Halliburton and the US Military.

[CallofReach141]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chXjCtkymRQ&feature=related

This is seriously very sad. :(

[Blackee Dammet]

Yeah, Halliburton is legitimately corrupt. Almost all the troops are kept housed in shit conditions and neglected when they get back. I assume this is why the Iraq war and a good chunk of Afghanistan has been outsourced to mercenaries.

[CallofReach141]

Yeah, Halliburton is legitimately corrupt. Almost all the troops are kept housed in shit conditions and neglected when they get back. I assume this is why the Iraq war and a good chunk of Afghanistan has been outsourced to mercenaries.

Yeah, I read an article written by a US Marine in which he stated that Halliburton officials were travelling in nearly bomb-proof vehicles when the Marine Corps didn't even have access to such at the time. Talking about misplaced priorities.

[sotrix]

You deserve what you vote for.

[Gloomy Mushroom]

You deserve what you vote for.

And if you didn't vote, don't whinge. :P

not you sotrix

[Blackee Dammet]

You deserve what you vote for.

Elaborate on that.

[sotrix]

The nation deserves the leaders it elects?

And if you sign away your right to be treated as a human being, don't expect to be treated as a human being.

[Blackee Dammet]

Now did you actually understand this video or are you doing a "Dur hur VIETNAM; I don't know what's going on but this sounds about right" type argument?

[travz21]

Fuck. This makes me sick. Another reason to elect Ron Paul.

[BlackedOut]

Halliburton...Heil Burton....Hell Burton....Burn In Hell.....Burton Halli.....

[Gloomy Mushroom]

Now did you actually understand this video or are you doing a "Dur hur VIETNAM; I don't know what's going on but this sounds about right" type argument?

Are you patronising me or are you being a dick again for no reason?

You get what you voted for, as in, you vote for this person, and this is how the person carries on. So the people who voted them into office are getting what and who they voted for.

[CallofReach141]

:shit:

[sotrix]

Now did you actually understand this video or are you doing a "Dur hur VIETNAM; I don't know what's going on but this sounds about right" type argument?

I'm not dur hur anything. I saw the film when it came out a few years ago. I'm not as outraged and shocked as you are.

Just because I'm not pointlessly ranting about how a mega-corporation is heartless and evil doesn't mean I support it.

[Benjamin]

Fuck. This makes me sick. Another reason to elect Ron Paul.

What? No.

[travz21]

"What? No" Why?

[Benjamin]

I think this is a debate for another thread.

[sotrix]

This is the exact reason to NOT vote for Ron Paul. Or are you not aware of his positions? You think he will barge into Halliburton like the Sheriff?

Paul wants to make sure all corporations can do whatever the hell they want.

[Todd]

Exactly. Paul wants to get rid of regulations and let businesses do whatever the hell they please in the name of the free market. It's amazing how so many people yell out Ron Paul's name as if he's going to solve these problems when they have no idea what he actually stands for.

If there's anyone in Congress who would actually place strict regulations on businesses to prevent this shit, its Bernie Sanders.

[travz21]

Well, there wouldn't be people over there at all if Ron Paul was elected.

He'd also abolish income tax which would eliminate a lot of unnecessary funding to dick bag companies like this. It would lead to more efficient spending of the governments money.


Getting rid of dirty businesses will never happen.

[CallofReach141]

Well, there wouldn't be people over there at all if Ron Paul was elected.

He'd also abolish income tax which would eliminate a lot of unnecessary funding to dick bag companies like this. It would lead to more efficient spending of the governments money.


Getting rid of dirty businesses will never happen.

He also wants to abolish the Federal reserve, which I think is good.

[Todd]

Well, there wouldn't be people over there at all if Ron Paul was elected.

He'd also abolish income tax which would eliminate a lot of unnecessary funding to dick bag companies like this. It would lead to more efficient spending of the governments money.


Getting rid of dirty businesses will never happen.
Do you like having roads to drive on? Do you like having paramedics to rush you to the hospital if you get sick and firefighters to help you if you have a fire in your house? Schools to send your children to, hurricane, tornado and tsunami warning systems to warn you of an impending natural disaster? Police to keep criminals off the street?

If you answered yes to any of those questions, then we need income taxes. If you answered no, try moving to an anarchy. I hear Somalia is nice this time of year, just watch out for the pirates and Al Qaeda.

[travz21]

You make it sounds like the government will have no money if there isn't income tax.

[Louis]

You make it sounds like the government will have no money if there isn't income tax.

Take into consideration the size of our debt, how much the government actually makes off income tax (i.e. how much it would lose if we didn't pay an income tax), and as Todd said, what the government actually does with our income tax...and you will find that the government will not be able to do very much without it.

An income tax is necessary, whether you like it or not. People need to stop bitching about how the government is taking their money for whatever. There is a reason we have a lot of the things we have. So many people don't even think, "Oh, we have to PAY for these services?" Well of course you fucking do. Nothing is free.

EDIT: Apologies in advance, I mean no offense with what I say, I'm just kinda pissed about what I've read in this thread so far.

[sotrix]

Because the politicians are paid off, the national debate centers around cutting home heating oil subsidies for the poor instead of corporate welfare, especially in the defense department. Healthcare and education are not what's really bankrupting the country.

Are you jealous of U.S. soldiers getting to shower in the wild, exotic, poisonous Iraqi waters? Do you toss and turn at night because the local water treatment plant is regulated by the state and isn't allowed to flourish in an open, free market? Socialism! Well fear no more, because there's finally a man who will bring the Wild West of the Iraq war into your bathrooms. Vote for Ron Paul and you'll get to shower in poisonous water every morning! Your dream of raising your children in a world where Wall Street executives decide whether they live or die will finally come true! I'm the Constitution and I approve this message.

[Todd]

Where do you propose the government gets its money from with no income taxes? Corporate taxes? Guess what, Ron Paul wants to get rid of those too. He wants no taxes, a nonexistent government and a country where its every man for themselves.

[travz21]

Lol.

[Louis]

Lol.

Unless you have something substantial to contribute to this thread, avoid making these posts. Thanks.

[Benjamin]

Lol.

I find it hard to believe that you don't realize how much Todd and Louis owned you.

[Derek The Infamous]

The registered sex offender (aka disgusting pedophile) that lives down my street is a Ron Paul supporter. Just thought I'd add that to this thread. Carry on.

[Benjamin]

For what it's worth, his head is in the right place on a social standpoint. He even expressed that he was ok if states decided to legalize Heroin at a Republican debate.

But I completely disagree with his views on how the government should work.

[travz21]

It's just hard to debate with people when they make every stance from a politician an extreme viewpoint instead of a rational one. That's like saying someone who supports abortion hates babies and will run the country in some evil way just because of that one belief. Therefore lol was the only response I could think of at the time.



Take into consideration the size of our debt, how much the government actually makes off income tax (i.e. how much it would lose if we didn't pay an income tax), and as Todd said, what the government actually does with our income tax...and you will find that the government will not be able to do very much without it.

So since our government is in debt, they should just keep milking our already terrible wages in order to make up their debt? Should we be taxed even more because they are so much in debt? And if that happens, all businesses will just keep raising their prices so their bottomline doesn't drop, causing us to pay more money while our wages are shrinking due to more taxes. So we'll just have to end up paying more money with our smaller wallets. Where does it end? Once our economy totally crashes and we're forced to reform from nothing?

[Benjamin]

Well, depressions are a bitch. How do you suppose we get out of this debt if we don't pay taxes?

I would also argue that you think the opposing philosophy is "extreme." You make it sound like if we keep paying taxes, we're all going to be homeless or what have you. Sure, maybe you won't be able to buy that new car you wanted, but we can all still live comfortably.

Please, enlighten us on how we get rid of the debt with no income tax.

[Louis]

Please, enlighten us on how we get rid of the debt with no income tax.

Exactly what I would ask.

There are some things we have to consider here. The first is that, like Todd, Dumbledore (Ben?) and I have said, there is no way to provide for the services we need, let alone reduce our debt, without paying an income tax. It is absolutely necessary, and while it is preferred that we are taxed less, no tax at all is the most threatening thing to the stability of our country and the services it provides.

Secondly, the debt was caused in major part by *how* the Bush administration spent money and what it spent money on. I don't know the details 100%, but my assumption is that so much money went to the military, and of course, there was close to zero-payoff in this venture. Countries lose money in "wars," so obviously we have a problem here in regards to how much money the government has.

Third of all, if you're concerned about people losing their money, then they should be careful about spending it. The economic recession we experienced, and its effects that we are still dealing with, was caused in major part by the fact that people were spending money they didn't have. This inevitably leads to things like a recession, and recessions continue when people become unwilling to spend *some* money to keep the economy going. In other words, people just don't know when and how to spend money and how much of it to spend where. It was also because the banks were stupid, and because huge-ass corporations, which most Republicans and people like Ron Paul support, were stupider. It almost had nothing to do with the income tax. The tax would only ever become a burden if people began to lose their money elsewhere, and that's something that can be prevented with wise decision-making.

[Timothy]

Keynesian economics is fine. Federal spending it out of control, no doubt, but I'm not convinced that using the U.S. as a guinea pig for Austrian-School theories is the answer.

[travz21]

The problem is that citizens are in debt and the government is in debt. For our economy to get better, we the people have to start making more money, which starts with not giving back like 30% of our income to Uncle Sam. For our government to get out of debt, they have to tax us more or find other unknown ways to accumulate money. Both aren't good scenarios, but I'd rather people spend their own money how they like than have just as irresponsible people in the government spending our money in useless fashion. That's the problem. People are, including our government, spending money inefficiently. I have absolutely no gripe about paying taxes if the fucking government was spending it on necessities. But when you see all the money we've wasted in the last 10 years or so (what are we, like 14 trillion in debt?), you have to wonder why we're even paying taxes to these idiots.

[Benjamin]

The problem is that citizens are in debt and the government is in debt. For our economy to get better, we the people have to start making more money, which starts with not giving back like 30% of our income to Uncle Sam. For our government to get out of debt, they have to tax us more or find other unknown ways to accumulate money. Both aren't good scenarios, but I'd rather people spend their own money how they like than have just as irresponsible people in the government spending our money in useless fashion. That's the problem. People are, including our government, spending money inefficiently. I have absolutely no gripe about paying taxes if the fucking government was spending it on necessities. But when you see all the money we've wasted in the last 10 years or so (what are we, like 14 trillion in debt?), you have to wonder why we're even paying taxes to these idiots.

You have to have a little more faith in the government then. Remember that crackhead Bush who was in office for 8 of those 10 years that you described? Yeah, he's gone now.

You, along with a lot of America, simply have to give Obama more time.

[Mark]

You have to have a little more faith in the government then. Remember that crackhead Bush who was in office for 8 of those 10 years that you described? Yeah, he's gone now.

You, along with a lot of America, simply have to give Obama more time.

Exactly. The US' gross federal debt as a percentage of GDP has steadily risen since GWB entered office. Obama inherited a huge debt when he took office, and the global recession did not help things one bit. Obama isn't exactly spending the U.S. into the ground.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b8/US_Federal_Debt_as_Percent_of_GDP_by_President.jpg/800px-US_Federal_Debt_as_Percent_of_GDP_by_President.jpg

[F-ck Casey]

The registered sex offender (aka disgusting pedophile) that lives down my street is a Ron Paul supporter. Just thought I'd add that to this thread. Carry on.

Way to fuckin' generalize Derek, holy shit. How do you get away with saying something like that, but if I said it, I'd get lynched one way or another.

Yeah, I'm a Ron Paul supporter. Sue me.

[Derek The Infamous]

Way to fuckin' generalize Derek, holy shit. How do you get away with saying something like that, but if I said it, I'd get lynched one way or another.

Yeah, I'm a Ron Paul supporter. Sue me.
Your signature is going to give me an epileptic seizure.

[F-ck Casey]

I can't think of anything witty to say about your signature.

[Gloomy Mushroom]

Wow here I am thinking about how much of a douche our Prime Minister is for cutting funding from the military (approx 30 million) from this year's budget.



Well, depressions are a bitch. How do you suppose we get out of this debt if we don't pay taxes?

I would also argue that you think the opposing philosophy is "extreme." You make it sound like if we keep paying taxes, we're all going to be homeless or what have you. Sure, maybe you won't be able to buy that new car you wanted, but we can all still live comfortably.

Please, enlighten us on how we get rid of the debt with no income tax.

Introduce a GST (Goods and Services Tax) like Howard did to us? Tax the crap out of rich people and lessen the tax grip on the middle/lower working classes?

[Harlz]

We still have a income tax, just to clarify...

[Gloomy Mushroom]

We still have a income tax, just to clarify...

And that too. How else does government make their revenue? A world without taxes means you cannot have roads, paramedics, etc. As much as the idea sounds nice to be not taxed, it's not how it works. You give something to the government so the government can give something back to the people who pay the taxes.

[Timothy]

Some of you guys are being silly. Private industry could take over every service the government currently provides. Now, that's not a scenario I support (it's actually kind of disconcerting), but the notion that the world as we know it would come crashing to a halt without taxes is a little ridiculous.

[Louis]

Some of you guys are being silly. Private industry could take over every service the government currently provides. Now, that's not a scenario I support (it's actually kind of disconcerting), but the notion that the world as we know it would come crashing to a halt without taxes is a little ridiculous.

Care to explain what would actually happen? I'm just curious.

[Todd]

Care to explain what would actually happen? I'm just curious.

Thank you for calling 911.
For police, press 1. For fire, press 2. For paramedics, press 3.
For a heart attack, press 1. For a stroke, press 2. For a gunshot wound, press 3. For going into labor, press 4. For broken bones, press 5.
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Thank you for calling 911, my name is Panjeeb, how may I be of assistance today?
Oh, a heart attack, that is no good sir. Have you tried turning it off and on?

[Timothy]

Care to explain what would actually happen? I'm just curious.

I honestly don't know, and that's the part that concerns me. Even without federal involvement, it stands to reason that we'd still have a lot of the amenities we've come to expect. Businesses need roads and firefighters, too, regardless of profit incentive. It's in everyone's best interest to keep the machine moving. But here's the problem I have with this scenario: Where's the structure? The oversight? The idea of each individual community maintaining infrastructure and emergency services as it sees fit frankly sounds like one giant clusterfuck.

[F-ck Casey]

Don't worry about it guys, just vote democrat and keep thinking change will come! :)

[Benjamin]

Introduce a GST (Goods and Services Tax) like Howard did to us? Tax the crap out of rich people and lessen the tax grip on the middle/lower working classes?

I'm down with that. Too bad it will never happen with Republicans in congress.

[Louis]

Don't worry about it guys, just vote democrat and keep thinking change will come! :)

Heh, because positive change has occurred with the GOP in control of the House? Not what the polls and the record show.

[Gloomy Mushroom]

Some of you guys are being silly. Private industry could take over every service the government currently provides. Now, that's not a scenario I support (it's actually kind of disconcerting), but the notion that the world as we know it would come crashing to a halt without taxes is a little ridiculous.

I'm sure community based programs such as my Women's Housing Scheme would totally be okay on it's own without federal funding when I live only in a regional country town. As much as I would like that, it wouldn't be okay. Even the Family Support Network wouldn't be able to provide the services it provides without the government backing their schemes and projects up.

As for the GST, I don't see why the American government would not introduce their version of it. I mean, they would make a fortune out of taxing goods and services, as do ours. Sure it threw small business off for a few years with their tax revenue etc. but think what the government can give back to the American citizens if they just followed John Howard's module.

I mean, fuck, we've got so many taxes that even we complain about it. National Relief Tax for the Queensland Economy. Goods and Services Tax. Income Tax. And we managed to avoid recession as a nation.

[Blackee Dammet]

Are you patronising me or are you being a dick again for no reason?

You never did explain what you meant in the other thread, and seeing as that was a pretty big indication of how you view world issues I feel the need to bring it up, as I feel you have a very loose grasp on world events and history in general.



You get what you voted for, as in, you vote for this person, and this is how the person carries on. So the people who voted them into office are getting what and who they voted for.


I'm not dur hur anything. I saw the film when it came out a few years ago. I'm not as outraged and shocked as you are.

Just because I'm not pointlessly ranting about how a mega-corporation is heartless and evil doesn't mean I support it.

How did you get 'shocked and outraged' from anything I said?

[Gloomy Mushroom]

You never did explain what you meant in the other thread, and seeing as that was a pretty big indication of how you view world issues I feel the need to bring it up, as I feel you have a very loose grasp on world events and history in general.




How did you get 'shocked and outraged' from anything I said?

And you've got a pretty loose grip on the LPA rule use of the R word as I recall. I believe I did explain it, saying that at the start of the war it was highly compared to the Vietnam war and that remark had nothing to do with topic. In fact, I brought up Vietnam several times and was only brought up on the last remark. So you've got a loose sight for my references.

And now back on topic, hur dur.

[Dean]

The registered sex offender (aka disgusting pedophile) that lives down my street is a Ron Paul supporter. Just thought I'd add that to this thread. Carry on.
Yeah, from what I do know of Ron Paul I would probably never ever vote for him if I was American, but it's still not really fair to say something like that.