Osama Bin Laden Is Dead.

[Mark]

Turn on CNN, immediately. Barack Obama speech coming soon.

[Todd]

America, fuck yeah!

[Jeff]

You can watch his speech here as well

http://www.youtube.com/citizentube

[The Doctor]

Obligatory "America Fuck Yeah" inserted here. In all seriousness, this is amazing! History in the making right here!

[CallofReach141]

It still won't change much. The Taliban and Al-Qaeda have other frontmen, he's just one of them. As for me the whole Bin Laden thing was ruse to further the "War on Terror" farce. Just throwing it out there.

Still waiting for Obama's speech though.

[Blackee Dammet]

That dang ol' Osama learned about charcoal the hard way, aye tell ya'what


http://www.behindthevoiceactors.com/_img/chars/char_6988.jpg


It still won't change much. The Taliban and Al-Qaeda have other frontmen, he's just one of them. As for me the whole Bin Laden thing was ruse to further the "War on Terror" farce. Just throwing it out there.


Quite an understatement, there.

[travz21]

It still won't change much. The Taliban and Al-Qaeda have other frontmen, he's just one of them. As for me the whole Bin Laden thing was ruse to further the "War on Terror" farce. Just throwing it out there.

Still waiting for Obama's speech though.

This.

[D-rock]

Id like to think its a step forward. Hell, im pretty excited!
FUCK YEAH!

:headbang:

[Jeff]

MURRIKA!

[Blackee Dammet]

miJSxfrJ-a4

[ThaHandyman]

America.Amarica.America.

[11:54]

They should take his body and show it on TV to everyone in America.

Then throw him off the Empire State building.

EDIT: Chris Rock gets it:

It would be funny if Obama came to the podium wearing a bloody shirt with a severed ashy foot in his hand and said " yea I got that motherfucker".

[SuperDude526]

America, fuck yeah!

No way. I was just about to post this.

[iamsatan]

Counter-Terrorists Win.

Obama ordered the hit personally, holy shit, blood on his hands, dude doesn't fuck around.

[Doris The Spider]

Well, I DO hate Obama, but this is pretty awesome. Too bad he will win reelection now.

[Doris The Spider]

I missed Obama's speech. :/

[Blackee Dammet]

I missed Obama's speech. :/

It was only like 4 minutes long.

[Andrea]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v602/Pecan603/Gifs/fd5648.gif

[Mark]

Longer than that.

Speech is being re-broadcast on CNN at 12:30EST (two mins from now)

[Harlz]

America, fuck yeah!

Here we go...

I'll join you in "America, fuck yeah-ing" when they do something about someone who's still relevant, like Gudafi...

Glad he's dead, but at this point, it's nothing to brag about...

[Chris(tmas)]

USA USA USA USA USA USA USA!!

[Jeff]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGiYEWRzTik

[HypnoToad]

I'm gong to tell my children about this some day.

[Avo]

It still won't change much. The Taliban and Al-Qaeda have other frontmen, he's just one of them. As for me the whole Bin Laden thing was ruse to further the "War on Terror" farce. Just throwing it out there.
This.

[Blackee Dammet]

Here we go...

I'll join you in "America, fuck yeah-ing" when they do something about someone who's still relevant, like Gudafi...

Glad he's dead, but at this point, it's nothing to brag about...

Murdered his son and children today as well, in fact. We're working our way up the ladder! :D

[Vriska]

That's all fine and good, but are we done yet?

Call me when that happens.

[Jordan]

Oh man, I love it when you guys kill someone!

[Jawsome]

I don't know who I'm more annoyed by at this point, the "America Fuck Yeah-ers" or the Downers that have nothing better to do than try and put a negative spin on everything :P

Anyway, Bin Laden is dead. Cheers!

[Agent O]

It still won't change much. The Taliban and Al-Qaeda have other frontmen, he's just one of them. As for me the whole Bin Laden thing was ruse to further the "War on Terror" farce. Just throwing it out there.

Still waiting for Obama's speech though.


Here we go...

I'll join you in "America, fuck yeah-ing" when they do something about someone who's still relevant, like Gudafi...

Glad he's dead, but at this point, it's nothing to brag about...

These.

[El Muerto]

How sick and disturbed do you have to be to go out on the streets and celebrate somebody's death, whoever he is..

[Agent O]

I find this more interesting than the death of Osama. The Guantanamo Bay files leak: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guantanamo_Bay_files_leak#.22Nuclear_hellstorm.22

Another element from the documents cited Khalid Sheikh Mohammed saying that, if Osama Bin Laden was captured or killed by U.S. allies, an Al-Qaeda sleeper cell would detonate a "weapon of mass destruction" in a "secret location" in Europe, and promised it would be "a nuclear hellstorm".[4][17][3] By March 2003, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed had been waterboarded at least 183 times by the CIA.[18]

It also reveals how the US forces captured over 150 innocent civilians, including Al Jazeera journalist Sami al-Hajj and detained them for years at Guantanamo Bay.

[Harlz]

By March 2003, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed had been waterboarded at least 183 times by the CIA.[18][/I]

It also reveals how the US forces captured over 150 innocent civilians, including Al Jazeera journalist Sami al-Hajj and detained them for years at Guantanamo Bay.

USA! USA! USA! US.... oh.

[CallofReach141]

I find this more interesting than the death of Osama. The Guantanamo Bay files leak: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guantanamo_Bay_files_leak#.22Nuclear_hellstorm.22

Another element from the documents cited Khalid Sheikh Mohammed saying that, if Osama Bin Laden was captured or killed by U.S. allies, an Al-Qaeda sleeper cell would detonate a "weapon of mass destruction" in a "secret location" in Europe, and promised it would be "a nuclear hellstorm".[4][17][3] By March 2003, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed had been waterboarded at least 183 times by the CIA.[18]

It also reveals how the US forces captured over 150 innocent civilians, including Al Jazeera journalist Sami al-Hajj and detained them for years at Guantanamo Bay.

Guantanamo Bay is a trailer park compared to some of the undocumented prisons the CIA runs across the globe.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/11/01/AR2005110101644.html

A Washington Post article on CIA rendition.

[F-ck Casey]

http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/hassanbitch/1ZtvR.jpg

It's a shame we never got to see a dossier with United States of America vs. Usama bin Laden.

His body has already been...disposed of, in the traditional Islamic way. Very respectful, although I can't say I'm surprised. Obama made a point to stress that this isn't a war on Islam or the Muslim people. Islamic law states you must be buried as soon as possible after death. Do believe they've already gotten their proof and post-BOOM HEADSHOT pictures, though. It's already floating out there if you're like me and morbidly curious.

Ultimately, yeah, this won't change much. I keep hearing people on TV spouting off the phrase, the only way to kill a snake is to chop off the head. I don't think that applies to terrorist organizations. I think they have plans installed for this. It's curious that everyone is ignoring the fact that a recent WikiLeaks cable (http://articles.nydailynews.com/2011-04-25/news/29492085_1_wikileaks-nuclear-hellstorm-nuclear-bomb) (Monday, infact) spoke of Khalid Shaikh Mohammed claiming there was a bomb in Europe that would unleash "nuclear hellstorm" if Osama was ever captured or killed.

All I know for sure is... SECOND TERM.

EDIT: Agent O already pointed it out, but it bears repeating. I'm sure it's just an idle threat, in response to water boarding and other forms of torture... but what if it isn't? 10 years, 2 wars, 919,967 deaths & $1,188,263,000,000 later, we managed to kill one person. I hope it was worth it.

Oh, and on an amusing side-note... You'll never guess who was one of the first people to know about this. No, not this guy unknowingly tweeting about the assault on bin Laden's compound. (http://twitter.com/ReallyVirtual/) THE ROCK (http://www.badassdigest.com/2011/05/01/the-rock-knew-bin-laden-was-dead-before-anyone-else).

[El Muerto]

So Americans kill bin Laden and they want to unleash a nuclear hellstorm in Europe? Fuck that..

[Harlz]

[QUOTE=Casey;1052416]http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/hassanbitch/1ZtvR.jpg


EDIT: Agent O already pointed it out, but it bears repeating. I'm sure it's just an idle threat, in response to water boarding and other forms of torture... but what if it isn't? 10 years, 2 wars, 919,967 deaths & $1,188,263,000,000 later, we managed to kill one person. I hope it was worth it.



People forget he's been wanted for much more than 10 years...

[travz21]

I can't find those morbid pictures you speak of. All I find is a fake one on 5 million fucking different sites.

[Gloomy Mushroom]

I saw ABC Australia's tweet about John Howard's press conference streaming live. I seriously thought it was a joke until LPA made it serious.

[Blackee Dammet]

Somebody should explain why Muammar Gaddafi (who actually does have oil and lots of it) totally needs to be killed right this second because he bombs rebels that nobody really know much of anything about in his own country, but raping Bin Laden is just DUR HUR U KILL ONE MAN IN CAVE BUT JUS WANT DAT OIL.

Because it sounds like people who have no idea what they're talking about needing to be contrary just to be contrary. The whole "You just killed one person though" shit is pretty funny though.

[CallofReach141]

Somebody should explain why Muammar Gaddafi (who actually does have oil and lots of it) totally needs to be killed right this second because he bombs rebels that nobody really know much of anything about.

Especially when a good number of those rebels are Al-Qaeda operatives themselves.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/libya/8414583/Libya-al-Qaeda-among-Libya-rebels-Nato-chief-fears.html

Al-Qaeda is a CIA concoction, an excuse to invade other countries and a useful pawn for fulfilling imperialist agendas.

[Blackee Dammet]

Don't worry dude, they're only saying that to get DAT OIL!


Even though uh, people want the Libyans overthrown anyway...so the best story would be to... not tell everyone he has al-Qaeda fighting him. Because that would, uh, mean Gaddafi is the better choice and shouldn't be killed or overthrown...


ugh, lying imperialist Yankee is confused and frustrated! Brb, going to spend billions to go kill one man in a cave that just happens to not be in a cave.

[Ryo Hazuki]

Okay. It took 10 years to get one guy. Also now he's a martyr. It still isn't going to get us out of the middle east. But harrah! We. Killed someonethat deserved it atleast. I dislike death but I can se how thisis a good thing but really if not now WHEN is IT going to end? With the threat of retaliation this "fight on terrorism" is just going to miltiply ten fold. Really I know hw people feel and the symbolism but it all needs to come to a conclusion and apparently this time death is not the end.

But horrah?

[Ryo Hazuki]

Sorry for typos and double post. Sent on a phone.

[[TDWP] Jacob]

History. Pretty cool

[Derek The Infamous]

Al-Qaeda is a CIA concoction, an excuse to invade other countries and a useful pawn for fulfilling imperialist agendas.

http://www.popsci.com/files/imagecache/article_image_large/articles/foilhats_400.jpg

[Dean]

http://www.popsci.com/files/imagecache/article_image_large/articles/foilhats_400.jpg
Did Mel Gibson ever wear one of those foil hats in that film? If so, that is the definition of hilarious in hindsight.

[Derek The Infamous]

Did Mel Gibson ever wear one of those foil hats in that film? If so, that is the definition of hilarious in hindsight.

He didn't, unfortunately.

[Blackee Dammet]

I'll go ahead and post this now and save some of you some "HA! I have busted the US's fake Bin laden corpse conspiracy!" posts later.

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2011/5/2/1304329535701/An-image-purporting-to-sh-004.jpg

This particular picture is old and fake.

edit it honestly slipped my mind that the middle man is legitimately dead. I wasn't trying to use this as a sneaky way to post gore again. My bad.

[CallofReach141]

:unsure:

[Blackee Dammet]

My bad.

[Derek The Infamous]

PLEASE LINK TO GRAPHIC PICTURES WITH A NSFW WARNING. We don't have many rules here, but we certainly don't allow graphic/gory pictures to be posted on here without any sort of content warning. I don't care if it's been photoshopped or is fake, it's still highly inappropriate to just post with an IMG tag.

[Niklas]

Here we go...

I'll join you in "America, fuck yeah-ing" when they do something about someone who's still relevant, like Gudafi...

Glad he's dead, but at this point, it's nothing to brag about...

This!

[Derek The Infamous]

I'd consider Bin Laden dying, someone who is not just responsible for 9/11 but several attacks within the last 20 years to be "pretty relevant". Just because he was on the run and no 9/11 type attacks have happened recently, doesn't mean he was any less relevant. To the families who lost loved ones 10 years ago, this is LONG overdue justice.

I want Gaddafi dead as much as the next guy, but for now this is one hell of an achievement.

[ThaHandyman]

I'd consider Bin Laden dying, someone who is not just responsible for 9/11 but several attacks within the last 20 years to be "pretty relevant". Just because he was on the run and no 9/11 type attacks have happened recently, doesn't mean he was any less relevant. To the families who lost loved ones 10 years ago, this is LONG overdue justice.

I want Gaddafi dead as much as the next guy, but for now this is one hell of an achievement.

This here, this is the truth, this.

[Canadian Joe]

I seriously thought it was a joke until LPA made it serious.


Just another awesome service we provide :awesome:

[El Muerto]

I want Gaddafi dead as much as the next guy, but for now this is one hell of an achievement.

Why the fuck do you want Gaddafi dead? Has he ever done anything to you? Do you even know anyone from Libya who can tell you what's going on over there?
God dammit, this type of thinking makes my sick in my stomach..

Some 3000 people died in the WTC and you'r global police has killed ten times as much in the Middle East in the last 10 years. That's one hell of a justice.

[Timothy]

Military-industrial complex, fuck yeah!

[Blackee Dammet]

Some 3000 people died in the WTC and you'r global police has killed ten times as much in the Middle East in the last 10 years. That's one hell of a justice.

http://pix.posterrevolution.com/posters/charlie-sheen-winning-movie-poster-print.jpg

[Derek The Infamous]

Why the fuck do you want Gaddafi dead? Has he ever done anything to you? Do you even know anyone from Libya who can tell you what's going on over there?

No, and do you? Are you a Libyan citizen? Do you have any idea of the atrocities (rape, murder, etc) that are being reported by people who are there first hand? Exactly you don't. So please tell me then where you get off telling me how to think and feel when you aren't a Libyan citizen yourself. Civilian casualties are a product of war. It's unfortunate, and nobody wants to go to war but in these times it's a sad necessity. The fact that Obama went to great lengths to ensure there would be no civilian casualties for this operation, shows that America isn't some country that just runs in and blows everything up with no regard for human life. You need to watch less Team America.

[Canadian Joe]

America isn't some country that just runs in and blows everything up with no regard for human life.

Although I agree with this, a large portion of the world would likely say otherwise.

Something needs to be done - - and soon - - to eliminate this view of America in the eyes of the world, no matter how untruthful it may be.

I can speak first hand about it being a commonly held view by Canadians (although not openly admitted/spoken too much, because of the huge relationship between our two countries).

[El Muerto]

No, and do you? Are you a Libyan citizen? Do you have any idea of the atrocities (rape, murder, etc) that are being reported by people who are there first hand? Exactly you don't. So please tell me then where you get off telling me how to think and feel when you aren't a Libyan citizen yourself. Civilian casualties are a product of war. It's unfortunate, and nobody wants to go to war but in these times it's a sad necessity. The fact that Obama went to great lengths to ensure there would be no civilian casualties for this operation, shows that America isn't some country that just runs in and blows everything up with no regard for human life. You need to watch less Team America.

But the difference is that I don't go around wanting somebody dead if I don't know nothing about it. And fyi, I visited Libya and know a lot of Libyan people and although some of them don't like Gaddafi, they all hate the USA for attacking their country.

Just why was it necessary for the USA to attack Libya? Why didn't they attack Egypt or Tunisia who were in the same situation? Or why didn't Russia do it, or China? I'll tell you why, because Libya has oil. And Afganistan has oil. And Irak does. And Iran does. How can you see not the pattern and talk about a sad necessity of war?

And I don't need Team America to know what such military operations are like, they did the same thing in Serbia in 1999. Clinton wanted to overthrow Milosevic and ended up destroying half of our country and killing hundreds of innocent people. And although we hated Milosevic, we despised America even more. We didn't ask for any help and neither did Libyan people. And as long as people think the way they do, sitting at their home and supporting wars their government wage, other innocent people across the world are going to keep dying. Just be thankful that you've never experienced a war on your doorstep, because if you ever do, your opinion is going to change drastically.

[+ / –]

America isn't some country that just runs in and blows everything up with no regard for human life.

I'm going to have to side with all the non-Americans here. A few points: What a leader intends and what a country does are two completely different things. Wikileaks as proven that time and time again, and as someone who has been directly affected by such intervention, it's hard to say that America DOESN'T do these things.

As backing proof: Cambodia was being run by the Khmer Rouge for a great deal of time. Vietnamese forces along with defectors of the regime attempted to liberate the country from oppression (which you can look up yourself). Guess where the US sided in this conflict? If you said, "the US sided with the oppressive government that thought it'd be a good idea to kill anyone who went to school or looked smart or wore glasses," you'd be correct!

Quite frankly, the US has quite a history of shoving guns and noses into things that aren't their damn concern. Intentions don't mean shit to the people on the ground.

[F-ck Casey]

People forget he's been wanted for much more than 10 years...

America didn't pursue an active worldwide manhunt for Usama bin Laden until 2001. He was on our radar, but obviously that wasn't enough.

And laugh if you will, but the idea that Al-Qaeda just a one big CIA made up excuse to enter into countries we normally couldn't isn't that far off. They're a real terror cell, I believe anyway, but we just happened to have trained and funded them for many, many years. So, in essence... it's our little devil child.

Anyone heard about this "Lone Wolf"?

[deftonesfan867]

Our country is so horrible that people risk their lives to live here...

Don't like it here?

There's the motherfcking door.

[+ / –]

Our country is so horrible that people risk their lives to live here...

Don't like it here?

There's the motherfcking door.

Because my family figured, "to be bombed by the US or to be safe from being bombed by the US?"

No offense, America is great sometimes but it was the lesser of two evils at that point.

[Dean]

Our country is so horrible that people risk their lives to live here...

Don't like it here?

There's the motherfcking door.
What does this have to do with anything?

[travz21]

I don't think his death will even change anything. It's just a morale booster for this pathetic country we live in.

[El Muerto]

Our country is so horrible that people risk their lives to live here...

Don't like it here?

There's the motherfcking door.

Wow, is that the famous American democracy?

[Timothy]

Our country is so horrible that people risk their lives to live here...

Don't like it here?

There's the motherfcking door.

How do you know they don't like it here? Liking a country and criticizing its government's foreign policies aren't mutually exclusive.

[Dean]

I don't think his death will even change anything. It's just a morale booster for this pathetic country we live in.
YOU SAID A BAD THING ABOUT AMERICA! GET OUT! GET OUT! GET OUT!

[deftonesfan867]

I know this country isn't always in the right, and our government, as most governments do, make alot of mistakes.

What does it have to do with anything?

The people on here pissing and moaning about why should they care that our military took down the most wanted man in the world.

Seriously...does it even have to be a question?

Sure it doesn't mean terrorism will stop, but god damn people get so caught up in the semantics of it all that they never stop back and think to themselves "I'm able to post on here about whatever I feel like because of the forces at work that took care of this guy."

[Jeff]

Wow this thread has really gotten out of hand. :blink:

[deftonesfan867]

YOU SAID A BAD THING ABOUT AMERICA! GET OUT! GET OUT! GET OUT!

Right...because I said people aren't allowed to voice their opinions....

[El Muerto]

I know this country isn't always in the right, and our government, as most governments do, make alot of mistakes.

What does it have to do with anything?

The people on here pissing and moaning about why should they care that our military took down the most wanted man in the world.

Seriously...does it even have to be a question?

Sure it doesn't mean terrorism will stop, but god damn people get so caught up in the semantics of it all that they never stop back and think to themselves "I'm able to post on here about whatever I feel like because of the forces at work that took care of this guy."

Yeah but when 99% of other countries make mistakes civilians don't die, it has to do with that.

And it's a bit hypocritical to consider him the most wanted man in the world after just one terrorist attack on the US soil, when there have been dozens of them before 9/11 and you didn't give a shit about it.

[deftonesfan867]

Yeah but when 99% of other countries make mistakes civilians don't die, it has to do with that.

And it's a bit hypocritical to consider him the most wanted man in the world after just one terrorist attack on the US soil, when there have been dozens of them before 9/11 and you didn't give a shit about it.

Thanks for assuming that I only care about my backyard vs. my fellow man.

[+ / –]

Right...because I said people aren't allowed to voice their opinions....

The thing that got me was that without context, it looked like my family history of being screwed over by the US supporting genocide in my country was being criticized by you saying that if I don't like it, "There's the motherfucking door."

[deftonesfan867]

The thing that got me was that without context, it looked like my family history of being screwed over by the US supporting genocide in my country was being criticized by you saying that if I don't like it, "There's the motherfucking door."

Simple generalization made via a knee jerk reaction by myself.

My apologies.

[Derek The Infamous]

Wow, is that the famous American democracy?

The ideas of one bullheaded American (sorry deftones, but your post was rather ignorant) does not reflect the views of the rest of America. Please stop grouping this country into a stereotype. I'm greatly sorry for what happened to Serbia (it should have never happened the way it did), and I'm very sorry Minus for what happened to your family, but that doesn't mean that every single president or administration in this country follows the same mindset. I find it quite disheartening that America has gotten the reputation it has abroad, and it's things like what you said above that give it that reputation. Just because Bush/Clinton were horrible presidents, doesn't mean it's how America as a whole thinks.

[+ / –]

On the contrary, Clinton ran the country pretty damn well in terms of money.

[deftonesfan867]

On the contrary, Clinton ran the country pretty damn well in terms of money.

That he did.

Sadly most people will remember him for his affair vs. his contributions to our economy.

[CallofReach141]

Stumbled across something interesting on the web. Just thought I could share it.

http://polidics.com/cia/top-ranking-cia-operatives-admit-al-qaeda-is-a-complete-fabrication.html

[+ / –]

Stumbled across something interesting on the web. Just thought I could share it.

http://polidics.com/cia/top-ranking-cia-operatives-admit-al-qaeda-is-a-complete-fabrication.html

Considering this site also claims Obama's long-form birth certificate is fake, I'll take this as seriously as a sane person takes Donald Trump seriously.

[deftonesfan867]

Reports are saying this is the unit that took him down.

http://www.history.com/news/2011/05/02/the-secret-unit-that-killed-bin-laden/

[CallofReach141]

Reports are saying this is the unit that took him down.

http://www.history.com/news/2011/05/02/the-secret-unit-that-killed-bin-laden/

US Navy SEALS and CIA Special Activities Division.

[Blackee Dammet]

But the difference is that I don't go around wanting somebody dead if I don't know nothing about it. And fyi, I visited Libya and know a lot of Libyan people and although some of them don't like Gaddafi, they all hate the USA for attacking their country.

You've visited Libya since since the civil war, or you visited Libya a while before? Because I'd imagine there'd be a slight difference in the "Don't like Gaddafi but really really really fucking hate you" argument.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm sure like 90% of them still sincerely do hate 'Murika, but it's good to keep the whole before/currently thing in mind.


Just why was it necessary for the USA to attack Libya? Why didn't they attack Egypt or Tunisia who were in the same situation?

Egypt has wasn't firing rockets on people, for one. The Tunsia revolution killed around 300 people, the Libyan civil war has killed around ten times as many.


Or why didn't Russia do it, or China?

Russian and China have problems with Islamic extremists in a closer proximity to them than Americas, and would risk a bigger response by getting involved. And frankly, despite the big scary economic giant China is/is supposed to be I'm pretty sure they're not always entirely upfront with that whole "advanced first world military" (http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_thecutline/20110131/ts_yblog_thecutline/chinese-air-force-drill-looks-awfully-similar-to-top-gun) as they'd want us fat American pigdogs believing.

Hey, here's one; why did France of all place want to bomb Libya before America? Why did France push for Obama to take military action? I'm only left to assume Sarkozy doesn't actually exist, and is a U.S. concoction so they can go take oil.


I'll tell you why, because Libya has oil. And Afganistan has oil. And Irak does. And Iran does. How can you see not the pattern and talk about a sad necessity of war?

Now see that'd make sense, except Afghanistan actually doesn't have much oil. There's an insistence that the US has plans to build pipelines that will take oil from surrounding countries in the north, and they're porbably all true, but I have a feeling you had no idea about that and just knew it was "OILOILOILOILOILOIL". That sweet sweet opium market, on the other hand...



And I don't need Team America to know what such military operations are like, they did the same thing in Serbia in 1999. Clinton wanted to overthrow Milosevic and ended up destroying half of our country and killing hundreds of innocent people. And although we hated Milosevic, we despised America even more. We didn't ask for any help and neither did Libyan people. And as long as people think the way they do, sitting at their home and supporting wars their government wage, other innocent people across the world are going to keep dying. Just be thankful that you've never experienced a war on your doorstep, because if you ever do, your opinion is going to change drastically.

Now, when ethnic cleansing (at best) or genocide (at worst) isn't enough of a reason to overthrow somebody, when is?


We didn't ask for any help and neither did Libyan people.

Man this is going to piss you off but... Serbia was sort of the aggressor in a lot of those Yugoslavia wars. Clinton didn't overthrow Milosevic to liberate Serbians, Clinton bombed Milosevic to make him cut the shit.


Wow, is that the famous American democracy?

No, no it's not. In fact, someone telling you to fuck off, while a total dick move, has nothing to do with democracy at all.

[El Muerto]

Man this is going to piss you off but... Serbia was sort of the aggressor in a lot of those Yugoslavia wars. Clinton didn't overthrow Milosevic to liberate Serbians, Clinton bombed Milosevic to make him cut the shit.


I know that's been the general opinion in the western world for the last 15 years, but the court for Yugoslav wars in Den Haag decided a couple of days ago that the Croatian military action was a criminal act and that they committed genocide too, so I guess the real picture is starting to form after all. And the Balkans have been a complex area forever, we're all living next to each other and we've been waging wars here for the last 1300 years, so whatever happened here cannot be worse than a country travelling across the globe and starting wars wherever they feel like it.

And don't even get me started with Kosovo, just imagine what would US do if illegal Mexican immigrants suddenly became a majority in any of their states, forced the Americans out and wanted to declare the state independent.

[BlackedOut]

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-0503-bin-laden-new-york-20110503,0,64196.story

Well Some people still aren't happy.

[minuteforce]

Everybody's done something wrong. ;"

To state what I think is obvious, Osama bin Laden's death won't affect the 'war' very heavily. In that context, it's quite meaningless now

[Benjamin]

But it doesn't hurt for the U.S. to enjoy this for a while. Despite how meaningless it might be, it's still a big event.

And it couldn't have come at a better time. Surely this may help Obama get re-elected.

[Harlz]

And it couldn't have come at a better time. Surely this may help Obama get re-elected.

Ah. You've hit the nail on the head there... ;)

[Louis]

But it doesn't hurt for the U.S. to enjoy this for a while. Despite how meaningless it might be, it's still a big event.

And it couldn't have come at a better time. Surely this may help Obama get re-elected.

A lot of people are saying that with the timing of the event and how the President phrased it in his announcement soon after, this probably reassured him the second term. Without a doubt, this will help. I can't actually see how this hurts him. For the most wanted man to be taken care of during your administration is a big deal, and considering that this man was behind the 9/11 Terrorist Attacks, I can't see why people wouldn't consider this when deciding whether or not to reelect him in 2012.

[Gloomy Mushroom]

It was exciting news for about the first two minutes of the breaking story of Bin Laden's death. Then the rest was America gloating over the "victory" over terrorism and its turned into a pro-Obama election campaign. Now, they really have no excuse to be in the Middle East if Bin Laden's dead and Hussein's been executed. But I don't think this event alone will lower America's ego about the War in the Middle East. As much as I think it was justified, I think even more about how selfish it was. Yes, I'm with El Meurto in this situation, severely, and that opinion has come after talking to him in several threads about the American involvement in the Middle East, so I think @BlackeeDammit if you haven't gotten the Americans on your doorstep and seen what he's been through, I would be quiet all together. But I'm not telling you what to do.

[Timothy]

Stolen from another forum: Bin Laden - Hide and Seek Champion 2001-2011

[deftonesfan867]

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a78/nursetpd/Misc/Osama_Bin_Laden_Dead.gif

[Dean]

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a78/nursetpd/Misc/Osama_Bin_Laden_Dead.gif
That reminds me of the start of Back to the Future 3 haha

[Gloomy Mushroom]

That reminds me of the start of Back to the Future 3 haha

I couldn't agree more :lol:

[deftonesfan867]

I can see the resemblance.

:lol:

[Super Sonic]

Stolen from another forum: Bin Laden - Hide and Seek Champion 2001-2011

:lol:

[Blackee Dammet]

I think @BlackeeDammit if you haven't gotten the Americans on your doorstep and seen what he's been through, I would be quiet all together. But I'm not telling you what to do.

Oh I'm sure being bombed isn't exactly the most pleasant of experiences, but the "Americans just rape and loot everything and I would know" rebuttal glosses over quite a bit of what happened in Yugoslavia. I'm sure many a Bosnian might have different interpretation of "fat ugly American imperialist meddling", or does that not count because it wasn't someone thousands of miles away declaring the war?

Nobody's insisting it was any worse than W. pillaging Iraq, but that's an awfully big detail to casually neglect to mention.
----
On another note, I want someone to explain when exactly it wouldn't have been 'convenient' to kill Bin Laden. Anyone, at any time, would of course gotten a huge surge of popularity killing or capturing him.

[El Muerto]

I'm not gonna continue the debate on Yugoslav wars here since that's not the topic, I just wanted to let you know that that's not my quote.

[Blackee Dammet]

It was quite a bastardization of your point, true, but given you didn't acknowledge my rebuttal about whenever you met anti-Gaddafi Libyans (since many would naturally have a different opinion of Gaddafi V. Americans after the civil war than they would in the 80's or 90's), the French involvement/instigation, the Afghan oil accusation, or the circumstances behind the (admitted questionably legal) bombings in the Balkans, I found myself entitled to a bit of hyperbole.

[Agent O]

Just got done reading an extremely well thought out and long article written by Immortal Technique regarding this whole issue. Whether you agree with him or not, I'd suggest everyone to give it a read: The Legacy of Bin Laden (http://www.xxlmag.com/features/2011/05/the-legacy-of-bin-laden-by-immortal-technique/)

[El Muerto]

It was quite a bastardization of your point, true, but given you didn't acknowledge my rebuttal about whenever you met anti-Gaddafi Libyans (since many would naturally have a different opinion of Gaddafi V. Americans after the civil war than they would in the 80's or 90's), the French involvement/instigation, the Afghan oil accusation, or the circumstances behind the (admitted questionably legal) bombings in the Balkans, I found myself entitled to a bit of hyperbole.

Your post was a bit too long and I didn't have time to answer everything. I don't have time now either but I'll sum it up:

- Libyan people are divided on whether they support Gaddafi, but but they've been hating America for a long time because this is not the first time Americans are poking their nose in Libya's own business.
- French government with that clown Sarkozy are basically just a bunch of ass-kissers. Their country is in deep shit but they only care about getting a pat on the back from Obama.
- I know about the proposed pipelines, it's still all about oil
- I explained the circumstances, the Albanian terrorists occupied a part of our country and we fought them. But I guess that in the eyes of the US, Bin Laden is a terrorist and Hashim Thaci is a freedom fighter. And it was unquestionably illegal, with the start of that bombing, the UN ceased to have any real role in the world whatsoever.

[Benjamin]

I definitely am struggling to see why there's any point in being Afghanistan any more. But we were already taking out troops anyways so at least there's that. Though, maybe they can pull them out a little faster now.

...let's just get the hell out of the middle east, ok America? :lol:

[Canadian Joe]

I definitely am struggling to see why there's any point in being Afghanistan any more. But we were already taking out troops anyways so at least there's that. Though, maybe they can pull them out a little faster now.

...let's just get the hell out of the middle east, ok America? :lol:

It's mostly our boys in Afghanistan these days.

Lots of Canadian casualties over the last few years there.

[Agent O]

I definitely am struggling to see why there's any point in being Afghanistan any more. But we were already taking out troops anyways so at least there's that. Though, maybe they can pull them out a little faster now.

...let's just get the hell out of the middle east, ok America? :lol:

Hah.

US says bin Laden's death does not end Afghan war (http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2014934494_apasafghanbinladen.html).

[Benjamin]

Hah.

US says bin Laden's death does not end Afghan war (http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2014934494_apasafghanbinladen.html).

:FUUUUUU:

[Avo]

Hah.

US says bin Laden's death does not end Afghan war (http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2014934494_apasafghanbinladen.html).
Cannot say I'm shocked lol.

[[TDWP] Jacob]

Hah.

US says bin Laden's death does not end Afghan war (http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2014934494_apasafghanbinladen.html).

Well no shit.

[CallofReach141]

I definitely am struggling to see why there's any point in being Afghanistan any more. But we were already taking out troops anyways so at least there's that. Though, maybe they can pull them out a little faster now.

...let's just get the hell out of the middle east, ok America? :lol:

Actually, the US has 30,000 Marines headed to the Stan'. They are only pulling some troops out of Iraq but the Afghan War is escalating. The Taliban have just promised revenge for Bin Laden's death.

[Benjamin]

Actually, the US has 30,000 Marines headed to the Stan'. They are only pulling some troops out of Iraq but the Afghan War is escalating. The Taliban have just promised revenge for Bin Laden's death.

No, I heard that troops supposedly will be just about gone by 2014.

[Harlz]

Gotta get that oil pipeline through!

[Agent O]

The head of the CIA admitted yesterday that there was no live video footage of the raid on Osama bin Laden's compound (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/al-qaeda/8493391/Osama-bin-Laden-dead-Blackout-during-raid-on-bin-Laden-compound.html)

This whole thing reeks of bullshit! When will people start realizing that? They are being contradicted by their own people. Smh.

[Todd]

The head of the CIA admitted yesterday that there was no live video footage of the raid on Osama bin Laden's compound (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/al-qaeda/8493391/Osama-bin-Laden-dead-Blackout-during-raid-on-bin-Laden-compound.html)

This whole thing reeks of bullshit! When will people start realizing that? They are being contradicted by their own people. Smh.

If Bin Laden was really alive, he would've already released a video of him holding a newspaper with the headline "Bin Laden Dead!" on it. It would be a huge embarrassment for us and a huge win for them. The fact that Al Qaeda has been silent is proof that Osama's dead.

[Gloomy Mushroom]

Has anyone acknowledged or even mention that the man that ran the US for quite some years who "fought terrorism", was indeed nothing less of a tyrant himself? The integrity of having a Bush family member run your country wasn't questionable, there was none at the beginning. I really do feel for the victims of 9/11 and like I said to the chat box viewers at the time, I'm not condoning the attacks in any way, but how would the American government like it if we celebrated the death of President Bush if he died? What he did, and the American government has done in the past were horrid and misleaded actions (IE Vietnam). I mean, was there a reason why statistically an American soldier died on an average of everyday in Afghanistan?

I would like to see ANYONE justify the American involvement in Vietnam, I really would. People complain that these people, these Middle Easterns were horrible to the Americans and everyone was playing the hate game. You wonder why certain people like the Vietnamese, Cambodians and the Middle Easterns hate Americans or have in the past? Look at the damage their army leaves behind and look at the people involved in the decision making!


US says bin Laden's death does not end Afghan war.

Typical. They continued to fight in Vietnam AFTER Ho Chin Minh had died from natural causes, even though he was one of the reasons they were there to begin with.


- Libyan people are divided on whether they support Gaddafi.

Saying otherwise is like saying everyone in the Middle East supports terrorism. It's a big generalisation saying that "you're from x so you support terrorism!". Wow, and that same race can go in retaliation "hey, you're white, you don't like black people who live in your country!"



It was quite a bastardization of your point, true, but given you didn't acknowledge my rebuttal about whenever you met anti-Gaddafi Libyans (since many would naturally have a different opinion of Gaddafi V. Americans after the civil war than they would in the 80's or 90's), the French involvement/instigation, the Afghan oil accusation, or the circumstances behind the (admitted questionably legal) bombings in the Balkans, I found myself entitled to a bit of hyperbole.

It was a really bad attempt at a bastardization if that be the case seeing how we're completely two different people on two different continents with two different opinions.

[El Muerto]

If Bin Laden was really alive, he would've already released a video of him holding a newspaper with the headline "Bin Laden Dead!" on it. It would be a huge embarrassment for us and a huge win for them. The fact that Al Qaeda has been silent is proof that Osama's dead.

Yeah I agree, that would be an enormous risk, and Obama would probably have to resign if Osama turned out to be alive.

[Dean]

I would like to see ANYONE justify the American involvement in Vietnam, I really would.
cUfvgHFh9CY

[Harlz]

If Bin Laden was really alive, he would've already released a video of him holding a newspaper with the headline "Bin Laden Dead!" on it. It would be a huge embarrassment for us and a huge win for them. The fact that Al Qaeda has been silent is proof that Osama's dead.

Well let's see.
There was never any firefight
Osama never used his wife as a shield.
There was never any live footage, despite the suggestion that that very concerned looking Obama in the photo was watching it live.
They decided to respect muslim tradition and dump him in the sea this time hey? Why was it that with Saddam Hussein they went as far as showing naked pictures of him while he was alive, and released photos after he was executed, and his sons were paraded around Bagdhad after they were killed.
Somehow I don't believe that the US military has had a huge change of heart and now honours the wishes of those they execute.

Osama has been dead for years. The bloke was on dialysis 15 years ago, that isn't the kind of thing you can maintain while on the run from Team America.

[+ / –]

Somehow I don't believe that the US military has had a huge change of heart and now honours the wishes of those they execute.

You'd think that, but a lot can change in the same group of soldiers under different leadership. Just look at the change in the Union Army during the Civil War. The same soldiers in the Union Army go from futile efforts in Fredicksburg, to pathetically losing to an army half its size in Chancellorsville, to the determined grit of Gettysburg.

[Timothy]

Well let's see.
There was never any firefight
Osama never used his wife as a shield.
There was never any live footage, despite the suggestion that that very concerned looking Obama in the photo was watching it live.
They decided to respect muslim tradition and dump him in the sea this time hey? Why was it that with Saddam Hussein they went as far as showing naked pictures of him while he was alive, and released photos after he was executed, and his sons were paraded around Bagdhad after they were killed.
Somehow I don't believe that the US military has had a huge change of heart and now honours the wishes of those they execute.

Osama has been dead for years. The bloke was on dialysis 15 years ago, that isn't the kind of thing you can maintain while on the run from Team America.

Different leadership, learning from past mistakes, etc.

As for Bin Laden's alleged dialysis: http://healthland.time.com/2011/05/03/osama-bin-laden-did-not-have-kidney-failure/

[Blackee Dammet]

I just realized what the two of you were bitching about and am unsure of why El Muerto's name appeared under Castiel's quote (I'm not sure why I saw EM's post as 'not my point' before).

Regardless, I knew who said what and stand by "Whenever the Americans bomb something it's imperialism and when we did it it was different" is a bad argument. I think both of you knew what I was getting at though.

[CallofReach141]

Has anyone acknowledged or even mention that the man that ran the US for quite some years who "fought terrorism", was indeed nothing less of a tyrant himself? The integrity of having a Bush family member run your country wasn't questionable, there was none at the beginning. I really do feel for the victims of 9/11 and like I said to the chat box viewers at the time, I'm not condoning the attacks in any way, but how would the American government like it if we celebrated the death of President Bush if he died? What he did, and the American government has done in the past were horrid and misleaded actions (IE Vietnam). I mean, was there a reason why statistically an American soldier died on an average of everyday in Afghanistan?

I would like to see ANYONE justify the American involvement in Vietnam, I really would. People complain that these people, these Middle Easterns were horrible to the Americans and everyone was playing the hate game. You wonder why certain people like the Vietnamese, Cambodians and the Middle Easterns hate Americans or have in the past? Look at the damage their army leaves behind and look at the people involved in the decision making!



Typical. They continued to fight in Vietnam AFTER Ho Chin Minh had died from natural causes, even though he was one of the reasons they were there to begin with.



Saying otherwise is like saying everyone in the Middle East supports terrorism. It's a big generalisation saying that "you're from x so you support terrorism!". Wow, and that same race can go in retaliation "hey, you're white, you don't like black people who live in your country!"




It was a really bad attempt at a bastardization if that be the case seeing how we're completely two different people on two different continents with two different opinions.

Exactly. George W. Bush had a lot of ties to the Saudi Royal Family and associations with the Bin-Laden family. George W. Bush directly turned down a request by the US Army's Special Forces Detachment Delta to apprehend Bin Laden during the battle of Tora Bora. It's safe to say that the Bush administration benefited largely from the "War on Terror". Think about it, if OBL had been apprehended right there, they wouldn't have had any excuse to push it pursue it further.

[El Muerto]

He was killed because he was camping at spawn :lol:




Regardless, I knew who said what and stand by "Whenever the Americans bomb something it's imperialism and when we did it it was different" is a bad argument. I think both of you knew what I was getting at though.

Of course it's different. Forget about Yugoslav wars, take Israel and Palestina for example. Regardless of who you support in that conflict, they all live together and are both fighting because the lives of their own people are at stake and their territory is at stake. And although I don't support wars of any kind, such wars and conflicts are far more justified that wars for profit.

[Gloomy Mushroom]

Exactly. George W. Bush had a lot of ties to the Saudi Royal Family and associations with the Bin-Laden family. George W. Bush directly turned down a request by the US Army's Special Forces Detachment Delta to apprehend Bin Laden during the battle of Tora Bora. It's safe to say that the Bush administration benefited largely from the "War on Terror". Think about it, if OBL had been apprehended right there, they wouldn't have had any excuse to push it pursue it further.

Again, it wasn't a War on Terror it was a War on Oil. George Bush Snr broke a deal with the Bin Laden family and the Saudi Royal Family concerning the pumping and distribution of oil and it is fair to say that he backstabbed them both. So even before his son was the next coming President of the US, America was screwed thanks to the dodgy dealings of George Bush Snr.

[Dean]

I think I might just be confusing the point people are making, but I don't know how the Bushes being friendly with the Bin Ladens could have helped or how they were betrayed here. Osama hadn't had anything to do with the rest of them for quite a while as far as I know.

[Tom]

Who woulda thunk the Janitor to be right?

3bMxEgzeloA

[CallofReach141]

Just read a captivating post by the Vigilant Citizen on the whole issue. Definitely worth a read.

http://vigilantcitizen.com/vigilantreport/binladen-mayfirst/

[Benjamin]

Just read a captivating post by the Vigilant Citizen on the whole issue. Definitely worth a read.

http://vigilantcitizen.com/vigilantreport/binladen-mayfirst/

No comment

[El Muerto]

Just read a captivating post by the Vigilant Citizen on the whole issue. Definitely worth a read.

http://vigilantcitizen.com/vigilantreport/binladen-mayfirst/

Great article, and the best thing is it's true.

[Benjamin]

Just so we're clear, you guys think Bin Laden wasn't behind 9/11 and that he wasn't actually killed on May 1st?

Come on now.

[El Muerto]

Just so we're clear, you guys think Bin Laden wasn't behind 9/11 and that he wasn't actually killed on May 1st?

Come on now.

You think that they really couldn't find a single guy with all the modern technology for 10 years?

Come on now.

Just so we're clear, I think America killed its own citizens to justify going to Middle East.

[CallofReach141]

Just so we're clear, you guys think Bin Laden wasn't behind 9/11 and that he wasn't actually killed on May 1st?

Come on now.

Not saying it's true, just wanted to see what you guys thought.

[Benjamin]

You think that they really couldn't find a single guy with all the modern technology for 10 years?

Come on now.

Just so we're clear, I think America killed its own citizens to justify going to Middle East.

I think believing that it took them 10 years to find Bin Laden is much more plausible than thinking the president of the United States murdering 3000 of his own citizens just so he could go to the Middle East.

There are countless ways in which a president can convince a nation to go to war. Not even someone who's dumb as George Bush would do that by killing his people and in the process taking down one of America's most known landmarks. For the hell of it, let's just say you're right. Why did Bush send 4 different planes? Wouldn't one plane into the World Trade Center been enough? Hell, he could have just fabricated an apparent attack rather than actually letting one happen. And what president would want an event like 9/11 happen to his administration? Thanks to 9/11, Bush will go down as one of our worst presidents. It makes no sense why he would do such a thing.

Come on now.


Not saying it's true, just wanted to see what you guys thought.

You called it 'captivating.' That's the best way of saying "I agree with this" other than saying "I agree with this."

[travz21]

It's all about the benjamins.

[CallofReach141]

You called it 'captivating.' That's the best way of saying "I agree with this" other than saying "I agree with this."

Agreeing with something is not a requirement for being fascinated by it. Maybe I didn't use the right word.

[Timothy]

You think that they really couldn't find a single guy with all the modern technology for 10 years?

Come on now.

Just so we're clear, I think America killed its own citizens to justify going to Middle East.

I think you're giving the U.S. government way too much credit.

[Blackee Dammet]

I find it hilarious most of you don't even consider Pakistan had been tipping off Bin Laden for years.

Bush orchestrated mass murder of U.S. citizens, covered it up damn near flawlessly, paid off the thousands who would have to have been in on it with so much money to not uncover it and become national heroes for the rest of history, to start a war (again, this was the only reason 9/11 happened) and then...... not even tried half as hard on that warfor which the entire plan was hatched for = totally happened

Some ISI shot Bin Laden a "Hey, them 'mericans getting pretty close to you. Thought I'd let you know" text for years? Nah, Couldn't have happened. Had to have been that whole mass conspiracy thing.

Also i wonder if El Muerto buys this load too; Lady Gaga’s “Born This Way” – The Illuminati Manifesto (http://vigilantcitizen.com/musicbusiness/lady-gagas-born-this-way-the-illuminati-manifesto/)

[CallofReach141]

Also i wonder if El Muerto buys this load too; Lady Gaga’s “Born This Way” – The Illuminati Manifesto (http://vigilantcitizen.com/musicbusiness/lady-gagas-born-this-way-the-illuminati-manifesto/)

:lol:

[Benjamin]

I definitely think there's a possibility that Pakistan tipped him off/helped him out.

But, for me anyways, they're innocent until proven guilty.

[Blackee Dammet]

It's a case of what's more likely;

Hundreds of people engineering the mass murdering thousands and not a single one ever coming forward to all the fame and eternal glory that would come with blowing the lid off of the conspiracy which itself was hatched "to go into the Middle East" (no matter that the US has been in the Middle East for decades before), and then when they got their war (which, follow along, was the only reason for 9/11 at all), they sent in half as many troops as the military dictated needed for their to be complete control, and didn't steal enough oil to prevent a recession, rendering the entire thing pointless.

or

"hey b-lad them yanks comin best gtfo- ur nigga fasel"

never mind the fact everyone keeps doing the WAI U NO FIND MAN IN CAVE?!? and has casually neglected the whole 'wasn't in a cave and was actually in a fort beside a military academy' thing.

[Dean]

If they hoaxed a massive terrorist attack, why didn't they hoax finding Bin Laden earlier and actually finding nuclear weapons in Iraq in the first place?

That, and how were the Bush administration supposed to be incompetent at pretty much everything other than massive conspiracies?

Even the basic logic of it fails.

[Benjamin]

I also want to say that I fully support the president's decision to not release the photos of Bin Laden. There's no need for it and I can definitely see how it could be used as a propaganda tool.

[El Muerto]

I find it hilarious most of you don't even consider Pakistan had been tipping off Bin Laden for years.

Bush orchestrated mass murder of U.S. citizens, covered it up damn near flawlessly, paid off the thousands who would have to have been in on it with so much money to not uncover it and become national heroes for the rest of history, to start a war (again, this was the only reason 9/11 happened) and then...... not even tried half as hard on that warfor which the entire plan was hatched for = totally happened

Some ISI shot Bin Laden a "Hey, them 'mericans getting pretty close to you. Thought I'd let you know" text for years? Nah, Couldn't have happened. Had to have been that whole mass conspiracy thing.

Also i wonder if El Muerto buys this load too; Lady Gaga’s “Born This Way” – The Illuminati Manifesto (http://vigilantcitizen.com/musicbusiness/lady-gagas-born-this-way-the-illuminati-manifesto/)

Wow, your imagination is running wild. Thousands of people involved in the conspiracy? More like a handful of people. I didn't say Al Quaeda didn't fly those planes into the buildings, but that somebody from the US gave a green light for the entire thing. And if you think that the president of any country is the most powerful person in the country and the one who gives all the orders, then I'd say you're pretty naive.

But it's ok, I guess you're pretty comfortable in your own world where everything is black and white, your country is a hero and the evil terrorist destroy your buildings and kill your people for no reason.

Btw, you tried to provoke me once with that bitching comment, this lady gaga stuff is the second strike. I'm gonna respond the next time to you bullshit.

[Blackee Dammet]

Thousands of people involved in the conspiracy? More like a handful of people....you're pretty naive.

All i need to see.


But it's ok, I guess you're pretty comfortable in your own world where everything is black and white, your country is a hero and the evil terrorist destroy your buildings and kill your people for no reason.

How are you getting that? I never said they didn't attack "for no reason". I just said one version of events was way less retarded than the other. Namely, Bin Laden has supporters worldwide, some of those supporters had contact with him in Pakistan, and a few of them let him when his enemies got too close. How is that 'black and white hero 'murika vs psycho brown man' fantasy?



Btw, you tried to provoke me once with that bitching comment, this lady gaga stuff is the second strike. I'm gonna respond the next time to you bullshit.


Explain why is the Bin Laden stuff true and the Lady Gag stuff bullshit one the exact same site.

Strike 3. Go.

[Benjamin]

What's your motivation for making the acquisitions that you're making? What evidence do you have to say someone gave Al Quaeda the green light?

I would say you're the one who's imagination is running wild.

[Timothy]

Wow, your imagination is running wild. Thousands of people involved in the conspiracy? More like a handful of people. I didn't say Al Quaeda didn't fly those planes into the buildings, but that somebody from the US gave a green light for the entire thing. And if you think that the president of any country is the most powerful person in the country and the one who gives all the orders, then I'd say you're pretty naive.

But it's ok, I guess you're pretty comfortable in your own world where everything is black and white, your country is a hero and the evil terrorist destroy your buildings and kill your people for no reason.

Btw, you tried to provoke me once with that bitching comment, this lady gaga stuff is the second strike. I'm gonna respond the next time to you bullshit.

To be fair, you did say "America killed its own citizens," which is easy to misconstrue.

@Dean: That's pretty much the way I see it.

[Blackee Dammet]

For someone who's trying to argue "America oppresses fucking everyone and they in turn hate you with a fiery passion for it", I'm having a hard time understanding Muertos disbelief in some of those people banding together and flying planes into shit. Just because I'm happy the man is dead doesn't necessarily mean I can't comprehend what he did or why people would back him.

I do, however, like that my position apparently became USA #1 DIRTY A-RAB SCUM WE'RE COMING FOR YOU WITH US OR AGAINST US FREEDOM FRIES though. That's pretty cool.

[CallofReach141]

It's not unusual for a government to engage in false flag attacks to justify war, it has certainly happened before. Robert McNamara said publicly that the "Gulf of Tonkin" incident never happened. After 58,000 soldiers had died in the Vietnam war which was started for that same reason.

There was a declassified CIA document released to the public a while back called "Operation Northwoods". They designed false flag attacks to use as rationale for attacking other countries, specifically Cuba.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods

[Timothy]

It's not unusual for a government to engage in false flag attacks to justify war, it has certainly happened before. Robert McNamara said publicly that the "Gulf of Tonkin" incident never happened. After 58,000 soldiers had died in the Vietnam war which was started for that same reason.

There was a declassified CIA document released to the public a while back called "Operation Northwoods". They designed false flag attacks to use as rationale for attacking other countries, specifically Cuba.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods

It's not unusual at all. But it's also not unusual for strong evidence (like official documents) to get out to the public. The U.S. government is leakier than a faucet. Whether it's Watergate or any of the C.I.A's abhorrent activities, the big wigs don't do a great job of keeping these things under wraps. So where's the smoking gun for this supposed 9/11 inside job? Where's the irrefutable evidence? Where's the Wikileaks cable implicating some high-ranking U.S. official? Something with substance? Anything?

[Benjamin]

It's not unusual for a government to engage in false flag attacks to justify war, it has certainly happened before. Robert McNamara said publicly that the "Gulf of Tonkin" incident never happened. After 58,000 soldiers had died in the Vietnam war which was started for that same reason.

There was a declassified CIA document released to the public a while back called "Operation Northwoods". They designed false flag attacks to use as rationale for attacking other countries, specifically Cuba.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods

Neither of those examples are the same as what you're eluding to possibly happening with 9/11. There's just no way a U.S. president told terrorists to attack his country. Read Dean's post above. Even the simple logic of it wouldn't add up.

I realize that you're not saying 9/11 was definitely a conspiracy, but even flirting with that idea is just fucked up. I'm sorry.

[Blackee Dammet]

For what it's worth, I won't say government officials would never kill citizens to get what it wanted, it just didn't happen that time.

Taking advantage of dead civilians to do what it wanted to anyway, definitely. Outright killed them in order to do it, less likely. Especially the thousands of easier ways to go about the same objective.

[El Muerto]

For what it's worth, I won't say government officials would never kill citizens to get what it wanted, it just didn't happen that time.

Taking advantage of dead civilians to do what it wanted to anyway, definitely. Outright killed them in order to do it, less likely. Especially the thousands of easier ways to go about the same objective.


I can't say I'm certain it was an inside job, but.. Alongside Russia, USA is the most powerful country in the world in every sense, and especially in the field of intelligence networks, spies etc. I just don't believe Al Quada could've pulled off something of that magnitude all on their own, without somebody from CIA or whatever finding about it..

[CallofReach141]

Where's the Wikileaks cable implicating some high-ranking U.S. official? Something with substance? Anything?

World Trade Center 7. While it is very evident the Twin Towers were hit by planes. WTC 7 wasn't. It seems that building just fell down for no apparent reason despite its distance from the site of the first crash. It's a tad suspicious if you ask me.

[CallofReach141]

Where's the Wikileaks cable implicating some high-ranking U.S. official? Something with substance? Anything?

World Trade Center 7. While it is very evident the Twin Towers were hit by planes. WTC 7 wasn't. It seems that building just fell down for no apparent reason despite its distance from the site of the first crash. It's a tad suspicious if you ask me :unsure:.

[Dean]

World Trade Center 7. While it is very evident the Twin Towers were hit by planes. WTC 7 wasn't. It seems that building just fell down for no apparent reason despite its distance from the site of the first crash. It's a tad suspicious if you ask me :unsure:.
Structural damage caused by debris, right?

[Benjamin]

I can't say I'm certain it was an inside job, but.. Alongside Russia, USA is the most powerful country in the world in every sense, and especially in the field of intelligence networks, spies etc. I just don't believe Al Quada could've pulled off something of that magnitude all on their own, without somebody from CIA or whatever finding about it..

Why is it so hard to believe? Terrorist flies to America, goes to airport and takes a gun (or knife, whatever they used) with him, gets on the plain, and takes over the cock pit. At that point it was just a matter of knowing how to navigate a plane.

It all happened because of the shitty airport security that America had.

[El Muerto]

Why is it so hard to believe? Terrorist flies to America, goes to airport and takes a gun (or knife, whatever they used) with him, gets on the plain, and takes over the cock pit. At that point it was just a matter of knowing how to navigate a plane.

It all happened because of the shitty airport security that America had.

You think that's how they do it? Believe it or not, Al Qaeda is a real organization with structure and order and not just a bunch of Muslim lunatics and they had probably been planning the entire thing for months.

And btw, you really think it was that easy to get a weapon on board and hijack a plane even before you implemented new security measures? lol

[Gloomy Mushroom]

All i need to see.



How are you getting that? I never said they didn't attack "for no reason". I just said one version of events was way less retarded than the other. Namely, Bin Laden has supporters worldwide, some of those supporters had contact with him in Pakistan, and a few of them let him when his enemies got too close. How is that 'black and white hero 'murika vs psycho brown man' fantasy?



Explain why is the Bin Laden stuff true and the Lady Gag stuff bullshit one the exact same site.

Strike 3. Go.

How the hell did you get off saying the R word and not be warned?

STRIKE FOUR. Lpa rule broken.

[Todd]

And btw, you really think it was that easy to get a weapon on board and hijack a plane even before you implemented new security measures? lol

Before 9/11, small knives were allowed on planes, which is what 9/11 hijackers used. They didn't bring anything on the plane that they weren't allowed to.


How the hell did you get off saying the R word and not be warned?

STRIKE FOUR. Lpa rule broken.

Because we don't read every single post and can always use everyone's help by reporting posts like this.

[CallofReach141]

Structural damage caused by debris, right?

Maybe, but it fell at the speed of freefall, goes against the laws of physics. While debris might make a building fall, the damage pattern would be irregular. Like one part of the building might topple over but the structural integrity will still remain. The building just seemed to fall in on its own footprint straight to the ground, an occurrence which is consistent with controlled demolitions. The initial investigation allowed for all possibilities to be looked at and investigated, except controlled demolition, if the truth doesn't fear investigation, why rule it out at such a primitive stage in the investigation? Not to mention the 9/11 Commission ditched the investigation abruptly and have refused to respond to any inquiries. A recent poll showed 66% of the American public want the 9/11 case re-opened.

While I believe Bin Laden was the perpetrator, it seems like he got some inside help.

[Timothy]

Maybe, but it fell at the speed of freefall, goes against the laws of physics. While debris might make a building fall, the damage pattern would be irregular. Like one part of the building might topple over but the structural integrity will still remain. The building just seemed to fall in on its own footprint straight to the ground, an occurrence which is consistent with controlled demolitions. The initial investigation allowed for all possibilities to be looked at and investigated, except controlled demolition, if the truth doesn't fear investigation, why rule it out at such a primitive stage in the investigation? Not to mention the 9/11 Commission ditched the investigation abruptly and have refused to respond to any inquiries. A recent poll showed 66% of the American public want the 9/11 case re-opened.

While I believe Bin Laden was the perpetrator, it seems like he got some inside help.

There's a lot of interesting phenomena and coincidences, however that's really all they are: interesting. I've seen scientists debunk and endorse quite a few of the theories surrounding 9/11. It would be silly to draw any extraordinary conclusions from that.

I don't remember the context, but trav brought up money. To be honest, that's a factor on both sides of the argument. Have a lot of people made money off of war? No question. There are a lot of other people, though, making money off of perpetuating these conspiracy theories. Does that mean every conspiracy theorist is insincere? Absolutely not. But that also doesn't mean every action the U.S. government/military takes is, at least initially, without some merit. People are more willing to believe in whatever fits into their world narrative, and for some people, Evil America is the only thing that fits their narrative.

[Blackee Dammet]

Believe it or not, Al Qaeda is a real organization with structure and order and not just a bunch of Muslim lunatics and they had probably been planning the entire thing for months.

Aaaaaaaaaaand... that's supposed to be an argument against them doing it on their own?


How the hell did you get off saying the R word and not be warned?

STRIKE FOUR. Lpa rule broken.

http://hellgateguru.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/tf2-heavy1.jpg

Althought I think LPAs "R Word" policy should be more lax. I think I should be allow to say things and ideas are 'R Word'.

[Dean]

As far as I know none of the buildings went into free fall, maybe briefly at the most. WTC 7 wasn't far at all from the main towers and it's easy to find footage/photographs of it taking the full force of debris from them, and the damage that did. That and all the factors brought about by it made it collapse, in a way that made perfect sense for the sort of building it was.

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/9/11_conspiracy_theories
http://www.debunking911.com/pull.htm here we go. There's just two of the pages I have on it.

[CallofReach141]

There are a lot of other people, though, making money off of perpetuating these conspiracy theories.

Alex Jones, for example.

[Gloomy Mushroom]

Aaaaaaaaaaand... that's supposed to be an argument against them doing it on their own?



http://hellgateguru.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/tf2-heavy1.jpg

Althought I think LPAs "R Word" policy should be more lax. I think I should be allow to say things and ideas are 'R Word'.

Well some people might find it offensive so that's why it was set in place, and saying something is physically or mentally disabled doesn't make sense, especially the way it was put. And also, something is like that, proves your immaturity level when it comes to debating topics.

I think what EM is trying to say, although I do agree with him, is that AQ is actually more sophisticated than the American government will actually be, not some bunch of hotshot extreme Muslims as they are generally seen as. As to them having American involvement, I wouldn't put it past the government to be honest. Call it conspiracy I call it possibility, mainly because the Bush government just reeked from conspiracies from the moment he was "elected".

[deftonesfan867]

This thread is still going??

Why?

[travz21]

Althought I think LPAs "R Word" policy should be more lax. I think I should be allow to say things and ideas are 'R Word'.

Agreed. They let us talk about all the various points that have been brought up in this thread, some of which could very well offend people (who cares), but they don't let us say certain words because it might offend people? Are people actually offended when people use "offensive" words out of context from their literal definition?

[Derek The Infamous]

Sorry, regardless of your viewpoint on whether or not the word "retarded" can be taken in different contexts, the rule isn't going to change. It's been there since 2002 and wont be going anywhere anytime soon. Why? Because as Castiel mentioned prior, it can easily offend people who know people who are mentally handicapped, and there is simply no need to use it. There are so many words you can use in the place of "retarded" that campaigning for the rule to be more lax, just because you can't figure out a different word to use in it's place, makes no sense. You wouldn't call a mentally handicapped ("retarded") person stupid to their face so why use "retarded" as an adjective to mean something stupid?

Please take a look at this website: http://www.r-word.org/

The word retarded is hurtful to people who are mentally handicapped (even if you don't mean to demean people who are) and therefore the rule will stand. I suggest you find a different word to use.

[CallofReach141]

Uhhm, this thread is kinda going off topic. :huh:

[travz21]

Sorry, regardless of your viewpoint on whether or not the word "retarded" can be taken in different contexts, the rule isn't going to change. It's been there since 2002 and wont be going anywhere anytime soon. Why? Because as Castiel mentioned prior, it can easily offend people who know people who are mentally handicapped, and there is simply no need to use it. There are so many words you can use in the place of "retarded" that campaigning for the rule to be more lax, just because you can't figure out a different word to use in it's place, makes no sense. You wouldn't call a mentally handicapped ("retarded") person stupid to their face so why use "retarded" as an adjective to mean something stupid?

Please take a look at this website: http://www.r-word.org/

The word retarded is hurtful to people who are mentally handicapped (even if you don't mean to demean people who are) and therefore the rule will stand. I suggest you find a different word to use.

Claiming 9/11 was an inside job could also be hurtful to people. Or that the US was just using Al Qaeda as an excuse to get troops over there could be hurtful to people who've had loved ones killed overseas. If everyone here is mature enough to know that the people bringing up these different viewpoints aren't trying to directly offend anyone with those views, why can't we all be mature enough to realize people who talk using slang aren't trying to directly offend anyone? It's just how the English language is spoken by the majority of people under 30.


As an example, your signature says "I'll punch a bitch". I have close friends who have been abused by their boyfriends and put in the hospital. I'm not going to hold it against you because, for one, you shouldn't have to know about other people and if you might offend them for you to speak or write what you want. Secondly, I know it's not directed at anyone who's been affected by abuse. You're not using it in an offensive manner. And lastly, I just don't care because I don't get emotional about things like that, but I could see where some people might think it's very distasteful. So, "retarded" or "gay" used in slang is against the rules, but hitting a few bitches here and there is ok? How about we all grow up and stop being so whiny about what people say?

[Jeff]

Or we could just all follow the rules. :shrug:

[Blackee Dammet]

Claiming 9/11 was an inside job could also be hurtful to people. Or that the US was just using Al Qaeda as an excuse to get troops over there could be hurtful to people who've had loved ones killed overseas. If everyone here is mature enough to know that the people bringing up these different viewpoints aren't trying to directly offend anyone with those views, why can't we all be mature enough to realize people who talk using slang aren't trying to directly offend anyone? It's just how the English language is spoken by the majority of people under 30.


As an example, your signature says "I'll punch a bitch". I have close friends who have been abused by their boyfriends and put in the hospital. I'm not going to hold it against you because, for one, you shouldn't have to know about other people and if you might offend them for you to speak or write what you want. Secondly, I know it's not directed at anyone who's been affected by abuse. You're not using it in an offensive manner. And lastly, I just don't care because I don't get emotional about things like that, but I could see where some people might think it's very distasteful. So, "retarded" or "gay" used in slang is against the rules, but hitting a few bitches here and there is ok? How about we all grow up and stop being so whiny about what people say?

Hahaha. Yes. This.

[Derek The Infamous]

The item in my signature is left over from when I had an image of Nicolas Cage in a bear suit punching someone in the face. It was in reference to that scene and never removed when I changed my signature. It has now been removed. However; what I find amazing is that you just claimed this isn't a big issue to you, yet in the same thread you and Blackee have made it a mission to completely derail the topic at hand in the interests of trying to prove a point. We're simply not going to allow "gay" or "retarded" in slang form any time soon, and it's a moot point trying to argue it. You saw the rules when you signed up, and you agreed to them as part of posting here. There are many people who follow the rules without any difficulty, and if you're going to claim we need to "grow up" why don't you "grow up" and accept you broke a rule and move on? You didn't get an infraction for it, and we let you off with just a warning which gives you no points. We gave you a break and yet you're chastising us for it? Get over it and get back on topic please.

Furthermore, as much as I disagree with some of the offending viewpoints you've mentioned, they are part of having a debate. People are going to sometimes have views that offend you, and you're going to have to accept their opinions are different as much as you may hate them. If you can't handle that you shouldn't be in serious chat. However; it still doesn't give you a free reign to call things retarded or gay just because "everyone under 30 speaks that way". Shit, if someone jumped in front of a moving car cause it was fun, does that make it a good idea? I thought we got rid of the "I do it because they do it" excuse in elementary school.

[Gloomy Mushroom]

Or we could just all follow the rules. :shrug:

I guess some people feel the need to break rules to prove a point. Which is pointless. Because you can prove a point without breaking rules.

[Derek The Infamous]

I guess some people feel the need to break rules to prove a point. Which is pointless. Because you can prove a point without breaking rules.

This.

[deftonesfan867]

/facepalm.

From Osama being dead to 9/11 being a conspiracy to an argument about the use of the word r--ard.

Too much time on some peoples hands?

[Todd]

Look, we give you the freedom to say just about any word you want. George Carlin's 7 dirty words - shit, piss, fuck, cunt, cocksucker, motherfucker and tits. None of them are off limits. Use them all you want, we don't care. We simply ask that you don't use a small handful of words that offend a group of people. Is it really hard to use a word other than "retarded" when you want to describe something that's stupid? How about you just use "stupid", is that so bad? Throw a fuck in there, call it "fucking stupid" instead, we don't care. We have had this rule in place for the 9 years we've been a site and no one has had a problem with it except you. We must be doing something right. The rule regarding the use of "retarded" is not changing, and that's the end of discussion.

Now let's drop this, drop the 9/11 conspiracy bullshit, and get back on topic.

[Jen]

I have something to say, and then I'm going to move on from this, because it has driven the thread off topic.

I am a mom of two, and my oldest child is considered "special needs". As a result, she often comes home from school in tears because of little brats that call her all sorts of names, the R-word among them. Whether or not you use those words in a derogatory manner, they are going to offend someone, somehow. I might be beating a dead horse with this, but until you live in the shoes of a person that is actually retarded or has some other disability, or are the parent of a child that is, you will never know fully how upsetting it may be. Please try to respect that and don't make light of it by using those words so casually.

[deftonesfan867]

I have something to say, and then I'm going to move on from this, because it has driven the thread off topic.

I am a mom of two, and my oldest child is considered "special needs". As a result, she often comes home from school in tears because of little brats that call her all sorts of names, the R-word among them. Whether or not you use those words in a derogatory manner, they are going to offend someone, somehow. I might be beating a dead horse with this, but until you live in the shoes of a person that is actually retarded or has some other disability, or are the parent of a child that is, you will never know fully how upsetting it may be. Please try to respect that and don't make light of it by using those words so casually.

I don't have any kids, but I can respect this.

[Benjamin]

This whole thread is just ridiculous (See what I did there?)

And more on topic, I can't believe there are people on these forums that legitimately even consider 9/11 a conspiracy. I usually think of the IQ level on these forums to be above average. I must say, I'm shocked.

[El Muerto]

This whole thread is just ridiculous (See what I did there?)

And more on topic, I can't believe there are people on these forums that legitimately even consider 9/11 a conspiracy. I usually think of the IQ level on these forums to be above average. I must say, I'm shocked.

So you think you're IQ is higher than mine because I think something is fishy about 9/11? You wish.

[Benjamin]

So you think you're IQ is higher than mine because I think something is fishy about 9/11? You wish.

Not exactly.

More like I know that a lot of us including yourself are smart people. I just wouldn't expect this bullshit in this place.

Wasn't trying to say I was smarter than you in general.

[Derek The Infamous]

So you think you're IQ is higher than mine because I think something is fishy about 9/11? You wish.



Do I think you have a serious attitude problem for trying to pick a fight with a member after Todd and myself asked this shit to stop? Yes.

Sure Dumblediore's post couldve been worded better to avoid it coming off as an attack against you, but it doesn't give you the right to be so aggressive in this thread and an instigator which you have been several times. Please stop picking fights and learn to debate without being antagonistic. Its gone too far.

[Louis]

I'm just going to go ahead and say that the next person who brings this up here is going to get an infraction, and we'll close the thread if we have to. As everyone else has said, rules are rules. You signed up for this place under the conditions of those regulations, so if you're going to bitch about those now, you shouldn't have signed up in the first place.

We're done. Move on.

[deftonesfan867]

Some of your egos need to be brought down a few notches.

Seriously.

[Derek The Infamous]

Again, enough. If the next post isn't on topic, this thread is going to be closed and will NOT be re-opened. I suggest people start talking respectfully, start debating respectfully, stop making jabs at eachother and get on topic by the next post or this thread is a goner.

[Jeff]

So, how about that Osama guy and how he died?

[deftonesfan867]

My apologies.

Here's my gift to this thread in the form of NBA related lulz.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v59/seth78/3peat.png

[Gloomy Mushroom]

How is it they release photos of Hussein's death and not of Bin Laden's? That's the thing I don't get. And all these videos that have been released with him watching himself on tv, muting the sound, because its apparently meant to deter supporters from hearing his final moments, how is it deterring? I would find myself angry if I was a supporter.



My apologies.

Here's my gift to this thread in the form of NBA related lulz.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v59/seth78/3peat.png

I don't get it. :huh:

And as for concerning conspiracies, no disrespect to either side of this war, but the American government is just reeking of conspiracies even since before Bush's election was rigged (I read way too much Michael Moore) so 9/11 being a conspiracy? I would never doubt that for a second. The American government's version of conspiracies involve the loss of innocent life tragically, they even did it in Vietnam, so even if it was proven that there was an insider job on this scale, I sincerely would not be surprised. And I am with EM 100% of the way. You don't have to have a low IQ to figure out that the American government has done it in the past, what was stopping them from doing it again?

And if anyone calls me a cold heartless bitch for thinking that, I guess some people need to listen to Aretha Franklin more. Although there is no direct proof that the government was involved, and I bloody hope for the love of the victim's families that they weren't, but the American government doesn't exactly have the best rap sheet.

[Jeff]

How is it they release photos of Hussein's death and not of Bin Laden's? That's the thing I don't get. And all these videos that have been released with him watching himself on tv, muting the sound, because its apparently meant to deter supporters from hearing his final moments, how is it deterring? I would find myself angry if I was a supporter.



http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2011-05-04/osama-bin-laden-dead-photos-why-obama-wont-release-them/?cid=bsa:moreauthor2#

Plus, it was the Iraqi gov't that released the Hussein photos, not the US.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Execution_of_Saddam_Hussein

[Todd]

How is it they release photos of Hussein's death and not of Bin Laden's? That's the thing I don't get. And all these videos that have been released with him watching himself on tv, muting the sound, because its apparently meant to deter supporters from hearing his final moments, how is it deterring? I would find myself angry if I was a supporter.


Simple. Obama uses his brain. Bush didn't.

[Gloomy Mushroom]

http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2011-05-04/osama-bin-laden-dead-photos-why-obama-wont-release-them/?cid=bsa:moreauthor2#

Plus, it was the Iraqi gov't that released the Hussein photos, not the US.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Execution_of_Saddam_Hussein

For once the US is not glorifying in its own mess. But mind you, Hussein and Bin Laden were two different people.



Simple. Obama uses his brain. Bush didn't.

Now that's something I haven't heard in a while, Obama using his brain (kudos to him as well).

[Jeff]

For once the US is not glorifying in its own mess.


Simple. Obama uses his brain. Bush didn't.


As much as I disagree with Obama, Todd has a point.

[deftonesfan867]

Sarah the LA Lakers we're said to get their third championship in a row this year, but the Dallas Mavericks prevented that from happening.

Osama bet his life that LA would get all the ways to the finals this year and win the championship.

The results speak for themselves.

:lol:

[Dean]

If he was shot in the head it's probably not that likely you'd have an easy time telling it was him just based on a picture anyway. For all the good it'd do you might as well just look up pictures of any old headshot victim.

[Benjamin]

There are more reasons not to release the pictures than to release them.

Another great call by Obama.

[CallofReach141]

How is it they release photos of Hussein's death and not of Bin Laden's? That's the thing I don't get. And all these videos that have been released with him watching himself on tv, muting the sound, because its apparently meant to deter supporters from hearing his final moments, how is it deterring? I would find myself angry if I was a supporter.




I don't get it. :huh:

And as for concerning conspiracies, no disrespect to either side of this war, but the American government is just reeking of conspiracies even since before Bush's election was rigged (I read way too much Michael Moore) so 9/11 being a conspiracy? I would never doubt that for a second. The American government's version of conspiracies involve the loss of innocent life tragically, they even did it in Vietnam, so even if it was proven that there was an insider job on this scale, I sincerely would not be surprised. And I am with EM 100% of the way. You don't have to have a low IQ to figure out that the American government has done it in the past, what was stopping them from doing it again?

And if anyone calls me a cold heartless bitch for thinking that, I guess some people need to listen to Aretha Franklin more. Although there is no direct proof that the government was involved, and I bloody hope for the love of the victim's families that they weren't, but the American government doesn't exactly have the best rap sheet.

This.

[travz21]

Hard to release a pic of him when he's either not dead or he's been dead for a long, long time.

[Harlz]

Hard to release a pic of him when he's either not dead or he's been dead for a long, long time.

This.
Inclined to think he's been dead a long time myself.

[deftonesfan867]

http://www.zgeek.com/forum/gallery/files/1/0/8/tin_foil_hat.jpg

[Timothy]

Some journalists have seen the photos. Congressmen, too.

[Dean]

Some journalists have seen the photos. Congressmen, too.
That's just what they want you to think!

[Gloomy Mushroom]

http://www.zgeek.com/forum/gallery/files/1/0/8/tin_foil_hat.jpg

I firmly request for you to stop posting these pictures and put some contribution to the thread.

[Benjamin]

So if he's been dead for a long time, how come Bush didn't announce it? And why would Bush resort to murdering thousands of civilians and taking down one of America's most known landmarks just to go to the Middle East? Even if he did try to really push the public opinion to go to war, couldn't he have come up with something that wouldn't embarrass his administration (or at least not nearly as much)?

It was a risky mission for Al Queada, but I firmly believe that they were able to act alone. And Obama had a perfectly legitimate reason not to release the photo since it could be used as persuasive propaganda. There's also the "it makes America look bad" part of it too. Although that's not nearly as good of a reason, it was probably a big factor in that decision.

If you ask me, president Bush put the America's hate for politicians in general at an all time low. It seems no matter what they do (Liberals and Conservatives), they get questioned. If America's going to prosper again, we have to stop hating each other. Obama was fucking born in the United States and he killed Osama Bin Laden on May 1st. Deal with it.

[El Muerto]

Btw, what happened to "innocent until proven guilty"? Didn't he have a right to stand a fair trial?

[Benjamin]

Btw, what happened to "innocent until proven guilty"? Didn't he have a right to stand a fair trial?

He sure didn't help himself by getting on a camera and saying he was behind everything and that he wanted to attack western nations more in the future.

[El Muerto]

Doesn't matter. If I go to police now and admit I committed a murder, they're not just gonna put me to electric chair. Law needs to be the same for everybody, whether you're an ordinary citizen or a leader of an extremist group. This could set a serious precedent that would allow governments to kill their political and other enemies by declaring them terrorists and creating the appropriate image of them in the media.

[Gloomy Mushroom]

Btw, what happened to "innocent until proven guilty"? Didn't he have a right to stand a fair trial?

Did they actually prove that AQ was behind all of the attacks? I mean, it's one thing to say it and probably lie about it, just for sheer gloating sakes, but it's another to prove that AQ was held accountable for everything the US has accused them of?

[deftonesfan867]

In the same way you can voice your own theories about what happened I can post pics.

No reason to get upset just because I don't agree with you like I usually do.

The dude is dead. Theres no cover up or some conspiracy going on.

As for a fair trial, how is he entitled to one?

[ThaHandyman]

Doesn't matter. If I go to police now and admit I committed a murder, they're not just gonna put me to electric chair. Law needs to be the same for everybody, whether you're an ordinary citizen or a leader of an extremist group. This could set a serious precedent that would allow governments to kill their political and other enemies by declaring them terrorists and creating the appropriate image of them in the media.

Lolz at the PCness here. Dude went on video and said everything he did, Obama said lets not be pussies and ordered the hit. Theres no reason for stalling with that business, he was a terrorist and needed to be put out.

[CallofReach141]

Did they actually prove that AQ was behind all of the attacks? I mean, it's one thing to say it and probably lie about it, just for sheer gloating sakes, but it's another to prove that AQ was held accountable for everything the US has accused them of?
This.

[deftonesfan867]

Did they actually prove that AQ was behind all of the attacks? I mean, it's one thing to say it and probably lie about it, just for sheer gloating sakes, but it's another to prove that AQ was held accountable for everything the US has accused them of?

IF they/he didn't do it and yet they said they did well then they signed their own death warrant.

[Dean]

Did they actually prove that AQ was behind all of the attacks? I mean, it's one thing to say it and probably lie about it, just for sheer gloating sakes, but it's another to prove that AQ was held accountable for everything the US has accused them of?
How about you prove they didn't instead of just being suspicious for the sake of being suspicious. You're better than that.

[deftonesfan867]

How about you prove they didn't instead of just being suspicious for the sake of being suspicious. You're better than that.

Agreed.

[CallofReach141]

I heard of a then-CIA asset called Tim Osman. Hell, the media doesn't even talk about him.

[deftonesfan867]

The CIA didn't supply anything directly to Tim Osman AKA Osama Bin Laden.

Also what does that prove?

That's right, nothing.

[CallofReach141]

The CIA didn't supply anything directly to Tim Osman AKA Osama Bin Laden.

Also what does that prove?

That's right, nothing.

They spent over $6,000,000,000 training the Mujahideen and building training bases all over Afghanistan for them. They practically gave OBL everything he needed to become #1 terrorist in the world, knowingly. Now they come and claim world police.

Of course, terrorism is right when it's done to someone else.

[Gloomy Mushroom]

In the same way you can voice your own theories about what happened I can post pics.

No reason to get upset just because I don't agree with you like I usually do.

The dude is dead. Theres no cover up or some conspiracy going on.

As for a fair trial, how is he entitled to one?

You just didn't say or post anything worthy of a constructive argument for that page and the page before that. And as for a trial, well, the Americans always rant on about how fair and just their judging system is, I don't see why he was an exception to their justice system if they were so dead keen on bringing "the terror victims to ease" if they are going to put him to the same fate they had. They were victims of a terrible crime, but seriously, eye for an eye? What does that leave one with, no eyes? Blind as a fucking bat and which they've proven to be nothing.

How about you prove they didn't instead of just being suspicious for the sake of being suspicious. You're better than that.

It's only speculation. Because a number of "AQ attacks" the Americans claimed they were, weren't in the long run when other groups claimed responsibility for them leaving the US red faced.

The CIA didn't supply anything directly to Tim Osman AKA Osama Bin Laden.

Also what does that prove?

That's right, nothing.

But consider that the CIA mislead the public about a lot of things, until someone or something like the Wikileaks project finally delivers the truth.

[El Muerto]

As for a fair trial, how is he entitled to one?

Ask any lawyer, just because you are personally affected by a crime, it doesn't mean somebody doesn't have a right to trial. Otherwise we'd all be killing each other for blood revenge.

And bear in mind that people have committed much more bigger and more serious crimes and still had to be proven guilty.


Lolz at the PCness here. Dude went on video and said everything he did, Obama said lets not be pussies and ordered the hit. Theres no reason for stalling with that business, he was a terrorist and needed to be put out.

That's twisted logic. And it means that Osama's sons could just go and kill Obama because he admitted on TV that he ordered the hit of their father. Terrorism is a matter of viewpoint, in their eyes Obama is a terrorist.


There is no universally agreed, legally binding, criminal law definition of terrorism.


The unofficial or unauthorized use of violence and intimidation in the pursuit of political aims.

Not authorized by the UN Security Council still equals illegal. And that's not the first time. That's one of the reasons UN was established in the first place, to not allow one country to act all on its own, because we all know how that can turn out.

[Harlz]

Of course, terrorism is right when it's done to someone else.

Freedom and truth and a fair trial for all!
As long as you're American.

[Timothy]

You just didn't say or post anything worthy of a constructive argument for that page and the page before that. And as for a trial, well, the Americans always rant on about how fair and just their judging system is, I don't see why he was an exception to their justice system if they were so dead keen on bringing "the terror victims to ease" if they are going to put him to the same fate they had. They were victims of a terrible crime, but seriously, eye for an eye? What does that leave one with, no eyes? Blind as a fucking bat and which they've proven to be nothing.

Really? Where do you hear that? On the contrary, I think you'll find a lot of Americans find our justice system completely fucked.

[Blackee Dammet]

They spent over $6,000,000,000 training the Mujahideen and building training bases all over Afghanistan for them. They practically gave OBL everything he needed to become #1 terrorist in the world, knowingly. Now they come and claim world police.

Of course, terrorism is right when it's done to someone else.

I like people that don't know who Ahmad Shah Massoud is.

[CallofReach141]

I like people that don't know who Ahmad Shah Massoud is.

The guy who was assassinated in a suicide bombing 2 days before 9/11 right???

[Blackee Dammet]

And what else.

[Derek The Infamous]

And what else.
For the lazy people who don't want to answer the above: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmad_Shah_Massoud

You're welcome.

Excerpt:



Warning the world (September 11, 2001)

In spring 2001, Ahmad Shah Massoud addressed the European Parliament in Brussels stating that behind the situation in Afghanistan there was the regime in Pakistan.[55] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmad_Shah_Massoud#cite_note-EU_Parliament-54) He also stated his conviction that without the support of Pakistan, Osama Bin Laden and Saudi Arabia the Taliban would not be able to sustain their military campaign for up to a year, also because the Afghan population was ready to rise against them.[55] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmad_Shah_Massoud#cite_note-EU_Parliament-54) Addressing the United States specifically he issued the warning that should the U.S. not work for peace in Afghanistan and put pressure on Pakistan to cease their support to the Taliban, the problems of Afghanistan would soon become the problems of the U.S. and the world.[55] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmad_Shah_Massoud#cite_note-EU_Parliament-54)[58] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmad_Shah_Massoud#cite_note-gwu.edu-57)
Declassified Defense Intelligence Agency documents from November 2001 show that Massoud had gained "limited knowledge... regarding the intentions of [al-Qaeda] to perform a terrorist act against the US on a scale larger than the 1998 bombing of the US Embassies in Kenya and Tanzania."[58] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmad_Shah_Massoud#cite_note-gwu.edu-57) They also point out that he warned about such attacks.[58] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmad_Shah_Massoud#cite_note-gwu.edu-57)
In 2002, French singer-songwriter and author Damien Saez (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damien_Saez) wrote a song about 9/11 entitled "Massoud". He was also featured in the ABC Television (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ABC_Television) mini-series The Path to 9/11 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Path_to_9/11), which aired commercial-free in the USA in 2006, on the fifth anniversary of the 9/11 attacks. The mini-series depicts Massoud warning U.S. intelligence agents of the coming U.S. attack by al-Qaeda (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Qaeda)[78] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmad_Shah_Massoud#cite_note-77) and Massoud's September 9, 2001 assassination.[79] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmad_Shah_Massoud#cite_note-78)

[CallofReach141]

Thanks for consulting the Oracle [Wikipedia] ;) . I heard of a concept drafted by the top US Govt brass in the 1990's called the "Project for The New American Century", it described the steps necessary to make the US the dominant superpower in the world. They practically stated that the process would be long and tedious without a catalytic event such as a "New Pearl Harbor". I would like someone to run it through a search engine.

[Dean]

Thanks for consulting the Oracle [Wikipedia] ;) . I heard of a concept drafted by the top US Govt brass in the 1990's called the "Project for The New American Century", it described the steps necessary to make the US the dominant superpower in the world. They practically stated that the process would be long and tedious without a catalytic event such as a "New Pearl Harbor". I would like someone to run it through a search engine.
So? You can argue that they took advantage of it politically but it doesn't really do anything to prove a conspiracy theory.

And personally I'll take sourced info from Wikipedia over someone who just keeps making unsubstantiated claims over and over. ;)

[Benjamin]

Read this report in its entirety. http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military/news/1227842
Then read it again. Then come back and tell be that 9/11 may have been a conspiracy

[Blackee Dammet]

I sure would like someone to actually read the Massoud article and then come back trying to argue the 'America gave Osama money in the 80's' shit.

Frankly, I'm pretty sure a lot of you think the Soviet invasion was "Russia vs. The Taliban".

[deftonesfan867]

So? You can argue that they took advantage of it politically but it doesn't really do anything to prove a conspiracy theory.

And personally I'll take sourced info from Wikipedia over someone who just keeps making unsubstantiated claims over and over. ;)

The latter makes it much easier for them.

[Gloomy Mushroom]

I sure would like someone to actually read the Massoud article and then come back trying to argue the 'America gave Osama money in the 80's' shit.

Frankly, I'm pretty sure a lot of you think the Soviet invasion was "Russia vs. The Taliban".

No it's more like 'America gave the Vietcong money and supplied military weapons in the 70s' shit. Which is completely non-article like but having said that to what CallofReach said, it's sounding more and more like Vietnam.

And quite frankly, I think you're playing a bad card when you bring the Soviet invasion into the context.

[El Muerto]

Read this report in its entirety. http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military/news/1227842
Then read it again. Then come back and tell be that 9/11 may have been a conspiracy

Nobody here is questioning whether the attacks really happened the way they did, and that's pretty much what that report is about.

[Luke]

I don't like using the term 'conspiracy theory' when these issues are raised, but I urge everyone to keep an open mind. It's foolish to think the authorities don't keep things from the general public even if it is for what their idea of the greater good is.

I tend to agree with alot the scepticism surrounding 9/11, and this whole Bin Laden death suddenly coming out of the blue with no one seemingly able to keep their stories straight only cries out that something's not as it seems. Either way, it's imperitive in cases like these to keep an open mind.

[Dean]

I don't like using the term 'conspiracy theory' when these issues are raised, but I urge everyone to keep an open mind. It's foolish to think the authorities don't keep things from the general public even if it is for what their idea of the greater good is.

I tend to agree with alot the scepticism surrounding 9/11, and this whole Bin Laden death suddenly coming out of the blue with no one seemingly able to keep their stories straight only cries out that something's not as it seems. Either way, it's imperitive in cases like these to keep an open mind.
Keeping an open mind is completely different to believing in something that defies all logic. As soon as I see a good reason I'll take it into account.

[Derek The Infamous]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/05/13/bin-laden-kill-plan_n_861480.html

This is a very good article that describes how Obama was basically acting on a still classified covert order from over 9 years ago that Bush put into place that authorized the CIA to use all methods at their disposal to wipe out Al-Queda, explicitly including deadly force.

Presidential covert orders never expire unless the following presidents sign a new order suspending or revoking them. Seeing as Obama did neither, he was working on the legal authority of what Bush had authorized 9-10 years ago. And for the record, it wasn't even him who coordinated the attack. It was the CIA. He pretty much just authorized the mission to happen and the let the CIA handle it.

Oh and there's also this:


But when it came time to attack the Abbottabad compound, Obama rejected an option for using drones, fearing civilian casualties and that proof of bin Laden's demise would never be found in the wreckage. (For similar reasons, the president also rejected an option which would have sent B-2 "Stealth" bombers to destroy bin Laden's lair.)

Criticize Obama all you want for not giving Osama a "fair trial", but I doubt Bush would've given a fuck about civilian casualties, or given Osama a burial at sea. Obama has more couth in his pinky fingers then Bush had in his entire body.

[Blackee Dammet]

No it's more like 'America gave the Vietcong money and supplied military weapons in the 70s' shit.

The hell are you talking about? it would help if you followed up these kind of posts with anything other than "No, you don't know what you're talking about", I can't tell if you're just making a terrible analogy or you seriously think that's how Vietnam happened.

[Derek The Infamous]

The hell are you talking about? it would help if you followed up these kind of posts with anything other than "No, you don't know what you're talking about", I can't tell if you're just making a terrible analogy or you seriously think that's how Vietnam happened.
Yeah, for once I'm going to have to side here with Blackee. That is most definitely NOT how Vietnam happened, and it's disrespectful to the people who served in that war. The media painted them as "baby-killers" etc, when in reality a lot of the soldiers who served in that war were honorable and committed no such atrocities. The media massacred the people who served in that war when they came back home, destroyed their lives and even today (as shown by your horribly incorrect statement) those who served are still not given total respect.

Vietnam was a mistake of a war, but a lot of the information spread around about it is untrue.

[Timothy]

Keeping an open mind is completely different to believing in something that defies all logic. As soon as I see a good reason I'll take it into account.

Exactly. It's not that I'm unwilling to believe that Osama Bin Laden is alive or that 9/11 was an inside job, I just haven't seen any truly compelling evidence to support either of those claims. So, yes, people absolutely should be skeptical of everything their government tells them, but they should apply the same skepticism to every other source.


EDIT: The parallels between the Vietnam War and America's involvement in the middle east are uncanny, but I'll be damned if I know what the hell she's talking about or how it applies to the current discussion.

[CallofReach141]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/05/13/bin-laden-kill-plan_n_861480.html
Criticize Obama all you want for not giving Osama a "fair trial", but I doubt Bush would've given a fuck about civilian casualties, or given Osama a burial at sea. Obama has more couth in his pinky fingers then Bush had in his entire body.

I'll definitely agree with that statement.



And personally I'll take sourced info from Wikipedia over someone who just keeps making unsubstantiated claims over and over. ;)

Everything I've said is based on declassified US Govt documents, I haven't made any claims whatsoever apart from my belief that 9/11 was no one man show.


Keeping an open mind is completely different to believing in something that defies all logic. As soon as I see a good reason I'll take it into account.

It does not defy logic for WTC 7 to have been pulled, for me at least. This just doesn't make sense (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LD06SAf0p9A).


But they should apply the same skepticism to every other source.

Agree, that's what I thought while watching Alex Jones and some other frauds.

[Dean]

Everything I've said is based on declassified US Govt documents, I haven't made any claims whatsoever apart from my belief that 9/11 was no one man show.
That's another one until you show proof that that's where it's all coming from.


It does not defy logic for WTC 7 to have been pulled, for me at least. This just doesn't make sense (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LD06SAf0p9A).
I gave you two pages about how it does... one was a whole site in fact. I can give you more if you like.

[El Muerto]

I watched a couple episodes of that show on Discovery where they take buildings down, and sometimes it takes them 4-5 days to figure out how to make a building just go down like that and not fall to one side. And they're also professionals who have been doing that for their entire lives.

[CallofReach141]

I watched a couple episodes of that show on discovery where they take buildings down, and sometimes it takes them 4-5 days to figure out how to make a building just go down like that and not fall to one side. And they're also professionals who have been doing that for their entire lives.

Exactly, I read an interview with a former US Navy Demolitions expert, he's been blowing up buildings for a long time and firmly believed WTC 7 was a controlled demolition. He said that a building cannot fall down at the rate of gravity unless all the support underneath has been removed. Now I wonder what would cause all the support to cave in so abruptly.

[Todd]

Guys, this thread is not about 9/11 conspiracy theories. We've already asked several times to get back on topic. If you want to discuss the 9/11 crap, please make a new thread.

[CallofReach141]

Guys, this thread is not about 9/11 conspiracy theories. We've already asked several times to get back on topic. If you want to discuss the 9/11 crap, please make a new thread.

Wilco.

[Luke]

Keeping an open mind is completely different to believing in something that defies all logic. As soon as I see a good reason I'll take it into account.

Yeah, no shit.

All I'm saying is that people shouldn't be spoonfed information. You need to take the news and these 'official' reports with a pinch of salt.

[Dean]

Yeah, no shit.

All I'm saying is that people shouldn't be spoonfed information. You need to take the news and these 'official' reports with a pinch of salt.
Haha RBAY. It's just that there's a difference between that and taking into account stupid illogical theories put forward by whackjobs which isn't really any better, and you seemed to be implying that anyone who doesn't do that isn't open minded.

[Benjamin]

I watched a couple episodes of that show on Discovery where they take buildings down, and sometimes it takes them 4-5 days to figure out how to make a building just go down like that and not fall to one side. And they're also professionals who have been doing that for their entire lives.

You just contradicted yourself since you said a page back that you weren't questioning how the events in 9/11 went down.

I completely agree with Derek, Dean, and Raymond. There hasn't been any good logic to refute the common knowledge of what happened on 9/11.

[Gloomy Mushroom]

Exactly. It's not that I'm unwilling to believe that Osama Bin Laden is alive or that 9/11 was an inside job, I just haven't seen any truly compelling evidence to support either of those claims. So, yes, people absolutely should be skeptical of everything their government tells them, but they should apply the same skepticism to every other source.


EDIT: The parallels between the Vietnam War and America's involvement in the middle east are uncanny, but I'll be damned if I know what the hell she's talking about or how it applies to the current discussion.

I just remember when the war was first announced that it was highly compared to Vietnam and the American involvement that was originally founded on false circumstances, much to what we were thinking back then when the war had been declared.

As for the structure of the WTC tower, I dunno, I don't think a building that would stand so tall for so long and so stable would just have something wrong with it structurally. Unless there were dodgy foundations for decades and nobody noticed, and it took a plane or two to bring it down. I don't know what to think on that theory to be honest.

[Todd]

The problem with the 9/11 conspiracies is that they say "well, this shouldn't have happened this way" as if we know what should happen when a 757 with fully loaded tanks of flammable jet fuel fly into a skyscraper at 500 miles an hour. It's not like that's a scenario the architects who designed the WTC planned for. It's a scenario so far out there that anything we knew before about the structure of the towers is irrelevant. Engineers can design a building to withstand earthquakes and other natural disasters, and also know how buildings will react if there is an earthquake. We have past experience with that. But what happened on 9/11 was just so out there, that for someone to say "No, this should've happened instead of that", well, frankly, I think they're full of shit because they don't know what's supposed to happen when a jumbo jet crashes into a building. That's not something that happens frequently around the world.

[Blackee Dammet]

To me, the funniest thing about 9/11 Troofers and people that rage at 'Murika in general pride themselves on being so much smarter than their opposition and, when pressed, can't seem to explain shit.

'Nam? Don't know shit about it, but I'll bring it up. Buildings falling down? Can't say I'm an expert, but your government is totally a group of baby raping demons and therefore it's more likely than not they blew them up.