Occupy the Planet

[F-ck Casey]

one year. 3 phases. a world of change.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gP9q61Fjlqo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ccazpyz0RyQ

www.occupytogether.org/
www.whatis-theplan.org/

We are the 99%.
This is our time.
America is waking up.

Do you want REAL change, or do you want a 2nd Obama term? A 1st Mitt Romney term? How about Bachmann, or Palin, or Rick Perry?

Use your voice before it's taken away from you.

[travz21]

I've been wanting to talk about them for awhile now, but nobody here seemed like the type.

[F-ck Casey]

I'm going to Occupy Nashville on Sunday. I'm almost positive they have an Occupy Minneapolis event coming up within the next month.

[Dean]

Casey, the following is a sincere question that I'm asking out of curiosity and not an attempt at antagonising you - if you've posted this thread and you're using that avatar, you're compromising your anonymity, right? I thought Anonymous didn't like people doing that?

[Derek The Infamous]

Casey, the following is a sincere question that I'm asking out of curiosity and not an attempt at antagonizing you - if you've posted this thread and you're using that avatar, you're compromising your anonymity, right? I thought Anonymous didn't like people doing that? Yeah isn't the point of anonymous to be well...anonymous?

[F-ck Casey]

No. You don't have to be Anon unless you want to be. I have no reason to conceal my identity, it's not like I'm in the hacking sector of Anon. Those are the ones that don't advertise the cause or their real name, etc. They have more of a reason to hide who they are then you or I do. I'm mainly interested in going to protests and spreading the word about what Anon is doing. With the 3 phase program, they've changed their structure and how they go about doing things. It's not about being anonymous anymore, unless you want to hide who you are.

[Blackee Dammet]

If you think Anonymous is 'a group' you already have no freaking clue of what you're talking about. Enjoy spouting memes and pretending to be a grassroots internet superhero.

[Benjamin]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gaXBWpN7ii8&feature=related

This is long overdue and I applaud these protesters for exercising their 1st amendment rights. Though they need to be more clear as to what their main goals are. I personally don't think (in the case of the U.S.) the system is flawed, rather the people running it are. That isn't directed at those in a specific party, but at the politicians as a whole.

[Derek The Infamous]

If you think Anonymous is 'a group' you already have no freaking clue of what you're talking about. Enjoy spouting memes and pretending to be a grassroots internet superhero. Was that towards me or Casey?

[Dean]

I guessed Casey, with the part about trying to be a grassroots internet superhero.

[Blackee Dammet]

Everyone.

Anonymous isn't a thing. Anonymous is what you're called on 4chan. People on 4chan decided one day to fuck with some Scientologists, silly schmucks saw that and thought "What's this... internet revolutionaries?! I WANT IN!" and somehow decided that a posting system for an anime imageboard is a rebel counter-culture brigade.

Let's take a look at some of these Anonymous wins;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MF_lOHUMyX0

Scientology? Nothing happened, nerds just had the fun of calling them crazy a lot.

The Iranian Revolution? People being beaten in Tehran were the heroes of that, not fat white kids on Twitter.

Operation Payback? It's called DDoSing, and it happens almost constantly, every day.

Occupy Wall Street? Congrats, you're biggest claim to fame is being pepper-sprayed by an angry fat policeman.

I'm not saying don't protest, I'm saying these clowns genuinely believe their own hype, which is pathetic.

In conclusion; this (http://images.encyclopediadramatica.ch/2/23/OccupyNewfagsMeme.jpg).

[Derek The Infamous]

Yeah, because if it's towards me...I already know Anon is not a group or some terrorist organization. There's no "hacking sector" or "non hacking sector" or individual groups because Anon itself is not a group but instead an offshot of 4chan. Anonymous doesn't have one big collective place to meet on the internet, and there is no designated leader. It's not like Al-Queda where you kill Osama Bin Laden and you cripple their defenses. Anon is everywhere. There are twitter accounts out there that may claim to represent "Anon" or who advertise campaigns "AnonOps", but that's only the tip of it. There's plenty of hackers/people out there who call themselves "Anon" but act totally independent of other Anonymous members. It's why sometimes you'll see so called "official" Anon members making statements on behalf of Anon, discouraging acts committed by other members of Anon. Confusing sure, but the fact is...it's impossible to categorize something that in itself is not intended to be categorized.

And honestly, it's wrong to even call the people "members" because...yeah, not a group.

[Timothy]

This is about the La Li Lu Le Lo, right?

[Blackee Dammet]

Yeah, because if it's towards me...I already know Anon is not a group or some terrorist organization. There's no "hacking sector" or "non hacking sector" or individual groups because Anon itself is not a group but instead an offshot of 4chan. Anonymous doesn't have one big collective place to meet on the internet, and there is no designated leader. It's not like Al-Queda where you kill Osama Bin Laden and you cripple their defenses. Anon is everywhere. There are twitter accounts out there that may claim to represent "Anon" or who advertise campaigns "AnonOps", but that's only the tip of it. There's plenty of hackers/people out there who call themselves "Anon" but act totally independent of other Anonymous members. It's why sometimes you'll see so called "official" Anon members making statements on behalf of Anon, discouraging acts committed by other members of Anon. Confusing sure, but the fact is...it's impossible to categorize something that in itself is not intended to be categorized.

And honestly, it's wrong to even call the people "members" because...yeah, not a group.

You're not getting what I'm saying, I know what they think they are. I'm saying that they're just schmucks screaming vague, empty things and 4chan memes and trying to pass themselves off as a worldwide freedom fighting movement.

Nerds taking themselves waaaaay too serious is what I'm getting at.

I hope you like copypasta, because it's more or less what i'm trying to get across;


People these days seem to think we are some sort of Internet vigilante group, That couldn't be further from the truth. We are the little voice in the back of your head that wants to fuck your hot sixteen year old daughter. We are the father who beats his six year old child simply because he spilled his beer. We are every chef that's ever spit in some random person's food for the hell of it. We are the pyromaniac who burns down the homeless shelter for shits and giggles. We are the person who rapes the same girl twice. We are that feeling you get when you beat your pets; and enjoy it. We see some guy hang himself live, we laugh. A wrestler kills his family, we laugh. Some maladjusted Asian shoots up his university, we laugh. Fifty-thousand die in North Korea, we laugh. AIDS ravages a continent, we laugh. An Austrian man locks his daughter in his basement for 24 years and fathers 8 children with her, we laugh. A religion invented by a psychotic writer swindles countless gullible fucktards out of their cash, we laugh, and then go kick his religion's ass just for the hell of it. We aren't some vigilante group righting wrongs. We aren't your friends, your buddies or your saviors. Your feelings mean nothing to us. We are human nature unencumbered by pointless ethics, foolish moralities or arbitrary laws and restrictions. We are every dark impulse you have; unrestrained and fully realized. We are what deep down, you wish you were. We exist as a means for instant gratification, purely at our own whim. We have no culture, we have no laws, written or otherwise. We are an autonomous collective, each an insignificant part of a whole. You cannot assimilate us, we do not change. You cannot defeat us, we do not exist. You cannot infiltrate us, we know our own. We do not sleep, we do not eat and we do not feel remorse. We will tear you apart from outside and in, we have all the time in the world. You operate under the delusion that we will someday be outdated, that we might even see the light. You are irrevocably wrong. You are not special, you are not unique and you aren't crusaders for justice. You're a blend of college age f*ggots who think that they can do some sort of good, and who are desperate to belong, to have attention. You have accomplished nothing, and you will fall. Enjoy your AIDS, f*ggots.

But God help you if you fuck with a cat.

[Derek The Infamous]

I'm glad that's a quote because it broke at least two of our rules lol. But yeah, the above sums up how I feel about 4Chan. 4Chan is the unwiped asshole of the internets.

[Blackee Dammet]

Yes, yes it is. So you can imagine what it looks like when people take incredibly old 4chan jokes, take them seriously, and then do... all that with them.

[Derek The Infamous]

Yes, yes it is. So you can imagine what it looks like when people take incredibly old 4chan jokes, take them seriously, and then do... all that with them. I had an...unpleasant situation involving 4chan to say the least. I'm not a huge fan. I love the memes that come out of there, but the general culture/content that gets posted over there? Yeah no.

[El Muerto]

They made a meme about you?

[Dean]

I wasn't referring to Anonymous as a group in the sense that Blackee means... I'm talking about how in certain quarters of the internet there are plenty of anons who are very resentful and bitter towards "newfags" and the like, whether they're the ones who take part in these protests or not. Not that it's something to be proud of but I know plenty more than you're giving me credit for, thanks very much.

[Derek The Infamous]

They made a meme about you? No, cause then I'd be world famous as pretty much any meme that comes from there is gold. :lol:

[Jeff]

Derek the Infamous is not a meme. :kappa:

[Dean]

Also, as bad as they get, most other 4chan boards still don't really deserve to be lumped in with /b/. Except /v/ which is possibly worse.

[Derek The Infamous]

I didn't even know about /v/. Should I be scared?

[Dean]

/v/ is /b/ with more videogames and unwarranted elitism.

[Derek The Infamous]

/v/ is /b/ with more videogames and unwarranted elitism. http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSeZpnTZb6fjPViimTnSdpE4Y0Get2dc f4KLfv--3ryWgyjL9p4Uldb5XMfug

[Blackee Dammet]

Slightly back on topic, apparently WITP "members" are getting dox'd with hilarious regularity.


So, lol.

[Benjamin]

I got published in the Star Tribune (main Twin Cities newspaper) regarding this issue. Though I should point out that I wrote this mostly to get extra credit in my government class, haha. Also, they messed with my wording a little which I guess is something I should have expected.


'OCCUPY WALL STREET'
Will this movement matter? (It should.)
Seven hundred people were arrested after taking their two-week-old protest to the Brooklyn Bridge (Nation+World, Oct. 2). Twenty years from now, will these protesters be known as heroes, or will this movement fizzle soon and be forgotten?

What the movement known as "Occupy Wall Street" has going for it is the fact that it is branching out across the country (including an "Occupy MN" protest set to begin this Friday). Furthermore, various celebrities are supporting it.

So what's going to stop this movement from being successful? For starters, the media. For the first few weeks, the only media coverage it got was from Keith Olbermann, who was yelling at the rest of the media for not covering it.

Another problem is that the movement's goals/objectives are ambiguous. Perhaps organizers are trying to garner as many followers as possible, but a lot of people would want to know what the main cause is before they take time off from work or school to start protesting on the streets for what could be months.

Unlike with the Arab Spring, an overthrow of government is not necessary in America, but I think it's about time the people begin to exercise their First Amendment rights and protest what they think is a system that's currently more concerned with politics than the interests of its people.

BEN SCHNEIDER, EDEN PRAIRIE

http://www.startribune.com/opinion/letters/131017138.html

[Jordan]

Late to this thread, but "anonymous" don't really have anything to do with 4chan anymore. Most people who browse /b/ reject what they do, and the group has grown entirely separate.

On the topic of 4chan, while /b/ and probably lesser known /soc/ (and /mu/ most of the time) are easily the worst places on the internet - for more alternative interests 4chan holds some of the best boards on the internet. /a/ is the best place to talk about anime, and I've read incredibly intelligent discussion on /tv/, /x/ and /adv/. I bet most people here don't realise they have a board titled "Animals and Nature" either.

[Blackee Dammet]

The entire thing is just so neckbeards can say Look, "I'm protesting! I'm an activist!"

On that note, do register and read that "What is-The Plan?" website. In between people coming up with hilariously bad plots for "New operations!", there's a really sweet Holocaust denial thread. Oh, and the guy behind it was a failed Encyclopedia Dramatica administrator, and had a weird manifesto about starting "virtual tribes". That kind of read like some L Ron Hubbard shit, oddly enough.

Anywho, enjoy dat REVOLUTION, guys...

[Blackee Dammet]

I want you all to read something. Humor me a bit;


Do you realize what a unique opportunity "The Plan" is?

Do you really?

As of this post, we are over 15,000 strong, and only growing faster.

15,000 able, ready-and-willing Anons.

Never before in the history of Anonymous has the hivemind been so motivated, educated, and mature.

Not even in Project Chanology.

This is something everyone should pause to consider.

To paraphrase Thomas Paine, "We have it in our power to create the hivemind anew."

And as we progress towards Operation: Onslaught, in which the hivemind will enter into meatspace once again, we must seize this opportunity that circumstances have afforded us.

Simply because, we may not get another chance to do it right again.

And so, we must start organizing our local Anonymous groups, and start doing it now.



Two days earlier, I had posted Vibecraft: Finding Our Rhythm, Organizing Locally and Globally.

"What the hell is Vibecraft anyway?" you might ask.

Vibecraft is the process of creating and maintaining Virtual Tribes, or Vibes; local Anonymous Hivemind communities. For organization purposes, you may consider the term "Vibe" as synonymous with "cell", although we must not use the word "cell", as that makes us sound like terrorists. And terrorists we are not!


The organization of a community can be analagous to the organization of a constellation or a star cluster (such as the Pleiades), so that the roles of members can be analagous to the types of celestial bodies. Thus, the Owner represents the constellation itself. Admins represent stars. Moderators represent the Planets. OP's or "Original Posters", those who can create threads, represent Moons (Lunars), and Newfag Anons represent the Meteors (which can become dangerous to the Moons/Planets if not captured in the orbit of a Planet, at which point it becomes a Moon).

The maximum size of any Vibe community will be 148 active, participating members, including staff and administration.

The breakdown of user roles and ratios is as follows:

Vibe Constellation
1 Cluster
7 Solars
14 Planetaries
126 Lunars/Meteors (Ratio of <= 2:1)

Vibe Star
1 Solar
7 Planetary
42 Lunars/Meteors (Ratio of <= 2:1)

Vibe Planet
1 Planetary
6 Lunars/Meteors (Ratio of <= 2:1)

Now, call me a cynical cunt, but does strike anyone else as a bit... well... batshit?

[Jordan]

While you're lurking the site, can you post some of the protests that they're actually carrying out? The site's a mess and so far it doesn't seem like they're actually doing anything...

[Blackee Dammet]

No, that's the thing, they aren't doing anything. Piggybacking on people already on Wall Street and coming up with "more operations", but they're actually doing very little themselves.

But apparently they're at war with 'Why We Protest', aka the Chanology guys. Which explains a little. Oh, and think the government is spying on them. Specifically, them. And when they have to ban people, it's because they're government agents. I shit you not...

311231133114

[Dean]

Late to this thread, but "anonymous" don't really have anything to do with 4chan anymore. Most people who browse /b/ reject what they do, and the group has grown entirely separate.

On the topic of 4chan, while /b/ and probably lesser known /soc/ (and /mu/ most of the time) are easily the worst places on the internet - for more alternative interests 4chan holds some of the best boards on the internet. /a/ is the best place to talk about anime, and I've read incredibly intelligent discussion on /tv/, /x/ and /adv/. I bet most people here don't realise they have a board titled "Animals and Nature" either.
That's got to be the first time anyone's said that about /x/ and /adv/ haha.

It's all about /co/ and /trv/, and /tv/ on its good days. That said, there are plenty of places on the internet where you can discuss TV and film that aren't full of paedophiles and dirty old men and people who throw around the word "hipster" more than they probably breathe. :P

/mu/ is ok if you just take into account that a lot of it pretty much is one big example of trolls trolling trolls trolling etc. /soc/ has been fun the times I've actually been on there. 4channers take shit like that far too seriously.

I would use /fa/ and /fit/ far more if they had less dicks posting on them but they don't often deserve the worst of their reputations either.

I still say the only unmitigatedly terrible boards there are /b/ and /v/. /x/ is pretty bad as well. That said I haven't been on the site in general much for a year or two now.


Also, fuck Holocaust deniers.

[Agent O]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6yrT-0Xbrn4&feature=player_embedded

K.O.

[Jordan]

That's got to be the first time anyone's said that about /x/ and /adv/ haha.

It's all about /co/ and /trv/, and /tv/ on its good days. That said, there are plenty of places on the internet where you can discuss TV and film that aren't full of paedophiles and dirty old men and people who throw around the word "hipster" more than they probably breathe. :P

/mu/ is ok if you just take into account that a lot of it pretty much is one big example of trolls trolling trolls trolling etc. /soc/ has been fun the times I've actually been on there. 4channers take shit like that far too seriously.

I would use /fa/ and /fit/ far more if they had less dicks posting on them but they don't often deserve the worst of their reputations either.

I still say the only unmitigatedly terrible boards there are /b/ and /v/. /x/ is pretty bad as well. That said I haven't been on the site in general much for a year or two now.


Also, fuck Holocaust deniers.

/x/ is fun as shit when ARGs are going on, and /adv/ very occasionally has a good thread if you go a bit past the first page. /mu/ is becoming more like /v/ in that, neither of them actually listen to music or play video games anymore - and generally just hate everything. /soc/ is filled with asl, names, avatars, people sharing msns and 30 year old dudes pretending to be 15 year old girls - pretty painful to lurk.

[Derek The Infamous]

My friend Alex summed this up perfectly: "This is an embarrassment to my generation. It's childish, misguided, ignorant, and just plain stupid. Grow up. Get jobs.". And I agree with him. These people aren't "heroes", and need to shut up already.

[Luke]

They're not going to accomplish anything because it's pretty evident to me that the creators of this group have no idea what their ultimate goals are or how they're going to achieve them. Protesting has in recent years proven to be an ineffective waste of time so what the hell do they hope to accomplish by gathering on Wall Street or wherever? For example, there are people outside the Houses of Parliament in London for ten years now protesting the invasion of Afghanistan. There have been regular protests for 40 years in Syntagma Square in Athens, Greece protesting Turkish occupation in Northern Cyprus. These are just a couple of examples, but when it comes down to it, protesting these days does nothing.

Unfortunately we live in an era where people want change but are willing to do fuck all about it and don't have the patience to persue it.

[Timothy]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6yrT-0Xbrn4&feature=player_embedded

K.O.

This guy obviously hasn't been reading up on Austrian-School economics. For-profit healthcare is bad? Quick, someone save this man!


http://g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/askville/1695487_15041426_mywrite/televangelist.jpg

Oh my dear savior Ron Paul-ah! Spare this heathen's soul, for he does not know the turpitude of which he speaks! Let the purity of the invisible hand of the free market absolve him of his sins-ah! Avert his eyes from the pornography of the liberal media, and let the bright light of capitalism shine to the very depths of his heart-ah! 'Cause it's not too late, no sir! It's never too late to save a soul!

Hallelujah! Praise the lawd!

[Blackee Dammet]

/soc/ gets a really bad rep I see, I've had really good conversations with local people I've met on there.

[Derek The Infamous]

This guy obviously hasn't been reading up on Austrian-School economics. For-profit healthcare is bad? Quick, someone save this man!


http://g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/askville/1695487_15041426_mywrite/televangelist.jpg

Oh my dear savior Ron Paul-ah! Spare this heathen's soul, for he does not know the turpitude of which he speaks! Let the purity of the invisible hand of the free market absolve him of his sins-ah! Avert his eyes from the pornography of the liberal media, and let the bright light of capitalism shine to the very depths of his heart-ah! 'Cause it's not too late, no sir! It's never too late to save a soul!

Hallelujah! Praise the lawd! http://thelama.bullet-head.net/Stuff/spock_win.jpg

[Benjamin]

My friend Alex summed this up perfectly: "This is an embarrassment to my generation. It's childish, misguided, ignorant, and just plain stupid. Grow up. Get jobs.". And I agree with him. These people aren't "heroes", and need to shut up already.

So the people of this country should shut up? Please elaborate on this.

[Derek The Infamous]

So the people of this country should shut up? Please elaborate on this. I think kids who protest for the sake of protesting and who have absolutely no direction, are misguided and who aren't even well organized should shut up yes. Do you have a clear answer as to what OTP is about? Do you even know why they're protesting? No. And neither do the kids who march out there to look cool and protest because "OMG GUYS WE WANT TO DO A REVOLUTION!". Proof here:


"Hey President Obama, get ready for our one demand!" Here's the opening sentence: "On Saturday thousands of us will occupy Wall Street. We will wave our signs, unfurl our banners, beat our drums, chant our slogans…and then we'll get down to business and hold several people's assemblies to decide what our 'one demand' will be

In short, they we're like 'OKAI, WE'RE GOING TO GO PROTEST BUT DECIDE WHEN WE GET THERE WHAT WE'RE PROTESTING ABOUT LOL'. They're idiots, and won't be remembered as heroes or the start of any revolution. If you're going to rebel and protest, you should know what you're fighting for, not just make it up as you go along. There's a reason why 4chan/Project Chanology are at war with these kids: OTP has no fucking clue what they're doing.

[Dean]

Yeah, at least Chanology ostensibly had a worthy cause, or even just a definite cause for that matter.

If anyone takes the wheel and something good actually comes from this then great, otherwise I'm just indifferent to it at best.


/soc/ gets a really bad rep I see, I've had really good conversations with local people I've met on there.
Somebody gets it, it's just good for a laugh based on the times I've looked there.

Then again that sums up the whole site for me, nothing to take too seriously but good for some fun if you've got nothing better to do.

[Benjamin]

I think it's pretty obvious that it's an overal liberal movement consisting of people frustrated with corporate greed and the gap between the rich and poor. But even if there are conservatives there who are protesting the complete opposite, so what? What's wrong with the general public showing it's disapproval in the current system in ways other than going in comment sections or forum threads saying OMG WTF GOVERNMENT Y U NO TAX RICH MORE (or whatever).

With all of that said I'm not going to go around spreading OMG OCCUPY THE PLANET GUYS like other people have been. I do not believe in that brainwashing bull shit nor do I associate myself with this "anonymous" hoopla. I just think it's a breath of fresh air to see people out in the streets showing their frustration instead of on the internet at home. It may even give our politicians a more sense of urgency.

[El Muerto]

I'm pretty sure politicians don't give a shit about people in the streets unless they're carrying weapons and burning/destroying everything around them. When did anyone get anything with peaceful protests..

[Dean]

I'm pretty sure politicians don't give a shit about people in the streets unless they're carrying weapons and burning/destroying everything around them. When did anyone get anything with peaceful protests..
Violent "protest" doesn't necessarily get you anywhere either, if some people's reaction to our current government is anything to go by.

[Benjamin]

I'm pretty sure politicians don't give a shit about people in the streets unless they're carrying weapons and burning/destroying everything around them. When did anyone get anything with peaceful protests..

You'd like to think the good politicians would, indeed, give a shit. But it does seem like there aren't many of those anymore.

And Dean there's a third option:

Do absolutely nothing and hope something good happens.

[travz21]

235 years ago the government actually did what the people wanted it to do, since that was what it was created for. Now the government owns the people. Way to go, America. Thanks for letting that happen. Now we can protest all we want and it won't make much of a difference because the higher powers can do whatever they please. Especially since they don't even follow the constitution anymore.

[El Muerto]

So I'm reading this thread and I just realized that on this exact day (05.10) 11 years ago we overthrew our government with violent protests.

And where are we now? Sure we don't have one dictator ruling our country but we have an entire government of them, with the opposition that is even worse. We don't have one man stealing our money, we have 20 of them. We're still poor, still on the brink of war, still not in the EU, we have more unemployed people than ever.

And the sad thing is that I think all those Arab countries that had revolutions this year will see the same fate. There's no true democracy nowadays, it's not about the people anymore, it's all about the money..

/random rant

[travz21]

That's the bad part about overthrowing a government. Unless you have a solid plan in place, something worse could take over. That's going to be the case in all of the Middle Eastern nations we destroyed. We don't even know how to run our own country. Do you think we'll actually be able to help these nations with rebooting their government? Maybe if Thomas Jefferson were still around.

[F-ck Casey]

lulz get a job

and these people need to get a job, too. THIS DOESN'T MAKE SENSE AMIRITE


This was unanimously voted on by all members of Occupy Wall Street last night, around 8pm, Sept 29. It is our first official document for release. We have three more underway, that will likely be released in the upcoming days: 1) A declaration of demands. 2) Principles of Solidarity 3) Documentation on how to form your own Direct Democracy Occupation Group.

This is a living document. you can receive an official press copy of the latest version by emailing c2anycga@gmail.com.

Declaration of the Occupation of New York City

As we gather together in solidarity to express a feeling of mass injustice, we must not lose sight of what brought us together. We write so that all people who feel wronged by the corporate forces of the world can know that we are your allies.

As one people, united, we acknowledge the reality: that the future of the human race requires the cooperation of its members; that our system must protect our rights, and upon corruption of that system, it is up to the individuals to protect their own rights, and those of their neighbors; that a democratic government derives its just power from the people, but corporations do not seek consent to extract wealth from the people and the Earth; and that no true democracy is attainable when the process is determined by economic power. We come to you at a time when corporations, which place profit over people, self-interest over justice, and oppression over equality, run our governments. We have peaceably assembled here, as is our right, to let these facts be known.

They have taken our houses through an illegal foreclosure process, despite not having the original mortgage.

They have taken bailouts from taxpayers with impunity, and continue to give Executives exorbitant bonuses.

They have perpetuated inequality and discrimination in the workplace based on age, the color of one's skin, sex, gender identity and sexual orientation.

They have poisoned the food supply through negligence, and undermined the farming system through monopolization.

They have profited off of the torture, confinement, and cruel treatment of countless nonhuman animals, and actively hide these practices.

They have continuously sought to strip employees of the right to negotiate for better pay and safer working conditions.

They have held students hostage with tens of thousands of dollars of debt on education, which is itself a human right.

They have consistently outsourced labor and used that outsourcing as leverage to cut workers’ healthcare and pay.

They have influenced the courts to achieve the same rights as people, with none of the culpability or responsibility.

They have spent millions of dollars on legal teams that look for ways to get them out of contracts in regards to health insurance.

They have sold our privacy as a commodity.

They have used the military and police force to prevent freedom of the press.

They have deliberately declined to recall faulty products endangering lives in pursuit of profit.

They determine economic policy, despite the catastrophic failures their policies have produced and continue to produce.

They have donated large sums of money to politicians supposed to be regulating them.

They continue to block alternate forms of energy to keep us dependent on oil.

They continue to block generic forms of medicine that could save people’s lives in order to protect investments that have already turned a substantive profit.

They have purposely covered up oil spills, accidents, faulty bookkeeping, and inactive ingredients in pursuit of profit.

They purposefully keep people misinformed and fearful through their control of the media.

They have accepted private contracts to murder prisoners even when presented with serious doubts about their guilt.

They have perpetuated colonialism at home and abroad.

They have participated in the torture and murder of innocent civilians overseas.

They continue to create weapons of mass destruction in order to receive government contracts. *

To the people of the world,

We, the New York City General Assembly occupying Wall Street in Liberty Square, urge you to assert your power.

Exercise your right to peaceably assemble; occupy public space; create a process to address the problems we face, and generate solutions accessible to everyone.

To all communities that take action and form groups in the spirit of direct democracy, we offer support, documentation, and all of the resources at our disposal.

Join us and make your voices heard!

let's continue to make fun of these people because they can't find a decent job, which just happens to be one of the reasons they're protesting. They're the overeducated and under employed, it's not like 100% of them are burnout hippies or something. What about the war vets taking part? The active marines? The people over 30 that are there?

Way to sound like the right wing media that you guys hate sooooo much.

http://occupywallst.org/forum/proposed-list-of-demands-please-help-editadd-so-th/

The above link is a much better, more thought out list of demands that's being proposed. Don't read the other link that's been floating around, labeled as the official "list of demands". That one is like a high school student wrote it for a social studies class or somethin'

[Jordan]

I'm pretty sure politicians don't give a shit about people in the streets unless they're carrying weapons and burning/destroying everything around them. When did anyone get anything with peaceful protests..

ummmmmmmmm, try the civil rights movement of america?

[Ryo Hazuki]

Haven't been following the news much lately so I don't exactly know what to think.

[travz21]

Most liberals that are protesting don't understand that the rich are our economic friends. They have the capital that we need in order for us common folk to work and they supply goods for the consumer. They are the sole thing that adds value to the economy. They are our production centers that keep the nation afloat and competitive. They have the offices, buildings, machinery, etc. that enables a productive and profitable society. When we go after them and either want to A) Tax them more (or even tax them at all), B) Enforce more regulations and restrictions on them, or C) Both, it hurts the growth of our economy, and if there's too much of it, we start degrading. Now we can't even keep up with our yearly spending and our economy has a negative output. By taxing the rich and hindering the corporations, we just dig ourselves into a bigger hole. The mindset that we have, and that actually does seem most logical, but isn't, is that we should tax the rich more to help with the load. But thinking about things in a different way than we've been taught makes things more clear about how an economy really grows.

They can be computer companies, clothing companies, automobile industries, even local shops owned by small business owners. Any business that produces something adds value to our economy, not just the huge, corrupt corporations that the government allows to buy them off. All of these businesses also supply the public with jobs. By doing A, B, or C, we make it cost more for the businesses to add value to our economy, we make it cost more for them to hire workers and expand their business (if even possible at all), prices go up and effect the consumer, everyone has less money, and our economy doesn't grow.

This is why there are so many people unemployed. It's a part of the reason prices have been going up. And it's part of the reason we're outspending ourselves into a massive debt.


The worst thing for our economy is the federal government. All it does is relocate the funds of its citizens. It doesn't produce 1 cent for the economy. And worse, it destroys value by going to war, sending troops overseas, and paying all of the workers it employs. And a government job is a negative output job to the economy because it doesn't produce value and all it does is takes money from the public. The government also sucks because it regulates the market in an unfair manner. This allows some failing businesses to thrive, which in turn buys off the government to keep regulating things how these corrupt businesses desire, stifling competition and not allowing the small businesses to get off the ground. It just snowballs into a clusterfuck which we're experiencing today.


I don't know how to finish this ramble, but these are just some things that advocates of taxing the rich don't understand. They probably think Elizabeth Warren is a right.

Edit: And I can't forget the Federal Reserve lol. Don't know how I did. The Fed is the most dangerous to our economy. Controlling interest rates and the printing of money without having to answer to anyone. Now that's scary.

[Harlz]

If you think Anonymous is 'a group' you already have no freaking clue of what you're talking about. Enjoy spouting memes and pretending to be a grassroots internet superhero.

Exactly.



Also I am anonymous' leader, just so you know.
Prove me wrong.

[Dean]

The best way to help yourself in finding a job at the moment is to be pro-active. Do some volunteer work or something, that's what I did and I went from practically nothing to having interviews/offers for great jobs rolling in. Maybe their hearts are actually in the right place but unfortunately you can't go to Wall Street and essentially just demand that they create new jobs.


Don't read the other link that's been floating around, labeled as the official "list of demands". That one is like a high school student wrote it for a social studies class or somethin'
Yeah, I can see how that wouldn't quite be your station...

There could well be plenty of people who are sincerely behind this cause, but you can't really blame people here for not taking it too seriously when most of the information is coming via a bandwagoner like you. Remember when you were a Satanist? Remember when you were a Sunni Muslim? And then you were a communist? A couple of months ago you were posting everywhere that you just want a president who'll let you do drugs and now you're suddenly all about putting the world to rights. What's your next bullshit cause celebre gonna be? Kabbalah? Raelism? The only thread of consistency is you doing a pretty pathetic job of coming across as some subversive counter-cultural badass. Fuck outta here. Adults are talking.

[El Muerto]

That was the best post in this thread haha

edit:

And what's even better is that every time I refresh the page, there's more things in it haha

[Dean]

http://obit-mag.com/media/image/Bowing-Man.jpg

[Derek The Infamous]

Thank you Blackee and Dean for being the voice of reason and sense in this thread. Your post(s) summed up absolutely everything I was going to say to Casey and then some.

[deftonesfan867]

The best way to help yourself in finding a job at the moment is to be pro-active. Do some volunteer work or something, that's what I did and I went from practically nothing to having interviews/offers for great jobs rolling in. Maybe their hearts are actually in the right place but unfortunately you can't go to Wall Street and essentially just demand that they create new jobs.


Yeah, I can see how that wouldn't quite be your station...

There could well be plenty of people who are sincerely behind this cause, but you can't really blame people here for not taking it too seriously when most of the information is coming via a bandwagoner like you. Remember when you were a Satanist? Remember when you were a Sunni Muslim? And then you were a communist? A couple of months ago you were posting everywhere that you just want a president who'll let you do drugs and now you're suddenly all about putting the world to rights. What's your next bullshit cause celebre gonna be? Kabbalah? Raelism? The only thread of consistency is you doing a pretty pathetic job of coming across as some subversive counter-cultural badass. Fuck outta here. Adults are talking.

This. Motherfucking this.

[Blackee Dammet]

lulz get a job

and these people need to get a job, too. THIS DOESN'T MAKE SENSE AMIRITE



let's continue to make fun of these people because they can't find a decent job, which just happens to be one of the reasons they're protesting. They're the overeducated and under employed, it's not like 100% of them are burnout hippies or something. What about the war vets taking part? The active marines? The people over 30 that are there?

Way to sound like the right wing media that you guys hate sooooo much.

http://occupywallst.org/forum/proposed-list-of-demands-please-help-editadd-so-th/

The above link is a much better, more thought out list of demands that's being proposed. Don't read the other link that's been floating around, labeled as the official "list of demands". That one is like a high school student wrote it for a social studies class or somethin'

Ok, but you do know I actually signed up and have been posting links from Wi-TP that we've been laughing at, right? Quite unlike DAT RIGHTWING MEDIA, I went out and actually dug up some things that validated the whole "Wow these people are schmucks" theory I had.

Nobody is saying protesting as an act is mindless and stupid, we're saying that the group you've decided to affiliate with happens to be filled with 13 year olds and was started by a lunatic that thinks he's going to have "Anonymous" tribes set up like separatist splinter cells.

[Derek The Infamous]

Nobody is saying protesting as an act is mindless and stupid, we're saying that the group you've decided to affiliate with happens to be filled with 13 year olds and was started by a lunatic that thinks he's going to have "Anonymous" tribes set up like separatist splinter cells. Isn't that what most of Anon is anyways? Aren't 95% of people who claim to be Anon, just 13-15 year old trolls/hackers who think they're all high and mighty because they hide behind internet anonymity?

[Blackee Dammet]

Touche.

[Timothy]

I think protesting, be it peaceful or violent, still has merit, but it needs to have a clear message and be well organized. I'm sure a lot of people would get behind something like this if it had a little more thought put into it. As it stands, though, people aren't taking it very seriously.

[Derek The Infamous]

I think protesting, be it peaceful or violent, still has merit, but it needs to have a clear message and be well organized. I'm sure a lot of people would get behind something like this if it had a little more thought put into it. As it stands, though, people aren't taking it very seriously. http://www.norcalblogs.com/bored/a.jpg

http://content.artofmanliness.com/uploads/2009/10/mad-men-2.jpg

[Dean]

http://www.norcalblogs.com/bored/a.jpg

http://content.artofmanliness.com/uploads/2009/10/mad-men-2.jpg
Derek standing behind Jon Hamm there

[Derek The Infamous]

I'm secretly in every TV/Movie cast. You just don't see me. :kappa:

[Benjamin]

I'm willing to bet that a lot of people who are now deciding to go to these protests have no idea what "anonymous" is or don't know that they/it has anything to do with this.

[Derek The Infamous]

I'm willing to bet that a lot of people who are now deciding to go to these protests have no idea what "anonymous" is or don't know that they/it has anything to do with this. Would you also be willing to bet that they have any idea what they're protesting about or what the demands are? Just because you're protesting greed, doesn't mean you have a final agenda. Sure, they don't like greed (who does) but....what do they want to come out of this? Jobs to materialize out of thin air?

[Benjamin]

This article basically sums up what I think of this:


Like the spokesmen for Arab dictators feigning bewilderment over protesters' demands, mainstream television news reporters finally training their attention on the growing Occupy Wall Street protest movement seem determined to cast it as the random, silly blather of an ungrateful and lazy generation of weirdos. They couldn't be more wrong and, as time will tell, may eventually be forced to accept the inevitability of their own obsolescence.

Consider how CNN anchor Erin Burnett, covered the goings on at Zuccotti Park downtown, where the protesters are encamped, in a segment called "Seriously?!" "What are they protesting?" she asked, "nobody seems to know." Like Jay Leno testing random mall patrons on American History, the main objective seemed to be to prove that the protesters didn't, for example, know that the U.S. government has been reimbursed for the bank bailouts. It was condescending and reductionist.

More predictably perhaps, a Fox News reporter appears flummoxed in this outtake from "On the Record," in which the respondent refuses to explain how he wants the protests to "end." Transcending the shallow partisan politics of the moment, the protester explains "As far as seeing it end, I wouldn't like to see it end. I would like to see the conversation continue."

To be fair, the reason why some mainstream news journalists and many of the audiences they serve see the Occupy Wall Street protests as incoherent is because the press and the public are themselves. It is difficult to comprehend a 21st century movement from the perspective of the 20th century politics, media, and economics in which we are still steeped.

In fact, we are witnessing America's first true Internet-era movement, which -- unlike civil rights protests, labor marches, or even the Obama campaign -- does not take its cue from a charismatic leader, express itself in bumper-sticker-length goals and understand itself as having a particular endpoint.

Yes, there are a wide array of complaints, demands, and goals from the Wall Street protesters: the collapsing environment, labor standards, housing policy, government corruption, World Bank lending practices, unemployment, increasing wealth disparity and so on. Different people have been affected by different aspects of the same system -- and they believe they are symptoms of the same core problem.

Are they ready to articulate exactly what that problem is and how to address it? No, not yet. But neither are Congress or the president who, in thrall to corporate America and Wall Street, respectively, have consistently failed to engage in anything resembling a conversation as cogent as the many I witnessed as I strolled by Occupy Wall Street's many teach-ins this morning. There were young people teaching one another about, among other things, how the economy works, about the disconnection of investment banking from the economy of goods and services, the history of centralized interest-bearing currency, the creation and growth of the derivatives industry, and about the Obama administration deciding to settle with, rather than investigate and prosecute the investment banking industry for housing fraud.

Anyone who says he has no idea what these folks are protesting is not being truthful. Whether we agree with them or not, we all know what they are upset about, and we all know that there are investment bankers working on Wall Street getting richer while things for most of the rest of us are getting tougher. What upsets banking's defenders and politicians alike is the refusal of this movement to state its terms or set its goals in the traditional language of campaigns.

That's because, unlike a political campaign designed to get some person in office and then close up shop (as in the election of Obama), this is not a movement with a traditional narrative arc. As the product of the decentralized networked-era culture, it is less about victory than sustainability. It is not about one-pointedness, but inclusion and groping toward consensus. It is not like a book; it is like the Internet.
Occupy Wall Street is meant more as a way of life that spreads through contagion, creates as many questions as it answers, aims to force a reconsideration of the way the nation does business and offers hope to those of us who previously felt alone in our belief that the current economic system is broken.

But unlike a traditional protest, which identifies the enemy and fights for a particular solution, Occupy Wall Street just sits there talking with itself, debating its own worth, recognizing its internal inconsistencies and then continuing on as if this were some sort of new normal. It models a new collectivism, picking up on the sustainable protest village of the movement's Egyptian counterparts, with food, first aid, and a library.

Yes, as so many journalists seem obligated to point out, kids are criticizing corporate America while tweeting through their iPhones. The simplistic critique is that if someone is upset about corporate excess, he is supposed to abandon all connection with any corporate product. Of course, the more nuanced approach to such tradeoffs would be to seek balance rather than ultimatums. Yes, there are things big corporations might do very well, like making iPhones. There are other things big corporations may not do so well, like structure mortgage derivatives. Might we be able to use corporations for what works, and get them out of doing what doesn't?

And yes, some kids are showing up at Occupy Wall Street because it's fun. They come for the people, the excitement, the camaraderie and the sense of purpose they might not be able to find elsewhere. But does this mean that something about Occupy Wall Street is lacking, or that it is providing something that jobs and schools are not (thanks in part to rising unemployment and skyrocketing tuitions)?

The members of Occupy Wall Street may be as unwieldy, paradoxical, and inconsistent as those of us living in the real world. But that is precisely why their new approach to protest is more applicable, sustainable and actionable than what passes for politics today. They are suggesting that the fiscal operating system on which we are attempting to run our economy is no longer appropriate to the task. They mean to show that there is an inappropriate and correctable disconnect between the abundance America produces and the scarcity its markets manufacture.

And in the process, they are pointing the way toward something entirely different than the zero-sum game of artificial scarcity favoring top-down investors and media makers alike.

http://www.cnn.com/2011/10/05/opinion/rushkoff-occupy-wall-street/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

I really can't think of anything else to add to that.

[deftonesfan867]

I'm willing to bet that a lot of people who are now deciding to go to these protests have no idea what "anonymous" is or don't know that they/it has anything to do with this.

Sheep only follow their herders.

[travz21]

what do they want to come out of this? Jobs to materialize out of thin air?

That's what Obama already tries to do.

[Timothy]

http://www.cnn.com/2011/10/05/opinion/rushkoff-occupy-wall-street/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

Trying to excuse the lack of focus in the protests because they're some kind of microcosm for modern life is a bit of a cop out, as far as I'm concerned. Another case of a journalist over-intellectualizing something.


Don't get me wrong: I agree with the sentiment of the protests 100%. But fuck, man, if you're going to do something, do it right.

[F-ck Casey]

http://www.esquire.com/blogs/politics/occupy-wall-street-demands-6506089?click=pp

Read it. Or don't, I don't really care. I'm only posting this to spread the word (even more) and for those that are even vaguely interested in the cause. Everyone else can go read articles about Michelle Obama's fashion designer having a clothing line at Target, or how Chris Christie is the latest in a long line of potential "saviors" (HA HA).


If the primary criticism of the ongoing demonstrations is that they seem to lack, as a hundred media reports have put it, "a cohesive public message," that is also one of their great strengths. This is a very loud and clear yawp against the irresponsible use of power by unaccountable institutions, including, increasingly, the government itself. The protests here are omni-directional. They appear inchoate because their target is so diffuse. This is a protest about declining wages and corporate greed, about baroque financial schemes and the unfathomable fine print on the back of your credit-card statement, about a grand critique of mutated capitalism and outrage at the simple tragedy of foreclosure fraud.


Surely, in a presidential campaign year in which the effects of a savage economic downturn are the primary issue, an ongoing protest against the people largely responsible for that downturn is as worthy of inclusion in the national debate as something as useless as the Iowa Straw Poll.



I'm not going to stop updating this thread with news and worthwhile articles just because 99% of people posting in this thread are only making fun of the cause, or don't agree with it in some way. I believe in it, and if I could be in NY with all of them, I would be. If I could have went to the Occupy Nashville meet and greet instead of going to my shitty job for barely over minimum wage, I would have. I believe in this, with ALL of my heart, and nothing any of you have to say will ever change my mind about this. It's only getting bigger. We'll be heard, and that's all we really want in the grand scheme of things.

[Blackee Dammet]

[url]
I'm not going to stop updating this thread with news and worthwhile articles just because 99% of people posting in this thread are only making fun of the cause, or don't agree with it in some way.


... but... but...









We Are The 99%...

[F-ck Casey]

:nyan:

[Blackee Dammet]

I do like how you basically threw away everything your detractor had to say with a rousing "No, fuck you, I believe in it and I'm right". Now, personally, when something I stand for is being called out for being a vague, directionless excuse to rage for the sake of raging, my first response isn't necessarily going to be... that vague.

It's great you believe in something, it's just a shame you didn't pick something worthwhile to get so worked up about.

[F-ck Casey]

I'm very sorry I disappointed you. I'll try harder in the future, okay? :)

Never said I'm right, just said I believe in it and nothing any of you say can convince me differently. If you want to believe that I'm just sooo convinced I'm right about... whatever it is you think I'm right about, well, go ahead and keep thinking that. Meanwhile, I'll continue to update this thread with news and articles and whatnot.

:)

[Dean]

Bingo! (I just finished my Casey Cliches bingo card for this thread when he claimed to not care then carried on rambling incoherently)

[SuperDude526]

tl;dr so I don't know if this has been posted yet, but Jon Stewart had some interesting thoughts about the protest: http://www.thedailyshow.com/

The video is called "Parks and Demonstration"

[Timothy]

tl;dr so I don't know if this has been posted yet, but Jon Stewart had some interesting thoughts about the protest: http://www.thedailyshow.com/

The video is called "Parks and Demonstration"

I saw that this morning. Good stuff.

Gotta laugh at the tea baggers mocking this. Not every group has a cable news network backing it.

[Benjamin]

"America cannot expect a bunch of disenfranchised park-dwellers to come up with a solution to its economic woes -- they have a political ruling class to do that."

[SuperDude526]

"America cannot expect a bunch of disenfranchised park-dwellers to come up with a solution to its economic woes -- they have a political ruling class to do that."

Yes, I thought that was brilliant.

I'm not a fan of Anonymous somewhat hijacking these protests however; I am with them on their whole cause and everything, but Anonymous is the same "group" of people that bully people online mercilessly and once asked a 10 year-old girl to strip in front of a camera. No matter what I feel about them politically, I cannot get behind them with that hanging over their name.

[SuperDude526]

Since this topic has apparently died, allow me to jumpstart it slightly with this:

http://i.imgur.com/zQLlK.png

[F-ck Casey]

It's not dead, I've just been busy. I shouldn't have to be the only one updating this, though. If you see an article, or a YouTube video, or ANYTHING related to Occupy Wall Street, PLEEEEASE post it.

I can't wait for next Monday. Anon is threatening to erase NYSE from the internet.

[Derek The Infamous]

Citizens of the world

We are Anonymous! Recently something very disturbing has come to our attention. You must take all notices and information claiming to be 'Anonymous' with a grain of salt. Consider EVERYTHING.

Operation Invade Wall Street is bullshit! It is a fake planted operation by law enforcement and cyber crime agencies in order to get you to undermine the Occupy Wall Street movement. It proposes you use depreciated tools that have known flaws such as LOIC.

Anonymous would never tell you to use LOIC - Not after the arrests and failures of Operation Payback.

Anonymous wouldn't attack NYSE on a HOLIDAY - It is debatable if Anonymous would ever even attack NYSE.

Be wary friends!

We are Anonymous
We are Legion
We do not Forgive
We do not Forget
Expect Us
Be wary of imitations!



This is why I don't even pay attention to anything claiming to be "Anon" anymore. Anybody can claim they're "Anon" and post messages on behalf of "Anon". It's been that way forever, and it's beginning to be eye-roll inducing in the past few weeks. The left hand isn't agreeing with the right hand. Then again it never has.

More here: http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2394128,00.asp#fbid=TpohpF3tuSy

[F-ck Casey]

I usually go by what the AnonPress publishes on their Facebook page, in relation to what Anon videos/statements are real and whatnot.

EDIT: That whole statement seems really... weird. They wouldn't attack on a holiday? I think that's a red herring, but we'll see come the 10th.

[Derek The Infamous]

But as the statement said, why would Anon use LOIC, when it has flaws? It's like putting a big "arrest me" sign on their back, if their identities are discovered. Sure them being arrested might make them a hero to some people, but it really wouldn't help advance the "movement" at all.

[Dean]

This is the voice of Anonymous, all we really want is Battletoads for the Wii. I ACCIDENTALLY A WHOLE MARBLECAKE LOLZ

[F-ck Casey]

I don't know, but with their recent declaration of war on NYSE, I really wouldn't doubt if an attack on their website is imminent, even if it's not on the 10th. Just strikes me as odd, holidays don't fucking matter to Anon. It never has. Time will tell, I guess.

I don't really think the whole Occupy movement really NEEDS the help of Anon, they're starting to get noticed a lot more since they aren't leaving anytime soon, the cops making real asses out of themselves, and people like Keith Olbermann and (for better or worse) Michael Moore and other celebrities lending their name to the cause. If nothing else, it's definitely interesting. Even more interesting is to see what's going to happen in a few weeks/a month when the temperature starts to drop. A lot of people are thinking that'll disrupt it. I don't really think so.

[El Muerto]

When it gets colder, the kids will go home to play WoW again and say they're taking a break from protesting to establish their further plans.

[Blackee Dammet]

I don't know, but with their recent declaration of war on NYSE, I really wouldn't doubt if an attack on their website is imminent, even if it's not on the 10th. Just strikes me as odd, holidays don't fucking matter to Anon. It never has. Time will tell, I guess.

I don't really think the whole Occupy movement really NEEDS the help of Anon, they're starting to get noticed a lot more since they aren't leaving anytime soon, the cops making real asses out of themselves, and people like Keith Olbermann and (for better or worse) Michael Moore and other celebrities lending their name to the cause. If nothing else, it's definitely interesting. Even more interesting is to see what's going to happen in a few weeks/a month when the temperature starts to drop. A lot of people are thinking that'll disrupt it. I don't really think so.

"Anon". Doesn't. Exist. Not in the way you and for whatever reason everyone else keep referring to it, anyway. Example;

Everyone that isn't Casey, make a new LPA account. Then post in this thread saying "Anon thinks your a douchebag, Casey. We've expelled you from The Plan". Congratulations, "Anon" has expelled you. That's exactly the same thing as "Anon" doing literally anything else.

And that's why this "new Anon" attack doesn't gel with old "Anon" attacks. Because this Anon, last Anon, the Anon that made Jessi Slaughter cry, the Anon that posted Nikki Catsourous pictures everywhere aren't internet superheros. It's a group of people that don't identify themselves. And are therefore an "anonymous" group of people.

tl;dr derp derp duuuuuuur

[Timothy]

No, I'm pretty sure it's a leftist terror cell.

[Derek The Infamous]

I can't help but wonder how the internet would be if 4Chan never existed. Hmmm...

[F-ck Casey]

Derek was right, the attack on the 10th to NYSE was indeed fake, apparently. The plan (Operation Greenout) is now apparently Anon doing "something" to banks like Bank of America, CitiBank, Chase Morgan, because they facilitated the media blackout of Occupy Wall Street, or something, on the 15th, I believe? I'm not sure on the date, can't remember it off hand.

In other news, and also related to what you said about your local chapter: Mine (#occupynashville) started their occupation of Legislative Plaza a few hours ago. I plan on going down there on my next day off and handing out lunches, or something. Anything.

[Jordan]

I can't help but wonder how the internet would be if 4Chan never existed. Hmmm...
Probably the same, seeing as other chans and anonymous image boards exist. Not exactly sure, but I think 2ch (Japanese anon board) gets more hits than 4chan.

[SuperDude526]

Interesting little op-ed by the New York Times (too lazy to copy the text into the thread, sorry): http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/09/opinion/sunday/protesters-against-wall-street.html

Followed by an equally intriguing interpretation of the differences between them and the Tea Party: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/09/opinion/sunday/occupy-wall-street-and-the-tea-party.html

[Derek The Infamous]

Interesting little op-ed by the New York Times (too lazy to copy the text into the thread, sorry): http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/09/opinion/sunday/protesters-against-wall-street.html

Followed by an equally intriguing interpretation of the differences between them and the Tea Party: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/09/opinion/sunday/occupy-wall-street-and-the-tea-party.html

I wish the protesters would've made their message as clear as the NYT just did in their op-ed. Then people wouldn't have been as quick to mock this movement. It really was badly organized, and it's a shame because I really do agree that we are the "generation of lost opportunity". We've had our futures robbed from us in many ways, and it's a shame as this country used to be the place you'd go to if you WANTED to succeed. It was what was popularly referred to as "The American Dream". Now you move here, and are greeted by a broken economy, no jobs, and uncertain times that jeopardize the future of this country as a whole. This is not the America I grew up with, and I do certainly blame wall street/and these lenders as the reason the country took a dive. They sold our country to the highest bidder and now we're paying for it.

So for the record, I would've supported this movement if they had made the same level of sense that the NYT article did. Protests are a good idea, when done right.

[Blackee Dammet]

For what it's worth, nobodys saying protesting as a whole is stupid. Just that the schmucks Caseys flying the freak flag for happened to be some of the most hilarious group of oblivious fuckwits ever to try to leech credit from anything. The Wall Street protests were planned way before "Anonymous" courageously decided to join the struggle and turn it into the jerkiest of circles.

On the other hand, I genuinely think a lot of these op-eds are about trying to give the protests an identity, not helping it voice it's real one. For as everyone wants to say it's way, way different from the Tea party rallies, you have to recognize that even before these past couple of weeks they've been getting way more media attention then they were acknowledging. I can only assume "Social revolutionaries sparked by oppression and trying to be ignored by the media" just had a better ring to it than "Well, Fox did these a while back so... payback fuckers..."

[Dean]

Probably the same, seeing as other chans and anonymous image boards exist. Not exactly sure, but I think 2ch (Japanese anon board) gets more hits than 4chan.
Probably, although the one time I've actually been on 2chan in particular it was pretty different to 4chan. As in, it was obviously the same kind of site but the discussion seemed a lot politer with less people trolling and being dicks to each other.

[Benjamin]

http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-pn-cain-occupy-wall-street-20111009,0,972806.story


Republican presidential contender Herman Cain amplified his criticism Sunday of the growing Occupy Wall Street movement, calling the protesters “jealous’ Americans who "play the victim card” and want to “take somebody else’s” Cadillac.


“I don’t have facts to back this up, but I happen to believe that these demonstrations are planned and orchestrated to distract from the failed policies of the Obama administration. Don’t blame Wall Street, don’t blame the big banks, if you don’t have a job and you’re not rich, blame yourself! It is not someone’s fault if they succeeded.”

#Idonthavefactstobackthisup, but I think Herman Cain hired Obama in 2008 to become president so that he could implement policies that would fail which then would try to distract America from the Occupy Wall Street protests so that no one would take away his cadillac. Oh, and he also bathes in pizza grease every day :kappa:.

[Dean]

Hoo boy

I honestly don't know where to start.

[SuperDude526]

Shoot, hope that one gets picked up by NYT and CNN.

[Timothy]

Yeah, that's it: People just aren't trying hard enough. I'm sure the fact that there is only one job for every five potential workers has nothing to do with it.

LOL POOR PEOPLE, AMIRITE?!

[Benjamin]

Shoot, hope that one gets picked up by NYT and CNN.

It was picked up by Jon Stewart, which is the only thing that matters http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/thu-october-6-2011/indecision-2012---rising-cain

[travz21]

Herman Cain is one of the worst. He was Chairman of the Federal Reserve Bank of Kansas City and he flip flops on all of his policies. Not sure how anyone could be less trustworthy. And he just has no idea what he's talking about.

[SuperDude526]

Well, it's official. I've just been banned from my primary forum for trying to convince everyone there that Occupy Wall Street isn't just about a bunch of smelly hippies and spoiled college kids who are surprised their majors took them nowhere.

[Dean]

Well, it's official. I've just been banned from my primary forum for trying to convince everyone there that Occupy Wall Street isn't just about a bunch of smelly hippies and spoiled college kids who are surprised their majors took them nowhere.
Someone who doesn't like you posting on that board clearly orchestrated these protests, so that you'd be banned for arguing over them.

[SuperDude526]

I mean yeah, obviously, get with the picture. :P

[Vriska]

For what it's worth, nobodys saying protesting as a whole is stupid. Just that the schmucks Caseys flying the freak flag for happened to be some of the most hilarious group of oblivious fuckwits ever to try to leech credit from anything. The Wall Street protests were planned way before "Anonymous" courageously decided to join the struggle and turn it into the jerkiest of circles.

On the other hand, I genuinely think a lot of these op-eds are about trying to give the protests an identity, not helping it voice it's real one. For as everyone wants to say it's way, way different from the Tea party rallies, you have to recognize that even before these past couple of weeks they've been getting way more media attention then they were acknowledging. I can only assume "Social revolutionaries sparked by oppression and trying to be ignored by the media" just had a better ring to it than "Well, Fox did these a while back so... payback fuckers..."

I think the whole anarchy thing by the NYT is bogus. These people, as far as I can tell, are mad because the government lets the financial sector HAVE their anarchy at the detriment of everyone else. They want regulation to bring them below the law, not less control period.


Well, it's official. I've just been banned from my primary forum for trying to convince everyone there that Occupy Wall Street isn't just about a bunch of smelly hippies and spoiled college kids who are surprised their majors took them nowhere.

Congramulation!

[travz21]

Well, it's official. I've just been banned from my primary forum for trying to convince everyone there that Occupy Wall Street isn't just about a bunch of smelly hippies and spoiled college kids who are surprised their majors took them nowhere.

I think there's a whole bunch of different people at these protests actually. The mainstream views of the public are finally realizing that big government and corporatism isn't the system we want and it's not helping the country. Most of these people know what they don't want and they can see the problems. As for their solutions, it's still really divided between protesters. A lot of people still don't know how to fix the problem.


I think the whole anarchy thing by the NYT is bogus. These people, as far as I can tell, are mad because the government lets the financial sector HAVE their anarchy at the detriment of everyone else. They want regulation to bring them below the law, not less control period.

You think they aren't regulated as it is? Obviously there's tons and tons of regulations out there. There's just a certain number of big corporations that buy the government in order to form the regulations around their needs. And those are the corporations that are bringing down our government and our economy.

More regulation from the government means less control by the consumer. This isn't what we want.



Edit: Here's a flyer being passed around the protests to help people out. http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/Bankster-Flyer.pdf

[SuperDude526]

Edit: Here's a flyer being passed around the protests to help people out. http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/Bankster-Flyer.pdf

Well, if that's the flyer they're passing out over there, I may have this protest all wrong.

[Derek The Infamous]

I understand wanting to laugh at the foolishness of some posts in this thread, and how tempting it is to ridicule some of them, but lets be kinda conscious about hiding backhanded insults towards people in replies. I've seen a few posts by people in here that are in response to someone else, but sneak a jab in at a member for no apparent reason. Unless you're responding to something the person themselves said, there's no reason to attack their views after the fact in another post.

[SuperDude526]

If that was directed at me, sorry, although I was serious in my last post. I think it's complete foolishness to count on a publicly-managed currency.

[Derek The Infamous]

Nah, it was actually in response to a post that was a few posts back. No worries.

[Timothy]

http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/309759_10150354293713205_190726258204_8245932_1092 925225_n.jpg

Okay, I take back saying that they don't have a clear message.

[El Muerto]

Hahahaah

[Dean]

I think there's a whole bunch of different people at these protests actually. The mainstream views of the public are finally realizing that big government and corporatism isn't the system we want and it's not helping the country. Most of these people know what they don't want and they can see the problems. As for their solutions, it's still really divided between protesters. A lot of people still don't know how to fix the problem.
I can agree with that, except I'm still not sure whether it's you or me who has the definition of corporatism wrong

I mean, I thought corporatism was when you actually emphasise the role corporations play in the economy, and regulate them less. In which case corporatism is more small government. I stand to be corrected though.

[travz21]

Corporatism: http://www.libertarianfaq.org/index.php?title=What_is_corporatism%3F
Corporatism, as practiced by many modern day democracies, is a set of economic and political policies whereby the government confers a great deal of laws and regulations that benefit businesses, and in particular large corporations that are able to lobby government officials, often times at the expense of individual rights and liberties, and undermining free market capitalism ideals.

While "pure corporatism" would entail corporate bodies completely co-opting a government, directly issuing rules and regulations, and directly controlling law enforcement and similar agencies, it is understood that this scenario never happens outside of Hollywood, and so when Libertarians discuss corporatism they are in fact talking about corporations wielding too much influence over government to everyone's detriment except the corporations' short-term interests to satisfy stock holders.


Examples of Corporatist policies include:

"Corporate welfare", whereby the government confers tax breaks and other benefits for certain corporations or industries and not others.

Government bailouts of "too big to fail" companies with loans and grants. This policy in effect privatizes profits, and socializes losses. In addition this creates scenarios where large corporations do not have to fear the effects of free market capitalism punishing them for bad decisions and reckless policies that would otherwise force them to go out of business or severely curtail their operations.

Unfair copyright laws and corporate lobbying to continually extend copyright expiration dates.

Unfair patent laws which give rise to "patent troll" companies whose only means of existence is to sue individuals and companies for licensing on patents that they have bought and hold, but have no interest in developing themselves, thus stifling innovation.

Capitalism is smaller government. http://www.libertarianfaq.org/index.php?title=Isn%27t_capitalism_a_system_for_th e_rich_to_exploit_the_poor%3F
The word capitalism is used with two very different meanings. The socialists use the term to refer to a system where a group of capitalists who are understood to have accumulated their capital (land, labour and produced capital goods) by some sort of coercion can now dictate the terms by which other people can lend this capital to produce necessary consumer goods.

The crucial points in this use of the term are the understanding of the capitalists as a closed group and the use of unjust means to accumulate capital. Both are incompatible with libertarian ideas.

Capitalism as libertarians understand the term refers to a system where everybody has full control over his own capital, and since labour is capital everybody does own capital. Therefore capitalism refers to a system where everybody is a capitalist, which is far from being a closed group.

Also since everybody has full control over his capital, transfer of capital can only occur due to mutual agreement without coercion. This will be beneficiary for both partys since otherwise they would not have agreed in the first place. This is the polar opposite of exploitation. The only possibility for people to become rich in this system of capitalism is by saving. That is by restraining from consuming now in order to use this capital more efficiently later. And since there cannot be any justification for someone who did not restrain from consumption to profit from someone else who did restrain from consumption, the rich who did save capital has and should have all rights to use his accumulated capital as he sees fit. Anything else would be exploitation.

This being said, in reality capital is in fact regularly accumulated by governmental coercion and poor people are regularly prevented from making use of their capital (labour) by governmental regulations, and thereby kept in poverty and dependance. But this is statism rather than capitalism. So while statism is in fact a system for the rich to exploit the poor, capitalism is quite to the contrary a system to offer poor people a way to become rich themselves.

"If capitalism is so beneficial according to libertarians, why does it have such a bad reputation?" http://www.libertarianfaq.org/index.php?title=If_capitalism_is_so_beneficial_acc ording_to_libertarians%2C_why_does_it_have_such_a_ bad_reputation%3F

In large part, true free market capitalism does not exist in most modern nation states. Most states that employ some form of democracy tend to blend together a mixture of Socialism, Corporatism, Crony Capitalism, and Statism. When their policies fail and result in an economic downturn, they claim instead that they were following the policies of free market capitalism and thereby deflect the blame from their true policies, which they are then free to promote again as a "solution" to the current economic and political problems.
A good example of this is in the recent Michael Moore documentary "Capitalism: A Love Story" where Mr. Moore mislabels Corporatism as Capitalism and then offers Socialism as a solution.


There's too many ism's that start with C. I used to get them mixed up a lot.

[ThaHandyman]

A serious question Travz, in what sect does capitalism have a bad reputation?

[travz21]

It's hard to say. I've heard individuals try to rip apart capitalism from pretty much any kind of group you can think of except for people well-versed in Austrian Economics. 100% of them are behind it. Even a decent amount of Libertarians don't seem to like it.

I still think the majority of people associate it with communism unknowingly. And the other people who don't can't wrap their government-conditioned mind around the idea of capitalism.

[Benjamin]

It now appears that the movement has officially been initiated all around the world (or at least now the media is recognizing it).

http://www.cnn.com/2011/10/15/world/occupy-goes-global/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

[ThaHandyman]

It's hard to say. I've heard individuals try to rip apart capitalism from pretty much any kind of group you can think of except for people well-versed in Austrian Economics. 100% of them are behind it. Even a decent amount of Libertarians don't seem to like it.

I still think the majority of people associate it with communism unknowingly. And the other people who don't can't wrap their government-conditioned mind around the idea of capitalism.

Oh, I guess its just my upbringing and common sense, but I always saw capitalism and communism as opposites. Capitalism is the only thing that makes sense to me really.

BTW I'll get to ur post in the Obama thread when I'm back to my dorm, I don't have a computer now.

[SuperDude526]

It's a spectrum, really. I for one am a fan of social democracy: it's capitalism with a nice, wide safety net but only as needed.

[travz21]

That's a very misguided description of what we have.

[SuperDude526]

I never said it was. I would love it if we did. What I described more closely describes the Netherlands and a buncha Baltic/Dutch states.

[Pidgeon]

I wish I could of gone to occupy denver. Though it got violent and arrests were made and I didn't want to lose my new job (the one that took 6 months to get.)

[Pidgeon]

http://www.cnn.com/2011/10/26/us/occupy-wall-steet/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

What do you guys think. I believe they should be left alone

[Geki]

http://www.cnn.com/2011/10/26/us/occupy-wall-steet/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

What do you guys think. I believe they should be left alone

That's the US government for ya.

[Jordan]

Police on fuckin' horses violently stopped the Occupy Melbourne thing. Mayor went on to say it was justified because the protestors had bricks, fuel, knives, typical camping gear etc.

[SuperDude526]

Oh, I saw that yesterday and thought it was Oakland, Michigan. Anyway, shit is going to get real ugly from here.

[lpboarder]

http://www.cnn.com/2011/10/26/us/occupy-wall-steet/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

What do you guys think. I believe they should be left alone

If they are armed and are leaving a disgusting mess on public property, then no, they should not be left alone. Protesting against "the man" is one thing but to take a crap in a public park is disrespectful at the very least. Let the people who's job it is to clean up those places do their damn job and then get back to protesting. And, dont hurl paint and bricks or bottles at the police because then you just ask for the police to act.

[F-ck Casey]

No matter what they were doing to justify being "kicked out" of a public space, using tear gas and flash bangs is absolutely the wrong way to go about it. I know Jon Stewart isn't exactly CNN or Fox News, but the footage he showed last night looked like a video from Iraq or something. It's terrifying and the definition of excessive force. It's quite disgusting and I don't know how you can justify that type of behavior.

In my neck of the woods, the Nashville PD has given the protesters here until 8PM to leave or face being arrested. No one plans to leave, as far as I'm aware, and there will be a new group of protesters coming down to protest the arrests. Shit is getting real.

[travz21]

They shot someone point blank in the face with rubber bullets yesterday, fracturing his skill. The pics were brutal. The dude was mid to late 20's and served in Iraq. I don't want to get into how horrible a government monopoly on power is (the police), because it would turn into a whole nother thread. But these protesters will be victims of illegal police brutality. The majority of officers that are involved in such acts just get a few weeks paid vacation instead of real consequences. If things get really hairy, I'm sure stuff like this will be happening every day.

[F-ck Casey]

Then again, hey, it's the police in California. It's business as usual for them. I'm surprised it hasn't gotten that violent in New York, honestly.

[ThaHandyman]

I find a problem with the fact that I still don't know what they're protesting, not being sarcastic or whatever. I've watched some videos, but seriously, what is the point.

[travz21]

It started out as a protest against corporatism basically. Now it's mostly people just going out there protesting against things they have no knowledge of. I've seen many videos of people protesting against what they think is capitalism (but in reality is socialism and corporatism), and are fighting for socialism. So at the same time they are fighting for and against socialism. I've seen other videos of people wanting a redistribution of wealth. It's just a total mess now. But at least people are out there taking a stand for what they think they believe in, even if they don't know the specifics.

These are a couple good videos. They are non-confrontational ways of trying to get people to really think about their views.

EDMwVPtvp94

5fyP_wKRIAg

[Dean]

You're still equating socialism with corporatism and you're still using "socialism" as a synonym for "not 100% capitalism". And you think they're misinformed.

I give up.

[Benjamin]

Some people at these protests are in fact idiots. However, there are plenty of things that they are advocating that I fully agree with. Taxing the rich more and dealing with corporate greed being a few examples.

It'll be interesting to see "what happens now." In order for this to be sustainable, it will have to keep growing until downtown areas of cities are literally occupied. Or something.

[F-ck Casey]

They have a plan to form a type of Congress, with delegates and representives and whatnot from each occupied city.

[travz21]

You're still equating socialism with corporatism and you're still using "socialism" as a synonym for "not 100% capitalism". And you think they're misinformed.

I give up.

You can simultaneously have corporatism and socialism.

When you take money from one group to pay for another group, that's socialism. When you have public schooling, public parks, public healthcare, etc, those things are socialized. Everyone is forced to pay for those things, even if they don't use them, to provide for other people.

And when corporations buy the government, that's corporatism. Both of these things can coexist. And they do in the US.

We're not full-blown socialist, but there's a ton of it going on. Same with corporatism.

[Benjamin]

Well, with this big snowstorm heading for the Northeast, it will be interesting to see what will happen. Though, with that said, it's the cold rather than the snow that may eventually get to them.

[Blackee Dammet]

CAPITALIST WEATHER!!!!

[Dean]

If we had free markets the whole world would be like Bora Bora

[ThaHandyman]

It started out as a protest against corporatism basically. Now it's mostly people just going out there protesting against things they have no knowledge of. I've seen many videos of people protesting against what they think is capitalism (but in reality is socialism and corporatism), and are fighting for socialism. So at the same time they are fighting for and against socialism. I've seen other videos of people wanting a redistribution of wealth. It's just a total mess now. But at least people are out there taking a stand for what they think they believe in, even if they don't know the specifics.

These are a couple good videos. They are non-confrontational ways of trying to get people to really think about their views.

EDMwVPtvp94

Why is the hippie dressed like a construction worker? Why are they not occupying their life and working to become part of that 1% instead of standing around aimlessly. Because lets face it, its pretty aimless.

[travz21]

Because his boss is being taxed too much and can't afford to hire new workers.

[Benjamin]

Why is the hippie dressed like a construction worker? Why are they not occupying their life and working to become part of that 1% instead of standing around aimlessly. Because lets face it, its pretty aimless.

Because there are no jobs.


Because his boss is being taxed too much and can't afford to hire new workers.

I don't know if you forgot this, but we're still under the Bush tax cuts.

http://www.toqonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/marginal-tax-rate1.jpg

The top 1% is paying the lowest amount of income taxes since 1931 (with the exception of a four year span from 1988-1992). And there's not a shred of evidence that suggests that lowering them will somehow make more jobs.

[Dean]

Yes, but the constitution. And further, socialism.

[travz21]

40% is still ridiculously high. Factor in other taxes and they're paying close to 50%. Our governmental revenue has nothing to do with our economic well-being. Taxes do nothing for the economy. The government isn't productive. It produces $0 for the economy. So when we pay all this money to the government, it drains our economy.

And there's plenty of evidence if you search for it. I've given plenty of evidence before. Economic sense gives us the evidence needed. When you don't tax people and keep that money in the economy, they'll have more money to do what they want. If business owners want to hire more workers and expand business, they'll have more money to do so. If people want to spend money on goods, they'll have more money to do so. So, the less taxes, the better.

The only reason our economy survived those incredibly high taxes is because the whole world was basically destroyed after WWII and they had to buy everything from us since our factories were left untouched. Now that that isn't the case, these taxes (our government) are eating us alive. Has been for about 40 years. Our economy will continue to swan dive, the federal reserve will continue to print more fake money to fund the government, inflation will eventually cause extreme panic around the globe (causing our dollar to crash), and hyperinflation will occur. It happened to Germany and Zimbabwe in almost the same fashion, only the whole world wasn't relying on their currency like the world is with us. We're in a much more dire situation here.

Here's something I stole from a Facebook group I'm in:

More gov't spending means poverty, less gov't spending means prosperity. This is an economic law that has been empirically tested. On the Y axis is the country's economic growth, and on the X axis is a country's ratio of gov't spending to private spending.
CHART SOURCE: http://www.house.gov/jec/growth/function/function.pdf

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/298130_10150352648674872_367822059871_7832744_8510 06122_n.jpg



Yes, but the constitution. And further, socialism.

Are you even from the US? Either way, I'd appreciate something constructive to the debate. You acting like we don't have socialism and that we aren't disobeying the constitution totally ignores everything going on in our country.

[SuperDude526]

I think I'm going to photograph a little sheet of statistics from the Harper's Report later to post here. It's almost hilarious (would be if it weren't sad) how low corporate taxes have become, especially in contrast to how the average Joe's taxes have gone up.

[travz21]

You mean the photograph Ben already posted? And why is it sad?

[SuperDude526]

No, not that one, I didn't see that, although that's probably the same general numbers.

It's sad because:

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/blogs/taibblog/owss-beef-wall-street-isnt-winning-its-cheating-20111025#ixzz1cfaIS6kO


All weekend I was thinking about this “jealousy” question, and I just kept coming back to all the different ways the game is rigged. People aren't jealous and they don’t want privileges. They just want a level playing field, and they want Wall Street to give up its cheat codes, things like:

FREE MONEY. Ordinary people have to borrow their money at market rates. Lloyd Blankfein and Jamie Dimon get billions of dollars for free, from the Federal Reserve. They borrow at zero and lend the same money back to the government at two or three percent, a valuable public service otherwise known as "standing in the middle and taking a gigantic cut when the government decides to lend money to itself."

Or the banks borrow billions at zero and lend mortgages to us at four percent, or credit cards at twenty or twenty-five percent. This is essentially an official government license to be rich, handed out at the expense of prudent ordinary citizens, who now no longer receive much interest on their CDs or other saved income. It is virtually impossible to not make money in banking when you have unlimited access to free money, especially when the government keeps buying its own cash back from you at market rates.

Your average chimpanzee couldn't fuck up that business plan, which makes it all the more incredible that most of the too-big-to-fail banks are nonetheless still functionally insolvent, and dependent upon bailouts and phony accounting to stay above water. Where do the protesters go to sign up for their interest-free billion-dollar loans?

CREDIT AMNESTY. If you or I miss a $7 payment on a Gap card or, heaven forbid, a mortgage payment, you can forget about the great computer in the sky ever overlooking your mistake. But serial financial fuckups like Citigroup and Bank of America overextended themselves by the hundreds of billions and pumped trillions of dollars of deadly leverage into the system -- and got rewarded with things like the Temporary Liquidity Guarantee Program, an FDIC plan that allowed irresponsible banks to borrow against the government's credit rating.

This is equivalent to a trust fund teenager who trashes six consecutive off-campus apartments and gets rewarded by having Daddy co-sign his next lease. The banks needed programs like TLGP because without them, the market rightly would have started charging more to lend to these idiots. Apparently, though, we can’t trust the free market when it comes to Bank of America, Goldman, Sachs, Citigroup, etc.

In a larger sense, the TBTF banks all have the implicit guarantee of the federal government, so investors know it's relatively safe to lend to them -- which means it's now cheaper for them to borrow money than it is for, say, a responsible regional bank that didn't jack its debt-to-equity levels above 35-1 before the crash and didn't dabble in toxic mortgages. In other words, the TBTF banks got better credit for being less responsible. Click on freecreditscore.com to see if you got the same deal.

STUPIDITY INSURANCE. Defenders of the banks like to talk a lot about how we shouldn't feel sorry for people who've been foreclosed upon, because it's their own fault for borrowing more than they can pay back, buying more house than they can afford, etc. And critics of OWS have assailed protesters for complaining about things like foreclosure by claiming these folks want “something for nothing.”

This is ironic because, as one of the Rolling Stone editors put it last week, “something for nothing is Wall Street’s official policy." In fact, getting bailed out for bad investment decisions has been de rigeur on Wall Street not just since 2008, but for decades.

Time after time, when big banks screw up and make irresponsible bets that blow up in their faces, they've scored bailouts. It doesn't matter whether it was the Mexican currency bailout of 1994 (when the state bailed out speculators who gambled on the peso) or the IMF/World Bank bailout of Russia in 1998 (a bailout of speculators in the "emerging markets") or the Long-Term Capital Management Bailout of the same year (in which the rescue of investors in a harebrained hedge-fund trading scheme was deemed a matter of international urgency by the Federal Reserve), Wall Street has long grown accustomed to getting bailed out for its mistakes.

The 2008 crash, of course, birthed a whole generation of new bailout schemes. Banks placed billions in bets with AIG and should have lost their shirts when the firm went under -- AIG went under, after all, in large part because of all the huge mortgage bets the banks laid with the firm -- but instead got the state to pony up $180 billion or so to rescue the banks from their own bad decisions.

This sort of thing seems to happen every time the banks do something dumb with their money. Just recently, the French and Belgian authorities cooked up a massive bailout of the French bank Dexia, whose biggest trading partners included, surprise, surprise, Goldman, Sachs and Morgan Stanley. Here's how the New York Times explained the bailout:

To limit damage from Dexia’s collapse, the bailout fashioned by the French and Belgian governments may make these banks and other creditors whole — that is, paid in full for potentially tens of billions of euros they are owed. This would enable Dexia’s creditors and trading partners to avoid losses they might otherwise suffer...

When was the last time the government stepped into help you "avoid losses you might otherwise suffer?" But that's the reality we live in. When Joe Homeowner bought too much house, essentially betting that home prices would go up, and losing his bet when they dropped, he was an irresponsible putz who shouldn’t whine about being put on the street.

But when banks bet billions on a firm like AIG that was heavily invested in mortgages, they were making the same bet that Joe Homeowner made, leaving themselves hugely exposed to a sudden drop in home prices. But instead of being asked to "suck it in and cope" when that bet failed, the banks instead went straight to Washington for a bailout -- and got it.

Economic injustice, bitch.

[travz21]

This has nothing to do with the tax topic we were on, but I'm glad you've read it and brought it up here, as this is more important. I agree with almost all of it (hard to not agree with facts), and those are the biggest problems our economy faces right now.

Without me going into anything yet, what do you think we should do to eliminate some of these problems? The article didn't touch on any of that, which is something I'd love to get into.

[SuperDude526]

I don't know if only because I think this is a problem beyond the scope of only one person. Just thought I'd put it out there.

Also I'm sure you do agree with me; the problem of this whole mess we're in right now is that almost everyone sees the same problem being caused for different reasons, all proposing different solutions. Maybe there are a few who see a different problem (i.e. the formerly privileged white trying to get their privilege back) or who don't see one at all (i.e. Wall Street execs), but on the whole I'm sure all of us agree there's a great injustice in this country that needs to be dealt with in some way or another. I think it's big business, you think it's big government, but the problem is still the same.

In other news, decided to lurk at my old forum P/R today. The global moderator of the entire forum has taken to banning people who disagree with him. Glad to know it wasn't my abrasive and disrespectful posting style. :P

[travz21]

It's definitely not one person causing the problem. It's a few leaders (Obama, Bernanke) that are at the core of the problems, but there's many more people responsible for the mess. It's not that we need to deal with these people to make the problems go away, it's that we need to deal with the policies and laws we have so that these types of people won't continue popping up in the future even after/if these people are dealt with.

The reason we have failing mega-corporations with little or no competition is because they pay the government to make regulations to stifle the competition. The only businesses that can afford to operate under these regulations are the mega-corps, who make these regulations for themselves, knowing the smaller companies can't afford it. Then, even when these corporations go bankrupt, instead of better businesses taking their place in the market, the government gives them the taxpayers' money to bail them out, knowing the company will give them a chunk of it in the future. Both parties profit from stealing from society by socializing the costs through our taxes. This isn't to say that all mega-corporations are corrupt or that all of government is corrupt, but this is the problem. They control our economy, along with the federal reserve. And when all they want is money, it only benefits them.

The problem with our currency and deficit woes is that we're spending too much, financed by money being created out of thin air by the federal reserve. This, along with central banking, is what's going to destroy our economy. They have a monopoly on our currency, and they can decide what happens with it. When they make wrong choices, like they are now, nobody can do anything about it. Our dollar's value will continue to spiral, also destroying our credit rating, meaning that nobody will lend us money anymore. Once we can't borrow anymore, all of our debt will have to be liquidated immediately unless we can figure out a way to pay everything off, which is impossible. This is all before hyperinflation sets in and our dollar becomes worthless.

Most people don't realize how close this is to actually happening. The same people (Austrian economists) who have been right about all our economic problems since they came into existence, have said it might only be a few years before this happens at the rate we're going. The more we ignore the fact that we're worse than bankrupt, the exponentially worse our problems are going to be when we hit rock bottom.


And if you enjoy debating this kind of stuff, I suggest looking at this Facebook group: https://www.facebook.com/pages/I-bet-Ludwig-von-Mises-can-get-more-fans-than-John-Maynard-Keynes/367822059871

The moderators are very intelligent, active, respectful, and don't ban people who disagree with them. Lots of good info and debates in that group.

[SuperDude526]

I wasn't saying one person is to blame, I said it was up to more than one person to come up with a solution.

And there's another point of contention actually; you identify Obama as one of the more deserving of blame. For my own part, I see his inability to move past a deadlocked Congress as being his fault, but not the reason for our current problems, merely as a reason the solution to that problem is delayed.

I'm in no mood to debate with you (I also happen to be at my girlfriends' parents' place) so I'll simply say I disagree.

We actually should worry more about deflation.

[travz21]

6gLDzDklTRU

[F-ck Casey]

lol mayor bloomberg.

thank you, sir. you might have just revitalized a movement that was, in all honesty, just floating along. especially with the discovery that mayors/cities around the nation are working with the federal government to stamp out these occupations.

[Jason]

Thought you all might find this interesting. My girlfriend and I drove past the Occupy Fort Worth "movement" the other night after dinner. It was comprised of like 7 dudes sitting in lawnchairs with cheesy signs outside a bank downtown. We thought it was hilarious! It would appear that North Texans on this side of the Metroplex don't have much passion for the protests. I haven't been over to Dallas, but from what I understand there is a bit more enthusiasm over there.

[travz21]

Anonymous - Operation Blackout (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=czY-dZQsd-k&feature=youtu.be)

[Derek The Infamous]

PORTLAND:
http://i.huffpost.com/gen/411271/LIZ-NICHOLS-OCCUPY-PORTLAND-PEPPER-SPRAY.jpg

SEATTLE:
http://i.huffpost.com/gen/406864/PEPPER-SPRAY-DORLI-RAINEY.jpg

In what society, or country...is this acceptable? Especially the older woman. Both images are pepper spray.

[Rocky]

There are either way too many corrupt officers in this country, or they are being told to do shit like this for some reason. It's too fucked up and surreal.

[Agent O]

*shakes head* This is absolutely disgusting.

[travz21]

In what society, or country...is this acceptable? Especially the older woman. Both images are pepper spray.

It happens in countries with governments that have a monopoly on power. Police can act above the law with no consequences because there aren't any other options for the people. It's a monopoly. Things will only get worse.

[Tom]

I support the idea that was originally formed, but the bandwagon tumblr delinquents that are all 'hurr durr occupy wurld, we are anonimoose, lejun n shit' need to all burn in a fire of grow the fuck up and stop being such little bitches.

For me personally when we hit financial crises in the UK and banks had to be bailed out, I personally had to pay higher taxes and such, because I'm a law abiding citizen, what narked by boat was when after several months of rough water, you find the very banks that needed bailing out, actually have just paid a bunch of senior staff MILLIONS in year bonuses. I'm glad people protest stuff like this, because it feels like I have been ripped off by my government and system and that essentially I just gave a very well off rich person, more money due to lies.

The problem I face is when people claim to be in this 'Anonymous' Group that in essence has no real name and such, and yet post things such as ''GUIS, ALL CHANGE UR PIC ON FACEBOOK TO V MASK, LEJUN'' surely this sounds familiar like Fight club's rule 1 and 2, by changing your picture and such, you've given a name to the anonymity, the very essence of said 'anonymous' group, surely if you considered yourself a 'member', you wouldn't tell anyone because then you wouldn't be a member. Makes me angry just thinking about people who do these things.

My last thought on this however is: If you want to protest something, that's fine, everyone has a right to protest and say what s/he believes in. Protest about something you actually believe in and get behind, make sure you know the law and such in your country about protesting. (GL if you're in China, lawlz.)
However jumping in on a cause because you read it on your tumblr, reddit or twitter feed and say to yourself "fuk je, fight da man n power, government is shit guis" and jump aboard because lots of people you know have. Then I'd ask you to kindly remove your own reproductive organs so that the stupidity stops and dies when you die.

[travz21]

The government works together with big corporations and banks to both profit off the public. They keep taking our money, well, because we have to give it to them. They know this, and they exploit us. When our tax money pays for their income and their mistakes, and we are legally forced to give them our money, the problem is blatant.

And to make things worse, the Federal Reserve can simply print money out if they can't tax enough of it, giving the rich more money, while inflating the dollar and decreasing everyone else's worth. The amount of money that was printed off in the last few years is astounding. When all of it actually hits the market, we're in major trouble.


"As a result of this audit, we now know that the Federal Reserve provided more than $16 trillion in total financial assistance to some of the largest financial institutions and corporations in the United States and throughout the world," said Sanders. "This is a clear case of socialism for the rich and rugged, you're-on-your-own individualism for everyone else."

The Fed Audit (http://sanders.senate.gov/newsroom/news/?id=9e2a4ea8-6e73-4be2-a753-62060dcbb3c3)

The Occupy movement started out as a Federal Reserve protest and the movement was promoting capitalism. What it has turned into now is pathetic and is embarrassing.


Edit:

THE Most Important Chart of the CENTURY (http://www.swarmusa.com/vb4/content.php/282-THE-Most-Important-Chart-of-the-CENTURY)

Very informative if you can get through all of it.