The LPA Political Roll Call

[SuperDude526]

Back at my "home" forum, DTF, we have a Politics & Religion board that serves pretty much the same function as this board here, and we have a thread there that newcomers to P/R often like to post in to introduce themselves to the regulars. It gives everyone an idea where everyone else stands politically on various issues, so it's like that political compass quiz except you can actually see what people answer for specific issues.

The issues I'm gonna outline for myself aren't standard, these are just the political topics that I personally feel like I have a stake in and know a thing or two about. If there are other hot (or not so hot) topics that interest you, feel free to include or exclude at your whim. :)

Name: SuperDude526, Super Dude, Super, SD, etc.

Nationality: American (you don't have to add this if you don't want, again these are just the bullet points I think are important to include in my self-description)

Religious Views: Atheist, but culturally Jewish

Political Views: Somewhere in that liberal area

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Gay rights: Pro-rights, pro-marriage, national legalization (as opposed to state-by-state legal battles), etc.

Gun ownership: Heavily restrictive licensing policies, stricter training and psychological examination policies.

Market regulation: I'm a big fan of social democracy, which shouldn't necessarily mean a lot of state ownership but certainly a good deal of corporate oversight by government bureaucracies. Just to be clear I'm not a Communist, and I'm not a socialist per se, but I don't believe unbridled, run-wild capitalism can be trusted. History shows rampant corruption can occur in either extreme.

Taxation: As comes with social democracy, I don't necessarily like high tax rates but honestly no system makes more sense to me. The Netherlands have a really high tax rate, but that translates into a lot of great state-provided goods and services which is something I like.

Socialized/universal health care/anything: When it comes down to it, I'm a WITT, meaning "We're in this together." I believe a nation and its society is only as good as its weakest members, so I like the idea of a wide-reaching, good quality safety net.

Abortion: Pro-choice, would like to see Planned Parenthood get more funding.

Environment: As some of you know from an early post of mine I believe in global warming, but I don't believe it's as much of a threat as what could happen should we allow it to continue. Thus I'm a real greener; I'm a Politics major and recently I've been entertaining the idea of entering green policy because I feel really passionate about reducing carbon emissions and evolving our energy infrastructure into one that's healthier for the planet. I don't believe the answer is in alternative fuel cars, but making the change helps.

Voting/Suffrage: This one may be pretty controversial. While I believe every individual in a democratic state should inherently have the right to vote, I think in some cases (i.e. America), it may be necessary to involve a political quiz. Registered voters would arrive at the polls and be given two booklets: one detailing the main political events and highlights of the previous term, and one that asks objective 'yes or no' questions about the information from the former booklet. The questionnaire would therefore quiz voters on verifiable, objective information such as "Did [politician] vote yes or no on [proposal]?" or "Did the U.S. Supreme Court render [Constitutional amendment] constitutional or unconstitutional?" If the voter can't be arsed to keep up to date on the political goings on of the country (or his state or municipality or whatever), or won't even bother to look through the "cheat" book or trust its answers, why should that person be allowed to choose who's running the country? I know a lot of people will look at this and say it's undemocratic, but in my opinion the only thing worse than suffrage exclusion is including someone who deliberately or carelessly abuses their constitutional right just because they don't appreciate the implications of such power.

Race/gender relations: I don't know much about these issues, but in the back of my mind this whole past year I've felt almost as though our nation has gotten whiter and more sexist in its cultural mores, despite the rapidly diversifying demographics. And it's not just the birther thing with Obama; I feel as though our society as a whole is becoming unsettlingly close-minded, such that the old "white is good" paradigm appears to be returning, as is the "women can't do anything but mother" deal. It's so subtle I can barely point out an example, but it bothers me a great deal.

Israel: This is gonna be another controversial one. I am a staunch Zionist and there was a time when I had seriously considered devoting my life to resolving the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. In a way, that hasn't changed; in my non-career life, I am still endlessly devoted to peace in the Levant. However my views of how to bring that about have changed immensely; I've gone from being somewhere in the center-right (Israeli political spectrum: in favor settlements and against negotiations with Arabs) to being surprisingly leftist (favor a two-state solution and are very anti-war). My loyalty is still and forever will be to Israel, and I'm still working this equation out, but over the years I've become increasingly opposed to the settlement policy. That said, I do stick to my guns concerning the difficulty beset on either side towards making peace concessions, and I will always (except in cases of pre-emption) advocate Israel's right to defend itself.

There's a buttload more where that came from, so I'll just try to summarize the rest:

- The Iraq War was a mistake

- We should try to become friends with China, Brazil, and India

- Time to get off oil 'cause it's running out for realz

- Down with the PATRIOT Act

- Weed: I would never do it, but I see no reason why my neighbor shouldn't be able to enjoy it if he wants to

- That said, I'm anti-tobacco products, or at least I'd prefer the restaurant ask the smoker to leave rather than the non-smokers having to choose to leave (there's much more that goes into this one, so ask me to elaborate if you're curious)

- Torture is bad, m'kay?

- Abolish the Bush Doctrine

- America should become more pacifist in general and work on soft power instead

That's all I can think of right now, so list yours and enjoy!

[Dean]

For now I'm just going to be lazy and say that, besides all the stuff that's specific to America, my views are more or less the same as yours.

[CallofReach141]

1) Everyone has the right to own a gun as long as they are psychologically fit to know the responsibilities that come with owning one.
2) Repeal the Patriot Act
3) Withdraw troops from Afghanistan and Iraq.
4) Cease military engagement in Libya.
5) Close down Guantanamo and secret prisons across the globe.
6) Abolish the Federal Reserve Act.
That's all I have the time to say now.

[sotrix]

- Campaign finance reform should be priority number one.

- Markets, businesses and corporations should be regulated as much as possible. And then some.

- Drugs like marijuana should be legalized and regulated so these "drug wars" can end.

- The state should not have the power to restrict or censor the free and open exchange of ideas/information either online, in print, in media, et al.

- It should not be the purpose of the state to "nationalize" citizens but to inform them.

- I agree with OP that training should be mandatory for gun ownership (should even be taught in schools) but I disagree with psychological examinations. Getting a license should be very expensive but once you have one it isn't right for the state to hassle people with fees/paper work for constant renewals.

- I agree with OP that there should be tests for voter eligibility but OP's examples are insane. Just something that makes sure the people know what country they're living in. Requiring intimate knowledge of voting records and Supreme Court case outcomes is beyond the pale. Almost nobody knows that. I don't know that and I follow politics and current events religiously. There should be clearer ballots that highlight the position of candidates so voters don't vote against their own interest.

- Health care should be available and affordable. But it should also be the personal responsibility of people to stay healthy.

- The definition of "child abuse" should be broadened and then strictly enforced. Parental "rights" are too lenient and should be rewritten to further protect children from physical and emotional torment.

- The U.S. military should actively engage human rights abusers around the world. Bombs could be a supper effective catalyst for change.

- Cultural equality is a myth.

I could probably go on and on, there's so many issues.

[SuperDude526]

- Campaign finance reform should be priority number one.

- Markets, businesses and corporations should be regulated as much as possible. And then some.

- Drugs like marijuana should be legalized and regulated so these "drug wars" can end.

- The state should not have the power to restrict or censor the free and open exchange of ideas/information either online, in print, in media, et al.

- It should not be the purpose of the state to "nationalize" citizens but to inform them.

- I agree with OP that training should be mandatory for gun ownership (should even be taught in schools) but I disagree with psychological examinations. Getting a license should be very expensive but once you have one it isn't right for the state to hassle people with fees/paper work for constant renewals.

- I agree with OP that there should be tests for voter eligibility but OP's examples are insane. Just something that makes sure the people know what country they're living in. Requiring intimate knowledge of voting records and Supreme Court case outcomes is beyond the pale. Almost nobody knows that. I don't know that and I follow politics and current events religiously. There should be clearer ballots that highlight the position of candidates so voters don't vote against their own interest.

- Health care should be available and affordable. But it should also be the personal responsibility of people to stay healthy.

- The definition of "child abuse" should be broadened and then strictly enforced. Parental "rights" are too lenient and should be rewritten to further protect children from physical and emotional torment.

- The U.S. military should actively engage human rights abusers around the world. Bombs could be a supper effective catalyst for change.

- Cultural equality is a myth.

I could probably go on and on, there's so many issues.

I just want to clarify that I wasn't saying a voter should have to memorize voting records; I meant for example all the raging in the Tea Party about Obama raising the national tax rates. The fact is he actually lowered them, but Republicans can get away with fabrications like that because the people will and are willing to believe them, and because they believe what these politicians say, they continue to vote them in. If you ask on a questionnaire, "Did Obama raise taxes during his term?" that sort of thing should be reduced I expect.

[Gloomy Mushroom]

I think a lot of these issues have already been raised in the Serious Chat and a lot of people were warned about not respecting other people's opinions, as I recall correctly to the Osama thread, as my newest example.

[SuperDude526]

Oh, I didn't know, sorry. I'll keep it clean. I just wanted this to be a "repository" for people expressing what their views are, which they could then discuss in other threads. :) (My second post being an exception only because I wanted to make it impossible to misinterpret that one bullet point)

[Benjamin]

Nobody should own a gun unless it's used in your job
Everyone should get health care
Tax the living fuck out of rich people
Extremely Pro Gay rights and pro-choice
Kinda meh about the Middle East. Not sure what to think.

Ok I'm bored now.

[Ryo Hazuki]

Well the OP is almost handin hand with my opinions I guess.

[ThaHandyman]

Name: Tha Handyman, CocoPuffSupreme, Cody

Nationality: 15/16 European, 1/16 Cheroke

Religious Views: Christian

Political Views: Conservative
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Gay rights: You should be able to do what you want, but other than that I don't agree with homosexuality, it is against God's word. Why is this the first topic.

Gun ownership: Should be 18, no gun violation/criminal charges, other than that I'm packin

Market regulation: stay out of my country Commies! Lolz. Nah the government needs to keep Monopolies out of the industry, there's such a gray area though, is the At&T merger going to be better or worse for consumers? I love At&t, but probably worse.


Taxation: I could care less if you make 20,000 a year or 200,000, tax % should be the exact same. People need to stop demanding handouts and start fueling the economy with the old American work ethic.


Socialized/universal health care/anything: No. I want my doctors pushing the envelope, don't want the medical field to end up like our school systems. (my moms a great teacher, but some aren't). I'm all for helping the little guys out, and there are constantly church and school functions and fundraisers for people in need.


Abortion: Pro Life unless its raaaaaape

Environment: some people don't see conservatives as green or whatever, but I've never thrown anything other than food or gum out my window (no wrappers lolz) and I get the swirly lightbulbs, turn off my lights before I leave, the little stuff. I'm all for companies pushing to recycle and use cardboards over plastic.

Voting/Suffrage: Boring, this isn't 1920

Race/gender relations: I don't think people are racist anymore. There will always be a little bit of 'racism' just because we're all different. Same as short people tall people fat people skinny people. Just keep the muslims out, thanks. I could care less about your race, but if your denomination thinks taking out Christians is the way to go, not gonna let you in any mo!

p.s. Hang 10!!!

[Benjamin]

Taxation: I could care less if you make 20,000 a year or 200,000, tax % should be the exact same. People need to stop demanding handouts and start fueling the economy with the old American work ethic.


You may be the first republican I've seen that has said this and I applaud you for it.

In response to "I don't think America is racist anymore"...think again.

And I don't get why you have to limit abortions to rape victims. But whatever.

[Theazninvasion68]

Name: Theazninvasion68 / Maverick68
Nationality: American.
Religious view: Believer of God / Christan.
Political view: According to that online political test, I tested exactly in the middle, up 1, to the right 1, or very slightly conservative leaning.
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Gay Rights - You have every right to be whatever you like, and I'm comfortable with that. Civil unions permit almost exactly similar benefits as a traditional marriage imo.
Gun Ownership - Available to purchase under given conditions.
Market Regulation - No idea. : /
Health Care - Needs improvement, that is for sure.
Abortion - If, and only if, the lady aborting is a victim of rape.
Environment: Well, specifically? I'm all for Nat'l parks, planting tree's, cutting energy, and recycling. Improving energy efficiency and output with fewer or cheaper materials.
Voting - Everyone has a right to be represented by their congress reps / Senators, and ought to go vote when of age. Topics, policies, referendums, Initiatives, etc.. should also be explain by a neutral third party in easy-to-understand language.
Race / Gender - I'm Chinese, and I for one will say that America must be good relations with China.

[Jeff]

Name: Jay Sensei, Nemo, or Jeff
Nationality: American
Religious Views: Agnostic, but more leaning towards Christian.
Political Views: Unsure at this point.
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Gay Rights: People are people. They should be able to do whatever they want to. It doesn't matter who is sleeping with who, since it's not going to effect or harm me in anyway.
Gun Ownership: Only under extreme control and everyone purchasing a weapon should undergo a really thorough background check.
Healthcare: I'm for a better healthcare system, but I don't feel that forcing it upon us is the right way to go.
Race/Gender Relations: There definitely needs improvement. I find it really disappointing that people still have to worry about where they live just because of the color of their skin. My sister, who is biracial, has to struggle to get a job because she lives in Coeur D'Alene, Idaho, which is pretty bad when it comes to white supremacy.

[Gloomy Mushroom]

Name: Sarah/Castiel
Nationality: Australian
Religious Views: Not giving a shit since '89
Political Views: Varies

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Gay Rights - Love has no limits.
Gun Ownership - Available to purchase under given conditions. <-- what he said
Market Regulation - No idea. : / <--- what he said
Health Care - Everyone has a right to health care, no matter of social status.
Abortion - Depends. But I do believe it is not murder by any counts.
Environment - Peter Garrett's entrance into parliament as of lately made me hate everything about the environmental topics. Especially when religious extremists in parliament come along and say that the Japanese Earthquakes were a result of Global Warming. Global Warming in my opinion is not a scam.
Voting - Everyone should have a right to vote and if you don't choose to uphold this right, you shouldn't bitch or whinge about who gets into office and what policies they hold.
Race / Gender - I'm half Australian and half German so I think everyone should just get the fuck along seriously, we are all mature adults.

[ThaHandyman]

You may be the first republican I've seen that has said this and I applaud you for it.

In response to "I don't think America is racist anymore"...think again.

And I don't get why you have to limit abortions to rape victims. But whatever.

I said I don't think people are racist anymore! Yeah Americans are gonna be like, darn those brits! Or dang black people in the hood! Darn white trash in the country. Just like fat people are to blame for bigger toilets and higher celings for taller people. I hold the door open for and say yes sir/no mam and will befriend anyone reguardless of race. Maybe Oklahoma is just that friendly of a place, but as for "i don't like them/think they belong here/derserve this" based on race, I just don't see it.

[Benjamin]

I said I don't think people are racist anymore! Yeah Americans are gonna be like, darn those brits! Or dang black people in the hood! Darn white trash in the country. Just like fat people are to blame for bigger toilets and higher celings for taller people. I hold the door open for and say yes sir/no mam and will befriend anyone reguardless of race. Maybe Oklahoma is just that friendly of a place, but as for "i don't like them/think they belong here/derserve this" based on race, I just don't see it.

The Barack Obama birth certificate crap is the latest example. Racism isn't gone in this country by any means.

[Todd]

You know me, I tend to be pretty blunt about things:

Name: Todd

Nationality: American

Religion: The world would be a better place without it

Political views: Very liberal

Gay rights: Don't like gay sex? Then don't have it. Don't like gay marriage? Then don't get one. Just shut the fuck up and let gay people get married if they want to.

Abortion: Don't like abortion? Then don't get one. Just shut the fuck up and let women get an abortion if they want to.

Gun ownership: We need more gun control, not less. Whackjobs like the asshole who shot Gaby Giffords and killed the poor girl (and other people) in Arizona shouldn't be allowed near a Nerf gun, much less a real gun.

Market regulation: Yeah, what we have now has worked out soooo well. Regulate the fuckers.

Taxation: The rich don't pay enough taxes. In fact, the teabaggers bitch and moan about high taxes, but the current tax rates are lower than they were under Ronald Reagan, their patron saint of low taxes and capitalism.

Health care: No one should go broke when they get sick or be denied heath care when they don't have any money. The US system is the only one in the world of it's kind and the only one broken and fucked up like this. Obviously, what we have isn't working and what other countries have is. Everyone deserves good healthcare. No ifs, ands or buts.

Environment: I'm a WITT on this one. We all breathe the same air, drink from the same water, rely on the same ecosystem. Don't do anything to screw it up.

Voting/Suffrage: Yeah, not sure why this one is on here - any citizen who is 18 years has the right to vote and it should remain that way. The only change I would make is give Washington DC statehood so they have 2 senators and a representative. Or, exempt all citizens of the district from paying federal taxes. No taxation without representation, right?

Race/Gender: Racism and sexism are still both problems in this country - anyone who says otherwise is blind. I see it all the time sadly, and IMO, it's only gotten worse since Obama was elected, not better - I guess having a black president really brings out the klan in some people.

Middle East: US should GTFO.

[esaul17]

Name: Ross
Nationality: Canadian
Religious Views: Atheist/Antitheist
Political Views:

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Gay Rights - Should be the same as straight people with regards to marriage and such. I don't think marriage should be a legal issue though, so I would like everyone to get civil unions and let churches marry people by whatever legally unrecognized methodology they see fit.
Gun Ownership - I don't have too strong opinions. Buy them and register them I guess seems reasonable. I don't really care much about hunting.
Market Regulation - I honestly don't know much about economics. My sympathies lie with the free market, but some regulation is needed. Anti-monopoly stuff and stuff to keep companies honest.
Taxation: I like a progressive tax system but the exact figures I am not sure of. I think there should be a very real option and incentive for people to get more money than they know what to do with, and don't expect a 0% unemployment rate.
Health Care - I like Canada's health care, but am not opposed to a private + public system as I believe Britain has.
Abortion - I am pretty pro-abortion
Environment - I guess basic laws to protect the environment should exist, though I am not too environmentally conscious myself. Global warming is a real issue.
Voting - Everyone should be able to vote, though I am not too committed to letting some criminals vote either way. I would probably lean toward everyone though. I have never voted though, and think it is a bit over-rated. People generally have this idea that an ignorant vote is better than no vote, and I don't think that is true at all. If you don't put in a good amount of research you should stay home. For this reason I am in principle in favour of the voting test, but worried about a non-biased implementation.
Race / Gender - I am all for equality, don't care much for "equity". I am of the "equal means equal" school of thought and don't like Affirmative Action, "Positive Discrimination", etc..

[travz21]

Wtf is up with people who are pro-life but think it's ok for rape victims to get abortions? Wtf? I'm baffled.

[Avo]

You know me, I tend to be pretty blunt about things:

Name: Todd

Nationality: American

Religion: The world would be a better place without it

Political views: Very liberal

Gay rights: Don't like gay sex? Then don't have it. Don't like gay marriage? Then don't get one. Just shut the fuck up and let gay people get married if they want to.

Abortion: Don't like abortion? Then don't get one. Just shut the fuck up and let women get an abortion if they want to.

Gun ownership: We need more gun control, not less. Whackjobs like the asshole who shot Gaby Giffords and killed the poor girl (and other people) in Arizona shouldn't be allowed near a Nerf gun, much less a real gun.

Market regulation: Yeah, what we have now has worked out soooo well. Regulate the fuckers.

Taxation: The rich don't pay enough taxes. In fact, the teabaggers bitch and moan about high taxes, but the current tax rates are lower than they were under Ronald Reagan, their patron saint of low taxes and capitalism.

Health care: No one should go broke when they get sick or be denied heath care when they don't have any money. The US system is the only one in the world of it's kind and the only one broken and fucked up like this. Obviously, what we have isn't working and what other countries have is. Everyone deserves good healthcare. No ifs, ands or buts.

Environment: I'm a WITT on this one. We all breathe the same air, drink from the same water, rely on the same ecosystem. Don't do anything to screw it up.

Voting/Suffrage: Yeah, not sure why this one is on here - any citizen who is 18 years has the right to vote and it should remain that way. The only change I would make is give Washington DC statehood so they have 2 senators and a representative. Or, exempt all citizens of the district from paying federal taxes. No taxation without representation, right?

Race/Gender: Racism and sexism are still both problems in this country - anyone who says otherwise is blind. I see it all the time sadly, and IMO, it's only gotten worse since Obama was elected, not better - I guess having a black president really brings out the klan in some people.

Middle East: US should GTFO.
You just saved me a bunch of time. Mine is pretty much all of this - with the same tone lol.

[F-ck Casey]

Name: Casey

Nationality: American

Religious Views: Agnostic

Political Views: extremely liberal?

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Gay rights: It's whatever. I mean, it should be legal, yeah, but I'm not going to toss and turn at night because it's not.

Gun ownership: I think it should be harder to get a gun than it is, but that being said, I don't even know what you need to get one in the first place. It just seems to me that something like an semi-automatic weapon shouldn't be available to the general public. Call me crazy.

Market regulation: I don't know what this means, nor do I care, since I'm 21 and I'm the center of my own world.

Taxation: Tax the rich. They might work for their money like everyone else, and that's entirely debatable, but they make up an extreme minority, it could be used to benefit others.

Socialized/universal health care/anything: The government is there to, quite literally, protect us and care for us when we need it the most. Isn't when we're sick when we need the most, not when a middle eastern country "needs our help"?

Abortion: Pro-choice, but I can see the other side of the argument and ALMOST agree with it. But, ultimately, it's the choice of the woman, I think. It's their body, their temple. They get to decide what can or can't grown inside of them.

Environment: I don't know. Go green, make electric cars or use alternative energy. But, we'll rely on foreign oil to service our every need for a long time to come, in my opinion.

Race/gender relations: free earl

Israel: I don't follow this issue.

- pro-drugs
- i think if our national debt ceiling just broke, everything possible should be getting a budget readjustment. nothing should get an increase.
- foreign affairs is bullshit, and we shouldn't get involved unless asked or provoked. we have our own problems instead of trying to fix Libya.
- my ideal government would be 100% transparent, no secrecy. i realize how impossible that is given the world climate since, well, forever.

[ThaHandyman]

The Barack Obama birth certificate crap is the latest example. Racism isn't gone in this country by any means.

The whole Trump thing, was unbelievably embarrassing, ugly, and just dumb, he will get nowhere in our party. I guess you can say its racist, but its more political than racial. Who cares what color he is if theres any doubt or rumor about a political leader the opposing party will use it against them.

Which brings me to another point, I hate how divided America is, but I honestly don't see a way out.

[Gloomy Mushroom]

Wtf is up with people who are pro-life but think it's ok for rape victims to get abortions? Wtf? I'm baffled.

Wtf is wrong with people who think that being raped isn't traumatising enough, let alone falling pregnant to some person that violated you?

[travz21]

Wtf is wrong with people who think that being raped isn't traumatising enough, let alone falling pregnant to some person that violated you?

I'm definitely pro-choice. I just don't understand how people who are pro-life can pick and choose when it's ok to "murder" a baby. Being raped or not has nothing to do with it. Either you're against it or you're for it. Anything in between just doesn't make sense.

[Gloomy Mushroom]

I'm definitely pro-choice. I just don't understand how people who are pro-life can pick and choose when it's ok to "murder" a baby. Being raped or not has nothing to do with it. Either you're against it or you're for it. Anything in between just doesn't make sense.

It falls under the term "Exceptions" like saying you're either pro-labour or pro-liberal, when you can say "Hey I don't like Gilliard's carbon tax idea BUT I am all for the idea of sending the boat people back to Indonesia". And considering that rape isn't with consent either, so I think the people who are against but have exceptions, would rather be against planned sex abortions.

[travz21]

I don't understand really any of the stuff you just said.

All I mean is how can people consider themselves pro-life when they don't always consider the life of the potential child? To say it's ok to abort them in rape instances seems so illogical. Pro-life has nothing to do with the mother.

[esaul17]

I kind of agree with travz on that one. If you say the fetus is a human life and deserves the same rights to all of us, I don't see how it makes any sense to punish them for the crime of being the product of a rape. Saying the suffering of the woman giving birth is worse than murder seems odd to me.

[CallofReach141]

Wtf is up with people who are pro-life but think it's ok for rape victims to get abortions? Wtf? I'm baffled.

The psychological effect of being raped coupled with that of bearing a scar of that memory may be hard on women who have suffered sexual assault. I think it is a case of exceptionalism based on circumstances.

[travz21]

The psychological effect of being raped coupled with that of bearing a scar of that memory may be hard on women who have suffered sexual assault. I think it is a case of exceptionalism based on circumstances.

So why not make an exception with any woman who wants to do whatever she wants? Why does she need to get raped for pro-lifers to accept abortions? They shouldn't even be thinking about the woman. They should be thinking about they kid. And to make exceptions isn't living up to the pro-life label. Every yet-to-be-born is equal in their minds (at least it should be), so to treat some unequally is biased.

[CallofReach141]

So why not make an exception with any woman who wants to do whatever she wants? Why does she need to get raped for pro-lifers to accept abortions? They shouldn't even be thinking about the woman. They should be thinking about they kid. And to make exceptions isn't living up to the pro-life label. Every yet-to-be-born is equal in their minds (at least it should be), so to treat some unequally is biased.

It's a rock and a hard place kinda thing. That's where it's hard to draw the line.

[travz21]

How is it hard to draw a line if you're pro-life? You either value their life or you don't. They can't throw some kids aside or that goes against what they stand for.

[SuperDude526]

By the way you guys, you CAN choose other political issues to express your views on, those are just the ones I feel passionate or wanted to talk a little about. :P

[SuperDude526]

You know me, I tend to be pretty blunt about things:

Name: Todd

Nationality: American

Religion: The world would be a better place without it

Political views: Very liberal

Gay rights: Don't like gay sex? Then don't have it. Don't like gay marriage? Then don't get one. Just shut the fuck up and let gay people get married if they want to.

Abortion: Don't like abortion? Then don't get one. Just shut the fuck up and let women get an abortion if they want to.

Gun ownership: We need more gun control, not less. Whackjobs like the asshole who shot Gaby Giffords and killed the poor girl (and other people) in Arizona shouldn't be allowed near a Nerf gun, much less a real gun.

Market regulation: Yeah, what we have now has worked out soooo well. Regulate the fuckers.

Taxation: The rich don't pay enough taxes. In fact, the teabaggers bitch and moan about high taxes, but the current tax rates are lower than they were under Ronald Reagan, their patron saint of low taxes and capitalism.

Health care: No one should go broke when they get sick or be denied heath care when they don't have any money. The US system is the only one in the world of it's kind and the only one broken and fucked up like this. Obviously, what we have isn't working and what other countries have is. Everyone deserves good healthcare. No ifs, ands or buts.

Environment: I'm a WITT on this one. We all breathe the same air, drink from the same water, rely on the same ecosystem. Don't do anything to screw it up.

Voting/Suffrage: Yeah, not sure why this one is on here - any citizen who is 18 years has the right to vote and it should remain that way. The only change I would make is give Washington DC statehood so they have 2 senators and a representative. Or, exempt all citizens of the district from paying federal taxes. No taxation without representation, right?

Race/Gender: Racism and sexism are still both problems in this country - anyone who says otherwise is blind. I see it all the time sadly, and IMO, it's only gotten worse since Obama was elected, not better - I guess having a black president really brings out the klan in some people.

Middle East: US should GTFO.

Up top my man, gimme some skin. o/

p.s. The reason I mentioned the voting one was essentially because of all the teabaggers bitching about the electorate they elected for. Obviously this is a problem: if they don't care enough to pay attention to what's going on in the political arena, they're not gonna choose someone who best represents their interests. If they willingly and knowingly render themselves ignorant to this, why should they be allowed to vote? That is, unless a test is administered at the ballot to make sure they're paying attention and that, if they DO vote for the guy who's gonna screw them over in the end, at least they did so in full knowledge that they're screwing themselves over and this fact can be verified through objective Q+A (who voted for what, how high the tax bracket is, what were x politician's policies in his previous office, etc.).

[CallofReach141]

By the way you guys, you CAN choose other political issues to express your views on, those are just the ones I feel passionate or wanted to talk a little about. :P

Well let's start with nullifying the Federal Reserve and Patriot Acts. Furthermore cease TSA's camouflaged child molestation at airports. :P:

[Gloomy Mushroom]

This "pro-life vs pro-choice" debate is rather making me uncomfortable seeing that I am 33 weeks pregnant and if my baby was the result of rape, I wouldn't have made the choice to keep it, for the sake of my psyche with the baby being a constant reminder of what happened. I wouldn't let the kid even live with the fact that she was a result of rape, a violation of a woman's privacy and not one of planned sex. I could only imagine what effects it might have on her later in life, when she's old enough to understand the term "rape".

[Theazninvasion68]

I said I don't think people are racist anymore! I just don't see it.

Trust me, it's still alive and well. Maybe they don't get wide mainstream attention, but it's definitely here still.

[travz21]

Pro-life isn't about making choices. So when you start making choices, what are those people? It's just fun to try and get in the mindset of such a person. How they can stand so strong on a this view on abortions but have exceptions is beyond me. Either they value life or they don't. The circumstances of conception do not matter.


As for voting, if we only let knowledgeable people vote we'd only have like 5% of the nation voting.

[sotrix]

It baffles me how people can have opinions or positions on what OTHER people can and can't do with their bodies.

[Gloomy Mushroom]

It's compulsory to vote here. If you don't, you get a fine. I've had that happen to me, all because I didn't vote in a local election.

[Theazninvasion68]

Say, if we're going to have a pro-choice/life talk, maybe starting up another thread as it's only a small portion related to original post.

[Timothy]

Race/gender relations: I don't know much about these issues, but in the back of my mind this whole past year I've felt almost as though our nation has gotten whiter and more sexist in its cultural mores, despite the rapidly diversifying demographics. And it's not just the birther thing with Obama; I feel as though our society as a whole is becoming unsettlingly close-minded, such that the old "white is good" paradigm appears to be returning, as is the "women can't do anything but mother" deal. It's so subtle I can barely point out an example, but it bothers me a great deal.


I've noticed a hint of this too, but I don't think it's that pervasive. Old white people tend to bark the loudest in the political sphere, so that might color our perception.

[F-ck Casey]

I know I wouldn't trust a woman to run the country. Seriously.

[travz21]

I know I wouldn't trust a woman to run the country. Seriously.

Would PMS nukings rain down on this earth?

[Benjamin]

I will never understand how any human soul can disagree with any part of sir Todd's post a few pages back. I agree 100%.

[F-ck Casey]

Would PMS nukings rain down on this earth?

http://media.giantbomb.com/uploads/0/1992/1372664-rainblood_large.jpg

[ThaHandyman]

lolz, agreed Casey

[Theazninvasion68]

I will never understand how any human soul can disagree with any part of sir Todd's post a few pages back. I agree 100%.

Not everyone is a liberal, nor are liberal-istic ideology what everyone wants.

[Benjamin]

Not everyone is a liberal, nor are liberal-istic ideology what everyone wants.

Obvious statement is obvious.

[Dean]

I know I wouldn't trust a woman to run the country. Seriously.
That's because you're a cunt.

[Jeff]

Uhhh . . .

[sotrix]

I know I wouldn't trust a wealthy, white male to run the country. Seriously.

Especially a religious one. *shudders*

[esaul17]

That's because you're a cunt.

Shit just got real.


I know I wouldn't trust a wealthy, white male to run the country. Seriously.

Especially a religious one. *shudders*

Religiosity in power doesn't sit well with me either, but I'm not sure why one would inherently distrust someone based on their skin colour or sex.

[Andrea]

That's because you're a cunt.

I'm sorry but I have to give you an infraction. There are better ways to get your opinion across, as you know. I hope everything is ok with you because this isn't like you. :huh:

[Gloomy Mushroom]

I know I wouldn't trust a woman to run the country. Seriously.

Our woman PM is doing much better than any male politician I've heard of.

[El Muerto]

Religiosity in power doesn't sit well with me either, but I'm not sure why one would inherently distrust someone based on their skin colour or sex.

So you don't like discrimination based on colour or sex but you do like discrimination based on religion. I like your consistency.

[travz21]

So you don't like discrimination based on colour or sex but you do like discrimination based on religion. I like your consistency.

People choose their religion. They can't choose their sex or skin color. Being distrustful of someone's religion is fine.

[Gloomy Mushroom]

People choose their religion. They can't choose their sex or skin color. Being distrustful of someone's religion is fine.

Wrong. Some people don't get to choose their religion, it's enforced on them through family etc. In this stone age, being distrustful of someone's religion falls under discrimination, like being distrustful of someone's sex or skin colour.

[Jordan]

By the time you're able to be elected as president/prime minister I think you'd be old enough to make your own mind up as to what your religion is... Just because something's forced on you doesn't mean you necessarily have to believe it either.

[Gloomy Mushroom]

By the time you're able to be elected as president/prime minister I think you'd be old enough to make your own mind up as to what your religion is... Just because something's forced on you doesn't mean you necessarily have to believe it either.

By the time you're that old, you're probably just too set in your ways to believe anything else.

[SuperDude526]

I've noticed a hint of this too, but I don't think it's that pervasive. Old white people tend to bark the loudest in the political sphere, so that might color our perception.

Yeah, although I was talking about the socio-cultural stage more than anything, i.e. televised media and the rest. Race is definitely there with the birthers and a whitening of our music (for example: name an American artist other than Linkin Park that is not white (not implying they're not, although it's a somewhat mixed group) and is doing something other than electropop, or conversely, name a mainstream rock artist that isn't white, and furthermore, an American mainstream rock artist whose sound doesn't draw heavily from white culture music such as country). I see it in the fashion too, but I'm sure by that point people think I'm overthinking it. :P

The sexism is definitely there too, but it's harder for me to latch on to specific examples; I just know it's there from watching TV and stuff (reality TV is a gold mine). In movies for example, even the tough girls end up being damsels in distress by the end (a great example has been Kate Austen for the entire last decade in LOST). With sexism it's been harder for me to put my finger on it, but it's there. It may not even be sexism though, it may even just be a more solid drawing of the lines of gender roles, which I've also felt have been emboldened in recent years.

[El Muerto]

People choose their religion. They can't choose their sex or skin color. Being distrustful of someone's religion is fine.

That's wrong, because then it would also be ok to discriminate against someone because they don't believe in God, they chose not to believe.

[sotrix]

In movies for example, even the tough girls end up being damsels in distress by the end (a great example has been Kate Austen for the entire last decade in LOST).
Because the majority of showrunners are men. Writers have never been taught how to write strong female characters so they gravitate to preconceived caricatures. What you consider sexism in TV and film is just the result of a male-dominated industry and certainty isn't intentional.

If you want to focus on real sexism in America, look at corporate culture and the religious right.

[Benjamin]

By the time you're that old, you're probably just too set in your ways to believe anything else.

How can you just say things when you actually don't know if what you're saying is true?

There are countless people in this world that change their religious beliefs when they grow up. Both of my parents went to church every Sunday when they were kids and yet I haven't stepped foot in a church on a Sunday in my whole life. They're both atheists now. They grew up and decided that what they were taught to believe isn't necessarily right.

[esaul17]

That's wrong, because then it would also be ok to discriminate against someone because they don't believe in God, they chose not to believe.

Religion is a series of beliefs. I think the beliefs are quite insane. If someone is constantly talking to their invisible friend I am made uncomfortable putting them in power. If their invisible friend is known to gleefully look forward to apocolypse, I don't like their finger on their nuclear trigger.

If people had an argument against atheism that was convincing it would follow that you don't want them in power. I am not saying you can arbitrarily discriminate against someone for any belief, but beliefs have consequences and if you can't vote for someone on what they claim to believe when you think it relevant to their actions in power, I am not sure what criteria you are supposed to vote based on.

[travz21]

That's wrong, because then it would also be ok to discriminate against someone because they don't believe in God, they chose not to believe.

It's not that atheists like myself choose not to believe, it's just that there isn't anything to believe in. There was never a choice. Religion didn't exist until people made it up. Just because somebody says that something is real and I don't believe in it doesn't mean I'm choosing not to. I just don't think about it. Therefore I don't believe in it by default.

But obviously Christians don't think of atheists that way. They think we choose not to believe because we're evil or something. It's more that we just live our lives without thinking of unnecessary nonsense.

[El Muerto]

It's not that atheists like myself choose not to believe, it's just that there isn't anything to believe in. There was never a choice. Religion didn't exist until people made it up. Just because somebody says that something is real and I don't believe in it doesn't mean I'm choosing not to. I just don't think about it. Therefore I don't believe in it by default.

But obviously Christians don't think of atheists that way. They think we choose not to believe because we're evil or something. It's more that we just live our lives without thinking of unnecessary nonsense.

Well, if you put it that way, then it's not a choice with us either. I can't just wake up one day and say I choose not to believe from now on. It doesn't work like that.


Religion is a series of beliefs. I think the beliefs are quite insane. If someone is constantly talking to their invisible friend I am made uncomfortable putting them in power. If their invisible friend is known to gleefully look forward to apocolypse, I don't like their finger on their nuclear trigger.

If people had an argument against atheism that was convincing it would follow that you don't want them in power. I am not saying you can arbitrarily discriminate against someone for any belief, but beliefs have consequences and if you can't vote for someone on what they claim to believe when you think it relevant to their actions in power, I am not sure what criteria you are supposed to vote based on.

Well here's a counter example, someone might be uncomfortable with an atheist with their finger on their nuclear trigger because they're not afraid of going to hell if they kill a buch of people. This argument is even more convincing than yours.

[travz21]

Yeah. We wouldn't want all this logical and rational thinking behind nuclear warheads. We want someone religious who weighs every option with how they'll be judged by God and if it benefits them getting into heaven.

[El Muerto]

Yeah. We wouldn't want all this logical and rational thinking behind nuclear warheads. We want someone religious who weighs every option with how they'll be judged by God and if it benefits them getting into heaven.

See, that's exactly what I don't like about atheists, you exaggerate things way too much.

[esaul17]

So Christians only refrain from committing a nuclear holocaust because they don't want to be punished for it?

[El Muerto]

It isn't the only reason, but certainly is one reason more we have than atheists.

Also, see my previous post.

[esaul17]

Well, in a doctrine like Christianity if you forced someone to become Christian then killed them it would be better than letting them die an atheist and go to hell. And in general, killing in a Christian worldview just gets the good people to heaven faster, which hardly carries the same magnitude as ending their life for all eternity. If you want to claim exaggeration, you have to actually argue for it, not just state it like a fact.

[El Muerto]

Nah, some things are just so obvious that they don't need to be argued for.

And I'll drop this argument since you seem to be heating up the discussion and I don't feel too passionate about religion anyway.

Have a pleasant evening.

[esaul17]

Nah, some things are just so obvious that they don't need to be argued for.

And I'll drop this argument since you seem to be heating up the discussion and I don't feel too passionate about religion anyway.

Have a pleasant evening.

Now you're just being condescending. Bye bye.

[CallofReach141]

:offtopic:

[El Muerto]

Now you're just being condescending. Bye bye.

I'm not being condescending, I just don't want to take part in this discussion any more because I feel all you do is make exaggerations and broad generalizations about religious people.

And I sincerely wished you to have a pleasant evening because I'm planning of having it too.

[travz21]

See, that's exactly what I don't like about atheists, you exaggerate things way too much.

I wasn't exaggerating. I was using exactly what you said in an example.
someone might be uncomfortable with an atheist with their finger on their nuclear trigger because they're not afraid of going to hell if they kill a buch of people

You make it sound like Christians do things because they don't want to be wrongly judged by God (which you think is a better quality to have than an absence of a fear of a hell), so I just said it how it is.

[esaul17]

I'm not being condescending, I just don't want to take part in this discussion any more because I feel all you do is make exaggerations and broad generalizations about religious people.

And I sincerely wished you to have a pleasant evening because I'm planning of having it too.

Saying "it is so obvious I am right that I don't need to bother arguing it" is condescending from my perspective. Hope your evening is pleasant regardless.

[Benjamin]

Let's put it this way: there are people out there that shouldn't be politicians let alone president because of their religious beliefs. There ARE people that take it too far. Michelle Bachman is a prime example of someone who listens to "God" way too much.

But yeah, saying anyone who's religious shouldn't be president is a little extreme. Obama is a Muslim and to my knowledge doesn't bring his Muslim beliefs into his job at all.

[esaul17]

Let's put it this way: there are people out there that shouldn't be politicians let alone president because of their religious beliefs. There ARE people that take it too far. Michelle Bachman is a prime example of someone who listens to "God" way too much.

But yeah, saying anyone who's religious shouldn't be president is a little extreme. Obama is a Muslim and to my knowledge doesn't bring his Muslim beliefs into his job at all.

Hardy har har. And I am not saying they should be banned from office, just that it makes me uncomfortable. It would count against them when it came to voting, but they wouldn't instantly lose.

[El Muerto]

Let's put it this way: there are people out there that shouldn't be politicians let alone president because of their religious beliefs. There ARE people that take it too far. Michelle Bachman is a prime example of someone who listens to "God" way too much.

But yeah, saying anyone who's religious shouldn't be president is a little extreme. Obama is a Muslim and to my knowledge doesn't bring his Muslim beliefs into his job at all.

Obama is Christian.

[Benjamin]

Obama is Christian.

Wow I fail. Pretty sure someone told me that recently. That's something I should have looked up myself I guess haha.

But regardless, my main point doesn't change.

[Theazninvasion68]

See, that's exactly what I don't like about atheists, you exaggerate things way too much.

This.

Not to say that The extreme other end is any better either.

[travz21]

I fail to see any exaggeration so far.

[Dean]

See, that's exactly what I don't like about atheists, you exaggerate things way too much.


I feel all you do is make exaggerations and broad generalizations about religious people.
You just made one about atheists.

All I can really say about that is that I think Dumbledore is right. Even if they're really set in your ways criticising someone's beliefs on religion, whether they're an atheist or a really devout believer, is not really the same as discriminating against someone for their gender, ethnicity etc.


I'm sorry but I have to give you an infraction. There are better ways to get your opinion across, as you know. I hope everything is ok with you because this isn't like you. :huh:
I was very very drunk when I made that post and others. Sorry.

[Gloomy Mushroom]

How can you just say things when you actually don't know if what you're saying is true?

There are countless people in this world that change their religious beliefs when they grow up. Both of my parents went to church every Sunday when they were kids and yet I haven't stepped foot in a church on a Sunday in my whole life. They're both atheists now. They grew up and decided that what they were taught to believe isn't necessarily right.

Notice the word PROBABLY meaning PROBABLY they are too set in their ways not they are too set in their ways, PROBABLY leaves room for exception.

[ThaHandyman]

You just made one about atheists.

All I can really say about that is that I think Dumbledore is right. Even if they're really set in your ways criticising someone's beliefs on religion, whether they're an atheist or a really devout believer, is not really the same as discriminating against someone for their gender, ethnicity etc.


I was very very drunk when I made that post and others. Sorry.

Well Dumbledore thought Obama was a Muslim...

Though I do agree with this post, I agree with most of what El Muerto said.

[Dean]

I wasn't saying I think he's right that Obama is a Muslim, and even if he thought that it doesn't make him any less right when it comes to other things.

[Benjamin]

Well Dumbledore thought Obama was a Muslim...

Though I do agree with this post, I agree with most of what El Muerto said.

That was uncalled for. Come on.

And besides, getting to know the religion of my president is on the bottom of my list of things to do. Someone told me he was muslim and I didn't have any reason to doubt him. Now I know the truth.

[sotrix]

Obama is actually an atheist just pretending to be a Christian in order to win elections. That's one of the reasons why I voted for him.

[ThaHandyman]

Obama is actually an atheist just pretending to be a Christian in order to win elections. That's one of the reasons why I voted for him.

The ignorance...is unbearable, this post reeks of it. The politi-cred of cats posting in this thread is sinking fast.

[Gloomy Mushroom]

Why the hell would you vote for a politician in the first place based on their religious views when it's their policies you are voting for not the way they perceive God? Sure, their personal views might influence their decisions (especially in the abortion debate) but why vote for someone cos he's Muslim or an Atheist?

[ThaHandyman]

Because, like you said, religion would influence their policies. An athiest would try and keep the 10 commandments out of public places, and further push evolution into public school teaching. A muslim would not ally with Israel. A Christian would be against gay marriage and abortion. A buddhist would say F this im gonna sit down, hum, and stare at bamboo.

All "woulds" are more like "most likely", but you get my point.

*and Dumbledore that wasn't supposed to be as much of a personal shot as it read.

[travz21]

Wait, schools aren't already teaching evolution?

[esaul17]

To me it is the direct links to policy and just the reflection it has on how they come to form beliefs. A thought process that arrives at "There is an invisible man in the sky and I should do what they say" is one that could likely arrive at similar conclusions I find unsavory. It does not give me confidence that the ship of state is being steered by reason.

[Jordan]

A buddhist would say F this im gonna sit down, hum, and stare at bamboo.


The ignorance...is unbearable, this post reeks of it.
/

[travz21]

Yeah, Tiger Woods does not sit down, hum, or stare at bamboo.

[Gloomy Mushroom]

Yeah, Tiger Woods does not sit down, hum, or stare at bamboo.

Nor does the Dalai Lama.

To the people who do not know, http://www.google.com.au/search?sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=Dalai+Lama

[Dean]

I don't think that post was supposed to be taken as seriously/literally as people are taking it. Either way it's right.

[Gloomy Mushroom]

Well considering that it was implied that Buddhists just stay out of things entirely, is false and a massive generalisation to their religion. They got a involved in a lot of world politics. Especially given what the Dalai Lama was put through at a young age (being force to flee Tibet etc) because he wouldn't fight the Chinese. Even if it's not a Monk, Buddhists still hold a lot of opinion over matters.

[Dean]

Well if you want to take it literally and not just as an exaggeration, that wasn't the only generalisation there. I don't see anything wrong with the Buddhist part in particular.

But either way, the point is that if you have strong views on religion one way or another and you're a politician, it probably is going to affect the job you do.

[ThaHandyman]

I don't think that post was supposed to be taken as seriously/literally as people are taking it. Either way it's right.

This guy has got it down. I'm just tryin to keep a semi-light mood yall. I know that's not what Bhuddists do. The point is religion will affect your decisions.

[Derek The Infamous]

I'm just gonna step in quick, and ask everyone to take a deep breath and try to relax in this thread. Things have been getting very heated and although politics and religion are topics that mean a lot to all of you, we still have to maintain a level of civility. So please, clear your heads and relax.

[Louis]

I'm just gonna step in quick, and ask everyone to take a deep breath and try to relax in this thread. Things have been getting very heated and although politics and religion are topics that mean a lot to all of you, we still have to maintain a level of civility. So please, clear your heads and relax.

I was going to say the same thing, actually. But in the meantime, I'm going to address the issues mentioned at the beginning of this thread:

Name: Louis
Nationality: American (Of Cypriot origin)
Religious Views: Agnostic (Family is Greek Orthodox)
Political Views: Liberal

Gay rights: The LGBT community should have all of the rights that heterosexuals do, including those to marriage. These should be legalized nationally.
Gun ownership: As stated by SuperDude526, "Heavily restrictive licensing policies, stricter training and psychological examination policies,"

Market regulation: Government oversight of large corporations and their practices is absolutely necessary.

Taxation: Taxes are necessary despite their inconvenience, and those who make more money should be taxed more for the sake of the common good.

Healthcare: Allow people to choose from private firms, but provide a minimal government option that has all the basic services for people who cannot afford more expensive private healthcare.

Abortion: Only if necessary, i.e. in rape cases or in situations where the mother's life is threatened. Ultimately pro-choice, but women should keep in mind if they simply accidentally got pregnant that there are many couples without children who can't have them.

Environment: Considering I'm an Environmental Policy major, I think this is an extremely important matter that the government should stress. It is absolutely necessary that we make a transition from non-renewable resources to renewable resources, that government policy be adjusted to fix our issues with water rights and resource rights. Alternative fuels must be used, buildings must become more energy-efficient, and people in general need to be better-educated from a young age about how to live more sustainably. Recycling and composting needs to become more widespread, and more materials used to make consumables (water bottles, for example) need to become reusable (i.e., make water bottles without BPA in them, which would not only make them reusable but eliminate the risks of developmental problems in children). There's a shit ton more we have to do, but we have to make changes and the sooner we make them, the better off we'll all be.

Voting / Suffrage: Tests are necessary, and better education for voters is necessary too. I think it's fair to say that many people who go to the polls are uninformed people. While some people say that this would be the equivalent of a poll tax, it isn't for two reasons: poll taxes were implemented to exclude particular races, and this test would only account for how well-informed people are, which is all people need to be when going to the polls. There's a reason why the Founders of our country did not follow suit with a public assembly as the Greeks did, which is that they did not want uneducated people and people with bad intentions to sway the vote. Voting also needs to be easier to do but still secure enough not to be skewed.

Race / gender relations: Total equality is impossible, but it is a goal we must strive for regardless. Only with a strict emphasis on the equality of all peoples can we hope to see racism and discrimination eliminated in future generations.

Israel: As with all other countries, stay out of it. We have no right to get involved with other countries unless something completely and utterly inhumane is occurring that threatens the lives of the American people (from the US standpoint).

- - - -

Addressing an earlier point made throughout the thread:

Someone asked earlier why people take religion into account: You would too if you were ultra-religious. That's just how people are. People feel that they will be more adequately represented and accounted for by their government if the person in power is of their religion. That's just how it is. If America were a dominantly Muslim country, we would be advocating for a Muslim President, same goes for Buddhism and Judaism and whatnot. In this particular scenario, we're looking for Christian Presidents, or Protestant ones. Do I agree with this? No. I don't think religion makes any sense to vote on, but people do consider it. People should be voting with the policies of the candidates in mind.

Oh yeah, and just as a general note, anyone who takes it upon themselves to insult someone else will receive an infraction. So clear your heads and be mindful of what you say. Thanks.

[Jen]

No. I don't think religion makes any sense to vote on, but people do consider it. People should be voting with the policies of the candidates in mind.


It goes beyond the religious viewpoint, people are inclined to vote for those candidates that share their core values as well, taking into consideration their stance on subjects such as abortion, the death penalty, etc which in many (not all) cases can be in part determined by a persons religious background. A person who is a devout Catholic is likely to vote for someone that agrees with Church doctrine on abortion, rather than someone that supports it. It might all come back down to religion, but I think you can get the idea.

[Louis]

It goes beyond the religious viewpoint, people are inclined to vote for those candidates that share their core values as well, taking into consideration their stance on subjects such as abortion, the death penalty, etc which in many (not all) cases can be in part determined by a persons religious background. A person who is a devout Catholic is likely to vote for someone that agrees with Church doctrine on abortion, rather than someone that supports it. It might all come back down to religion, but I think you can get the idea.

Agreed. Thank you for elaborating on that. :)

[Dean]

Name: Dean
Nationality: British
Religious Views: More or less atheist, from a family that's mostly either Church of England or Catholic.
Political Views: Liberal

Gay rights: For.

Market regulation: Mixed markets. Enough regulation for there to be an even playing field. This isn't really my area of expertise though to be honest.

Taxation: Taxes are necessary despite their inconvenience, and those who make more money should be taxed more for the sake of the common good. What Louis said.

Healthcare: Shouldn't be a commodity for everyone, but I'm ok with private options being available for people who want them.

Abortion: There are cases where I'd be iffy on it but I don't know how that would be legislated, so pro-choice.

Environment: The environment should be protected, and most of the measures against pollution and wasting energy and the like seem practical to me anyway.

Race / gender relations: For equality, against affirmative action and things like that. When it comes to religion, I think that whatever you believe your rights end where other people's begin.

[ThaHandyman]

As for taxes, Calvin Coolidge once said, "Don't expect to build up the weak by pulling down the strong".

[Benjamin]

Calvin Coolidge said something? This is news to me. :lol:

[Dean]

If someone earns a lot of money, more often than not what they get taxed is probably still peanuts compared to what they keep. I don't see why it'd be that big a deal.

[Timothy]

A flat tax sounds intriguing, but I'm not sure how well it would work in the U.S.

[Jordan]

This guy has got it down. I'm just tryin to keep a semi-light mood yall. I know that's not what Bhuddists do. The point is religion will affect your decisions.
Yeah but, Buddhism isn't even a religion.

[Vriska]

Name: KATHYxx
Nationality: USA
Religious Views: Secular Humanist
Political Views: labels create tribalistic in-group, out-group thinking. I prevent myself from taking mental shortcuts by not aligning myself with any faction.


Firstly, Religion: Anyone's core philosophies will radiate out and color all of their subsequent decisions, even when it's indirect and not obvious. Almost all of politics has religious elements at it's core or its voter base. It's much more obvious when you're not of the majority religion. All of the world's beliefs can be categorized in two categories: knowable and unknowable. Knowable is the realm of facts and evidence. Things that we can measure, question and make decisions over with some degree of objectivity, even if there's plenty of grey. The unknowable is the realm of faith: this is where all superstitions sit. Unless religious people provide evidence of their beliefs, it is inherently not fair for them to legislate based on their imaginations, as everyone's idea is different. Every person is entitled to have a belief about the "unknowable" but cannot force anyone else under penalty of law to accept them. The following have origins or justifications in religious belief. Even if you don't think they're religious, many of their proponents justify them for religious reasons, and then disguise that with other rhetoric:

Anti-Abortion legislation
School Sanctioned Prayer
Creationism / Intelligent Design (which is Creationism rebranded after loons discovered that Creationism wouldn't be taught in schools. Don't be fooled)
The idea that the world is fair and just

Subsequently, the idea that the poor are poor because they are lazy or otherwise deserve it
The idea that we shouldn't aid people suffering natural diasters because God is punishing them
The idea that black, mexican, jewish, muslim or any other minority is inherently stupider than a white person
The idea that women are to obey the head man of the household and should go make a sandwich. Or that women have inferior intelligence / deserve to get raped / etc.
The idea that God is on our side in all wars, and our enemies are evil poo-flinging monsters that only exist to undermine our great country
The idea that Global Warming can't happen because God wouldn't do such a thing.

Anti-Gay laws / Sodomy laws / anything to do with consensual sex.

Emphasis on CONSENT. Pedophilia and Bestiality don't include consent. That's why they're different than gay marriage / things other than the missionary position.
Alcohol is sitll not consent.




All of the above should not be legislated unless religious people can provide *actual* evidence that move their beliefs into the realm of the knowable.


As for non-religious things:

the Budget: Don't talk to me about cutting programs if the military isn't one of them. If you're firing missles worth as much as any of the organizations you're blathering about, cutting them won't matter. furthermore, I don't believe society should enjoy low taxes while troops are being deployed. If people want war then people should pay for it. Prolonged military spending has crippled countries before. I also think getting out of this budget without both cuts and taxes is a extremely silly idea. Everyone's hurting, so your plight isn't special.

Drugs: legalize em, tax em, regulate em.
Guns: tax em, regulate em. They are a sort of an infinity-plus-one sword in real life. A game breaker.

Science: not infallible, but the #1 source of knowledge that we have. It is to be cherished, not kicked under a rug. The most beautiful thing about it is that it self-corrects.

The most important thing : Education. We need education to have educated society, and educated voters, and people to keep this country on top of things. Argumentative Logic should be required for everyone to learn. Furthermore, this is our front line against drugs and other bad stuff. The education model is a little outdated though.

Post EDIT:

equality: "Reverse Discrimination" is overblown melodrama theater. Do not confuse loss of privilege with being truly disadvantaged. Most white men couldn't tell the difference, not knowing what it's like to be in a minority to start with. Equality is not "well let's just say everyone's equal and make everything the same for everyone and then put our hands in our ears." Because the world is inherently unfair and unequal. We have to make it equal. It's like super smash bros: to find out who's best in a tourney, they always pick stages like final Destination that's flat and is sure to bring out the best in people's skill, and not stages that have a lot of random elements or items. Real life is like the latter.

[SuperDude526]

*political spiel*

High five Environmental Policy majors! o/

I want to make an addendum to my taxation bit: I believe the rich's taxes should be higher than the less rich, but all should be high nonetheless (as mentioned, I believe in a social democracy). Also, given higher taxes for the rich that are in place (the top 10% do pay more than the bottom 50% combined), I am sick of teabaggers complaining about how their taxes leave them without a roof over their heads (read: a new flatscreen TV), especially considering national tax rates are the lowest they've been since the Korean War.

[El Muerto]

Yeah but, Buddhism isn't even a religion.

Yeah it is. It's both a life philosophy and a proper religion.

[Dean]

Yeah but, Buddhism isn't even a religion.
Yep, I'm pretty sure it is. The point still stands anyway, that if a politician was a buddhist it isn't unlikely that it would come through in their policies

[Gloomy Mushroom]

Yeah but, Buddhism isn't even a religion.

Um yes it is.

[Jordan]

I'm probably gonna end up sounding increasingly ignorant as I reply to the completely necessary three people telling me I'm wrong, BUT - While buddhism is a religion is the widest sense possible, it's not about following an overseeing all powering creator of the world's ideals and morals - the philosophies of buddhists are based in real life and are less about sin and more about following a loose set of teachings. And I don't really think it can be compared at all to christianity or islam.

Well that sure was vague :D

In any case, I also don't see how being a Buddhist would affect someone's decisions in politics. "Staring at bamboo" will probably just help a Buddhist come to more rational and reasonable views, as apposed to someone who's views are affected by someone who will send them to hell or wherever if they don't follow their morals and values. I'm really tired hopefully this makes the tiniest bit of sense.

[Gloomy Mushroom]

I'm probably gonna end up sounding increasingly ignorant as I reply to the completely necessary three people telling me I'm wrong, BUT - While buddhism is a religion is the widest sense possible, it's not about following an overseeing all powering creator of the world's ideals and morals - the philosophies of buddhists are based in real life and are less about sin and more about following a loose set of teachings. And I don't really think it can be compared at all to christianity or islam.

Well that sure was vague :D

In any case, I also don't see how being a Buddhist would affect someone's decisions in politics. "Staring at bamboo" will probably just help a Buddhist come to more rational and reasonable views, as apposed to someone who's views are affected by someone who will send them to hell or wherever if they don't follow their morals and values. I'm really tired hopefully this makes the tiniest bit of sense.

re·li·gion   
[ri-lij-uhn]
–noun
1.
a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, especially when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.
2.
a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects: the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion.


So please enlighten me with how Buddhism is not a religion.

[Jordan]

I liked the part where you read my post.

[esaul17]

re·li·gion   
[ri-lij-uhn]
–noun
1.
a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, especially when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.
2.
a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects: the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion.


So please enlighten me with how Buddhism is not a religion.

The superhuman agency or agencies part would be what he was referring to I imagine.

[travz21]

Name: KATHYxx
Nationality: USA
Religious Views: Secular Humanist
Political Views: labels create tribalistic in-group, out-group thinking. I prevent myself from taking mental shortcuts by not aligning myself with any faction.


Firstly, Religion: Anyone's core philosophies will radiate out and color all of their subsequent decisions, even when it's indirect and not obvious. Almost all of politics has religious elements at it's core or its voter base. It's much more obvious when you're not of the majority religion. All of the world's beliefs can be categorized in two categories: knowable and unknowable. Knowable is the realm of facts and evidence. Things that we can measure, question and make decisions over with some degree of objectivity, even if there's plenty of grey. The unknowable is the realm of faith: this is where all superstitions sit. Unless religious people provide evidence of their beliefs, it is inherently not fair for them to legislate based on their imaginations, as everyone's idea is different. Every person is entitled to have a belief about the "unknowable" but cannot force anyone else under penalty of law to accept them. The following have origins or justifications in religious belief. Even if you don't think they're religious, many of their proponents justify them for religious reasons, and then disguise that with other rhetoric:

Anti-Abortion legislation
School Sanctioned Prayer
Creationism / Intelligent Design (which is Creationism rebranded after loons discovered that Creationism wouldn't be taught in schools. Don't be fooled)
The idea that the world is fair and just

Subsequently, the idea that the poor are poor because they are lazy or otherwise deserve it
The idea that we shouldn't aid people suffering natural diasters because God is punishing them
The idea that black, mexican, jewish, muslim or any other minority is inherently stupider than a white person
The idea that women are to obey the head man of the household and should go make a sandwich. Or that women have inferior intelligence / deserve to get raped / etc.
The idea that God is on our side in all wars, and our enemies are evil poo-flinging monsters that only exist to undermine our great country
The idea that Global Warming can't happen because God wouldn't do such a thing.

Anti-Gay laws / Sodomy laws / anything to do with consensual sex.

Emphasis on CONSENT. Pedophilia and Bestiality don't include consent. That's why they're different than gay marriage / things other than the missionary position.
Alcohol is sitll not consent.




All of the above should not be legislated unless religious people can provide *actual* evidence that move their beliefs into the realm of the knowable.


As for non-religious things:

the Budget: Don't talk to me about cutting programs if the military isn't one of them. If you're firing missles worth as much as any of the organizations you're blathering about, cutting them won't matter. furthermore, I don't believe society should enjoy low taxes while troops are being deployed. If people want war then people should pay for it. Prolonged military spending has crippled countries before. I also think getting out of this budget without both cuts and taxes is a extremely silly idea. Everyone's hurting, so your plight isn't special.

Drugs: legalize em, tax em, regulate em.
Guns: tax em, regulate em. They are a sort of an infinity-plus-one sword in real life. A game breaker.

Science: not infallible, but the #1 source of knowledge that we have. It is to be cherished, not kicked under a rug. The most beautiful thing about it is that it self-corrects.

The most important thing : Education. We need education to have educated society, and educated voters, and people to keep this country on top of things. Argumentative Logic should be required for everyone to learn. Furthermore, this is our front line against drugs and other bad stuff. The education model is a little outdated though.

Maybe the best post I've ever read on the topic. Well done.

[Louis]

High five Environmental Policy majors! o/

I want to make an addendum to my taxation bit: I believe the rich's taxes should be higher than the less rich, but all should be high nonetheless (as mentioned, I believe in a social democracy). Also, given higher taxes for the rich that are in place (the top 10% do pay more than the bottom 50% combined), I am sick of teabaggers complaining about how their taxes leave them without a roof over their heads (read: a new flatscreen TV), especially considering national tax rates are the lowest they've been since the Korean War.

Good shit, man! Good to see others are studying that area too. :)

And I think we can all agree that Buddhism is a recognized religion, even if it differs from the more common theological religions such as Islam and Christianity. I'm only saying this to set the record straight so you guys can stop arguing about it and move along without getting at each other's throats.

[Dean]

I liked the part where you read my post.
Please, just let it go. It fits the dictionary definition of religion whether or not you count it as one, and there's not really any point arguing about it anyway.


In any case, I also don't see how being a Buddhist would affect someone's decisions in politics. "Staring at bamboo" will probably just help a Buddhist come to more rational and reasonable views, as apposed to someone who's views are affected by someone who will send them to hell or wherever if they don't follow their morals and values. I'm really tired hopefully this makes the tiniest bit of sense.
Even if they did just do that, it's still an affect of their buddhism for better or for worse.

[sotrix]

I support federal aid to disaster victims, especially floods and tornadoes.

[travz21]

Hope this won't hijack the thread, but here's a video I thought brought up good points.

MXLGyOdE_tc

[Gloomy Mushroom]

According to our national sensis Jedism is a real religion. No joke :lol:

[El Muerto]

Census

[Louis]

Oh God.

[Dean]

Oh for the love of quantum mechanics.

[Gloomy Mushroom]

I support federal aid to disaster victims, especially floods and tornadoes.

Why wouldn't you? lol.

[Vriska]

Why wouldn't you? lol.

[insert Libertarian here] :p

[Louis]

Why wouldn't you? lol.

There are plenty of reasons I don't agree with, but many people think any sort of welfare on part of the government, including disaster relief, is wrong. I understand where they're coming from but I think some, including disaster relief, is necessary.

[El Muerto]

What are those reasons? I don't think I've ever met anyone who has a problem with government disaster relief.

[Louis]

What are those reasons? I don't think I've ever met anyone who has a problem with government disaster relief.

You'd be surprised. I was too. :lol:

But I honestly think for those people it's just based around the idea that welfare is an institution of pity, and that governments should not be involved in people's affairs. Otherwise I couldn't really tell you how those people think. I would imagine they have their reasons.

[Theazninvasion68]

You'd be surprised. I was too. :lol:

But I honestly think for those people it's just based around the idea that welfare is an institution of pity, and that governments should not be involved in people's affairs. Otherwise I couldn't really tell you how those people think. I would imagine they have their reasons.

How long does welfare last for? Last I heard was for 2 years..

[Gloomy Mushroom]

How long does welfare last for? Last I heard was for 2 years..

I don't know how the American welfare system works but over here, as long as you know ways around working, you can be on welfare for your entire life here.