrifies me that they&#39;d do such a thing. No wonder they are attacking us&#33;

TeMpEsT
05-08-2004, 09:38 PM
Originally posted by Rachel@May 8 2004, 02:15 PM
Alright, I admit, our officers and soldiers did a very very very stupid thing.

But think about this now... Persident Bush *twitch* apoligized, and THAT is what seperates us from the Iraqis.

Did they apoligize when the Americans they injured in some bombing (can&#39;t remember what one my dad said it was), dragged them to their deaths, and burned them? NO&#33;

THAT is what seperates us from the Iraqi government. Yeah, I understand, we made a stupid mistake, a very inhumane mistake, and they WILL be punished... but really, do you think the Iraqis weren&#39;t expecting it?

And damn, I feel like I just went off topic and rambled... I&#39;ll just shut up now :lol:
Who would represent that? The little boy that was hitting our soldiers with shoes? :wth:

Phantom Duck
05-09-2004, 11:24 AM
Originally posted by TeMpEsT+May 8 2004, 09:38 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (TeMpEsT @ May 8 2004, 09:38 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Rachel@May 8 2004, 02:15 PM
Alright, I admit, our officers and soldiers did a very very very stupid thing.

But think about this now... Persident Bush *twitch* apoligized, and THAT is what seperates us from the Iraqis.

Did they apoligize when the Americans they injured in some bombing (can&#39;t remember what one my dad said it was), dragged them to their deaths, and burned them? NO&#33;

THAT is what seperates us from the Iraqi government. Yeah, I understand, we made a stupid mistake, a very inhumane mistake, and they WILL be punished... but really, do you think the Iraqis weren&#39;t expecting it?

And damn, I feel like I just went off topic and rambled... I&#39;ll just shut up now :lol:
Who would represent that? The little boy that was hitting our soldiers with shoes? :wth: [/b][/quote]
No, Iraq&#39;s WOMD which were so obviously found. :shifty:

ass_kicker
05-10-2004, 04:22 PM
so right now one of the soldiers is gonna go to trial right?

Radical Dreamer
05-11-2004, 01:59 AM
Originally posted by Rachel@May 8 2004, 02:15 PM
Alright, I admit, our officers and soldiers did a very very very stupid thing.

But think about this now... Persident Bush *twitch* apoligized, and THAT is what seperates us from the Iraqis.

Did they apoligize when the Americans they injured in some bombing (can&#39;t remember what one my dad said it was), dragged them to their deaths, and burned them? NO&#33;

THAT is what seperates us from the Iraqi government. Yeah, I understand, we made a stupid mistake, a very inhumane mistake, and they WILL be punished... but really, do you think the Iraqis weren&#39;t expecting it?

And damn, I feel like I just went off topic and rambled... I&#39;ll just shut up now :lol:
And you think his apology is sincere? Bush knew about this a LONG time ago. If he&#39;s genuinely sorry, he would&#39;ve apologized as soon as he learnt about it.

And no, I wouldn&#39;t say we&#39;re better than the Iraqis. In fact, I&#39;d probably say we&#39;re worse than Saddam and the insurgents put together.

1. Iraq didn&#39;t invite us over. We invited ourselves. If we&#39;re prepared to invade their territory, we should be prepared to take the consequences. I&#39;m not saying the death of those US contractors is justified, but what else do you expect? For them to invite us into their homes with welcome arms and serve us tea?

2. No, the Iraqis didn&#39;t apologize. And you shouldn&#39;t expect them to. Because they&#39;re not the good guys. They&#39;re not even the "so-called" good guys. We are. We claim to be the "liberators", bringing freedom, peace and democracy to Iraq. Good guys don&#39;t go around torturing people.

The death and mutilation of those US contractors really shocked me, but I wouldn&#39;t say it&#39;s out of the blue. If YOUR country had been bombed 24/7, if YOUR family and friends are being killed and cast off as "collateral damage", if it was YOU suffering from a lack of clean water, food, electricity, if it was YOU having foreigners in your country armed with guns and explosives, shoving you around or telling you what to do in your OWN home, you&#39;d probably flip as well. What the Iraqis did to those contractors was vile, but let&#39;s just say this war has destroyed their soul completely. There&#39;s no humanity left in them, and it&#39;s all our fault.