abortion...yes or no?

[acetaminophen]

Regarding an abortion, it seems that people's opinions are generally cataloged as three parts. Such as,

1. No abortion in any cases. It is a murder.

2. Women who are involved should have the right to do whatever they want to. It is a personal matter.

3. Case by case. In case of rapes, abortion should be allowed. But other cases, it should be not.

Where is your opinion in?
Or Do you think differently?

:unsure: :unsure: :unsure:

[Todd]

2. It's their life, the government shouldn't stop them. Plus, if she can admit that she wouldn't be able to provide a good life for her kid and wants it aborted, well, then chances are, the kid is better off aborted than growing up under poor conditions with bad parents

[Ander]

I'm for abortion when it's necessary (rape and other sexual crimes, etc)

For things like teen pregancy and adultery, I think the burden of an unwanted child should serve as punishment for making bad decisions.

[Cal]

I look at abortion in 2 ways

There are people, like young girls around 15/16, who get pregnant, and cant afford to raise the baby, and dont want it to live a bad life, and because their so young, cant handle being a mum

Theres people who got pregnant at like 30 and their like oh #### i cant be assed with it, well woman, its your fault, deal with it.

[Alacrity]

#3

People that have kids know before anything that there is a chance of getting pregnant. Its their consicious choice. The baby didn't do anything! Why should it be killed? Live with the consequences.

But...people that can't make that choice (rape victims) that are forced into it, I believe the option of abortion should be there, unless the parent wants to keep it (but I seriously doubt that).

[ass_kicker]

id say women should be allowed to do whatever they want. if they would like an abortion, it should be legal, but maybe there should be someone who could talk about the consequences before doing it for the girl/woman.

[Radical Dreamer]

I think in most cases, abortion should be allowed, especially when the fetus is not fully developed. Think about it. There are already enough orphans and abandoned kids in care homes, the world is already overpopulated so why add onto the burden? Let's deal with what we already have. Although this is no excuse to 'murder' an unborned child, it's more practical. Also, teenagers should be allowed to have an abortion because their bodies is not ready to cope with giving birth. It severely deprives them of essential nutrients (baby feeds off the mother) and it stretches their body beyond repair so that's not a good idea. Abortions should always be allowed for victims of rape, unless the victim actually wants to keep the baby. Just a collection of my thoughts and opinions jumbled up together. :) Abortion is much harder to argue for/against than any ethical issues I know of.

[Debus]

Well that is a tough question. In a way it is bad because yes, you are actaualy killing a new life but if the parent cannot handle the responsobility of them or has them adopted the child may have mental scars from it and would have been better off being aborted. I don't think its right but in some cases it has to be done. I'm not gonna start ranting and raving about the wrongs of it cuz i am not that kind of person but if there is a dire need for an abortion then i am all for it

[dips]

Did you guys now that abortions will ruin your insides? And that it can kill you?

I believe that if teens are going to have sex, then they should deal with it. There choice to do it unprotected, or being stupid about it, it's a punishiment.

In rape cases it should be allowed.

Just a question: What if they father wants to KEEP the child? Should he just.... give into what the mother wants? I mean, it takes two to makea a baby, and it should take TWO to decide what happens.

There are people out there that would just LOVE to ADOPT a child, if you can't afford the child, then give it up. Don't kill it.
It's a hell of a lot more responisble to put through until the end and give it up then to just kill it. It's running away from your problems, how mature is that?

[Derek The Infamous]

Exactly. Danielle hit the nail on the hammer there. If you don't want the child, give it up for adoption. Don't kill it when it could grow up to be a very amazing boy or girl. There are some people who can absolutely not have children because the father's sperm is ####ed up, or the mom is incapable of having children. If you would give the child up for adoption, that mother may just have the child she's always wanted.

Sure the kid wouldn't live with his real parents, but at least he wouldn't be killed before he was even born.

[Will]

I say that it's up to the person carrying the child. Government shouldn't interfere with a person's body. That's infringing on privacy.

[dips]

But what about the guy!?

[Phantom Duck]

Abortion: only in cases where the child is going to be phsically or mentally ill and may have problems during it's upbringing. For any other reason, no.
You have a baby you didn't want (ok, excluding rapes etc.)? Your problem. Face the results of being irresponsible.

[ass_kicker]

so you're saying that if the soon to be mom doesnt want the kid, she still needs to face the consequences. but think about it, wouldnt the kid be unhappy then? it wouldnt have a normal family then... i dont know. maybe im wrong. get back to me.

[dips]

Originally posted by ass_kicker@Feb 16 2004, 12:23 PM
so you're saying that if the soon to be mom doesnt want the kid, she still needs to face the consequences. but think about it, wouldnt the kid be unhappy then? it wouldnt have a normal family then... i dont know. maybe im wrong. get back to me.
I've hardly ever been happy. I hate my life, my family, friends, and sh*t like that, but I deal with life.

Life isn't fair, but we gotta deal with it.

Be irrisponsible, face the consequences of your actions. Later on in life you'll be saying the same thing to your kids.

They are people who are sad, and they are people who are happy. Depends on how you're raised. If we are sad we have ways of changing that, but most of us are too scared because of what will happen. This is our choice.

Abortion should be a choice, but sometimes people just need to learn a fu*king lesson. Our generation has become waaay too babied and it's time we grew the f*ck up.

[Anthony.]

#3

If it's because an accident happened (eg : condom blew up) it's ok. But if it's because you were too lazy to actually take the time to get one, face the music.

[Mark]

Originally posted by Avenger@Feb 16 2004, 06:31 PM
#3

If it's because an accident happened (eg : condom blew up) it's ok. But if it's because you were too lazy to actually take the time to get one, face the music.
Lmfao, you make it sound like it exploded. Condoms aren't packed with gunpowder. :lol:

Only in cases where it was unintentional (accidents, rapes, etc) is when I think it's fine. But if it was just because they don't want the child, it should be the joint agreement between both people to get rid of the child. If they hadn't of messed around, there wouldn't be a kid anyways, so they should both agree on the decision of abortion. Now, if one person disagrees, a fair trial should be put up in court before the baby is conceived.

[Anthony.]

Originally posted by Mark+Feb 16 2004, 05:05 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Mark @ Feb 16 2004, 05:05 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Avenger@Feb 16 2004, 06:31 PM
#3

If it&#39;s because an accident happened (eg : condom blew up) it&#39;s ok. But if it&#39;s because you were too lazy to actually take the time to get one, face the music.
Lmfao, you make it sound like it exploded. Condoms aren&#39;t packed with gunpowder. :lol:

Only in cases where it was unintentional (accidents, rapes, etc) is when I think it&#39;s fine. But if it was just because they don&#39;t want the child, it should be the joint agreement between both people to get rid of the child. If they hadn&#39;t of messed around, there wouldn&#39;t be a kid anyways, so they should both agree on the decision of abortion. Now, if one person disagrees, a fair trial should be put up in court before the baby is conceived. [/b][/quote]
When you see a teacher making it blow like a baloon you start to say it this way :lol: .

[Trish]

I am not sure what I think...but I&#39;ll be empathetic.
I guess if I was in the situation of being raped or had sex or something, I wouldn&#39;t want the kid. So I would get an abortion, but I guess it&#39;s kind of different if it&#39;s you.

[emmmers]

#2. Better abortion than a kid who grows up abandoned and unloved. Its as simple as that.

[Hybrid Soldier]

Originally posted by dips@Feb 16 2004, 02:00 PM
But what about the guy&#33;?
well if the girl was raped, then the guy has no saying what so ever.
if it wasnt, the guy still shouldnt have a say because im not sure the girl would have sex only to give the guy a baby. *shrugs*

[Whimsicality]

#3. If a 15 year old girl is raped, she should be able to have an abortion. She&#39;s phsycally and mentally unready to raise a child. A bad situation, as a whole.

But if some 17 year old is ####### her boyfriend, and her birth control doesn&#39;t work, I think she needs to keep the kid. You have sex, you&#39;re taking the risk of getting pregant, plain and simple.

[lpcrash]

i think the child should be aborted if it cannot be raised properly

But if some 17 year old is ####### her boyfriend, and her birth control doesn&#39;t work, I think she needs to keep the kid. You have sex, you&#39;re taking the risk of getting pregant, plain and simple.
even if the child is given birth, it wouldn&#39;t be a life worth living for him, his parents wouldn&#39;t love him and would be considered as something born out of a mistake :wth:

[Phantom Duck]

Originally posted by dips+Feb 16 2004, 09:23 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (dips @ Feb 16 2004, 09:23 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--ass_kicker@Feb 16 2004, 12:23 PM
so you&#39;re saying that if the soon to be mom doesnt want the kid, she still needs to face the consequences. but think about it, wouldnt the kid be unhappy then? it wouldnt have a normal family then... i dont know. maybe im wrong. get back to me.
I&#39;ve hardly ever been happy. I hate my life, my family, friends, and sh*t like that, but I deal with life.

Life isn&#39;t fair, but we gotta deal with it.

Be irrisponsible, face the consequences of your actions. Later on in life you&#39;ll be saying the same thing to your kids.

They are people who are sad, and they are people who are happy. Depends on how you&#39;re raised. If we are sad we have ways of changing that, but most of us are too scared because of what will happen. This is our choice.

Abortion should be a choice, but sometimes people just need to learn a fu*king lesson. Our generation has become waaay too babied and it&#39;s time we grew the f*ck up. [/b][/quote]
Ditto.

[Eilonwy]

I think abortion should only be allowed if the pregnancy means serious health risks for the mother or if the child is going to be severly disabled either physically or mentally. If the pregnancy is the result of a rape, then abortion should be considered if the mother wants one.

If a girl gets pregnant because she and her boyfriend were irresponsible, then they should have to face the consequences. People need to learn to own up to their mistakes. I get sick of the phrase "It&#39;s not my fault."

[arT saveS]

I have so many views on this...

First of all, abortion should be the woman&#39;s decision. We guys will never know the pain of pregnancy, and if a woman does have sex, and they don&#39;t want that pain, or if they just don&#39;t want a kid, then they should be allowed to have an abortion.

On the other hand, this woman, if she hadn&#39;t wanted a child, should have made the man wear a condom, or not have had sex at all. And if she did, and she still got pregnant, than that would be her fault. Condoms don&#39;t promise to protect against: HIV, AIDS, VD, Yeast Infection, any sexual disease, or pregnancy. They are to provide help to stop pregnancy, thats it. Once a man puts on a condom the woman made him put on, they agree that the condom may not prevent pregnancy.

If the woman was mature, she wouldn&#39;t have an abortion, because you are killing a living being, whether it has seen the world or not.

I don&#39;t care if someone hasn&#39;t had the baby yet, and I hate it when people say "well it&#39;s not been born yet." Uh, can you even imagine that pain that baby goes thorugh? When that embryo, fetus, whatever it at the moment, hey as soon as its a fetus it can feel, it feels pain, I mean c`mon its being killed, it feels the same thing as we would if we we&#39;re shot in the head, but not killed instantly, instead over weeks we feel pain from that. A embryo, nor anything else in a mother&#39;s body dies instantly, no matter what. Not if it chokes itself with the umbilical cord, not if it starves, not if it dies from lack of blood..no matter what it feels pain. So think of it this way, abortion = taking a baby in your hand, and stabbing it.

Think about it. It doesn&#39;t matter if you we&#39;re raped or not, you can have an adoption.

I don&#39;t think people should have an abortion, but it should be there choice, they shouldn&#39;t banned from it.

The only, and I mean only, time I would think it right, well still not right, but the best option, to have an abortion is if the mom was going to die because of the birth. If she didn&#39;t, the mom would die, and the chances of the baby living after birth would be slim.

No matter what it&#39;s not right, but it should be your choice.

[emmmers]

#3 would be the ideal choice but it&#39;s virtually impossible. I mean, who&#39;s gonna have the time to investigate pregnancies? And girls are definately gonna take advantage and say she was raped even if it was just a birthcontrol problem.

[F-ck Casey]

I&#39;m Pro-Choice, so naturally, I&#39;m for abortion.

My reasoning is simple. The parents created the baby, and a child, no matter what age, really can&#39;t make it&#39;s own decisions until it&#39;s a legal adult (18), so it&#39;s up to the parents.

Now, I&#39;m only for abortion when it comes to right out of the womb babies. Not like, a year old baby.

But they really could find a better & quicker way to abort the babies, rather than just slicing & dicing.

[Whimsicality]

Originally posted by When.Karma.Attacks@Feb 18 2004, 12:32 AM
And girls are definately gonna take advantage and say she was raped even if it was just a birthcontrol problem.
That is completely true. I know that I said #3 above, but it is virtually impossible.

[Radical Dreamer]

Originally posted by In.My.Skin@Feb 17 2004, 10:52 PM
I have so many views on this...

First of all, abortion should be the woman&#39;s decision. We guys will never know the pain of pregnancy, and if a woman does have sex, and they don&#39;t want that pain, or if they just don&#39;t want a kid, then they should be allowed to have an abortion.

On the other hand, this woman, if she hadn&#39;t wanted a child, should have made the man wear a condom, or not have had sex at all. And if she did, and she still got pregnant, than that would be her fault. Condoms don&#39;t promise to protect against: HIV, AIDS, VD, Yeast Infection, any sexual disease, or pregnancy. They are to provide help to stop pregnancy, thats it. Once a man puts on a condom the woman made him put on, they agree that the condom may not prevent pregnancy.

If the woman was mature, she wouldn&#39;t have an abortion, because you are killing a living being, whether it has seen the world or not.

I don&#39;t care if someone hasn&#39;t had the baby yet, and I hate it when people say "well it&#39;s not been born yet." Uh, can you even imagine that pain that baby goes thorugh? When that embryo, fetus, whatever it at the moment, hey as soon as its a fetus it can feel, it feels pain, I mean c`mon its being killed, it feels the same thing as we would if we we&#39;re shot in the head, but not killed instantly, instead over weeks we feel pain from that. A embryo, nor anything else in a mother&#39;s body dies instantly, no matter what. Not if it chokes itself with the umbilical cord, not if it starves, not if it dies from lack of blood..no matter what it feels pain. So think of it this way, abortion = taking a baby in your hand, and stabbing it.

Think about it. It doesn&#39;t matter if you we&#39;re raped or not, you can have an adoption.

I don&#39;t think people should have an abortion, but it should be there choice, they shouldn&#39;t banned from it.

The only, and I mean only, time I would think it right, well still not right, but the best option, to have an abortion is if the mom was going to die because of the birth. If she didn&#39;t, the mom would die, and the chances of the baby living after birth would be slim.

No matter what it&#39;s not right, but it should be your choice.
1. Most of the time I&#39;m pro-choice but like I&#39;ve said, it depends heavily on the circumstances.

2. An embryo is just a collection of cells. It feels no pain because its nerve system is not yet developed. A living organism can only feel pain if it has a nerve system; hence embryos feel no pain. With a fetus, this might be different. I&#39;m not sure at what stage of the baby&#39;s life his/her nerves are developed but before that, I think it&#39;s okay to abort the pregnancy.

3. I&#39;m a girl so obviously I&#39;m a bit biased as to who should have a say. I agree that sometimes both the guy and the girl should decide whether to give up the child but I&#39;m inclined to think the girl has more right because SHE&#39;S the one who&#39;s going to squeeze the baby from between her legs, she&#39;s the one who will be giving nutrients to the baby, ultimately, she&#39;s the one who has to deal with the pain. The guy has nothing to lose. Not to mention in most cases of teenage pregnancies, the guys don&#39;t give a s##t about the girl or the child.

[Cassie]

#3

The girl came to the decision to have sex. Unless she was in different circumstances like rape or another situation where sex was forced upon her. And when she came to that decision, she should have been aware of the consequences and how they could affect her life. For her to be pregnant because of that decision, is her fault and her&#39;s alone. She should not look to abortion as a "Get Out Of Jail" free card. It&#39;s unfortunate I&#39;m sure, but you need to take the necessary precautions. Or practise abstinence. With abortion, you&#39;re killing a life. And it could have side effects which could haunt you later, ex; infertility. All in all, I believe if you&#39;re not ready to take on the responsiblity or possibility of carrying or having a child, stay away from sex. It&#39;s all too simple. You can wait with sex.

[arT saveS]

Originally posted by Radical Dreamer+Feb 17 2004, 08:15 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Radical Dreamer @ Feb 17 2004, 08:15 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--In.My.Skin@Feb 17 2004, 10:52 PM
I have so many views on this...

First of all, abortion should be the woman&#39;s decision.* We guys will never know the pain of pregnancy, and if a woman does have sex, and they don&#39;t want that pain, or if they just don&#39;t want a kid, then they should be allowed to have an abortion.

On the other hand, this woman, if she hadn&#39;t wanted a child, should have made the man wear a condom, or not have had sex at all.* And if she did, and she still got pregnant, than that would be her fault.* Condoms don&#39;t promise to protect against: HIV, AIDS, VD, Yeast Infection, any sexual disease, or pregnancy.* They are to provide help to stop pregnancy, thats it.* Once a man puts on a condom the woman made him put on, they agree that the condom may not prevent pregnancy.*

If the woman was mature, she wouldn&#39;t have an abortion, because you are killing a living being, whether it has seen the world or not.

I don&#39;t care if someone hasn&#39;t had the baby yet, and I hate it when people say "well it&#39;s not been born yet."* Uh, can you even imagine that pain that baby goes thorugh?* When that embryo, fetus, whatever it at the moment, hey as soon as its a fetus it can feel, it feels pain, I mean c`mon its being killed, it feels the same thing as we would if we we&#39;re shot in the head, but not killed instantly, instead over weeks we feel pain from that.* A embryo, nor anything else in a mother&#39;s body dies instantly, no matter what.* Not if it chokes itself with the umbilical cord, not if it starves, not if it dies from lack of blood..no matter what it feels pain.* So think of it this way, abortion = taking a baby in your hand, and stabbing it.

Think about it. It doesn&#39;t matter if you we&#39;re raped or not, you can have an adoption.

I don&#39;t think people should have an abortion, but it should be there choice, they shouldn&#39;t banned from it.*

The only, and I mean only, time I would think it right, well still not right, but the best option, to have an abortion is if the mom was going to die because of the birth.* If she didn&#39;t, the mom would die, and the chances of the baby living after birth would be slim.

No matter what it&#39;s not right, but it should be your choice.

2. An embryo is just a collection of cells. It feels no pain because its nerve system is not yet developed. A living organism can only feel pain if it has a nerve system; hence embryos feel no pain. With a fetus, this might be different. I&#39;m not sure at what stage of the baby&#39;s life his/her nerves are developed but before that, I think it&#39;s okay to abort the pregnancy.

[/b][/quote]
OK...oops. But still, you develop a nervous system inside the womb, correct? So depending when you had the abortion, the baby could feel pain. What about when the nervous system is developed or whatever? I&#39;m not scientist...nor a embryo...but I bet that it would feel pain, after all it is being murdered, and though I&#39;ve never been murdered either, I bet it would sting. My point was there&#39;s still a chance your hurting it then, whether it&#39;s an embryo or not. Also, there is no way to prove whether it can feel, or not feel, while it&#39;s an embro, because no one in the world can remember being one, hence; they wouldn&#39;t know...am I right? I may be wrong..but I&#39;m pretty sure I&#39;m right.

The only way we would know, is if there was a person born with no nervous system...and maybe someone has been, and they tested them...then I would be proven wrong, but I don&#39;t know of anyone who has been born like that.

And cells are living, so no matter what your killing something.

[Radical Dreamer]

Originally posted by In.My.Skin+Feb 18 2004, 10:06 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (In.My.Skin @ Feb 18 2004, 10:06 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by -Radical Dreamer@Feb 17 2004, 08:15 PM
<!--QuoteBegin--In.My.Skin@Feb 17 2004, 10:52 PM
I have so many views on this...

First of all, abortion should be the woman&#39;s decision.* We guys will never know the pain of pregnancy, and if a woman does have sex, and they don&#39;t want that pain, or if they just don&#39;t want a kid, then they should be allowed to have an abortion.

On the other hand, this woman, if she hadn&#39;t wanted a child, should have made the man wear a condom, or not have had sex at all.* And if she did, and she still got pregnant, than that would be her fault.* Condoms don&#39;t promise to protect against: HIV, AIDS, VD, Yeast Infection, any sexual disease, or pregnancy.* They are to provide help to stop pregnancy, thats it.* Once a man puts on a condom the woman made him put on, they agree that the condom may not prevent pregnancy.*

If the woman was mature, she wouldn&#39;t have an abortion, because you are killing a living being, whether it has seen the world or not.

I don&#39;t care if someone hasn&#39;t had the baby yet, and I hate it when people say "well it&#39;s not been born yet."* Uh, can you even imagine that pain that baby goes thorugh?* When that embryo, fetus, whatever it at the moment, hey as soon as its a fetus it can feel, it feels pain, I mean c`mon its being killed, it feels the same thing as we would if we we&#39;re shot in the head, but not killed instantly, instead over weeks we feel pain from that.* A embryo, nor anything else in a mother&#39;s body dies instantly, no matter what.* Not if it chokes itself with the umbilical cord, not if it starves, not if it dies from lack of blood..no matter what it feels pain.* So think of it this way, abortion = taking a baby in your hand, and stabbing it.

Think about it. It doesn&#39;t matter if you we&#39;re raped or not, you can have an adoption.

I don&#39;t think people should have an abortion, but it should be there choice, they shouldn&#39;t banned from it.*

The only, and I mean only, time I would think it right, well still not right, but the best option, to have an abortion is if the mom was going to die because of the birth.* If she didn&#39;t, the mom would die, and the chances of the baby living after birth would be slim.

No matter what it&#39;s not right, but it should be your choice.

2. An embryo is just a collection of cells. It feels no pain because its nerve system is not yet developed. A living organism can only feel pain if it has a nerve system; hence embryos feel no pain. With a fetus, this might be different. I&#39;m not sure at what stage of the baby&#39;s life his/her nerves are developed but before that, I think it&#39;s okay to abort the pregnancy.


OK...oops. But still, you develop a nervous system inside the womb, correct? So depending when you had the abortion, the baby could feel pain. What about when the nervous system is developed or whatever? I&#39;m not scientist...nor a embryo...but I bet that it would feel pain, after all it is being murdered, and though I&#39;ve never been murdered either, I bet it would sting. My point was there&#39;s still a chance your hurting it then, whether it&#39;s an embryo or not. Also, there is no way to prove whether it can feel, or not feel, while it&#39;s an embro, because no one in the world can remember being one, hence; they wouldn&#39;t know...am I right? I may be wrong..but I&#39;m pretty sure I&#39;m right.

The only way we would know, is if there was a person born with no nervous system...and maybe someone has been, and they tested them...then I would be proven wrong, but I don&#39;t know of anyone who has been born like that.

And cells are living, so no matter what your killing something. [/b][/quote]
Abortion shouldn&#39;t be allowed after a certain number of weeks when the nervous system IS developed and when the heart, brain, lungs and everything are properly in place.


And cells are living, so no matter what your killing something.

A collection of cells is not the same as a fully developped fetus.

[emmmers]

Geez lets not get too scientifical here. It&#39;s someone else&#39;s baby, they choose to kill it, get over it. Call me coldhearted, but I dont give a damn about what some stranger does with their embryos. Having children should be a cherished thing in a marriage, and if people choose to ignore that, you cant change their opinions.

[lp_dreamer]

A few years ago a friend of mine got pregnant and aborted when she was only 13. She did it all without her parents knowing and i dont think they would know now. i think it was her own fault and she will have to live with the guilt for the rest of her life, but the situation was weird sinse she was just following her best friend who also had sex with a 17 year old but she got unlucky and was pregnant. i have no idea what i would have done in that situation but she was really young and the father didnt want anything to do with it. it really is the persons own choice i dont think anyone has the right to tell you what you can do with your baby.

[arT saveS]

Originally posted by Radical Dreamer+Feb 19 2004, 06:15 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Radical Dreamer @ Feb 19 2004, 06:15 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by -In.My.Skin@Feb 18 2004, 10:06 PM

Originally posted by -Radical Dreamer@Feb 17 2004, 08:15 PM
<!--QuoteBegin--In.My.Skin@Feb 17 2004, 10:52 PM
I have so many views on this...

First of all, abortion should be the woman&#39;s decision.* We guys will never know the pain of pregnancy, and if a woman does have sex, and they don&#39;t want that pain, or if they just don&#39;t want a kid, then they should be allowed to have an abortion.

On the other hand, this woman, if she hadn&#39;t wanted a child, should have made the man wear a condom, or not have had sex at all.* And if she did, and she still got pregnant, than that would be her fault.* Condoms don&#39;t promise to protect against: HIV, AIDS, VD, Yeast Infection, any sexual disease, or pregnancy.* They are to provide help to stop pregnancy, thats it.* Once a man puts on a condom the woman made him put on, they agree that the condom may not prevent pregnancy.*

If the woman was mature, she wouldn&#39;t have an abortion, because you are killing a living being, whether it has seen the world or not.

I don&#39;t care if someone hasn&#39;t had the baby yet, and I hate it when people say "well it&#39;s not been born yet."* Uh, can you even imagine that pain that baby goes thorugh?* When that embryo, fetus, whatever it at the moment, hey as soon as its a fetus it can feel, it feels pain, I mean c`mon its being killed, it feels the same thing as we would if we we&#39;re shot in the head, but not killed instantly, instead over weeks we feel pain from that.* A embryo, nor anything else in a mother&#39;s body dies instantly, no matter what.* Not if it chokes itself with the umbilical cord, not if it starves, not if it dies from lack of blood..no matter what it feels pain.* So think of it this way, abortion = taking a baby in your hand, and stabbing it.

Think about it. It doesn&#39;t matter if you we&#39;re raped or not, you can have an adoption.

I don&#39;t think people should have an abortion, but it should be there choice, they shouldn&#39;t banned from it.*

The only, and I mean only, time I would think it right, well still not right, but the best option, to have an abortion is if the mom was going to die because of the birth.* If she didn&#39;t, the mom would die, and the chances of the baby living after birth would be slim.

No matter what it&#39;s not right, but it should be your choice.

2. An embryo is just a collection of cells. It feels no pain because its nerve system is not yet developed. A living organism can only feel pain if it has a nerve system; hence embryos feel no pain. With a fetus, this might be different. I&#39;m not sure at what stage of the baby&#39;s life his/her nerves are developed but before that, I think it&#39;s okay to abort the pregnancy.


OK...oops. But still, you develop a nervous system inside the womb, correct? So depending when you had the abortion, the baby could feel pain. What about when the nervous system is developed or whatever? I&#39;m not scientist...nor a embryo...but I bet that it would feel pain, after all it is being murdered, and though I&#39;ve never been murdered either, I bet it would sting. My point was there&#39;s still a chance your hurting it then, whether it&#39;s an embryo or not. Also, there is no way to prove whether it can feel, or not feel, while it&#39;s an embro, because no one in the world can remember being one, hence; they wouldn&#39;t know...am I right? I may be wrong..but I&#39;m pretty sure I&#39;m right.

The only way we would know, is if there was a person born with no nervous system...and maybe someone has been, and they tested them...then I would be proven wrong, but I don&#39;t know of anyone who has been born like that.

And cells are living, so no matter what your killing something.
Abortion shouldn&#39;t be allowed after a certain number of weeks when the nervous system IS developed and when the heart, brain, lungs and everything are properly in place.


And cells are living, so no matter what your killing something.

A collection of cells is not the same as a fully developped fetus. [/b][/quote]
You got me.













So what, I&#39;m still right&#33;&#33;&#33; :P

[Radical Dreamer]

Originally posted by In.My.Skin@Feb 20 2004, 10:17 PM
So what, I&#39;m still right&#33;&#33;&#33; :P
I saw that one coming. :rolleyes:

[arT saveS]

Originally posted by Radical Dreamer+Feb 20 2004, 05:33 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Radical Dreamer @ Feb 20 2004, 05:33 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--In.My.Skin@Feb 20 2004, 10:17 PM
So what, I&#39;m still right&#33;&#33;&#33;* :P
I saw that one coming. :rolleyes: [/b][/quote]
Well...I still love you..

[LornVourkolakas]

I can&#39;t choose any.

On one hand, if someone is willing to have sex while knowing the consequences, they should suffer those consequences. Like they say: you do the crime, you do the time.

There is a downside to this. If someone has a kid but doesn&#39;t want it, chances are that kid will live a horrible life. The parents would likely neglect the child or abuse it or put it up for adoption.

Off topic: Adoption is another thing I&#39;m not sure of. It could affect a child in many ways. Knowing that their real parents didn&#39;t love them and that they were living a lie. But than again, it could be a good thing. For the child is living a life with those who love him/her.

I do think that those who have been forced to be pregnant should be allowed to abort this child. Adoption could be another choice, but again, there are ups and downs to that, in my opinon.

What I do know is: if someone had to choose between dying and having a child, they should have the right to choose what they want. Some women wouldn&#39;t survive giving birth, so have to result to other things. Or perhaps a woman has a disease and knowing giving birth results to passing this disease down to their child. Therefore, this woman would rather to have a abortion than to have this child live a life of that kind.

I&#39;m sort of neutral with abortion. Never have I had a experience with abortion. So I can&#39;t say I&#39;m with it or against it. *Shrugs*

[Nowhere Kid]

All I can say is, that unless you&#39;re a rape victim, you were somewhat willing to have sex and abortion is murder in that case. It&#39;s your fault for getting yourself pregnant and you&#39;ll have to live with it.

[Burning Nineveh]

Guys let me just tell you something no matter what you look at it like


Abortion is an life


SINCE 1973 53 million children have been aborted

53 freaking million

A woman has no right and i mean no right to kill an person its not her right to decide that. For all you people who think abortion is harmless i can tell you the entire process and trust me youll think diferent. If women have been d or abused theres a thing called a foster home we dont do a crime to pay for the other crime.

[Mark]

Why should they go through the pain and suffering of child birth for something they obviously didn&#39;t want? I&#39;ve been told child birth is one of the most excruciating things a woman can experience, so I think they have the total right to control whatever is developing in their bodies.

[Burning Nineveh]

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid103/pae43573a92c444bbf370dc43b0db14fa/f9afe6c3.jpg


This is an ad i designed

[LornVourkolakas]

Originally posted by Burning Nineveh@Feb 22 2004, 07:36 PM
Guys let me just tell you something no matter what you look at it like


Abortion is an life


SINCE 1973 53 million children have been aborted

53 freaking million

A woman has no right and i mean no right to kill an person its not her right to decide that. For all you people who think abortion is harmless i can tell you the entire process and trust me youll think diferent. If women have been d or abused theres a thing called a foster home we dont do a crime to pay for the other crime.
I still thing if a woman has a disease and doesn&#39;t want to pass it down to the child, that she has the right to abort that child. I mean, what type of life the kid will live, anyways. That is, if the kid survives the birth.

[Mark]

Originally posted by Burning Nineveh@Feb 22 2004, 04:10 PM
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid103/pae43573a92c444bbf370dc43b0db14fa/f9afe6c3.jpg


This is an ad i designed
Good thing I posted a few seconds before you, because you would&#39;ve broken the double-post rule. Please use the edit button.

[Burning Nineveh]

But it still was inocent Im not angry btw its just this is one of those areas in my life where im really pasionate about :)

[LornVourkolakas]

Originally posted by Burning Nineveh@Feb 22 2004, 07:42 PM
But it still was inocent Im not angry btw its just this is one of those areas in my life where im really pasionate about :)
The way I look at it: If I were pregnant and had aids. Why would I want to give birth to a child who will have aids? Why would I want to burden my child with that? I wouldn&#39;t. That&#39;s just me.

I know it is a innocent. But innocents don&#39;t deserve a life like that. That is just my opinion.

[ass_kicker]

i agree with lorn. maybe its unfair to kill innocent babies... but dudes, its unfair to force them to live through hell if they will have a disease like aids or whatever crap.
i might be wrong.

[Burning Nineveh]

The reason my oppinion seems a little far off i guess is because im a christian and i believe in sanctity of life in all forms.

[ass_kicker]

hmm... im a christian too... i guess... is that what you&#39;re supoessed to believe in? yeah, church does say aborion is wrong.

[Mark]

Originally posted by ass_kicker@Feb 22 2004, 04:49 PM
hmm... im a christian too... i guess... is that what you&#39;re supoessed to believe in? yeah, church does say aborion is wrong.
The church also says homosexuality is wrong. Are you going to think for yourself or let the church control you?

Abortion should be the mother&#39;s choice, in my opinion.

[LornVourkolakas]

Originally posted by Mark+Feb 22 2004, 08:23 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Mark @ Feb 22 2004, 08:23 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--ass_kicker@Feb 22 2004, 04:49 PM
hmm... im a christian too... i guess... is that what you&#39;re supoessed to believe in? yeah, church does say aborion is wrong.
The church also says homosexuality is wrong. Are you going to think for yourself or let the church control you?

Abortion should be the mother&#39;s choice, in my opinion. [/b][/quote]
I agree with you, Mark.

If you are not going to be pro-abortion. Don&#39;t let it be for the wrong reasons.

[Burning Nineveh]

Homose xuality is wrong in my oppinion

Gay marriage is an oxy moron haha but thats another topic

[Will]

Originally posted by Burning Nineveh@Feb 22 2004, 04:04 PM
Homose xuality is wrong in my oppinion

Gay marriage is an oxy moron haha but thats another topic
:rolleyes:













I say we launch all people who can&#39;t think for themselves into the sun.

[Burning Nineveh]

How am i not thinking for myself :wth:

[Will]

Originally posted by Burning Nineveh@Feb 22 2004, 04:19 PM
How am i not thinking for myself :wth:
You&#39;re letting your church control your views and if you try to tell me that your church isn&#39;t controlling your views then I&#39;ll launch you into the sun anyway.

[Burning Nineveh]

I have my own beliefs i dont let the church control me

Yes i am a christian
Yes i believe in God
But i never let my thoughts or action be controlled by the church thats Gods job not theirs

[LornVourkolakas]

Yet another person who will hate me because of something I cannot control.

Lets all throw a party..

[F-ck Casey]

Originally posted by Will+Feb 22 2004, 03:16 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Will @ Feb 22 2004, 03:16 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Burning Nineveh@Feb 22 2004, 04:04 PM
Homose xuality is wrong in my oppinion

Gay marriage is an oxy moron haha but thats another topic
:rolleyes:













I say we launch all people who can&#39;t think for themselves into the sun. [/b][/quote]
you know how many teenagers we&#39;d lose?

[Will]

Originally posted by Casey+Feb 22 2004, 04:29 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Casey @ Feb 22 2004, 04:29 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by -Will@Feb 22 2004, 03:16 PM
<!--QuoteBegin--Burning Nineveh@Feb 22 2004, 04:04 PM
Homose xuality is wrong in my oppinion

Gay marriage is an oxy moron* haha but thats another topic
:rolleyes:













I say we launch all people who can&#39;t think for themselves into the sun.
you know how many teenagers we&#39;d lose? [/b][/quote]
It would probably be for the better.

[LornVourkolakas]

Originally posted by Casey@Feb 22 2004, 09:29 PM














I say we launch all people who can&#39;t think for themselves into the sun.
you know how many teenagers we&#39;d lose? [/quote]
You know how much room my school would have? Man, launch them &#33; NOW &#33;

[Burning Nineveh]

I agree yes alot of people let the church control them but in the issue of homos exuality its pretty clear, its wrong

Marriage is between a man and a woman
last time i checked man and man didnt equal a couple

also if we just let them have their marriage whats gonna stop pedos and because if you think about it all those are the same they are defiling what was sposed to be beautiful

[Will]

Originally posted by Burning Nineveh@Feb 22 2004, 04:31 PM
I agree yes alot of people let the church control them but in the issue of homos exuality its pretty clear, its wrong

Marriage is between a man and a woman
last time i checked man and man didnt equal a couple

also if we just let them have their marriage whats gonna stop pedos and because if you think about it all those are the same they are defiling what was sposed to be beautiful
Okay... molesting little kids is wrong.

Being with someone you love is not.

:rolleyes:

[F-ck Casey]

Originally posted by Burning Nineveh@Feb 22 2004, 03:31 PM
I agree yes alot of people let the church control them but in the issue of homos exuality its pretty clear, its wrong

Marriage is between a man and a woman
last time i checked man and man didnt equal a couple

also if we just let them have their marriage whats gonna stop pedos and because if you think about it all those are the same they are defiling what was sposed to be beautiful
how the #### can you sit there and say gay marriage isn&#39;t beautiful? they ####### love each other, and you&#39;re going to let your stupid church beliefs dictate what you think is beautiful. you&#39;re a disgrace.


what religion are you by the way?

[Burning Nineveh]

Both are sins B)


Im a christian and proud to be it

[LornVourkolakas]

Originally posted by Burning Nineveh@Feb 22 2004, 09:31 PM
I agree yes alot of people let the church control them but in the issue of homos exuality its pretty clear, its wrong

Marriage is between a man and a woman
last time i checked man and man didnt equal a couple

also if we just let them have their marriage whats gonna stop pedos and because if you think about it all those are the same they are defiling what was sposed to be beautiful
So.. me being in love with a girl is wrong. In other words, me being happy is wrong... Interesting theory you have there.

[F-ck Casey]

Originally posted by Burning Nineveh@Feb 22 2004, 03:33 PM
Both are sins B)
says who?



some ancient book? :lol:

[Will]

Originally posted by Burning Nineveh@Feb 22 2004, 04:33 PM
Both are sins B)
SEE? RIGHT THERE.

"Sins." You&#39;re using the CHURCH to back yourself up because you AREN&#39;T THINKING FOR YOURSELF.

Jesus Christ.








Initiating launch sequence in 5...4...

[Burning Nineveh]

Im not using the church :D being a christian doesent immediatly make you a freaking drone for church policys

God said it was a sin not some uptight church

[F-ck Casey]

Originally posted by Burning Nineveh@Feb 22 2004, 03:36 PM
Im not using the church lol being a christian doesent immediatly make you a freaking drone for church policys

God said it was a sin not some uptight church
most christians are not freethinkers, like some of us at the LPA.


oh, and do you have any proof that God exists?

[Will]

Originally posted by Burning Nineveh@Feb 22 2004, 04:36 PM
Im not using the church :D being a christian doesent immediatly make you a freaking drone for church policys

God said it was a sin not some uptight church
God is still part of religion, therefore you are using religion to back your opinions up, which is the SAME ####### THING.

[LornVourkolakas]

Originally posted by Burning Nineveh@Feb 22 2004, 09:36 PM
Im not using the church lol being a christian doesent immediatly make you a freaking drone for church policys

God said it was a sin not some uptight church
No, the bible says it&#39;s a sin.

Haven&#39;t you noticed that whenever someone says god has spoken to them, that they are considered crazy? Therefore, God doesn&#39;t really have anything to do with this.

The bible is the one that says it&#39;s a sin. But the thing is, the bible contradicts itself. I can&#39;t believe in anything that contradicts itself.

[Burning Nineveh]

Church is not the same thing as God last time i checked it deals with God but when God spoke through people he wasnt talking to the church he was talking abotu life and how certain things were wrong. I follow God not the church the church is becoming corupt as most everything is

[LornVourkolakas]

Originally posted by Burning Nineveh@Feb 22 2004, 09:40 PM
Church is not the same thing as God last time i checked it deals with God but when God spoke through people he wasnt talking to the church he was talking abotu life and how certain things were wrong. I follow God not the church the church is becoming corupt as most everything is
You know.. people lie.. So someone could say God said something when really... no one has ever spoke with God..

[F-ck Casey]

Originally posted by Burning Nineveh@Feb 22 2004, 03:40 PM
Church is not the same thing as God last time i checked it deals with God but when God spoke through people he wasnt talking to the church he was talking abotu life and how certain things were wrong. I follow God not the church the church is becoming corupt as most everything is
how in the blue ####### hell do you follow God, and not the Church?

Either way you&#39;re a Christian, and that&#39;s basically following the church, because you can&#39;t live life you want, and be a Christian at the same time. It&#39;s impossible.

[LornVourkolakas]

If you follow god, you follow religion. Because supposively religion came from the mouth of God. Therefore, yes, you are following the church&#39;s ways.

[Burning Nineveh]

I dont belong to religion i belong to relationship :)

[LornVourkolakas]

Originally posted by Burning Nineveh@Feb 22 2004, 09:44 PM
I dont belong to religion i belong to relationship :)
You said you follow God. Therefore, you follow religion. For God is the reason religion exists.

[F-ck Casey]

Originally posted by Burning Nineveh@Feb 22 2004, 03:44 PM
Bible is supreme authority

Some people believe it others dont

I live my life by it and know when i die it wont be the the end
no, see, that&#39;s where your wrong.


it will be the end for you. you served a life of blind slavery to something you don&#39;t even know exists, and if the christians are right, you go to heaven, and then you serve God some more.

Thus why it&#39;s better to reign in hell, to serve in heaven. Atleast in Hell, you don&#39;t serve anyone. You can be free in Hell, or you can just die.

[Burning Nineveh]

Its your life casey go screw it up if you want :wth:


Youve misheard christianity then its not some hokey religion where you take mass and do confessions its a relationship you dont have to do anything except believe and you cant lose it unlike the others

[The Doctor]

Originally posted by Burning Nineveh@Feb 22 2004, 04:47 PM
Its your life casey go screw it up if you want :wth:
Hes not screwing anything up. Hes living with an open and free mind and you should respect that rather than follow something you dont know is true.

[F-ck Casey]

Originally posted by Burning Nineveh@Feb 22 2004, 03:47 PM
Its your life casey go screw it up if you want :wth:
can&#39;t see how i&#39;m possibly screwing it up.


if anyone is, it&#39;s you. your a slave to a big man with a beard and sandals, that&#39;s millions upon millions miles away.


I think I rather worship myself. Atleast I know I exist.

[Burning Nineveh]

And then youll be in hell and be screaming in the top of your lunges why you didnt listen to anything youve ever been told

[LornVourkolakas]

Originally posted by Burning Nineveh@Feb 22 2004, 09:47 PM
Its your life casey go screw it up if you want :wth:


Youve misheard christianity then its not some hokey religion where you take mass and do confessions its a relationship you dont have to do anything except believe and you cant lose it unlike the others
That was awfully rude. Y

You have your beliefs and Casey has his. If you don&#39;t like his beliefs, that is fine. But you don&#39;t have to say he is screwing up his life just because he doesn&#39;t believe what you do.

[F-ck Casey]

Originally posted by Burning Nineveh@Feb 22 2004, 03:49 PM
And then youll be in hell and be screaming in the top of your lunges why you didnt listen to anything youve ever been told
like i said sweet cheeks, I rather BE IN HELL THEN IN HEAVEN.

[Burning Nineveh]

Ok i applogize for that coment i just dont understand how some people can think of hell and say Yes take me there now

[LornVourkolakas]

Originally posted by Burning Nineveh@Feb 22 2004, 09:50 PM
Ok i applogize for that coment i just dont understand how some people can think of hell and say Yes take me there now
And some people don&#39;t understand on how you can believe something that you have never met. But as you have noticed, no one here said you are screwing up your life. No, they just gave reasons to why they disagree.

[The Doctor]

Ok you really need to stop condeming people for their beliefs. Just because they think their own way and speak their mind, you jump all over them about it. Theres a little thing called the First Amendment....freedom of both speech AND religion.

[F-ck Casey]

Originally posted by Burning Nineveh@Feb 22 2004, 03:50 PM
Ok i applogize for that coment i just dont understand how some people can think of hell and say Yes take me there now
I don&#39;t see how someone can look at 3,000 year old book and say, "oh, yeah, all of this is true. some hippie guy walked on water & turned ####### water into wine".

Oh yeah, sooooo real.

[Burning Nineveh]

I believe that what i believe in is the truth and theres no other way through it

I appologized for the coment i made

its just a passion for me dealing with this issue God is my life i dont worship booze po rn or drgs or any of that crap i worship something of value

[F-ck Casey]

Originally posted by Burning Nineveh@Feb 22 2004, 03:54 PM
I believe that what i believe in is the truth and theres no other way through it

I appologized for the coment i made

its just a passion for me dealing with this issue God is my life i dont worship booze or or any of that crap i worship something of value
can you just tell me how you know God is real?



And don&#39;t give me that faith bullshit either.

[Burning Nineveh]

Look outside all you see didnt come by some big bang its pretty clear

and yes it is faith

[F-ck Casey]

Originally posted by Burning Nineveh@Feb 22 2004, 03:57 PM
Look outside all you see didnt come by some big bang its pretty clear

and yes it is faith
okay, if God created myself and everything around me, then..



WHO THE #### CREATED GOD?&#33;

[Burning Nineveh]

He was always existing

[The Doctor]

Originally posted by Burning Nineveh@Feb 22 2004, 04:57 PM
Look outside all you see didnt come by some big bang its pretty clear

and yes it is faith
It came after billions of years of changes to the planet, duh.

[F-ck Casey]

Originally posted by Burning Nineveh@Feb 22 2004, 03:58 PM
He was always existing
so he just created himself?

[LornVourkolakas]

Originally posted by Burning Nineveh@Feb 22 2004, 09:54 PM
I believe that what i believe in is the truth and theres no other way through it

I appologized for the coment i made

its just a passion for me dealing with this issue God is my life i dont worship booze po rn or drgs or any of that crap i worship something of value
Hey, man. It&#39;s okay to believe in something. You think gay marriage is wrong, fine. But it would be nice if you could tell me another reason rather than God doesn&#39;t like it. Or that your religion is against it. I really would like to see another reason. Something more specific.

And actually, I sort of do believe in the Big Bang. I mean, you think God made us because how could nothing become something, right? Well, how could nothing be here, than all the sudden God? Same thing. So if God could exist, than yes, I do think the Big Bang could of existed as well.

[Burning Nineveh]

He wasnt created he existed in the begining there was no start to God

[The Doctor]

Originally posted by Casey+Feb 22 2004, 04:59 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Casey @ Feb 22 2004, 04:59 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Burning Nineveh@Feb 22 2004, 03:58 PM
He was always existing
so he just created himself? [/b][/quote]
Everything must come from something, so he couldnt have always existed.

[Will]

Religion is just a security blanket for fools who don&#39;t want to allow themselves to believe in what&#39;s reality.

[Burning Nineveh]

God is more powerful to be constrained by some scienttific principle

[The Doctor]

Originally posted by Will@Feb 22 2004, 05:00 PM
Religion is just a security blanket for fools who don&#39;t want to allow themselves to believe in what&#39;s reality.
Exactly.



More powerful? Show me examples of this so wonderful power. We still have death, disease, and other things that are horrible and they all have specific background NOT coming from "magic"

[LornVourkolakas]

Originally posted by Will@Feb 22 2004, 10:00 PM
Religion is just a security blanket for fools who don&#39;t want to allow themselves to believe in what&#39;s reality.
In my opinion, everyone needs something to believe in. Some people choose religion. I think that is fine with me. But it would be nice if they had explanations.

If God could of existed the whole time. Than how could the Big Bang be considered Rediculous? I don&#39;t understand.

[Burning Nineveh]

Ok you tell me to not say hurtful things to others but then you have this will person say that people like me are fools :wth:

[Burning Nineveh]

God allows all that crap to happen so we can turn to him



For example 9/11

what happened after

People began looking for God

[LornVourkolakas]

Originally posted by Burning Nineveh@Feb 22 2004, 10:02 PM
Ok you tell me to not say hurtful things to others but then you have this will person say that people like me are fools :wth:
Will is our God, though. So it&#39;s okay. J/k.

He never called you a fool. Implied, perhaps. But never directly called you a fool. While you directly told Casey that he is wasting his life.

[F-ck Casey]

blind believers believe there is a "loving" and "forgiving" god person who will hideously punish anyone who dares to question "his" existence. Obviously, we reject such an ugly concept, so this threat doesn&#39;t scare us. Also, what if YOU&#39;RE wrong? You have condemned millions of people to hell in your thoughts and words, not to mention that, if you&#39;re a Christian, you believe the Jews are guilty of killing God&#33; These are pretty heinous accusations, so you had better be sure that you&#39;re not wrong. Blind belief is not a win-win situation. Indeed, it is intellectually dishonest and harmful.

Proof God Doesn&#39;t Exist Webpage (http://www.truthbeknown.com/proof.htm)






oh, and Will basically owns this site, along with a few other people, or something. He can do whatever the fizzuck he wants.

[Kæton]

Burning Nineveh:
For one, that was Will&#39;s opinion, and I&#39;m sure he doesn&#39;t mean to &#39;hurt&#39; anyone by it.

Second... Don&#39;t double post, please. Thank you.

[LornVourkolakas]

Originally posted by Burning Nineveh@Feb 22 2004, 10:03 PM
God allows all that crap to happen so we can turn to him



For example 9/11

what happened after

People began looking for God
If God wanted us to truly turn to him and believe in him. He would wipe out all that is bad. Trust me, if that happened, a lot of people would than believe.

[Burning Nineveh]

Jews didnt kill jesus

we all did



Lorn: Without dust a rainbow cant be formed

[Kæton]

Well, could you tell me something, though? If God caused 9-11 to happen, why&#39;d he consider killing so many people for other&#39;s attention? I would think God would do something... not so heartbreaking if he wanted any attention or whatever it may be called :wth:.

[LornVourkolakas]

Originally posted by Burning Nineveh@Feb 22 2004, 10:05 PM
Jews didnt kill jesus

we all did



Lorn: Without dust a rainbow cant be formed
Without God, there&#39;d be no religion.

You are just believing what others tell you to believe. You go ahead and keep denying it. Keep saying you only worship God. Hide behind your lord as many do. But no matter what, if you look inside it deeply, you are worshiping religion.

[Burning Nineveh]

He wanted to get our attention and guess what he did 9/11 shook us at our core but it made alot of people think. Sometimes people need to be hit hard with trouble before they turn around and look for God

Then you have a diferent idea of what christianity is take it from someone who is one its not a religion a religion you have to do things to stay in favor with God Christianity you have to do NOTHING

[LornVourkolakas]

Originally posted by Burning Nineveh@Feb 22 2004, 10:09 PM
He wanted to get our attention and guess what he did 9/11 shook us at our core but it made alot of people think. Sometimes people need to be hit hard with trouble before they turn around and look for God
So you&#39;re saying I got Cancer because God wanted attention? Sorry bud. The reason I questioned Gods existance is because I have this disease.

If one day every disease known was wiped out, perhaps than I would believe. But until than, I&#39;ll keep questioning his existance.

[Todd]

Originally posted by Burning Nineveh@Feb 22 2004, 04:09 PM
Sometimes people need to be hit hard with trouble before they turn around and look for God
Um no. You could kill off every one in my family and infect me with every disease out there and I never, ever would turn to god because god doesn&#39;t exist.

[F-ck Casey]

Originally posted by Burning Nineveh@Feb 22 2004, 04:09 PM
He wanted to get our attention and guess what he did 9/11 shook us at our core but it made alot of people think. Sometimes people need to be hit hard with trouble before they turn around and look for God
you know what I did on 9/11?




nothing. it didn&#39;t effect me in any way. You know what 9/11 did? It ####### scared people. They ran to church and begged for forgiveness, because they thought YOUR GOD was going to KILL THEM.

I&#39;m proud to say on 9/11 I just watched some DVD&#39;s. Sorry, I didn&#39;t care about 9/11. I don&#39;t usually care about national/world wide atrocities.

[Kæton]

Originally posted by Burning Nineveh@Feb 22 2004, 12:09 PM
He wanted to get our attention and guess what he did 9/11 shook us at our core but it made alot of people think. Sometimes people need to be hit hard with trouble before they turn around and look for God

Then you have a diferent idea of what christianity is take it from someone who is one its not a religion a religion you have to do things to stay in favor with God Christianity you have to do NOTHING
So are you saying that I can go around killing hundreds to thousands of people and consider myself a God and demand attention? That doesn&#39;t really answer my question because still, so many had to DIE just so that they&#39;d pay attention to God?? That seems down right wrong to me.

[Burning Nineveh]

Dude God has a purpose for everything he does

Why did God let me try to kill myself 6 times cus then i realized how i wasnt serving him

[F-ck Casey]

Originally posted by Burning Nineveh@Feb 22 2004, 04:12 PM
Dude God has a purpose for everything he does

Why did God let me try to 6 times cus then i realized how i wasnt serving him
his purpose was to scare millions of athiests into christian conversion, and to scare millions of christians into repenting their sins.

[LornVourkolakas]

Originally posted by Burning Nineveh@Feb 22 2004, 10:12 PM
Dude God has a purpose for everything he does

Why did God let me try to 6 times cus then i realized how i wasnt serving him
I&#39;m not trying to be rude. But improve on your grammar. It&#39;s hard to understand what you&#39;re trying to say. :&#092;

So Gods purpose for giving me Cancer is because... he was bored?

[Todd]

Originally posted by Burning Nineveh@Feb 22 2004, 04:12 PM
Dude God has a purpose for everything he does
So if this &#39;god&#39; that you&#39;re talking about has a purpose for everything he does, why the hell would he kill 3000 people. Theres absolutley no purpose or excuse for that

[Burning Nineveh]

He doesent scare people into christianity its a decision you make. you dont make it in fear


He didnt kill them he allowed them to be killed he didnt enjoy it he didnt sit back and say well look what ive done

[Kæton]

So I guess that means you can&#39;t answer my question, right? God likes to do things to us as people so we&#39;d pay attention to him? I guess he likes to give me (and others) a hard time and less of any good things, so I wouldn&#39;t turn to him for anything. Then again, that&#39;s my opinion.

Okay guys, wrap this up, we&#39;re getting way off topic, lol.

[The Doctor]

Originally posted by Burning Nineveh@Feb 22 2004, 05:14 PM
He doesent scare people into christianity its a decision you make. you dont make it in fear
you just totally contradicted yourself.

[LornVourkolakas]

Originally posted by Keaton@Feb 22 2004, 10:15 PM
So I guess that means you can&#39;t answer my question, right? God likes to do things to us as people so we&#39;d pay attention to him? I guess he likes to give me (and others) a hard time and less of any good things, so I wouldn&#39;t turn to him for anything. Then again, that&#39;s my opinion.

Okay guys, wrap this up, we&#39;re getting way off topic, lol.
Maybe we should start a new topic. Like.. God exists? I don&#39;t know.. :P

[Burning Nineveh]

Final point:

I dont want to make waves or do any of that crap i just want you guys to see Gods not some guy trying to make your life horrible its the decisions you make in your liife that affect it. God is the answer for all your problems

[Todd]

Originally posted by Burning Nineveh@Feb 22 2004, 04:14 PM
He didnt kill them he allowed them to be killed he didnt enjoy it he didnt sit back and say well look what ive done
so he allowed the plane to get hijacked and flown into a couple tall buildings? bullshit. if god is so great, he wouldn&#39;t have allowed it to happen, he would have overpowered the crappy airline security and stopped the terrorists from getting on.

[The Doctor]

Originally posted by Burning Nineveh@Feb 22 2004, 05:16 PM
Final point:

I dont want to make waves or do any of that crap i just want you guys to see Gods not some guy trying to make your life horrible its the decisions you make in your liife that affect it. God is the answer for all your problems
Hes not making our lives suck because theres other things doing it NOT tied to the supposed "god"

[F-ck Casey]

bah, i&#39;m through with him. let someone else interrogate him on Christian beliefs.

I&#39;ve converted more Christians to Satanism, more than you could probably believe. You know what? I hope I do go to hell. I really want to meet the person that had the ######&#39;&#39; balls to stand up to a bully.

[LornVourkolakas]

Originally posted by Burning Nineveh@Feb 22 2004, 10:16 PM
Final point:

I dont want to make waves or do any of that crap i just want you guys to see Gods not some guy trying to make your life horrible its the decisions you make in your liife that affect it. God is the answer for all your problems
I&#39;m sorry but.. I didn&#39;t get to have a choice when it came to Cancer. It&#39;s not like AIDS. It&#39;s not like I had sex and than got it. No. I just woke up one day and had it. It wasn&#39;t by choice, my friend.

[Will]

Originally posted by Burning Nineveh@Feb 22 2004, 05:16 PM
Final point:

I dont want to make waves or do any of that crap i just want you guys to see Gods not some guy trying to make your life horrible its the decisions you make in your liife that affect it. God is the answer for all your problems
So, when my grandfather died, it was my decision to make him die?

[Kæton]

Originally posted by LornVourkolakas+Feb 22 2004, 12:16 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (LornVourkolakas @ Feb 22 2004, 12:16 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Keaton@Feb 22 2004, 10:15 PM
So I guess that means you can&#39;t answer my question, right?* God likes to do things to us as people so we&#39;d pay attention to him?* I guess he likes to give me (and others) a hard time and less of any good things, so I wouldn&#39;t turn to him for anything.* Then again, that&#39;s my opinion.

Okay guys, wrap this up, we&#39;re getting way off topic, lol.
Maybe we should start a new topic. Like.. God exists? I don&#39;t know.. :P [/b][/quote]
Lorn, if we can all have a civil thread with religion in it, I&#39;d die a happy man, but everytime we&#39;ve had one, it&#39;s always turned into a flame-fest, lol.

And to Burning Nineveh, you have no right to say we deserve the things we get. In my entire life, I&#39;ve never once done a negative thing to someone with intentions of them getting hurt and I&#39;ve always helped people in many ways I could, and you say I deserve what&#39;s being given to me?&#33; If that&#39;s true, then I don&#39;t respect God in any freaking way anymore because that would mean God is just like any other person.

Yeah, and to kill off many people I love in one year is pretty f**ked up as well, so if God had anything to do with that, I say to hell with that.

I&#39;m sorry, but that really angers me.

[Todd]

Originally posted by Burning Nineveh@Feb 22 2004, 04:16 PM
Final point:

I dont want to make waves or do any of that crap i just want you guys to see Gods not some guy trying to make your life horrible its the decisions you make in your liife that affect it. God is the answer for all your problems
So if god is the answer to everyone&#39;s problems, why are so many people poor, others sick, depressed, lonely, ect. You&#39;re preaching to us that god is a magical cure-all. yeah right. if that was true, everyone would pray to god and be driving lamborghinis and own a 4 million dollar mansion on the beach.

[LornVourkolakas]

Originally posted by Keaton+Feb 22 2004, 10:20 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Keaton @ Feb 22 2004, 10:20 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by -LornVourkolakas@Feb 22 2004, 12:16 PM
<!--QuoteBegin--Keaton@Feb 22 2004, 10:15 PM
So I guess that means you can&#39;t answer my question, right?* God likes to do things to us as people so we&#39;d pay attention to him?* I guess he likes to give me (and others) a hard time and less of any good things, so I wouldn&#39;t turn to him for anything.* Then again, that&#39;s my opinion.

Okay guys, wrap this up, we&#39;re getting way off topic, lol.
Maybe we should start a new topic. Like.. God exists? I don&#39;t know.. :P
Lorn, if we can all have a civil thread with religion in it, I&#39;d die a happy man, but everytime we&#39;ve had one, it&#39;s always turned into a flame-fest, lol.

And to Burning Nineveh, you have no right to say we deserve the things we get. In my entire life, I&#39;ve never once done a negative thing to someone with intentions of them getting hurt and I&#39;ve always helped people in many ways I could, and you say I deserve what&#39;s being given to me?&#33; If that&#39;s true, then I don&#39;t respect God in any freaking way anymore because that would mean God is just like any other person. [/b][/quote]
Ah, that&#39;s right. Someones head might be bitten off. lol.

And I agree with you, Keaton. Many of us who have had bad things happen to us never diserved it. And if God does exist and is the cause of it, than he truely is a bully. And he has lost respect from me, as well.

[Will]

Originally posted by Todd+Feb 22 2004, 05:20 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Todd @ Feb 22 2004, 05:20 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Burning Nineveh@Feb 22 2004, 04:16 PM
Final point:

I dont want to make waves or do any of that crap i just want you guys to see Gods not some guy trying to make your life horrible its the decisions you make in your liife that affect it. God is the answer for all your problems
So if god is the answer to everyone&#39;s problems, why are so many people poor, others sick, depressed, lonely, ect. You&#39;re preaching to us that god is a magical cure-all. yeah right. if that was true, everyone would pray to god and be driving lamborghinis and own a 4 million dollar mansion on the beach. [/b][/quote]
Exactly.

If God cared about anyone, the world would be perfect, and the world is FAR from perfect.

[F-ck Casey]

Originally posted by Will+Feb 22 2004, 04:23 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Will @ Feb 22 2004, 04:23 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by -Todd@Feb 22 2004, 05:20 PM
<!--QuoteBegin--Burning Nineveh@Feb 22 2004, 04:16 PM
Final point:

I dont want to make waves or do any of that crap i just want you guys to see Gods not some guy trying to make your life horrible its the decisions you make in your liife that affect it. God is the answer for all your problems
So if god is the answer to everyone&#39;s problems, why are so many people poor, others sick, depressed, lonely, ect. You&#39;re preaching to us that god is a magical cure-all. yeah right. if that was true, everyone would pray to god and be driving lamborghinis and own a 4 million dollar mansion on the beach.
Exactly.

If God cared about anyone, the world would be perfect, and the world is FAR from perfect. [/b][/quote]
I think it&#39;s a known fact that God doesn&#39;t care for everyone, only the ones that believe in him.


This came to me while I was on the toilet:


God isn&#39;t a good parent. While he&#39;s out killing millions, Jesus gets the blame for all of that. I feel sorry for Jesus, really, because he&#39;s an icon in all religions, actually, while God isn&#39;t, and he still gets the nasty saying about him.

God is a cat. He let&#39;s Jesus take the brunt of everything.

[Todd]

Originally posted by Casey+Feb 22 2004, 04:31 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Casey @ Feb 22 2004, 04:31 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by -Will@Feb 22 2004, 04:23 PM

Originally posted by -Todd@Feb 22 2004, 05:20 PM
<!--QuoteBegin--Burning Nineveh@Feb 22 2004, 04:16 PM
Final point:

I dont want to make waves or do any of that crap i just want you guys to see Gods not some guy trying to make your life horrible its the decisions you make in your liife that affect it. God is the answer for all your problems
So if god is the answer to everyone&#39;s problems, why are so many people poor, others sick, depressed, lonely, ect. You&#39;re preaching to us that god is a magical cure-all. yeah right. if that was true, everyone would pray to god and be driving lamborghinis and own a 4 million dollar mansion on the beach.
Exactly.

If God cared about anyone, the world would be perfect, and the world is FAR from perfect.
I think it&#39;s a known fact that God doesn&#39;t care for everyone, only the ones that believe in him.


This came to me while I was on the toilet:


God isn&#39;t a good parent. While he&#39;s out killing millions, Jesus gets the blame for all of that. I feel sorry for Jesus, really, because he&#39;s an icon in all religions, actually, while God isn&#39;t, and he still gets the nasty saying about him.

God is a cat. He let&#39;s Jesus take the brunt of everything. [/b][/quote]
yeah, I do most of my logical thinking on the crapper too :P


but jesus isn&#39;t an icon in all religions. christianity and catholosim (all branches and forms of both) yeah, but in judiasm, islam, buddism, ect, he&#39;s nothing

[F-ck Casey]

Originally posted by Todd+Feb 22 2004, 04:36 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Todd @ Feb 22 2004, 04:36 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by -Casey@Feb 22 2004, 04:31 PM

Originally posted by -Will@Feb 22 2004, 04:23 PM

Originally posted by -Todd@Feb 22 2004, 05:20 PM
<!--QuoteBegin--Burning Nineveh@Feb 22 2004, 04:16 PM
Final point:

I dont want to make waves or do any of that crap i just want you guys to see Gods not some guy trying to make your life horrible its the decisions you make in your liife that affect it. God is the answer for all your problems
So if god is the answer to everyone&#39;s problems, why are so many people poor, others sick, depressed, lonely, ect. You&#39;re preaching to us that god is a magical cure-all. yeah right. if that was true, everyone would pray to god and be driving lamborghinis and own a 4 million dollar mansion on the beach.
Exactly.

If God cared about anyone, the world would be perfect, and the world is FAR from perfect.
I think it&#39;s a known fact that God doesn&#39;t care for everyone, only the ones that believe in him.


This came to me while I was on the toilet:


God isn&#39;t a good parent. While he&#39;s out killing millions, Jesus gets the blame for all of that. I feel sorry for Jesus, really, because he&#39;s an icon in all religions, actually, while God isn&#39;t, and he still gets the nasty saying about him.

God is a cat. He let&#39;s Jesus take the brunt of everything.
yeah, I do most of my logical thinking on the crapper too :P


but jesus isn&#39;t an icon in all religions. christianity and catholosim (all branches and forms of both) yeah, but in judiasm, islam, buddism, ect, he&#39;s nothing [/b][/quote]
in Satanism (the devil one) he&#39;s an importer part IMO.

He&#39;s in the Paegan/Wiccan religion, I know that much.




Bah, not ALL religions, but more than God.

[LPNeSSRGB]

Originally posted by Casey+Feb 22 2004, 04:57 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Casey @ Feb 22 2004, 04:57 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Burning Nineveh@Feb 22 2004, 03:57 PM
Look outside all you see didnt come by some big bang its pretty clear

and yes it is faith
okay, if God created myself and everything around me, then..



WHO THE #### CREATED GOD?&#33; [/b][/quote]
That&#39;s an excellent question.

And Will, what you said: "Religion is just a security blanket for fools who don&#39;t want to allow themselves to believe in what&#39;s reality." I couldn&#39;t agree more. What I hate the most is when people use religion to justify their hatred. I&#39;m sorry, but how is gay marriage a sin? It&#39;s a beautiful thing to see two people who love each other joined in such a union, whether it&#39;s between a man and a woman, a man and a man, or a woman and a woman.
And the fact that God is there to help us...I&#39;ve never heard such B.S. I guess giving people diseases and killing innocent people is part of the divine plan, huh?
I don&#39;t have any problem with people having different beliefs. But when they try and use them to justify idiotic things I get very upset. Please, you should try using your own judgment instead of blindly following what some priest spoon feeds to you.

[Mark]

Originally posted by Burning Nineveh@Feb 22 2004, 06:39 PM
He wanted to get our attention and guess what he did 9/11 shook us at our core but it made alot of people think. Sometimes people need to be hit hard with trouble before they turn around and look for God
Yes, then it caused two wars which killed thousands of other innocent people and soldiers. I&#39;d guess around 5000 people have died combined because of the events which happened on and after 9/11. Thanks, "God".

[Hybrid Theory]

Originally posted by LornVourkolakas+Feb 22 2004, 10:11 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (LornVourkolakas @ Feb 22 2004, 10:11 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Burning Nineveh@Feb 22 2004, 10:09 PM
He wanted to get our attention and guess what he did 9/11 shook us at our core but it made alot of people think. Sometimes people need to be hit hard with trouble before they turn around and look for God
So you&#39;re saying I got Cancer because God wanted attention? Sorry bud. The reason I questioned Gods existance is because I have this disease.

If one day every disease known was wiped out, perhaps than I would believe. But until than, I&#39;ll keep questioning his existance. [/b][/quote]
Do you really have cancer? That&#39;s sad. :( Abortion should be allowed because people have the right to make decisions.

[EvolutionaryFuse]

Originally posted by superxero88@Feb 16 2004, 07:15 AM
I&#39;m for abortion when it&#39;s necessary (rape and other sexual crimes, etc)

For things like teen pregancy and adultery, I think the burden of an unwanted child should serve as punishment for making bad decisions.
i totaly agree with you on this

[Radical Dreamer]

Originally posted by LornVourkolakas+Feb 22 2004, 10:22 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (LornVourkolakas @ Feb 22 2004, 10:22 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by -Keaton@Feb 22 2004, 10:20 PM

Originally posted by -LornVourkolakas@Feb 22 2004, 12:16 PM
<!--QuoteBegin--Keaton@Feb 22 2004, 10:15 PM
So I guess that means you can&#39;t answer my question, right?* God likes to do things to us as people so we&#39;d pay attention to him?* I guess he likes to give me (and others) a hard time and less of any good things, so I wouldn&#39;t turn to him for anything.* Then again, that&#39;s my opinion.

Okay guys, wrap this up, we&#39;re getting way off topic, lol.
Maybe we should start a new topic. Like.. God exists? I don&#39;t know.. :P
Lorn, if we can all have a civil thread with religion in it, I&#39;d die a happy man, but everytime we&#39;ve had one, it&#39;s always turned into a flame-fest, lol.

And to Burning Nineveh, you have no right to say we deserve the things we get. In my entire life, I&#39;ve never once done a negative thing to someone with intentions of them getting hurt and I&#39;ve always helped people in many ways I could, and you say I deserve what&#39;s being given to me?&#33; If that&#39;s true, then I don&#39;t respect God in any freaking way anymore because that would mean God is just like any other person.
Ah, that&#39;s right. Someones head might be bitten off. lol.

And I agree with you, Keaton. Many of us who have had bad things happen to us never diserved it. And if God does exist and is the cause of it, than he truely is a bully. And he has lost respect from me, as well. [/b][/quote]
So God should pay for our mistakes?

To digress a bit, I can see why some people would question God&#39;s existence but honestly, you can&#39;t blame God for everything. Yes, cancer is bad, wars are bad, 9/11 was awful, but none of these were caused by God. Man caused these things and man alone has to take responsibility for them. I hate to sound all preacher-like but playing the blame game won&#39;t get people anywhere. Your belief in God can&#39;t be selective - you either believe in him or not. You can&#39;t choose to believe in him when things are going your way and then disown him the next minute when sh*t happens. Good stuff doesn&#39;t always happen to good guys and the bad guys get away with everything. It&#39;s strange that life doesn&#39;t work out the way WE want it to but it&#39;s all a big trial, I guess. Just try and get the bigger picture. I&#39;m just offering a Christian perspective. Hope I didn&#39;t offend anyone. :wth:

[The Doctor]

Man didnt create cancer or other diseases. "God" did.

[LornVourkolakas]

Originally posted by Radical Dreamer@Feb 24 2004, 12:21 AM
So God should pay for our mistakes?

To digress a bit, I can see why some people would question God&#39;s existence but honestly, you can&#39;t blame God for everything. Yes, cancer is bad, wars are bad, 9/11 was awful, but none of these were caused by God. Man caused these things and man alone has to take responsibility for them. I hate to sound all preacher-like but playing the blame game won&#39;t get people anywhere. Your belief in God can&#39;t be selective - you either believe in him or not. You can&#39;t choose to believe in him when things are going your way and then disown him the next minute when sh*t happens. Good stuff doesn&#39;t always happen to good guys and the bad guys get away with everything. It&#39;s strange that life doesn&#39;t work out the way WE want it to but it&#39;s all a big trial, I guess. Just try and get the bigger picture. I&#39;m just offering a Christian perspective. Hope I didn&#39;t offend anyone. :wth:
The whole time of this discussion, Burning Nineveh was saying that God is, indeed, the cause of all these things. I&#39;m just saying if he were, that I don&#39;t see how that is a way to make people turn to him.

[Kæton]

Originally posted by LornVourkolakas+Feb 23 2004, 02:30 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (LornVourkolakas @ Feb 23 2004, 02:30 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Radical Dreamer@Feb 24 2004, 12:21 AM
So God should pay for our mistakes?

To digress a bit, I can see why some people would question God&#39;s existence but honestly, you can&#39;t blame God for everything. Yes, cancer is bad, wars are bad, 9/11 was awful, but none of these were caused by God. Man caused these things and man alone has to take responsibility for them. I hate to sound all preacher-like but playing the blame game won&#39;t get people anywhere. Your belief in God can&#39;t be selective - you either believe in him or not. You can&#39;t choose to believe in him when things are going your way and then disown him the next minute when sh*t happens. Good stuff doesn&#39;t always happen to good guys and the bad guys get away with everything. It&#39;s strange that life doesn&#39;t work out the way WE want it to but it&#39;s all a big trial, I guess. Just try and get the bigger picture. I&#39;m just offering a Christian perspective. Hope I didn&#39;t offend anyone. :wth:
The whole time of this discussion, Burning Nineveh was saying that God is, indeed, the cause of all these things. I&#39;m just saying if he were, that I don&#39;t see how that is a way to make people turn to him. [/b][/quote]
Exactly. Until the point where Burning made it seem that God &#39;punishes&#39; us for our &#39;mistakes,&#39; I had no problem with God or it&#39;s believers, but if this is what they believe, that&#39;s really wrong. Also, Burning said that God caused 9/11 because he wanted them to pay attention to him. I almost lost family members in 9/11, so what, would killing them mean I&#39;d turn to him when I don&#39;t believe to begin with? I&#39;ve never blamed God for my problems, and I&#39;ve lived with heartbreaking problems my entire life. I&#39;ve blamed myself a lot telling myself I was never good enough (or whatever it may be), but then Burning claims that God does these things to us because we&#39;ve made bad desicions/mistakes in life. In my life, I&#39;ve yet to see anything I&#39;ve really done wrong for me to suffer so much, thusly a new disreguard for God. I don&#39;t mean to offend, but when someone tells me I deserve the heartbreak I continuously have, when I&#39;ve never provoked negative actions on purpose, then I say screw that. Again, I don&#39;t mean to offend, but that&#39;s really, really hurtful at the same time because me, personally, have never been one to want to do anything bad on purpose, though I know I&#39;ve made bad decisions.

I guess I just don&#39;t understand religion. Again, though, I&#39;d never had blamed God for my problems until now, because according to what Burning said, I deserve my discouraging life and even if I&#39;ve never blamed God to begin with, I still deserve this type of life? Only recently have I questioned God&#39;s existance because my life never takes an up, and I always wonder why I can never be given something more. My entire family is religious, because good things have constantly happened to them (I guess), but yet, I am the opposite and I started to question him. I now think God plays favorites if he exists. It&#39;s always people like me who have the worse of things, and yes, this may be hard for some of you to realize because you don&#39;t know my past, but I can assure you it&#39;s been nothing of greatness.

Sure, I can &#39;thank God&#39; for having me be born, but hell, think about it, I was just a strong enough sperm to get to my mother&#39;s egg (sorry to be so graphic). Again, there&#39;s a lot in my past no one here knows, but to tell me I&#39;m fourtunate that God&#39;s given me life is hard to comprehend because men produce millions of sperm a day, and well, uh... Each carries it&#39;s own personallity, so where does &#39;life&#39; really come? Should I be happy my parents had sex or that God made them have sex? Again, I&#39;m probably missing something because this doesn&#39;t add up to me when I think about it.

I guess I&#39;ll stop now, I&#39;m going off topic, though this ties in to abortion a bit. Though many get abortions frequently, those decisions depend on the people/person/people around them. Sometimes you can&#39;t help it, sometimes you can. It&#39;s all judged on you as a person to make a change. But again, sometimes it&#39;s hard.

[ass_kicker]

dudes... chill... well i dont even have the right to say that. but you know that talking about God creates tension. mhm.

[OggeM]

#2
It&#39;s up to them

[Link04]

Originally posted by Todd+Feb 22 2004, 10:36 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Todd @ Feb 22 2004, 10:36 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by -Casey@Feb 22 2004, 04:31 PM

Originally posted by -Will@Feb 22 2004, 04:23 PM

Originally posted by -Todd@Feb 22 2004, 05:20 PM
<!--QuoteBegin--Burning Nineveh@Feb 22 2004, 04:16 PM
Final point:

I dont want to make waves or do any of that crap i just want you guys to see Gods not some guy trying to make your life horrible its the decisions you make in your liife that affect it. God is the answer for all your problems
So if god is the answer to everyone&#39;s problems, why are so many people poor, others sick, depressed, lonely, ect. You&#39;re preaching to us that god is a magical cure-all. yeah right. if that was true, everyone would pray to god and be driving lamborghinis and own a 4 million dollar mansion on the beach.
Exactly.

If God cared about anyone, the world would be perfect, and the world is FAR from perfect.
I think it&#39;s a known fact that God doesn&#39;t care for everyone, only the ones that believe in him.


This came to me while I was on the toilet:


God isn&#39;t a good parent. While he&#39;s out killing millions, Jesus gets the blame for all of that. I feel sorry for Jesus, really, because he&#39;s an icon in all religions, actually, while God isn&#39;t, and he still gets the nasty saying about him.

God is a cat. He let&#39;s Jesus take the brunt of everything.
yeah, I do most of my logical thinking on the crapper too :P


but jesus isn&#39;t an icon in all religions. christianity and catholosim (all branches and forms of both) yeah, but in judiasm, islam, buddism, ect, he&#39;s nothing [/b][/quote]
To your last statement...Islam believes in Jesus as a credible prophet, not the Messiah, but on the same plane as Moses and Abraham. And Catholicism is part of Christianity.

[Maëlle]

Okay guys, what&#39;s the point of bringing God, Allah, Moise, and all that gang in a subject about abortion?&#33; You may believe whatever you want, but if your god doesn&#39;t practice surgery, I don&#39;t really see how he can help you not having the baby&#33; Damn, it&#39;s just logic&#33;

Now, about what i think about abortion: I&#39;d say it must be allowed to everybody, not that I think it. What I mean is that if there was a law where abortion is allowed for raped woman and accidents it would have the same effects as if there was a law allowing abortion for everybody. Seriously guys, what we do better than anything else is lying so it&#39;s so easy for the poor girl to tell she had an accident, the condom blew up or whatever&#33; And I don&#39;t think teh government will be willing to pay judges to decide if teh woman is lying or not&#33; Also, in the case of rape: If the rape isn&#39;t proved? If the guy never gets in jail for what he did, does it mean that the woman has to keep the baby? Let me laugh, illegal clinics will be created, the only difference with today being that it&#39;ll cost you three times more than now (that is if you do it in private clinics)&#33;

Tsss trying to control abortion is just as trying to control drugs; it&#39;s a lost cause&#33;

[Link04]

Well, many peoples morals are deeply routed and inspired by their religion, therefore, I feel it&#39;s very relevant. A baby in the womb is a person to me. Killing a person, especially one so helpless and innocent as a fetus, is wrong in my book. It&#39;s murder. IMO.

[Glenn]

It depends on the situation. Some people use abortion as birth control. That is totally wrong&#33; If it is rape or unwanted sex, then I believe that it is ok in those emergency situations. If you have unsafe sex as a teenager and you were aware of the consequences, then I guess the person is saying that he is responsible enough to have the baby, even though they might not be. I don&#39;t think that abortion should be illegal, but people should be able to control themselves of sex until they are older.

I don&#39;t think religion should be involved with this. Suppose someone was raped. Should they be looked down upon if they went through abortion? No.

[ass_kicker]

Originally posted by DuffsterLP@Mar 25 2004, 02:55 AM
It depends on the situation. Some people use abortion as birth control. That is totally wrong&#33; If it is rape or unwanted sex, then I believe that it is ok in those emergency situations. If you have unsafe sex as a teenager and you were aware of the consequences, then I guess the person is saying that he is responsible enough to have the baby, even though they might not be. I don&#39;t think that abortion should be illegal, but people should be able to control themselves of sex until they are older.

I don&#39;t think religion should be involved with this. Suppose someone was raped. Should they be looked down upon if they went through abortion? No.
yes i agree. abortion isnt like condoms or something, for f*ck&#39;s sake.

[Radical Dreamer]

Originally posted by Link04@Mar 25 2004, 02:29 AM
Well, many peoples morals are deeply routed and inspired by their religion, therefore, I feel it&#39;s very relevant. A baby in the womb is a person to me. Killing a person, especially one so helpless and innocent as a fetus, is wrong in my book. It&#39;s murder. IMO.
I quite agree with you, but let it be a reminder that absolute morality can be a dangerous thing. :rolleyes:

[Link04]

Originally posted by Radical Dreamer+Mar 26 2004, 01:48 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Radical Dreamer @ Mar 26 2004, 01:48 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Link04@Mar 25 2004, 02:29 AM
Well, many peoples morals are deeply routed and inspired by their religion, therefore, I feel it&#39;s very relevant. A baby in the womb is a person to me. Killing a person, especially one so helpless and innocent as a fetus, is wrong in my book. It&#39;s murder. IMO.
I quite agree with you, but let it be a reminder that absolute morality can be a dangerous thing. :rolleyes: [/b][/quote]
Amen to that.

[ass_kicker]

Originally posted by Link04+Mar 26 2004, 02:10 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Link04 @ Mar 26 2004, 02:10 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by -Radical Dreamer@Mar 26 2004, 01:48 AM
<!--QuoteBegin--Link04@Mar 25 2004, 02:29 AM
Well, many peoples morals are deeply routed and inspired by their religion, therefore, I feel it&#39;s very relevant.* A baby in the womb is a person to me.* Killing a person, especially one so helpless and innocent as a fetus, is wrong in my book.* It&#39;s murder.* IMO.
I quite agree with you, but let it be a reminder that absolute morality can be a dangerous thing. :rolleyes:
Amen to that. [/b][/quote]
lollies. :lol: im not sure if it was a joke but i found it funneys.

i still think abortion is good in some cases...

[Messy Marj]

Originally posted by Link04@Mar 25 2004, 02:29 AM
Well, many peoples morals are deeply routed and inspired by their religion, therefore, I feel it&#39;s very relevant. A baby in the womb is a person to me. Killing a person, especially one so helpless and innocent as a fetus, is wrong in my book. It&#39;s murder. IMO.
Yeah, i agree too. I think that as soon as the cells has melt together, it&#39;s a person. And killing a person is a crime. Though i understand raped people. It&#39;s not their choice to be pregnant.



For everyone:
By the way, what has God to do with this? i think that you can hurt someone elses feelings if you talk about God in that way.

[ass_kicker]

Originally posted by ghost child+Apr 24 2004, 11:20 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (ghost child @ Apr 24 2004, 11:20 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Link04@Mar 25 2004, 02:29 AM
Well, many peoples morals are deeply routed and inspired by their religion, therefore, I feel it&#39;s very relevant. A baby in the womb is a person to me. Killing a person, especially one so helpless and innocent as a fetus, is wrong in my book. It&#39;s murder. IMO.
Yeah, i agree too. I think that as soon as the cells has melt together, it&#39;s a person. And killing a person is a crime. Though i understand raped people. It&#39;s not their choice to be pregnant.



For everyone:
By the way, what has God to do with this? i think that you can hurt someone elses feelings if you talk about God in that way. [/b][/quote]
i think that religion does have something to do with abortion. if you&#39;re catholic or whatever, abortion is a sin... but even though im catholic i still believe its good in some cases.